Guardian's Kevin Mitchell Sticks It To Floyd

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 3:41 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/feb/23/floyd-mayweather-greatest-sugar-ray-robinson-leonard

We will be reminded regularly between now and 2 May that Floyd Mayweather is the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world, the most gifted practitioner of the fighting arts since Sugar Ray Leonard.

There are good arguments for such a judgment. Mayweather is unbeaten in 47 fights, has won world titles from super-feather to light-middle and has earned more than any other boxer in the long history of the sport. If numbers do not tell the whole story, seeing, surely, is believing: even a cursory inspection of his performances confirms he has a unique and special talent.

Mayweather would agree, of course; for a little while now, he has called himself TBE: The Best Ever.

That, however, is a call way too far. Mayweather might be the best of his generation (an argument we can come back to). But, even if he beats Manny Pacquiao to unify the welterweight title this summer, he will fall considerably short of Sugar Ray Robinson as the finest all-round fighter of them all.

In his first 47 fights alone Robinson beat Sammy Angott (twice), Marty Servo (twice), Fritzie Zivic (twice) and Jake LaMotta (twice), as well as losing to the Raging Bull in the first three of their six memorable encounters. And he had hardly warmed up, going on to win 173 of his 200 bouts over 25 years. From lightweight to middleweight, mostly at world level, Ray knocked out 61 more opponents than Floyd has yet fought. In his final year, 1965, he fought 14 times – Mayweather’s total over the past nine years. There is simply no comparison.

Mayweather is not as good as Leonard, either – not in every department.

Leonard was as comfortable taking the initiative as in bamboozling opponents on the back foot. He hit harder and more often than Mayweather, who is a counter-puncher supreme, finishing rather than starting the argument.

Nor would he necessarily beat Leonard’s rivals, Roberto Duran, Tommy Hearns or Marvin Hagler – although it is unfair to imagine he would be big enough for the latter two.

Duran – a natural lightweight until he vacated the title in 1979, about the time his waistband began to expand as his dedication dwindled – was the nearest to a peak Mayweather in size – and what a fight theirs would be.

Whose pedigree better survives closer scrutiny? There is not much in it.

Those first 74 fights of Duran’s long career included a single defeat – over 10 rounds to Esteban DeJesus in their first bout – and wins over Ken Buchanan, DeJesus (twice), Carlos Palomino and Leonard. While the “No Mas” rematch against Sugar Ray proved a turning point, Duran fought on with varying degrees of distinction and ambition at the highest level. The final 26 of his 119 contests were, in the main, for money more than glory but he was rarely taken for granted, even as an old, fat, shuffling middleweight.

For all Mayweather’s brilliance, for all his mastery of his contemporaries, he has not done what any of the Four Kings did: test himself on a regular basis against opponents of similar genius. Theirs was an extraordinary era, one which they shared as near equals, crowned not by themselves but by their peers and deeds.

Mayweather can fight only those opponents available to him – but Pacquaio has been available since 2009. Oscar De La Hoya was on the slide when they met, even though the Golden Boy might have won had he not gassed in the closing rounds. So was Shane Mosley. Arturo Gatti was brave but tailor-made for dismantling, as was Ricky Hatton. Miguel Cotto was tough – and that was about it; ditto Saúl Álvarez and Marcos Maidana. Imagine what Leonard or Duran would have done to any of those fighters.

Nice guys finish last again

Some fighters are just such nice guys that you want them to win, no matter the odds or opponent. Paul Smith and Martin Murray are two such fighters, which made their world title defeats on Saturday night the harder to take.

Yet neither was diminished in failure.

Smith gave all he had in his rematch with the German rock Arthur Abraham in Berlin, falling short for the second time. Murray, in his third world title fight, similarly found the strength and class of Gennady Golovkin too much for even his out-sized heart, and was stopped in the 11th round in Monte Carlo.

And the unstoppable rise of Golovkin brings us back to Mayweather. The unbeaten Kazakh, after 19 knockouts on the spin, will probably be steered towards Cotto in the coming months, although he has said he is happy to drop down to 154lb to meet Mayweather.

Mayweather, who loves to bet on everything from basketball to NFL with his “big tycoon buddies”, will regard that as a gamble too far.

Paulie Malignaggi, a good judge, agrees with him. He says Golovkin would be too big for Mayweather, that there is nothing in it for the American, nothing to prove.

Perhaps. But tell it to Duran, Sugar Ray or any of the other amazing fighters who went out of their comfort zone time and again to test themselves against the very best opponents available.

Greatness is not assumed. It is conferred.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 3:42 pm

Is that all the article ???..............Or have you have left out the good bit like last time...

His opinion is as good as anybody elses on here...........No better no worse..

by kingraf Mon 23 Feb 2015, 3:52 pm

Rather strange Article. Clearly meant as a "checked" dig, you can tell by the tone. But very little dig in it.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 3:57 pm

We've always had journalists or pundits peeing on certain fighters............

Ferdie Pacheco's great line that had "Louis fought Charles earlier he would have been a one round kayo bum of the month" .........Sure I'd pick prime Louis but what blatant disregard for a great fighter !!........

I have my own opinions...............I don't need some two bit hack of a journalist to tell me what I should think............

by Derbymanc Mon 23 Feb 2015, 3:59 pm

Didn't think it was too bad, just stating that Floyd isn't the best ever. Best of this generation maybe.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:05 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Didn't think it was too bad, just stating that Floyd isn't the best ever. Best of this generation maybe.

