DING-DONG !! The "Witch" is dead (almost)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31593687

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-chief-executive-roger-lewis-8704861

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/11431004/Wales-Rugby-Union-chief-executive-Roger-Lewis-to-quit-after-World-Cup-following-nine-years-service.html

Wales Rugby Union chief executive Roger Lewis to quit after World Cup

Good bye. I assume he's going to be fulltime with this City Region thing? Martin Thomas (RFU) has just been on the Beeb saying Rog has done a great job etc. We may be on course to pay off the stadium but the regions still arent competitve in Europe and grass roots rugby is in a real mess. Who next?

Pickering on now, 9-10am....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiowales

Has to be some of the best news in a long long longgggggggggg time. Good riddance

I've said in the past month, tomorrow isn't soon enough, but at least there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Got a bit confused when reading a magazine the other day, but I think that I've sorted it out now:

    
        Roger Lewis           A man of unspeakable evil

The best news for Welsh rugby in years. If anyone was in doubt whether the BBC were partners of the WRU, So far, on their phone in, BBC Radio Wales have had:

-Martyn Thomas, Roger's friend who stood up for him on scrumv
-David Pickering, Roger's right hand man in his tenure
-Graham Clutton, a journo who writes the WRU programme notes and who's wife still works for the WRU
-Gerry Toms, the former Millennium Stadium manager

All gushing over how wonderful Lewis was.

Did no one from the grass roots of the game get a say? Very poor from the Beeb.

We need a real rugby man to take his place.

Coleman wrote:Did no one from the grass roots of the game get a say? Very poor from the Beeb.

They had callers in, which seemed a bit staged to me.

In an hour, they had NOT A SINGLE guest or caller that represented professional doemstic rugby in Wales.

So lads/lasses, is this the 'Dream Team' ?

CEO - Gareth Davies (resigns as Chairman)
CHAIRMAN - Gerald Davies

Would that even be allowed? I'd like to see Gerald back but isnt he on the Pro12 board now? I do think both of those would do well together.

PenfroPete wrote:So lads/lasses,  is this the 'Dream Team' ?

CEO - Gareth Davies (resigns as Chairman)
CHAIRMAN - Gerald Davies

I doubt the board and clubs would go for a re-arranging like that. Gareth Davies is doing fine as Chairman. No need to change that.

Coleman wrote:Good bye. I assume he's going to be fulltime with this City Region thing? Martin Thomas (RFU) has just been on the Beeb saying Rog has done a great job etc. We may be on course to pay off the stadium but the regions still arent competitve in Europe and grass roots rugby is in a real mess. Who next?

Do you mean Martyn Thomas (ex-RFU)? The guy involved when Andrew sacked Ashton, hired Johnson on no coaching experience, in charge of the RFU during the WC2011 when details private interviews with players were leaked to the press, threatened leagel action to stop a report by a Judge being made public; the claims in the report were later pulled back after an independent review showed there was no direct eveidence of misconduct (after several 'witnesses' refused to speak to the independent group).

He thinks Lewis did a good job? Must be a winner

HammerofThunor wrote:

Coleman wrote:Good bye. I assume he's going to be fulltime with this City Region thing? Martin Thomas (RFU) has just been on the Beeb saying Rog has done a great job etc. We may be on course to pay off the stadium but the regions still arent competitve in Europe and grass roots rugby is in a real mess. Who next?

Do you mean Martyn Thomas (ex-RFU)? The guy involved when Andrew sacked Ashton, hired Johnson on no coaching experience, in charge of the RFU during the WC2011 when details private interviews with players were leaked to the press, threatened leagel action to stop a report by a Judge being made public; the claims in the report were later pulled back after an independent review showed there was no direct eveidence of misconduct (after several 'witnesses' refused to speak to the independent group).

He thinks Lewis did a good job? Must be a winner

He is Roger Lewis' personal friend. He appeared on scrumv defending him too. BBC Wales are shameless in their bias towards their commercial partners. People who pay their license money should be complaining.

