Current Top Ten Most Exciting Fighters

by hazharrison Thu 12 Feb 2015, 4:32 pm

First topic message reminder :

1. Gennady Golovkin
2. Nicholas Walters
3. Vasyl Lomachenko
4. Sergey Kovalev
5. Roman Gonzalez
6. Lucas Matthysse
7. Ruslan Provodnikov
8. Naoya Inoue
9. Carl Froch
10. Deontay Wilder

Any glaring omissions? Pacquiao? Khan? Beterbiev? Andy Lee?

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 15 Feb 2015, 11:47 am

milkyboy wrote:Now, I make no claims to being a guru on technique, far from it, but I was of the impression that a check hook was thrown with the front foot As a pivot, so the back foot swings round with the momentum of the punch effectively creating a side step for the guy throwing it... Used almost exclusively against a guy rushing in.

To all intents and purposes a matador slipping to the side of the bull and sticking the knife in as it goes past.

How would lomachenko's sideways defensive moves leave him open to a punch thrown against guys lunging in?

As an aside, I never thought the floyd hatton punch was a textbook example... seemed more like a lead left hook, just timed as his opponent moved in, and he spun away afterwards, but like I said... I'm no expert .

You have this way of bursting bubbles milky...iit's both very interesting to realise what you knew along but couldn't be bothered to apply to the idiot posting and even more interesting to comfort your wife after you tell her that you've been buying her larger clothes and that doesn't mean she's lost weight with a fad diet.

by milkyboy Sun 15 Feb 2015, 4:24 pm

That's me, captain killjoy. Waiting til someone like fingers who knows what his onions, says his piece, then riding his coat tails on a subject I know precious little about.

Mrs milky says if you insist on comforting her, could you bring a bigger comfort stick next time.

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 15 Feb 2015, 5:39 pm

milkyboy wrote:That's me, captain killjoy. Waiting til someone like fingers who knows what his onions, says his piece, then riding his coat tails on a subject I know precious little about.

Mrs milky says if you insist on comforting her, could you bring a bigger comfort stick next time.

Tell her I said sorry but i'd paid a unscheduled visit to Mrs Truss earlier but unfortunately she was out and instead I found Truss masturbating to the voice of Michael Buble. My comfort stick immediately retreated down my legs and into my foot. Even the lovely Mrs milky found it a tough ask to coax it back out again.

by milkyboy Sun 15 Feb 2015, 5:42 pm

Glad we've cleared that up

by **ShahenshahG** Sun 15 Feb 2015, 5:46 pm

milkyboy wrote:Glad we've cleared that up

Truss hired your services as an industrial cleaner that day then?

by Strongback Sun 15 Feb 2015, 10:46 pm

In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Boxing 101

by 3fingers Mon 16 Feb 2015, 1:00 pm

Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 1:07 pm

3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

Surely you're not suggesting Strongy is full of crap ...are you ??

by Guest Mon 16 Feb 2015, 1:30 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

Surely you're not suggesting Strongy is full of crap ...are you ??

Nope, that's a definite unequivocal declaration that STRONGY is full of crap

by Derbymanc Mon 16 Feb 2015, 2:13 pm

3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

You wanna be careful 3f's he might hunt you down for a bout and show off his superior skills, he's really very good you know.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 2:14 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
milkyboy wrote:That's me, captain killjoy. Waiting til someone like fingers who knows what his onions, says his piece, then riding his coat tails on a subject I know precious little about.

Mrs milky says if you insist on comforting her, could you bring a bigger comfort stick next time.

Tell her I said sorry but i'd paid a unscheduled visit to Mrs Truss earlier but unfortunately she was out and instead I found Truss masturbating to the voice of Michael Buble.

That'll teach me to lock the front door in future !!....

by milkyboy Mon 16 Feb 2015, 2:57 pm

3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

We all became armchair check hook experts after this. :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkgRfQ65FNY

technically fingers, was it actually a check hook? Looked to me like his left foot was in the air when the punch landed and he pivoted afterwards.

by kingraf Mon 16 Feb 2015, 3:14 pm

Well, he did check his punch.... and the punch he checked was a hook?

by Guest Mon 16 Feb 2015, 3:18 pm

If he could do a check spinning backfist, I'd be impressed

by 3fingers Mon 16 Feb 2015, 3:41 pm

milkyboy wrote:
3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

We all became armchair check hook experts after this. :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkgRfQ65FNY

technically fingers, was it actually a check hook? Looked to me like his left foot was in the air when the punch landed and he pivoted afterwards.