Judging by the thread title............Not sure everyone agrees with you...

Then agian If you are always negative about a certain fighter.....You'll see what you like.

I found it amusing that Benitez and every other great technician beats Duran.............and Mayweather has no chance !!

We'd all agree Mayweather is as good a technician as Benitez...........

by **88Chris05** Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:08 pm

Ok, so a scholar writes that Mayweather's very, very good, maybe even great, but Ray Robbo he ain't. He gives reasons why, some of which are fair enough, some of which are plain daft and unfair on Floyd (I guess Floyd's not fit to lace Chavez's boots either, seeing as Julio went a whole 87-0 with 75 knockouts before Whitaker put the first blotch on his copy book?). Points out that the Pacquiao fight should have happened years ago, which every single sane human being with an ounce of interest in boxing already knows. The general feel of the article is that there is a degree of truth in what's being written, but that there's perhaps an element of rose-tinted specs or bias towards the past within it, too.

So, that sums up every single one of the other fourteen thousand articles by an assortment of boxing writers posted about Mayweather in the last few years - now let's take a look at this one above by Mitchell. Oh, it's basically the same as all the others. Again.

When was the last time anything fresh or remotely interesting was written about Mayweather by such a writer? Does anyone get anything out of these kind of offerings by Mitchell? I like Kevin as a writer, don't get me wrong, but him and his fellow professionals seriously need to come from a different angle on this particular subject now, because it's become boring beyond belief.

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:14 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Ok, so a scholar writes that Mayweather's very, very good, maybe even great, but Ray Robbo he ain't. He gives reasons why, some of which are fair enough, some of which are plain daft and unfair on Floyd (I guess Floyd's not fit to lace Chavez's boots either, seeing as Julio went a whole 87-0 with 75 knockouts before Whitaker put the first blotch on his copy book?). Points out that the Pacquiao fight should have happened years ago, which every single sane human being with an ounce of interest in boxing already knows. The general feel of the article is that there is a degree of truth in what's being written, but that there's perhaps an element of rose-tinted specs or bias towards the past within it, too.

So, that sums up every single one of the other fourteen thousand articles by an assortment of boxing writers posted about Mayweather in the last few years - now let's take a look at this one above by Mitchell. Oh, it's basically the same as all the others. Again.

When was the last time anything fresh or remotely interesting was written about Mayweather by such a writer? Does anyone get anything out of these kind of offerings by Mitchell? I like Kevin as a writer, don't get me wrong, but him and his fellow professionals seriously need to come from a different angle on this particular subject now, because it's become boring beyond belief.

By fresh do you mean one that contradicts the above (and so fits in with 606's overinflated opinion of him)?

Mitchell wrote a cracking article on Floyd before one of the Maidana fights (or possibly Alvarez). Probably still out there somewhere.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:19 pm

hazharrison wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Ok, so a scholar writes that Mayweather's very, very good, maybe even great, but Ray Robbo he ain't. He gives reasons why, some of which are fair enough, some of which are plain daft and unfair on Floyd (I guess Floyd's not fit to lace Chavez's boots either, seeing as Julio went a whole 87-0 with 75 knockouts before Whitaker put the first blotch on his copy book?). Points out that the Pacquiao fight should have happened years ago, which every single sane human being with an ounce of interest in boxing already knows. The general feel of the article is that there is a degree of truth in what's being written, but that there's perhaps an element of rose-tinted specs or bias towards the past within it, too.

So, that sums up every single one of the other fourteen thousand articles by an assortment of boxing writers posted about Mayweather in the last few years - now let's take a look at this one above by Mitchell. Oh, it's basically the same as all the others. Again.

When was the last time anything fresh or remotely interesting was written about Mayweather by such a writer? Does anyone get anything out of these kind of offerings by Mitchell? I like Kevin as a writer, don't get me wrong, but him and his fellow professionals seriously need to come from a different angle on this particular subject now, because it's become boring beyond belief.

By fresh do you mean one that contradicts the above (and so fits in with 606's overinflated opinion of him)?

Mitchell wrote a cracking article on Floyd before one of the Maidana fights (or possibly Alvarez). Probably still out there somewhere.

Here we go again a journo writes something so it's gospel.............

So some two bit hack knows more about the history of Boxing than all of us on 606....

Because he agrees with you.....................you sound like D4 !!

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Ok, so a scholar writes that Mayweather's very, very good, maybe even great, but Ray Robbo he ain't. He gives reasons why, some of which are fair enough, some of which are plain daft and unfair on Floyd (I guess Floyd's not fit to lace Chavez's boots either, seeing as Julio went a whole 87-0 with 75 knockouts before Whitaker put the first blotch on his copy book?). Points out that the Pacquiao fight should have happened years ago, which every single sane human being with an ounce of interest in boxing already knows. The general feel of the article is that there is a degree of truth in what's being written, but that there's perhaps an element of rose-tinted specs or bias towards the past within it, too.

So, that sums up every single one of the other fourteen thousand articles by an assortment of boxing writers posted about Mayweather in the last few years - now let's take a look at this one above by Mitchell. Oh, it's basically the same as all the others. Again.

When was the last time anything fresh or remotely interesting was written about Mayweather by such a writer? Does anyone get anything out of these kind of offerings by Mitchell? I like Kevin as a writer, don't get me wrong, but him and his fellow professionals seriously need to come from a different angle on this particular subject now, because it's become boring beyond belief.