The Saint wrote:We need a real rugby man to take his place.

Not as chief exec in my opinion.  We need a business/commercial person, like Lewis, just better!  And not let them get so involved in the rugby side of things.  If we get a rugby person as chief exec then generally that means little or no business acumen or experience and suddenly we're millions in debt.  At least, financially (which is what Rog was brought in for), we're in a much better position now than we were.

Leave the 'rugby man' for the chairman position IMO.  Or change the remit of the chief exec to purely commercial and keep their hands of that rugby side (if that's at all possible?!).

We can't get someone like Lewis but better, he'll be another Lewis imo!

I'm not a fan or "hater" of Lewis. True I didn't like allot of his decisions, but there is one thing you cant accuse him of, and that is lack of "business acumen". As others have said, we need a business guy in this role, not a committee member who played rugby. Look where that has got us in the past. If we take the emotion out of the debate and look at what we have know, there is a lot that Lewis has presided over. For one argument, we are know on the way to a form of central contract, which in the long term will benefit Welsh rugby at both international and regional level.

As for grass roots rugby.. I'm also upset that it seems to be suffering. But that is where the business head of Lewis comes in. If you where the chairman of a large company (use Tesco as an example, although with recent press I know I'll be picked up for it.. but the example still stands..).. So say you where the chairman of Tesco and you have small stores in small run down towns, not making any money and in fact costing you money to keep them afloat. What do you do... yep.. close them. You cant be sentimental in business... No that's no different to grass roots rugby. We have no end of small rugby sides, burning money and not keeping themselves afloat. Should the WRU keep bailing them out, at the risk of putting the whole in the red. Now before I get slated for that... The business man will say NO.. Now the Rugby Man will say YES, we need these clubs to develop.. Both are true, but only one will grow. This is why we need a business man in this role and not a rugby man..

BUT.. that business man needs a good team, and one of his team, needs to rethink the approach, so that grass roots rugby can grow itself.

... that is a totally different debate, and if I had the answer to it, I'd apply for the job myself...

But back to the topic..

I think Lewis had to go, he's gone as far as he can and he knows that. Hence the timing of his departure, after the world cup. I for one wish him well, not good riddance.. I just hope we don't go backwards in the choice of his successor.

I just hope his successor gets rid of Friday night games

The Saint wrote:We can't get someone like Lewis but better, he'll be another Lewis imo!

Oh come on Saint!

That's far too early to be getting the excuses in.

I pity the poor divil who gets the job. He'll be blamed for being the wrong guy after his very first acceptance speech. "He spent way too long thanking his lovely f**king wife, his three f**king kids and the f**king house trained dog!!!! Get on with it! We need detail numnuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Regions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What are you going to do with them!"

Just had a perishing thought actually.

The Lone Ranger will be back on his White Stallion....

Dyvid Fair-Dinkum Moffett!

"Look you blokes, I'm back see!!!!!!  Back from the palm trees, the sea, sand, Barbie and beautiful sheilas, to tell yis I had a callin' from my conscience that yis need me!  And because I love yis all lots in me heart!"

Oh there'll be a ton of fun at the end of the year.

I cannot see Moffit coming back. I really hope not at least. Richard Holland has been very good for the Blues. I wouldn't hate him taking the job.

No9 wrote:I'm not a fan or "hater" of Lewis. True I didn't like allot of his decisions, but there is one thing you cant accuse him of, and that is lack of "business acumen". As others have said, we need a business guy in this role, not a committee member who played rugby. Look where that has got us in the past. If we take the emotion out of the debate and look at what we have know, there is a lot that Lewis has presided over. For one argument, we are know on the way to a form of central contract, which in the long term will benefit Welsh rugby at both international and regional level.