Unable to watch the video.

Honestly. I'd never heard of a check hook before Mayweather named. i'd never seen it specifically taught as such but seen similar.

Anyone can throw a 'check hook' infront of a mirror. All will connect with it during choreographed drills with a partner

...but it's one of those skills that only the most naturally gifted of fighters can land effectively during a fight, typically against a certain type of fighter, in particular situations.

by Coxy001 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 3:54 pm

In summary 3fingers, Strongy is talking bullcrap as usual.

Unable to watch the video.

Big Ricky fan and can't bring yourself to watch him headbutt the ring post padding? Do you also talk about yourself in the 3rd person? "3fingers has an ickle bit of a problem with cuddling contests and am ooof down t'pub to get smashed on Guinness... T'fight is only one week away so will be fiiiiiiine for 3fingers to get sloshed"

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 6:11 pm

3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

A check hook is any hook that lands on a fighter whose momentum is moving towards the punch. The punch is a force counter acting the momentum which is why it is refereed to as a check... Same way as a striker in football who has been obstructed is sometimes described as having been "checked by the defended".

The fighter does not need to be moving forward to be check hooked. If a fighter steps sideways into a punch that is also a check hook.

If a fighter knows his opponent is constantly stepping to one side or spinning off he can anticipate this and throw a quick left hook checking the momentum of the side stepping fight. That's the way I was taught. And when I tried to step sideways, as I was taught, in sparring with the best lads (national champs) in the gym I often got hooked, many times with a double hook, body and head, elbow kept up nice and high just in case the punch missed.

by Derbymanc Mon 16 Feb 2015, 6:21 pm

Strongy can you post some info on this as the only references I can find to this are with relation to Floyd/Hatton.

Cheers Buddy, the kids start boxing training again soon so am trying to get a bit more up to speed. (At an actual gym too, not in there minds or nothing.)

by Dipper Brown Mon 16 Feb 2015, 6:37 pm

On YouTube you should be able to find a video of RJJr back against ropes beckoning his opponent in, he dives in, Roy side steps and clips him with his left (or right, I forget ), sounds a lot like this fabled 'check hook' everyone is speaking of. It could probably help a lot if I could remember who it was against but it's gone.

Inclined to agree with what Fingers says though. That kind of punch isn't something you'd see in many top fights. But then Roy Jones was anything but orthodox and there was usually a level of disparity between him and his opponents.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 6:42 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Strongy can you post some info on this as the only references I can find to this are with relation to Floyd/Hatton.

Cheers Buddy, the kids start boxing training again soon so am trying to get a bit more up to speed. (At an actual gym too, not in there minds or nothing.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivpKvYg2qwY

For an example The first technique the boxer is practicing in this video. If catching a side stepping fighter the hook would be thrown slightly wider but still nice and tight with the punching arm parallel to to the floor.

Just thinking about it, it must be 30 years since I first walked into a boxing gym.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 16 Feb 2015, 6:50 pm

Strongback wrote:
3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

A check hook is any hook that lands on a fighter whose momentum is moving towards the punch. The punch is a force counter acting the momentum which is why it is refereed to as a check... Same way as a striker in football who has been obstructed is sometimes described as having been "checked by the defended".

The fighter does not need to be moving forward to be check hooked. If a fighter steps sideways into a punch that is also a check hook.

If a fighter knows his opponent is constantly stepping to one side or spinning off he can anticipate this and throw a quick left hook checking the momentum of the side stepping fight. That's the way I was taught. And when I tried to step sideways, as I was taught, in sparring with the best lads (national champs) in the gym I often got hooked, many times with a double hook, body and head, elbow kept up nice and high just in case the punch missed.

No it's not that's just a counter hook.