By fresh do you mean one that contradicts the above (and so fits in with 606's overinflated opinion of him)?

Mitchell wrote a cracking article on Floyd before one of the Maidana fights (or possibly Alvarez). Probably still out there somewhere.

Here we go again a journo writes something so it's gospel.............

So some two bit hack knows more about the history of Boxing than all of us on 606....

Because he agrees with you.....................you sound like D4 !!

I like Kevin but his knowledge appears lacking at times. Agree with him here, though (as you know).

I've no idea what a D4 is. Is it a Floyd shaped butt plug?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:24 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Ok, so a scholar writes that Mayweather's very, very good, maybe even great, but Ray Robbo he ain't. He gives reasons why, some of which are fair enough, some of which are plain daft and unfair on Floyd (I guess Floyd's not fit to lace Chavez's boots either, seeing as Julio went a whole 87-0 with 75 knockouts before Whitaker put the first blotch on his copy book?). Points out that the Pacquiao fight should have happened years ago, which every single sane human being with an ounce of interest in boxing already knows. The general feel of the article is that there is a degree of truth in what's being written, but that there's perhaps an element of rose-tinted specs or bias towards the past within it, too.

So, that sums up every single one of the other fourteen thousand articles by an assortment of boxing writers posted about Mayweather in the last few years - now let's take a look at this one above by Mitchell. Oh, it's basically the same as all the others. Again.

When was the last time anything fresh or remotely interesting was written about Mayweather by such a writer? Does anyone get anything out of these kind of offerings by Mitchell? I like Kevin as a writer, don't get me wrong, but him and his fellow professionals seriously need to come from a different angle on this particular subject now, because it's become boring beyond belief.

By fresh do you mean one that contradicts the above (and so fits in with 606's overinflated opinion of him)?

Mitchell wrote a cracking article on Floyd before one of the Maidana fights (or possibly Alvarez). Probably still out there somewhere.

Here we go again a journo writes something so it's gospel.............

So some two bit hack knows more about the history of Boxing than all of us on 606....

Because he agrees with you.....................you sound like D4 !!

I like Kevin but his knowledge appears lacking at times. Agree with him here, though (as you know).

I've no idea what a D4 is. Is it a Floyd shaped butt plug?

His knowledge appears lacking but you print this...and he wrote a great article on May-Maidana !! Laugh

Becoming a silly crusade now Mate !!!......

"Murray is a top win...............Manny is meaningless because Mayweather is a 3/1 favorite"............. You're sounding like an idiot !!

by Strongback Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:27 pm

Hey Truss, an article about Floyd in the Labour Party gazette!!!

by **88Chris05** Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:27 pm

I'll take your word on that other Mitchell article about Mayweather, Haz. Just feel as if you can basically sum up everything any article such as this will say before you even read it, so often has this piece of ground been covered.

And no, by a fresh and interesting article I don't mean one which lauds Mayweather as an untouchable genius, justifies his avoidance of the Pacquiao fight for the last half decade and picks him to beat every other great from in or around his weight class, which is no doubt your imagined, exaggerated take on the apparently "overinflated opinion" the users of this board have of Floyd. Be it good or bad, I just wish somebody said something different about him, took a new approach, didn't make it clear either way which side their loyalties belong to etc.

It's odd, Mayweather's biggest critics always moan about the so-called 'Floydettes' and how foolish they look extolling his greatness and claiming he could hang with the Sugar Rays, Duran etc, yet they're just as bad and over-sensitive the second anyone even hints that they rate Mayweather higher then the general consensus. Both sides have got a ridiculous knee-jerk sensitivity to all things Mayweather that it makes a proper, reasoned discussion on him impossible and hard to enjoy a lot of the time.

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:29 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
88Chris05 wrote:Ok, so a scholar writes that Mayweather's very, very good, maybe even great, but Ray Robbo he ain't. He gives reasons why, some of which are fair enough, some of which are plain daft and unfair on Floyd (I guess Floyd's not fit to lace Chavez's boots either, seeing as Julio went a whole 87-0 with 75 knockouts before Whitaker put the first blotch on his copy book?). Points out that the Pacquiao fight should have happened years ago, which every single sane human being with an ounce of interest in boxing already knows. The general feel of the article is that there is a degree of truth in what's being written, but that there's perhaps an element of rose-tinted specs or bias towards the past within it, too.

So, that sums up every single one of the other fourteen thousand articles by an assortment of boxing writers posted about Mayweather in the last few years - now let's take a look at this one above by Mitchell. Oh, it's basically the same as all the others. Again.

When was the last time anything fresh or remotely interesting was written about Mayweather by such a writer? Does anyone get anything out of these kind of offerings by Mitchell? I like Kevin as a writer, don't get me wrong, but him and his fellow professionals seriously need to come from a different angle on this particular subject now, because it's become boring beyond belief.

By fresh do you mean one that contradicts the above (and so fits in with 606's overinflated opinion of him)?

Mitchell wrote a cracking article on Floyd before one of the Maidana fights (or possibly Alvarez). Probably still out there somewhere.

Here we go again a journo writes something so it's gospel.............

So some two bit hack knows more about the history of Boxing than all of us on 606....

Because he agrees with you.....................you sound like D4 !!

I like Kevin but his knowledge appears lacking at times. Agree with him here, though (as you know).

I've no idea what a D4 is. Is it a Floyd shaped butt plug?