As for grass roots rugby.. I'm also upset that it seems to be suffering. But that is where the business head of Lewis comes in. If you where the chairman of a large company (use Tesco as an example, although with recent press I know I'll be picked up for it.. but the example still stands..).. So say you where the chairman of Tesco and you have small stores in small run down towns, not making any money and in fact costing you money to keep them afloat. What do you do... yep.. close them. You cant be sentimental in business... No that's no different to grass roots rugby. We have no end of small rugby sides, burning money and not keeping themselves afloat. Should the WRU keep bailing them out, at the risk of putting the whole in the red. Now before I get slated for that... The business man will say NO.. Now the Rugby Man will say YES, we need these clubs to develop.. Both are true, but only one will grow. This is why we need a business man in this role and not a rugby man..

BUT.. that business man needs a good team, and one of his team, needs to rethink the approach, so that grass roots rugby can grow itself.

... that is a totally different debate, and if I had the answer to it, I'd apply for the job myself...

But back to the topic..

I think Lewis had to go, he's gone as far as he can and he knows that. Hence the timing of his departure, after the world cup. I for one wish him well, not good riddance.. I just hope we don't go backwards in the choice of his successor.

I just hope his successor gets rid of Friday night games

This is an astonishing post. Especially the bit highlighted. I am genuinely taken aback and quite alarmed that there are people who think like this.

The goal of tesco's is to make money. The goal of the WRU is to improve Welsh rugby and it's clubs. And indeed the very clubs that you speak of, indirectly run the Union. They are the ones who vote on the issues. Yet you just want to run them into the ground.

That's quite a remarkable point of view.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No9 wrote:I'm not a fan or "hater" of Lewis. True I didn't like allot of his decisions, but there is one thing you cant accuse him of, and that is lack of "business acumen". As others have said, we need a business guy in this role, not a committee member who played rugby. Look where that has got us in the past. If we take the emotion out of the debate and look at what we have know, there is a lot that Lewis has presided over. For one argument, we are know on the way to a form of central contract, which in the long term will benefit Welsh rugby at both international and regional level.

As for grass roots rugby.. I'm also upset that it seems to be suffering. But that is where the business head of Lewis comes in. If you where the chairman of a large company (use Tesco as an example, although with recent press I know I'll be picked up for it.. but the example still stands..).. So say you where the chairman of Tesco and you have small stores in small run down towns, not making any money and in fact costing you money to keep them afloat. What do you do... yep.. close them. You cant be sentimental in business... No that's no different to grass roots rugby. We have no end of small rugby sides, burning money and not keeping themselves afloat. Should the WRU keep bailing them out, at the risk of putting the whole in the red. Now before I get slated for that... The business man will say NO.. Now the Rugby Man will say YES, we need these clubs to develop.. Both are true, but only one will grow. This is why we need a business man in this role and not a rugby man..

BUT.. that business man needs a good team, and one of his team, needs to rethink the approach, so that grass roots rugby can grow itself.

... that is a totally different debate, and if I had the answer to it, I'd apply for the job myself...

But back to the topic..

I think Lewis had to go, he's gone as far as he can and he knows that. Hence the timing of his departure, after the world cup. I for one wish him well, not good riddance.. I just hope we don't go backwards in the choice of his successor.

I just hope his successor gets rid of Friday night games

This is an astonishing post. Especially the bit highlighted. I am genuinely taken aback and quite alarmed that there are people who think like this.

The goal of tesco's is to make money. The goal of the WRU is to improve Welsh rugby and it's clubs. And indeed the very clubs that you speak of, indirectly run the Union. They are the ones who vote on the issues. Yet you just want to run them into the ground.

That's quite a remarkable point of view.

I never said that... I said that from a businessview point, they are not pulling their weight.. I also said that from a RUGBY man's view they are needed to develop the game..

Whether we like or not, we live in a commercial world, and as such, if we want to see Welsh rugby in another 25+ years, we have to make hard commercial decisions, and as such we need a hard nosed business man at the helm, NOT a "committee boy" who played rugby. That may require the WRU to take a harder line with the grass root clubs. I'm not suggesting they are left to rot, but they need to have better business plans to make them commercially viable. Currently most "grass roots" rugby I know, are run by the "committee" and have as much commercial nonce as my dear old granny did... They have to evolve.