The best to think of it is like a matador evading the bull, the initial target (defensive fighter) lands a hook and then pivots away on his lead foot to create the impression of the cloak being pulled away. It is specifically for a fighter lunging in a forwards direction, you can't pivot away from an opponent moving sideways and gain an advantage. With regards to the initial point, Lomachenko doesn't lunge in and it's highly unlikely he'll be in the ring with somebody more skilled than he is, he might get bull rushed but check hooked no chance.

by Derbymanc Mon 16 Feb 2015, 6:51 pm

Dipper Brown wrote:On YouTube you should be able to find a video of RJJr back against ropes beckoning his opponent in, he dives in, Roy side steps and clips him with his left (or right, I forget ), sounds a lot like this fabled 'check hook' everyone is speaking of. It could probably help a lot if I could remember who it was against but it's gone.

Inclined to agree with what Fingers says though. That kind of punch isn't something you'd see in many top fights. But then Roy Jones was anything but orthodox and there was usually a level of disparity between him and his opponents.

I've never heard of the check hook apart from it being spoken about in regards to Mayweather/Hatton, looking it up says the same.

Seems to be one of them things that people yap about to try and sound knowledgable

Looks like a sidestep followed by a hook in that video Strongy, think i'll chat with the trainer about it instead. Cheers anyway though (seriously btw appreciate you taking a bit of time to find that link)

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 7:00 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Strongback wrote:
3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:In an orthodox style we were always taught to side step to the right as a left hook or straight right can be landed on a fighter that hasn't turned quickly enough.

Ok, I some what agree with this. Stepping right avoids your orthodox opponents back hand, and creates an angle for you own right hand especially as a counter your opponents left hand (whether it be a jab or hook). Stepping right (after loading the front foot) also increases the power of the left hook as your body weight goes in the direction of the punch.

The defending fighter can though throw a check left hook that the side stepping fighter walks onto. The power of the punch combined with the offensive fighter side stepping onto it makes for a big hit.

Absolute cowpat.....if you threw a check left hook from an orthodox stance (back foot pivoting clockwise) at a fighter side stepping to his right he'd still be facing you while you have now pivoted in the wrong direction and are facing away.

For orthodox fighters, a check left hook is used against a fighter rushing in on a straight line, usually as a counter to his right hand, it allows the opponent to pass you as you turn, allowing you to attack while he attempts to turn and regain position.

Boxing 101
There's nothing Boxing 101 about timing, throwing, pivoting and landing a check left. To use it effectively is a seriously advanced skill, and not something I have seen taught under the guise of "check hook" during my 23 years in various boxing clubs.

A check hook is any hook that lands on a fighter whose momentum is moving towards the punch. The punch is a force counter acting the momentum which is why it is refereed to as a check... Same way as a striker in football who has been obstructed is sometimes described as having been "checked by the defended".

The fighter does not need to be moving forward to be check hooked. If a fighter steps sideways into a punch that is also a check hook.

If a fighter knows his opponent is constantly stepping to one side or spinning off he can anticipate this and throw a quick left hook checking the momentum of the side stepping fight. That's the way I was taught. And when I tried to step sideways, as I was taught, in sparring with the best lads (national champs) in the gym I often got hooked, many times with a double hook, body and head, elbow kept up nice and high just in case the punch missed.

No it's not that's just a counter hook.

The best to think of it is like a matador evading the bull, the initial target (defensive fighter) lands a hook and then pivots away on his lead foot to create the impression of the cloak being pulled away. It is specifically for a fighter lunging in a forwards direction, you can't pivot away from an opponent moving sideways and gain an advantage. With regards to the initial point, Lomachenko doesn't lunge in and it's highly unlikely he'll be in the ring with somebody more skilled than he is, he might get bull rushed but check hooked no chance.

I've already read what google says. Those articles are all about Mayweathers punch. To check means to punch against the momentum of the opponents movement.

A counter punch is when the opponent throws a punch and then doesn't get his stance or defense back up quickly enough and then there is an opportunity to counter punch.

Lomachenko side steps and spins like its a habit. Having habits in boxing is generally a bad thing. Louis learned that lesson.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 7:11 pm

Derbymanc wrote:
Dipper Brown wrote:On YouTube you should be able to find a video of RJJr back against ropes beckoning his opponent in, he dives in, Roy side steps and clips him with his left (or right, I forget ), sounds a lot like this fabled 'check hook' everyone is speaking of. It could probably help a lot if I could remember who it was against but it's gone.