His knowledge appears lacking but you print this...and he wrote a great article on May-Maidana !!

Becoming a silly crusade now Mate !!!......

"Murray is a top win...............Manny is meaningless because Mayweather is a 3/1 favorite"............. You're sounding like an idiot !!

I am aren't I!! Only I never said Murray was a top win.....or that Manny was a meaningless opponent....

So I guess I'm back to not looking like an idiot?

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 4:31 pm

88Chris05 wrote:I'll take your word on that other Mitchell article about Mayweather, Haz. Just feel as if you can basically sum up everything any article such as this will say before you even read it, so often has this piece of ground been covered.

And no, by a fresh and interesting article I don't mean one which lauds Mayweather as an untouchable genius, justifies his avoidance of the Pacquiao fight for the last half decade and picks him to beat every other great from in or around his weight class, which is no doubt your imagined, exaggerated take on the apparently "overinflated opinion" the users of this board have of Floyd. Be it good or bad, I just wish somebody said something different about him, took a new approach, didn't make it clear either way which side their loyalties belong to etc.

It's odd, Mayweather's biggest critics always moan about the so-called 'Floydettes' and how foolish they look extolling his greatness and claiming he could hang with the Sugar Rays, Duran etc, yet they're just as bad and over-sensitive the second anyone even hints that they rate Mayweather higher then the general consensus. Both sides have got a ridiculous knee-jerk sensitivity to all things Mayweather that it makes a proper, reasoned discussion on him impossible and hard to enjoy a lot of the time.

Maybe there isn't anything else to say about him? He's a pretty vacuous character.

by huw Mon 23 Feb 2015, 5:03 pm

88Chris05 wrote:Ok, so a scholar writes that Mayweather's very, very good, maybe even great, but Ray Robbo he ain't. He gives reasons why, some of which are fair enough, some of which are plain daft and unfair on Floyd (I guess Floyd's not fit to lace Chavez's boots either, seeing as Julio went a whole 87-0 with 75 knockouts before Whitaker put the first blotch on his copy book?). Points out that the Pacquiao fight should have happened years ago, which every single sane human being with an ounce of interest in boxing already knows. The general feel of the article is that there is a degree of truth in what's being written, but that there's perhaps an element of rose-tinted specs or bias towards the past within it, too.

So, that sums up every single one of the other fourteen thousand articles by an assortment of boxing writers posted about Mayweather in the last few years - now let's take a look at this one above by Mitchell. Oh, it's basically the same as all the others. Again.

When was the last time anything fresh or remotely interesting was written about Mayweather by such a writer? Does anyone get anything out of these kind of offerings by Mitchell? I like Kevin as a writer, don't get me wrong, but him and his fellow professionals seriously need to come from a different angle on this particular subject now, because it's become boring beyond belief.

Difficult to write something from a different angle on Mayweather though as he has continued to do the same thing for years. What else could be written, he is flash, the best technician around, thinks he's the best ever, generally fights people when he thinks he will win, really likes his money.

There is only so much that can be written about someone until they do something different.

Writers are paid to write and if someone is fairly new to boxing they won't have known Maywether has been the same for years, we are bored of it as we have analysed article after article to come to the same conclusion:

Mayweather is a bit of a dick but very good at what he does.

by Rowley Mon 23 Feb 2015, 5:05 pm

Welcome back Huw, it seems some time since you posted.

by huw Mon 23 Feb 2015, 5:18 pm

Rowley wrote:Welcome back Huw, it seems some time since you posted.

Thanks Rowley, this thing called work keeps getting in the way. More a reader than a writer in recent time but can't resist a Mayweather / Pacman or Strictly thread.

Hope you're well.

by Strongback Mon 23 Feb 2015, 5:22 pm

Mayweather's business model and personal conduct go before him.

By the first he is judged as a fighter. The second expresses his underlying character and lack of common decency.

Not hero material for a lot of people, generally disliked by most.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 5:25 pm

Strongback wrote:Mayweather's business model and personal conduct go before him.

By the first he is judged as a fighter. The second expresses his underlying character and lack of common decency.

Not hero material for a lot of people, generally disliked by most.

You know most Boxing fans do you .................Or are you making unsubstantiated statements again ??......

Like "most people hate Eddie etc...."

by Derbymanc Mon 23 Feb 2015, 5:32 pm

He's still pining for that cuddle Truss, why else would he be following you round.

Mayweather the person is a balloon, Mayweather the boxer is a fantastic talent. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive and by stating you think Mayweather is great does not mean your absolving him of his obvious shortcomings.

I know that a lot of the posters on here are very knowledgable about the sport but for newer fans and those not well versed in the sport, articles like this show that whilst Mayweather is rightly lauded as a talent there is better out there and it may just get someone to dig into the background a bit.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 5:36 pm

Derbymanc wrote:He's still pining for that cuddle Truss, why else would he be following you round.

Mayweather the person is a balloon, Mayweather the boxer is a fantastic talent. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive and by stating you think Mayweather is great does not mean your absolving him of his obvious shortcomings.

I know that a lot of the posters on here are very knowledgable about the sport but for newer fans and those not well versed in the sport, articles like this show that whilst Mayweather is rightly lauded as a talent there is better out there and it may just get someone to dig into the background a bit.

He is an a-hole..........But then again Curry has done jail time..........Let's face it we don't get to know the true personalities of any Boxers.....