I also said, that the new man would need a good team, and I would hope he'd get someone to revitalise grass roots rugby and put plans together to make them more viable...

You need to read my post in the whole, not just pick up on one point...

The goal of Tescos is to make the individual 'small stores' make money.  

They can't - as a company - subsidise the small stores for too long because that's bad business and not viable. They would lose competitiveness in a viciously unmerciful commercial world.
The WRU may indeed want to improve welsh rugby and its clubs but it seems everyone wants everyone else to realise this is now a living and breathing Professional world where you have to be able to survive in marketing terms or you have to sacrifice yourself to the lack of market interest.

So........... the WRU have to live in the real world of Professional rugby, whether they want to or not.  We've been through a year full of chat on 606 about how inevitable it all is.  Make money for yourself or die - no free lunches anymore.

The conclusion - the WRU and all Unions are now businesses - struggling to survive in a market economy and having to make the same business decisions to stay afloat.

That brings us back to subsidies - when they are viable and when they aren't.

Spot on Fly... and why at the helm we need a business man who's hobby is rugby, rather than a rugby man who's hobby is business.

No9 wrote:

I never said that... I said that from a businessview point, they are not pulling their weight.. I also said that from a RUGBY man's view they are needed to develop the game..

Whether we like or not, we live in a commercial world, and as such, if we want to see Welsh rugby in another 25+ years, we have to make hard commercial decisions, and as such we need a hard nosed business man at the helm, NOT a "committee boy" who played rugby. That may require the WRU to take a harder line with the grass root clubs. I'm not suggesting they are left to rot, but they need to have better business plans to make them commercially viable. Currently most "grass roots" rugby I know, are run by the "committee" and have as much commercial nonce as my dear old granny did... They have to evolve.

I also said, that the new man would need a good team, and I would hope he'd get someone to revitalise grass roots rugby and put plans together to make them more viable...

You need to read my post in the whole, not just pick up on one point...

No. Just no.

You're thinking exactly the same way as Roger Lewis does. Top down management. Make sure the 15 players in red are doing well then everybody will think it's ok. It is MASSIVE short termism.

Sport is built from the bottom up. Youngsters and community sport as a huge base that drives and filters upwards and pays dividends. Anyone who knows anything about the Belgian football association will attest to this. Long term goals, solid structures from bottom to top.

"Taking a harder line with grass roots rugby" as you put it, is totally the opposite way to go. They are the clubs where these players start. Not the other way around.

In the old amateur days maybe.. But not in the professional era.

Rugby is no longer a game, its a business, and at the top level BIG business. Business have to be self sufficient, and generate money. If it doesn't it wont survive.

You may not like it, but its fact.

No9 wrote:In the old amateur days maybe.. But not in the professional era.

Rugby is no longer a game, its a business, and at the top level BIG business. Business have to be self sufficient, and generate money. If it doesn't it wont survive.

You may not like it, but its fact.

This fact though, is not mutually exclusive from the facts I posted above.

Not a Welsh man my self. but as Roger Lewis been really that bad for Wales?

Han't he reduced the debt on the Milleninum stadium surely that cannot be bad for the profits of Wales rugby can it?

Without grassroots teams the game is dead. Our schools arent playing any more (at least by me they're not). By the time players get to college league they've all been picked up by regions and don't play for their clubs any more. Not enough youth players go forward to play senior rugby as it is. Unless we get more money in to junior clubs then the talent for the regions will dry up somewhere along the line. Roger didn't understand this. We need someone who does.

majesticimperialman wrote: Not a Welsh man my self. but as Roger Lewis been really that bad for Wales?

Han't he reduced the debt on the Milleninum stadium surely that cannot be bad for the profits of Wales rugby can it?

Jesus! This place does throw up heart stoppers now and then.....

Maybe nobody should be blaming rugby or Rodgers................ but football.  That little few billion quid show that's on 24 hours a f**king day?

Maybe that's sucking up some of the grass-roots moisture?   Oh and the Netscape FaceTwitter world maybe dries up a few more grassroots.  Oh and omnibus editions of LIVE Eastender whodoneits!