Inclined to agree with what Fingers says though. That kind of punch isn't something you'd see in many top fights. But then Roy Jones was anything but orthodox and there was usually a level of disparity between him and his opponents.

I've never heard of the check hook apart from it being spoken about in regards to Mayweather/Hatton, looking it up says the same.

Seems to be one of them things that people yap about to try and sound knowledgable

Looks like a sidestep followed by a hook in that video Strongy, think i'll chat with the trainer about it instead. Cheers anyway though (seriously btw appreciate you taking a bit of time to find that link)

The punch and pivot happen in the same movement creating power and stopping the side stepping opponent from getting into the position to throw a right hand against a fighter facing in the wrong direction.

by Dipper Brown Mon 16 Feb 2015, 7:18 pm

I'd have just called it a hook also Derby.

In all honesty, a lot of this is going over my head. Having never been a boxer, I can't really picture what's being described.

by Derbymanc Mon 16 Feb 2015, 7:34 pm

Same here Dipper, but it's nice to try and be educated sometimes Smile

Why is it so frickin difficult to get hold of boxing gyms though grrrrrrrrrrrrrr. If the kids weren't up for it then I don't think i'd bother.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 7:45 pm

Ricky Hatton gives another example.

Most have probably seen the "Same move every time" video but what Hatton is saying is correct.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrmh90dsvOU

Paquiao has a habit of throwing a right hook while rolling under the opponents oncoming left hand punch. Hatton correctly identified this and notes that when Pacquiao throws the punch and spins he will give Manny "something to spin onto".

Unfortunately while Haton knew what was coming Pac was just far too quick and was able to land the punch regardless.

I know this feeling as I used to spar with a very good fighter with super quick hands. He was in a different league to me but what I remember most was seeing his punches coming but not being able to do anything about them landing. Luckily he was a fairly light hitter and it was only sparring.

by milkyboy Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:08 pm

Dipper/derby... Don't worry about it being over your heads. I think this one is at quite some altitude and isn't coming down any time soon.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:23 pm

milkyboy wrote:Dipper/derby... Don't worry about it being over your heads. I think this one is at quite some altitude and isn't coming down any time soon.

Surely the lads can follow the Hatton video. Explains it well with video. 3 Knuckles will get it if his ego lets him. He can then give me an apology.

by 3fingers Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:35 pm

You're full Poopie mate, and you know it. You haven't got the foggiest.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:40 pm

3fingers wrote:You're full Poopie mate, and you know it. You haven't got the foggiest.

Who's full of it. Hatton explains exactly what I have been saying in the video. I know its right because Liam Moore taught me it and he had been 50 years in boxing at the time. I had excellent boxers land the hook on me when I first was learning the side step right/ right cross move.

You were caught out mate, just admit it.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:42 pm

I think everyone is going to agree with the guy who has shown he knows a thing or two about the technical side of things, what you're describing is simply not a check hook. There's a very good reason why it's likened to a bull and matador.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:45 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I think everyone is going to agree with the guy who has shown he knows a thing or two about the technical side of things, what you're describing is simply not a check hook. There's a very good reason why it's likened to a bull and matador.

He can talk as technically as he likes, in this situation he is wrong.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:48 pm

He isn't wrong, he is 100% spot on with what he's saying, he's knows it, I know it and you know it.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:52 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He isn't wrong, he is 100% spot on with what he's saying, he's knows it, I know it and you know it.

You wouldn't know a left hook if it cracked you on the head ya clown.

Save your childish attempts at antagonism for your stalking of Haz.

I'll wait for a more technical response from the 3 knuckle shuffler than 'you're a poopie'.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:56 pm

Not like HBO went into a lot of detail after the Hatton knockout explaining exactly what a check hook is or anything, that was only Manny Steward though, what does he know about the technicalities of boxing.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 10:03 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Not like HBO went into a lot of detail after the Hatton knockout explaining exactly what a check hook is or anything, that was only Manny Steward though, what does he know about the technicalities of boxing.

Listen, seriously leave it if you have nothing constructive to add.