I like watching a brilliant technician in action..........Loved watching Jones Jr too.......Loved watching Hamed..........

by Pedro147 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 5:55 pm

I like watching skilled technicians....plotting their way round tables......love seeing quality safety and quality break building!!!

For me it's a pleasure to watch unless it's Ebdon of course......

While I have certain favorites...If they lose...well I'll enjoy the snooker left on offer!!!

I'm not sure how anyone can admire a petulant, spoilt guy that has constantly derided the game that has made him a multi-millionnaire but fairplay If you do!!!

The above is what Trussman wrote about Ronnie O'Sullivan on the snooker forum. So Floyd fighting for money and not taking on the biggest challenges he could have fought was not showing disrespect to boxing. But someone he doesn't like such as ROS is not afforded the same. I'm a Floyd fan but thought I'd post this to highlight how posters can argue a point so blindly that no rational debate can be had with them on a topic, just like Chris highlighted earlier in the thread.

by Strongback Mon 23 Feb 2015, 6:00 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Strongback wrote:Mayweather's business model and personal conduct go before him.

By the first he is judged as a fighter. The second expresses his underlying character and lack of common decency.

Not hero material for a lot of people, generally disliked by most.

You know most Boxing fans do you .................Or are you making unsubstantiated statements again ??......

Like "most people hate Eddie etc...."

I read the press and I look at forums. The overwhelming consensus is Floyd is a top fighter but a cretin of a human being.

by DuransHorse Mon 23 Feb 2015, 6:22 pm

In fairness to Mayweather, I think he has done something different as he's signed to fight Pac! Many people have said he wouldn't so, money aside, credit where it's due. It does make a difference to his standing for me.

I have heard the arguments that he's waited for Pac to slip, but what in Mayweathers last couple of performances would have given him the belief that he's on top form? Gun to head I think Floyd wins, although I hope Pac triumphs if I'm honest. If Pac fought Maidana I think he's win just about every round. I also think if Floyd fought any of Manny's last opponents he'd win easily, but in less devastating fashion. However, I think Floyd will adapt and win on points after some initial success for Pac because he's a better boxer, even if his style isn't as crowd pleasing.

The reason why journalist all write the same stuff is probably because they probably feel as I do; all that talent has enlarged his ego and we most of us like to see a huge ego burst. The easiest stick to beat him with is in the article above. Kevin Mitchell obviously has a huge amount of respect for Floyds talents, but like millions of others looks at Floyds negative aspects because Floyd refuses to acknowledge them.

The fight's on, articles like this will be published every day but most importantly... THE FIGHT IS ON!!! ( yes, I will be watching ).

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 6:51 pm

Pedro147 wrote:I like watching skilled technicians....plotting their way round tables......love seeing quality safety and quality break building!!!

For me it's a pleasure to watch unless it's Ebdon of course......

While I have certain favorites...If they lose...well I'll enjoy the snooker left on offer!!!

I'm not sure how anyone can admire a petulant, spoilt guy that has constantly derided the game that has made him a multi-millionnaire but fairplay If you do!!!

The above is what Trussman wrote about Ronnie O'Sullivan on the snooker forum. So Floyd fighting for money and not taking on the biggest challenges he could have fought was not showing disrespect to boxing. But someone he doesn't like such as ROS is not afforded the same. I'm a Floyd fan but thought I'd post this to highlight how posters can argue a point so blindly that no rational debate can be had with them on a topic, just like Chris highlighted earlier in the thread.

Thank you Pedro. That's pretty funny!

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 23 Feb 2015, 6:54 pm

It's a rather pointless article and as Chris has said it adds nothing to the Mayweather debate, just a regurgitation of what he's previously written.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 7:19 pm

hazharrison wrote:
Pedro147 wrote:I like watching skilled technicians....plotting their way round tables......love seeing quality safety and quality break building!!!

For me it's a pleasure to watch unless it's Ebdon of course......

While I have certain favorites...If they lose...well I'll enjoy the snooker left on offer!!!

I'm not sure how anyone can admire a petulant, spoilt guy that has constantly derided the game that has made him a multi-millionnaire but fairplay If you do!!!

The above is what Trussman wrote about Ronnie O'Sullivan on the snooker forum. So Floyd fighting for money and not taking on the biggest challenges he could have fought was not showing disrespect to boxing. But someone he doesn't like such as ROS is not afforded the same. I'm a Floyd fan but thought I'd post this to highlight how posters can argue a point so blindly that no rational debate can be had with them on a topic, just like Chris highlighted earlier in the thread.

Thank you Pedro. That's pretty funny!

It's hilarious..

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 7:28 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
Pedro147 wrote:I like watching skilled technicians....plotting their way round tables......love seeing quality safety and quality break building!!!

For me it's a pleasure to watch unless it's Ebdon of course......

While I have certain favorites...If they lose...well I'll enjoy the snooker left on offer!!!

I'm not sure how anyone can admire a petulant, spoilt guy that has constantly derided the game that has made him a multi-millionnaire but fairplay If you do!!!

The above is what Trussman wrote about Ronnie O'Sullivan on the snooker forum. So Floyd fighting for money and not taking on the biggest challenges he could have fought was not showing disrespect to boxing. But someone he doesn't like such as ROS is not afforded the same. I'm a Floyd fan but thought I'd post this to highlight how posters can argue a point so blindly that no rational debate can be had with them on a topic, just like Chris highlighted earlier in the thread.

Thank you Pedro. That's pretty funny!

It's hilarious..