The question that nobody is asking is why does a small to medium sized business of just £50M turnover need a Chairman and CEO?????

Save the CEO's salary of £300k per annum which can be better invested in grass roots rugby and let Gareth Davies run the show.

Seagultaf wrote:The question that nobody is asking is why does a small to medium sized business of just £50M turnover need a Chairman and CEO?????

Save the CEO's salary of £300k per annum which can be better invested in grass roots rugby and let Gareth Davies run the show.

CEOs always gotta get £300K. It's not dignified not to give 'em the going rate for leather seat sitting. Don't be bold.

BTW, you think you got it bad. We had a Charity scandal a year or so ago where the charity collected something like 30K a year from donations but the CEO still pocketed £300K. Now that's creative accounting with a smile.

Chunky Norwich wrote:

No9 wrote:In the old amateur days maybe.. But not in the professional era.

Rugby is no longer a game, its a business, and at the top level BIG business. Business have to be self sufficient, and generate money. If it doesn't it wont survive.

You may not like it, but its fact.

This fact though, is not mutually exclusive from the facts I posted above.

I never said it was... I said its a commercial business and as such, you cannot let it burn money without return.. Perhaps you'd explain how you'd fund it better, without breaking the WRU bank.

Coleman wrote:Without grassroots teams the game is dead. Our schools arent playing any more (at least by me they're not). By the time players get to college league they've all been picked up by regions and don't play for their clubs any more. Not enough youth players go forward to play senior rugby as it is. Unless we get more money in to junior clubs then the talent for the regions will dry up somewhere along the line. Roger didn't understand this. We need someone who does.

A good point.. So where do we get this money from.. It has to be generated somewhere. Are you saying the WRU should just keep dishing out monies to the junior clubs without any return on their investment. And these junior clubs are unlikely to get a player into the international scene, without them playing for a region, so really the junior clubs are developing regional players. As the regions are business in their own right, as the argument over their own destiny tried to establish, maybe its the regions who should be investing in the clubs, not the WRU. Actually, I thought that was the intended model, the WRU funding grass roots rugby THROUGH the regions... But funnily enough the regions don't want to do that do they. They are only interested in their own finances. When (apart from the Ospreys playing LV games in Bridgend) did the regions LAST go out and promote the game outside of their own grounds.

This debate will run and run...

So my last word on this, is I'm NOT AGAINST investment in grass root rugby. In fact the total opposite. However, what I have said, like it or not, we are in a commercial world, and if we cant make the books balance, we have to make hard decisions. I don't think these decisions can be made by a WELSH RUGBY FAN... It has to be made by a hard nosed business man, and he will be crucified for it, one way or other.

As my first post, I wasn't a fan or "hater" of Lewis. He had a job to do, and he did it well, even if you dont agree with his decisions, he had the "spheres" to make the calls. We need someone else with the same level of business nonce... As I said earlier, we need a business man who's hobby is rugby, rather than a rugby man who's hobby is business.

We have a while yet before Lewis departs, and this debate will go on and on.. So, I'm just going to concentrate on the France game, as that should be the priority for us fans this week... cheers.

PenfroPete wrote:So lads/lasses,  is this the 'Dream Team' ?

CEO - Gareth Davies (resigns as Chairman)
CHAIRMAN - Gerald Davies

Both Carmarthenshire born and both very Cardiff rugby. It could work.

Seagultaf wrote:The question that nobody is asking is why does a small to medium sized business of just £50M turnover need a Chairman and CEO?????

Save the CEO's salary of £300k per annum which can be better invested in grass roots rugby and let Gareth Davies run the show.

Good call. You've convinced me.
Also is Gatland going too and will it cost?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31607780

You need a chairman to look after the interests of the the shareholders (clubs/supporters). That is their job.

I think the IRFU do it well - IRFU chairman is rotated every year so no one gets too entrenched in the job. Philip Browne (CEO) is not a rugby man. He was a rower so he has no affiliation to any rugby club.