Hatton did not land his intended check hook, that's why it is not being talked about. Hatton's intention was to catch Manny with a check left hook as Manny was spinning to his right. That was good in theory it just didn't take into account how quick Pacquiao was compared to Hatton. Like I said it's often easy to see what a very quick fighter is doing but its a lot different being able to react quickly enough to do something about it.

by 3fingers Mon 16 Feb 2015, 10:16 pm

Strongback wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He isn't wrong, he is 100% spot on with what he's saying, he's knows it, I know it and you know it.

You wouldn't know a left hook if it cracked you on the head ya clown.

Save your childish attempts at antagonism for your stalking of Haz.

I'll wait for a more technical response from the 3 knuckle shuffler than 'you're a poopie'.

You won't be getting a more technical response from me. I have no desire to waste more time as I have nothing to gain from the 'I know more than you game'.

by milkyboy Mon 16 Feb 2015, 10:18 pm

Without wanting to impinge on your regular evening spat with hammy. Where in the hatton video does he refer or even describe a check hook. He just implies that he 'a going to try and catch manny with a left as spins away.

I'd say that's an example of what you think lomachenko could be caught with... But surely the punch itself is just a std left hook counter?

Hey Maybe check hook means different things to different people/coaches etc. As I said earlier, I'm not convinced the mayweather hatton one, was one by the definition i've seen. He threw the punch off the back foot and spun round after rather than using his front foot as a pivot.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 10:25 pm

3fingers wrote:
Strongback wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:He isn't wrong, he is 100% spot on with what he's saying, he's knows it, I know it and you know it.

You wouldn't know a left hook if it cracked you on the head ya clown.

Save your childish attempts at antagonism for your stalking of Haz.

I'll wait for a more technical response from the 3 knuckle shuffler than 'you're a poopie'.

You won't be getting a more technical response from me. I have no desire to waste more time as I have nothing to gain from the 'I know more than you game'.

The Hatton video demonstrates what I described. I'm happy with that.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 10:43 pm

milkyboy wrote:Without wanting to impinge on your regular evening spat with hammy. Where in the hatton video does he refer or even describe a check hook. He just implies that he 'a going to try and catch manny with a left as spins away.

I'd say that's an example of what you think lomachenko could be caught with... But surely the punch itself is just a std left hook counter?

Hey Maybe check hook means different things to different people/coaches etc. As I said earlier, I'm not convinced the mayweather hatton one, was one by the definition i've seen. He threw the punch off the back foot and spun round after rather than using his front foot as a pivot.

I wish Hammy would stop commenting on my posts as it seems he only wants to argue.

As for the check hook its in the name. The punch is landed against a fighter moving towards the punch. I first heard of a check hook long before I first logged onto the internet in the mid-90's. I'm sure Louis threw a few as he was a bit of wiz with the left hook. I don't think how your feet are positioned is is part of the definition of the punch, it is more to do with landing a punch against the the direction of the momentum of the fighter. I would definitely describe Mayweather's as a check hook.

The check hook punch does not need to be a counter. The idea is you anticipate your opponents movement e.g. Hatton charging in and land a hook before Hatton's punch lands. A lot of the definitions of a check hook I have seen on the net just describe the Mayweather punch as if that is the only check hook.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:03 pm

What do people think of this one?

by JabMachineMK2 Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:13 pm

I'm going to have to interject. There's no such thing as a "check" hook. There's an inside hook, if that's what you're referring to - its a quick hook inside when they've moved. It's not something invented and it's also not new to hook someone as they move off. Its actually a standard punch to teach to defensive counter punchers as its usually followed with a second or a jab when moving off - you can of course stand and trade if they're shook by it but thats not the intent of the punch. its a scoring punch rather than anything to hurt with.

by Strongback Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:26 pm

JabMachineMK2 wrote:I'm going to have to interject. There's no such thing as a "check" hook. There's an inside hook, if that's what you're referring to - its a quick hook inside when they've moved. It's not something invented and it's also not new to hook someone as they move off, its actually a standard punch to teach to defensive counter punchers as its usually followed with a second or a jab when moving off - you can of course stand and trade if they're shook by it but thats not the intent of the punch. its a scoring punch rather than anything to hurt with.

I would see the punch Hatton wanted to throw as having a wider arc than an inside hook. It would travel further than than a short hook or inside hook.