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 7:32 pm

I don't admire Mayweather either.............

I enjoy watching him fight...

I fail to see what's so funny...

Floyd has fought five top 10 p4pers............So Pedro's post is completely meaningless which is no surprise being the wally he is...

Look for the last time.................How can anybody take you seriously Haz when.............

1. You only paste half a Mayweather article slamming him and not the half praising him !!!!

2. When you think Murray is a better win than Manny would be.....

3. You write threads.....Claiming that a 37 yr old Mayweather beating Maidana shows he's not Top 10 material........

You're a prize pudding !!!!

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 7:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't admire Mayweather either.............

I enjoy watching him fight...

I fail to see what's so funny...

Floyd has fought five top 10 p4pers............So Pedro's post is completely meaningless which is no surprise being the wally he is...

Look for the last time.................How can anybody take you seriously Haz when.............

1. You only paste half a Mayweather article slamming him and not the half praising him !!!!

2. When you think Murray is a better win than Manny would be.....

3. You write threads.....Claiming that a 37 yr old Mayweather beating Maidana shows he's not Top 10 material........

You're a prize pudding !!!!

Ha! Just keep contradicting yourself buddy. You keep us all entertained with your nonsense!

by Rowley Mon 23 Feb 2015, 8:27 pm

Can I just point out we're not doing this b0llocks for the next ten weeks. A fight like this is good for the forum, it attracts new members and members who have not posted in a while. They are not going to be greeted by the same users having the same arguments and exchanging the same insults they have been exchanging for the last 12 months.

by DuransHorse Mon 23 Feb 2015, 8:35 pm

Rowley wrote:Can I just point out we're not doing this b0llocks for the next ten weeks. A fight like this is good for the forum, it attracts new members and members who have not posted in a while. They are not going to be greeted by the same users having the same arguments and exchanging the same insults they have been exchanging for the last 12 months.

Come on Rowley. This topic has kept you in a job for years now. Redundancies will be made on May 3rd, you can make your case to be kept on by secretly encouraging the bickering yet policing the forum with an iron fist.

by Rowley Mon 23 Feb 2015, 8:40 pm

I wish I shared your optimism, come May 3rd we have two years of it would have been different five years ago/told you he was overrated/he was robbed/the scorecards were rubbish (delete as appropriate)

I will be in work for years.

by catchweight Mon 23 Feb 2015, 8:45 pm

Nothing particularly new in the article but its essentially correct and the reason these kind of articles probably keeping getting made is to add some balance to the total crappola of guff and Mayweather brand marketing that is the staple of the current boxing climate.

There are new generations of boxing fans that never really experienced other era's. Many of them get pretty butthurt by the suggestion that the current crop of boxers dont measure up too well.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 8:53 pm

Rowley wrote:Can I just point out we're not doing this b0llocks for the next ten weeks. A fight like this is good for the forum, it attracts new members and members who have not posted in a while. They are not going to be greeted by the same users having the same arguments and exchanging the same insults they have been exchanging for the last 12 months.

I'm just rebutting the village idiot !!

You should be backing me up on here....He's just as deluded as D4 !!

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 8:58 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't admire Mayweather either.............

I enjoy watching him fight...

I fail to see what's so funny...

Floyd has fought five top 10 p4pers............So Pedro's post is completely meaningless which is no surprise being the wally he is...

Look for the last time.................How can anybody take you seriously Haz when.............

1. You only paste half a Mayweather article slamming him and not the half praising him !!!!

2. When you think Murray is a better win than Manny would be.....

3. You write threads.....Claiming that a 37 yr old Mayweather beating Maidana shows he's not Top 10 material........

You're a prize pudding !!!!

Ha! Just keep contradicting yourself buddy. You keep us all entertained with your nonsense!

by Coxy001 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 8:58 pm

Truss your longevity of not getting banned is something to behold.

Can't wait for a finish like Froch v Groves I and then watch the mental asylum go in to full overdrive. Rowley, put a blue admin thing by my name and I'll give you a hand controlling them with my polystyrene fist thumbsup

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 9:00 pm

Coxy001 wrote:Truss your longevity of not getting banned is something to behold.

Have to ask you for advice....

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 9:01 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't admire Mayweather either.............

I enjoy watching him fight...

I fail to see what's so funny...

Floyd has fought five top 10 p4pers............So Pedro's post is completely meaningless which is no surprise being the wally he is...

Look for the last time.................How can anybody take you seriously Haz when.............

1. You only paste half a Mayweather article slamming him and not the half praising him !!!!

2. When you think Murray is a better win than Manny would be.....

3. You write threads.....Claiming that a 37 yr old Mayweather beating Maidana shows he's not Top 10 material........

You're a prize pudding !!!!

Ha! Just keep contradicting yourself buddy. You keep us all entertained with your nonsense!

Look at the response to the points I made..

Say's it all..

by Strongback Mon 23 Feb 2015, 9:09 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I don't admire Mayweather either.............

I enjoy watching him fight...

I fail to see what's so funny...

Floyd has fought five top 10 p4pers............So Pedro's post is completely meaningless which is no surprise being the wally he is...

Look for the last time.................How can anybody take you seriously Haz when.............

1. You only paste half a Mayweather article slamming him and not the half praising him !!!!

2. When you think Murray is a better win than Manny would be.....

3. You write threads.....Claiming that a 37 yr old Mayweather beating Maidana shows he's not Top 10 material........

You're a prize pudding !!!!