Then there is Tom Grace (hon treasurer) and former rugby player and one of the leading liquidators & management consultants in Ireland who holds the purse strings very, very tight.

Sin é wrote:You need a chairman to look after the interests of the the shareholders (clubs/supporters). That is their job.

Like Pickering then?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Sin é wrote:You need a chairman to look after the interests of the the shareholders (clubs/supporters). That is their job.

Like Pickering then?

Pickering was an executive chairman (paid and there for yonks). Turn it into an non-executive role and only cover expenses.

Sin é wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Sin é wrote:You need a chairman to look after the interests of the the shareholders (clubs/supporters). That is their job.

Like Pickering then?

Pickering was an executive chairman (paid and there for yonks). Turn it into an non-executive role and only cover expenses.

Including a £90k Porsche or not?

Personally I don't think this is good news at all.
He's got the Welsh game in order, he isn't responsible for the mess that the regions are in, they have pretty much wasted all the money that has been given to them and mismanaged themselves badly, and as for blaming him for grass roots rugby... is it really his job to make sure children are taking up the game of rugby? or is it actually down to the clubs themselves to entice local children to their clubs and teach them the game?

People have complained so much and he has made the effort to address their concerns, he has contacted schools and offered to pay half of a coaches salary so rugby can be played, while helping local clubs form closer ties with clubs.

He has also helped set up help for clubs where they could get rugby balls, tackle pads and other useful things to help the clubs out, while most clubs couldn't even be bothered to fill out the forms for it.

Anyone who thinks the ills of Welsh rugby have suddenly been cured are deluding themselves.

Shifty wrote:Personally I don't think this is good news at all.  

There's always one and you're it.

Shifty wrote:

Anyone who thinks the ills of Welsh rugby have suddenly been cured are deluding themselves.  

It's a start at least, shewerly? Openness and transparency is the way forward imho.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Sin é wrote:You need a chairman to look after the interests of the the shareholders (clubs/supporters). That is their job.

Like Pickering then?

Pickering was an executive chairman (paid and there for yonks). Turn it into an non-executive role and only cover expenses.

Including a £90k Porsche or not?

Trimmings. Trimmings. Let's not get bogged down in a few trimmings and a bit of bling.

Changing 1 person will not fix all the issues in Welsh rugby but at least it will remove the biggest obstacle of the 2 sides not been willing to compromise. Whoever comes in has a clean slate with all parties and needs to stick to discussing things professionaly rather than using old media friends to try to force issues in public. Roger Lewis IMHO has done more damage to the image of rugby in Wales than any one else in its history, good riddance to a publicity hungry politician. A simple accountant could of managed the books better.

2ndtimeround wrote:Changing 1 person will not fix all the issues in Welsh rugby but at least it will remove the biggest obstacle of the 2 sides not been willing to compromise. Whoever comes in has a clean slate with all parties and needs to stick to discussing things professionaly rather than using old media friends to try to force issues in public. Roger Lewis IMHO has done more damage to the image of rugby in Wales than any one else in its history, good riddance to a publicity hungry politician. A simple accountant could of managed the books better.

The keystone is a gonna. No doubt others will topple.

2ndtimeround wrote:Changing 1 person will not fix all the issues in Welsh rugby but at least it will remove the biggest obstacle of the 2 sides not been willing to compromise. Whoever comes in has a clean slate with all parties and needs to stick to discussing things professionaly rather than using old media friends to try to force issues in public. Roger Lewis IMHO has done more damage to the image of rugby in Wales than any one else in its history, good riddance to a publicity hungry politician. A simple accountant could of managed the books better.

Wasn't the WRU in a terrible financial state when Moffat took off and Lewis was landed in a right mess to clean up?

Not to scare anyone, but I heard from a reliable source the incantations to resurrect the Lewis Phoenix have already begun.

I posted an article last October, trust me, Rodger the dodger is not finished with rugby yet:-

https://www.606v2.com/t56134-a-new-chairman-for-the-pro12

I can see Roger having something to do with the Pro12 next year.