The Judah punch was more of a counter as Mayweather lunged in to land a straight right to the body. Mayweather's head absorbed the force of Judah's punch plus the momentum of Floyd diving forward. I've seen Floyd getting countered like that before when he throws a straight right to the body.

Landing with the first hook on an opponent side stepping you have the potential to really hurt them and then usually have an opening to land a second hook to body or head depending on where their right hand guard is.

by rob-glos Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:26 pm

Strongback wrote:Ricky Hatton gives another example.

Most have probably seen the "Same move every time" video but what Hatton is saying is correct.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrmh90dsvOU

Paquiao has a habit of throwing a right hook while rolling under the opponents oncoming left hand punch. Hatton correctly identified this and notes that when Pacquiao throws the punch and spins he will give Manny "something to spin onto".

Unfortunately while Haton knew what was coming Pac was just far too quick and was able to land the punch regardless.

I know this feeling as I used to spar with a very good fighter with super quick hands. He was in a different league to me but what I remember most was seeing his punches coming but not being able to do anything about them landing. Luckily he was a fairly light hitter and it was only sparring.

This was something that Roach worked on specifically for the Hatton fight.
Hatton had a massive tell that he was throwing that lead left hook and they devised a very effective counter punch.

Roach talked about it in interviews after the fight.

Said Hatton left himself wide open and it was only a matter of time before Pac landed as he came in.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 17 Feb 2015, 6:38 am

He used to man sausage his right hand if I recall Rob before throwing the left.

by milkyboy Tue 17 Feb 2015, 8:30 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:He used to man sausage his right hand if I recall Rob before throwing the left.

If he's going to make gestures like that, no wonder manny chinned him.

Sounds like a man sausage and bull story to me.

Anyone got a link to the thread where onetwo encountered a swear filter for the first time, I'm in need of some comedy gold this morning.

by Coxy001 Tue 17 Feb 2015, 9:17 am

rob-glos wrote:
Strongback wrote:Ricky Hatton gives another example.

Most have probably seen the "Same move every time" video but what Hatton is saying is correct.

Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrmh90dsvOU

Paquiao has a habit of throwing a right hook while rolling under the opponents oncoming left hand punch. Hatton correctly identified this and notes that when Pacquiao throws the punch and spins he will give Manny "something to spin onto".

Unfortunately while Haton knew what was coming Pac was just far too quick and was able to land the punch regardless.

I know this feeling as I used to spar with a very good fighter with super quick hands. He was in a different league to me but what I remember most was seeing his punches coming but not being able to do anything about them landing. Luckily he was a fairly light hitter and it was only sparring.

This was something that Roach worked on specifically for the Hatton fight.
Hatton had a massive tell that he was throwing that lead left hook and they devised a very effective counter punch.

Roach talked about it in interviews after the fight.

Said Hatton left himself wide open and it was only a matter of time before Pac landed as he came in.

Yup he cocks his left hand when he's about to throw, thus it was pretty easy for Pac to read and time him before he even threw.

As for this nonsense that Strongy is spouting - It's just an short hook thrown on the inside. The arc is shortened due to the other guy being at a range that doesn't facilitate throwing the standard hook. Counter inside hook - call it what you want. You're not inventing anything new - what have people done for years when a guy gets in close? Just throw uppercuts as that was the only punch they could conceivably land? No - WAIT! They could also throw a short inside hook as well! Silly silly me.

God you talk some tripe sometimes.

by Derbymanc Tue 17 Feb 2015, 9:27 am

Don't go too hard on the lad, he's backed himself into a corner with all his claims and now can't get himself out.

Found it Strongy, forgot you was Irish for some reason and thought you was up north????? think I need some more sleep.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 17 Feb 2015, 9:35 am

Like how Strongy talks about something that he can't find any evidence of. The only examples of this fabled 'check hook' are fighters getting caught coming in in a straight line - no evidence of its (effective) use against someone using good lateral movement for defence.

Nice to see some actual knowledgable people on here show his baloney up for the rubbish it is, before we even get to the issue that if this 'weakness' was so obvious/easy to exploit - why has nobody been able to? Not even the guy with arguably the fastest hands in boxing??!

Loma will continue to make a mockery of Strongy, that's good enough for me.....

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