Ha! Just keep contradicting yourself buddy. You keep us all entertained with your nonsense!

The difference between you and Haz is he knows his stuff and I can't remember him acting the hormonal teenager which seems to be your USP.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 9:11 pm

I've got no time for you..

by hazharrison Mon 23 Feb 2015, 9:38 pm

Rowley wrote:Can I just point out we're not doing this b0llocks for the next ten weeks. A fight like this is good for the forum, it attracts new members and members who have not posted in a while. They are not going to be greeted by the same users having the same arguments and exchanging the same insults they have been exchanging for the last 12 months.

Do you want me to come up with some new insults?

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 23 Feb 2015, 9:39 pm

I'm through on here........

I've changed my mind.........Mayweather is s**te... Haz has convinced me !! Cool

by Strongback Mon 23 Feb 2015, 10:21 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm through on here........

I've changed my mind.........Mayweather is s**te... Haz has convinced me !!

Retirement #6 from Trussy.

Haz pushed him over the line this time. Congrats clap

by milkyboy Mon 23 Feb 2015, 11:11 pm

Do we think mr Mitchell actually knows how many times lamotta beat robinson, or is the grauniad just living down to its reputation. Whichever, a bit embarrassing when positioning yourself as an authority on the subject.

Whatever, as others have said, a regurgitated hash article presented as an alternative take when really it just reflects what most fans and writers in the sport think. I say that because I didn't think it was a particular hatchet job. Just a bit one eyed on places and a dewy nostalgic one at that. For example.. Fine to point out that Leonard had a greater attacking arsenal at his disposal than mayweather, but he didn't have his defence.

Manny not happening 4 or 5 years ago is a huge stain, but mayweather didn't have a Fab Four to compete against. I know some believe he'd have avoided them all... But perhaps in an era of riches he wouldn't have the power to pick and choose his opponents... Not if he wanted the mega bucks fights.

by 3fingers Mon 23 Feb 2015, 11:51 pm

I haven't given this much thought (it's late)...

Was Floyd's two year retirement his way of avoiding someone? If so, who?

by hazharrison Tue 24 Feb 2015, 7:12 am

3fingers wrote:I haven't given this much thought (it's late)...

Was Floyd's two year retirement his way of avoiding someone? If so, who?

"Floyd Mayweather Jr., who is universally considered the best boxer in the sport, announced his retirement Friday. Mayweather leaves as an undefeated welterweight champion (39-0, 25 KOs), saying he did it for his own “personal happiness."

“This decision was not an easy one for me to make as boxing is all I have done since I was a child," Mayweather said in a statement. “However, these past few years have been extremely difficult for me to find the desire and joy to continue in the sport."

Mayweather, 31, was supposed to fight a rematch against Oscar De La Hoya on Sept. 20. He beat De La Hoya in their first fight last year and earned over $30 million in a bout that set records at the gate and on Pay-Per-View.

"Floyd has been a sensational competitor and we've been honored and privileged to telecast all of his significant fights on HBO," said HBO Sports President Ross Greenburg. "We wish him well and appreciate his loyalty and integrity."

In a sport where retirements and comebacks are as routine as jabs, left hooks and straight rights, Mayweather's retirement announcement was met with skepticism.

“What is this retirement No. 4 or No. 5?" said promoter Gary Shaw. “What does that mean? That he couldn’t get enough money for that De La Hoya fight?"

The Mayweather-De La Hoya rematch was viewed as nothing more than a money grab because the first fight was boring and didn’t live up to the hype. Mayweather said money had nothing to do with his decision. In his statement, Mayweather did not say what he would do in retirement. He has appeared on “Dancing With the Stars" and played a role in a “Wrestlemania" show. He was supposed to wave the checkered flag to start the Indianapolis 500, but the death of his stepfather forced him to cancel.

“He has now retired more than Sugar Ray Leonard. How’s he going to retire from boxing? It’s the only thing he knows how to do," said Jeff Mayweather, Mayweather’s uncle. “The only good thing about saying that you’re retiring is that the networks will throw a lot of money at you to come out of retirement for the right fight."

Many people believe that the right fight will be against Miguel Cotto, the WBA welterweight champion. Mayweather has said that Cotto is not well known enough to fight him in a major Pay-Per-View event. If Mayweather stays true to his word, that fight will never happen."

These were the ratings in June '08:

LIGHT-MIDDLEWEIGHT

1: Oscar De La Hoya, 38-5

2: Vernon Forrest, 40-2-0-1, WBC

3: Verno Phillips, 42-11-1, IBF

4: Joachim Alcine (Canada), 30-0, WBA

5: Sergei Dzinziruk* (Ukraine), 35-0, WBO

6: Cory Spinks*, 36-5

7: Ricardo Mayorga (Nicaragua), 28-6-1-1

8: Sergio Martinez* (Argentina), 42-1-1

9: Daniel Santos* (Puerto Rico), 31-3-1

10: Joel Julio (Colombia), 33-1
147lbs/10st 7lbs

WELTERWEIGHT

1: Floyd Mayweather, 39-0, WBC

2: Miguel Cotto (Puerto Rico), 32-0, WBA

3: Shane Mosley, 44-5-0-1

4: Antonio Margarito (Mexico), 36-5-0-1, IBF

5: Carlos Quintana* (Puerto Rico), 25-1, WBO

6: Paul Williams*, 33-1

7: Zab Judah*, 36-5-0-2

8: Luis Collazo*, 28-3

9: Joshua Clottey (Ghana), 34-2-0-1

10: Andre Berto, 21-0

by **88Chris05** Tue 24 Feb 2015, 9:58 am

Cotto, Margarito and Williams are the three names usually chucked at Mayweather for that one-year 'retirement', 3fingers.

Cotto was still unbeaten at the time of Mayweather's announcement with a big reputation - with Pacquiao still fighting at Super-Feather in March 2008 and Lightweight in June of that year, he wasn't yet on the radar for any of the Welters. Mayweather-Cotto was the potential fight that most were salivating over and certainly would have done massive business - not as big as the Mayweather-De la Hoya fight, but certainly bigger than Hatton-Mayweather, which was pretty big in its own right. When Floyd claimed he was packing it in, Cotto was seen by many as the heir apparent to his pound for pound crown (he was consensus top five by this stage and still just twenty-seven years old) and naturally a feeling grew that Mayweather just didn't fancy the challenge, as Cotto was the most attractive fight out there for him, worth a lot of money and had the best record of any possible opponent between 140 and 154 at the time.

Obviously Cotto's reputation took a dent when he lost to Margarito in July that year, so just as the 'Floyd ducked Cotto because he knew Cotto would have beaten him' talk died down a little (but didn't completely disappear), at the same time the idea that Mayweather was running scared of Margarito began to gather pace.

In fairness to Margarito, he had badgered Mayweather for a fight as far back as 2006 and even done a bit of Shannon Briggs-esque stuff to go with it, turning up at a couple of public appearances by Mayweather and getting in his face. But from my memory, nobody was really that bothered at the time, and it's more retrospectively that the idea of Mayweather bricking it at the thought of fighting Margarito became a big thing. In 2006/7 Margarito was really just another Welterweight who could give anyone a fight, but who could probably be relied on to lose to the top, top guys he fought - he lost a decision to Williams in 2007, for instance. All of a sudden, his reputation was massively enhanced by beating Cotto in a pretty big upset a few weeks after Floyd's announcement - out of nowhere he was the Ring Magazine champion at 147 and himself catapulted in to some people's pound for pound lists.

The way he'd taken lumps off a more talented fighter in Cotto and walked through it all to just bulldoze his way to victory gave him a kind of boogey man, indomitable appearance, and that coupled with his sheer size was enough to make the suspicion that Mayweather saw the threat early and thought it wise to retire rather than face such a nightmare opponent grow amongst fans.

On the back of beating Cotto, Margarito did try to goad Mayweather out of retirement for a fight to which Mayweather kept quiet (albeit he kept quiet to everyone, full stop), but six months after beating Cotto he got disgraced in every single way by the Mosley fight, and he left the upper echelons even quicker than he'd gatecrashed them. But regardles of that, the fact that he was the main one of the three who clearly and unequivocally said that he wanted to fight Floyd in the worst possible way, along with the fact that Floyd, for whatever reason, still didn't come back until after Margarito was off the scene, means that to this day some believe Mayweather did everything he could to avoid Tony.

Williams is a strange one. Unlike Margarito, he never really made a clear announcement (at least to my knowledge) that he wanted to fight Mayweather - but a lot of fans decided that, with his similarly huge frame for a Welter and high output, he'd pose big stylistic problems for Floyd. I think this was probably the most unlikely of the three fights for Floyd, as Williams never had those passionate fan bases which Cotto and Margarito had and never really pushed for it. He also dropped his birthday cake by losing out of nowhere to Quintana in early 2008, albeit he hammered him in double quick time in their June rematch, just about the same week that Mayweather claimed he was retiring. A cynic would argue that the timing can't be coincidental and that seeing 'The Punisher' living up to his nickname scared the daylights out of Floyd, I guess, but Cotto was most people's first choice before July 2008, and in beating him Margarito became most people's first choice afterwards - the Williams fight was never really in the same kind of limelight, and by 2009 he'd outgrown 147 lb.

For me, it's only really the Cotto fight which Floyd deserves any real criticism over (I know they eventually fought, but by 2012 it didn't have the same significance). It would have been a PPV blockbuster and would have pitched two elite fighters against each other smack bang in the middle of their primes, while they were both unbeaten. A real pound for pound clash akin to Jones-Toney, for instance. But Margarito and Williams? More just fights that would have been interesting but were hardly essential in my eyes. Fights that just didn't happen, rather than fights where one man ducked out of it.

by captain carrantuohil Tue 24 Feb 2015, 10:23 am

Agree with most of that, Chris. Just a couple of extra observations - my memory is that Cotto-Hatton was being talked up as the fight that many people would like to see back in 08, although Cotto's stock back then was so high that Floyd and almost anyone with a name would have done. Not sure that we were specifically pointing the finger at Floyd for failing to come to terms with Cotto.

As for Margarito, I'm far from certain that anyone really believed that he was anything other than made to measure for Floyd, despite what he did to Cotto. I honestly don't believe that Mayweather was scared of a bloke who even at his best only appeared to have one gear. As you say, it was Williams who was the interesting one. Back then, some saw him as an only slightly cut-price version of Tommy Hearns and one with the tools to damage Mayweather if they had fought. It may be that Floyd saw that one as a risk/no reward proposition, but equally, Williams' inability to decide on which division he should fight in and his carelessness against Quintana at the first time of asking played some role in that one not happening. Hindsight tells us that Floyd would have been a strong favourite in that one, what's more.

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