Dear Vern

Dear MR Cotter

You are still in my opinion the saviour of all things Scottish but even in your infinite wisdoms I beg you to listen to me. We can beat England and Ireland but it will only be possible if:

1. For the love of God pick the two "Killer Bs" with testicles
2. Make one of them captain
3. If you insist on playing a traditional Scottish way pick a traditional scottish scrum-half and by that I mean cusiter or Hidalgo-Clyne. Laidlaw is too slow.
4. Accept that Sean Lamont is too old for an international winger. Fife, Brown or even Visser would have been better
5. Only ever play a specialist 10 at 10 otherwise there is no cohesion.
6. Play Denton at 8, and tell him to get a short, back and sides.
7. Slap anyone who gave away a penalty today. Twice.
8. Don't let anything Johnson does or say influence you.
9. Beg Hines to come out of retirement for 3 games
10. Shout at them
11. A lot
12. Get up them and in their face. Manic aggression. We've been too passive


Vern if you somehow read this, pick this team:

1. Grant
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Hines
5. Gray
6 Brown
7. Barclay
8. Denton
9. Cusiter
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Dickinson
17. Cross
18. Brown
19. Hamilton
20. Harley
21. Hidalgo-Clyne
22. Scott
23. Brown


I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt we'll call it a blip and also acknowledge the fact we have no fly-half and Clancy was in place

Grant doesn't deserve a starting spot by any stretch of the imagination. Cusiter likewise.

Sounds like a regression to go for that side, looks like what was tried and failed years ago.

Grant? are you having a laugh, the guy can't scrummage.

Horne actually played well

It wasn't Horne's performance that was the issue it was the lack of direction, he played like a centre not a fly-half. We have better players than Italy and we needed someone to steer the ship for us and no one did. In the crucial 8,9,10 battle, Parisse was playing a different sport than Beattie, Laidlaw was too slow, Haimonna (can't be bothered to look up his name) is a dreadful rugby player but they avoided that using McLean whereas Horne played as a centre. I'm not blaming him it's instinct, I play centre and have been asked to fill in at fly-half and it does not work well. Also why they didn't ask Hogg to kick that last kick I don't know. You can't tell a player he's not reliable enough to take kick-offs and then turn round at the crucial moment in the game and expect him to be infallible.

But lets maintain reality we were down to our fourth choice fly-half, can someone tell me who our 4th choice fly-half was between 2006 and 2013?

The single biggest step forward this Scotland team can take is to drop Greig Laidlaw. Followed shortly by Beattie. 2 players who should form the senior leadership group, and who have been utterly headless in all 3 games.

I'm not sure I agree that the solution now is a massive U turn and the selection of Barclay. I'm even more sure that selecting Hines isn't the solution to anything.

I would however bring Brown back in and make him captain. He would have a huge point to prove, and the man is a leader. Laidlaw doesn't have it in him. We are woefully lacking in direction on the field. Stick with the majority of the younger players in the squad and give them some proper leadership. We now have nothing to lose, so we have to give SHC his chance to start. What would we gain by picking Cusiter now? By all means bench him but he isn't the future, whereas Sam may very well be.

We need to stop talking about the future and development and all that crap for the next 8 months or so; this is a World Cup year, the players who played in 2011 are the ones who routinely underperform. Ross Ford and Sean Lamont should be the fall guys for Scotland's failures over the last 10 years not Brown and Barclay yet they are strolling unchallenged to 100 caps. Ross Ford has at least improved recently but Sean Lamont's ability to say the right thing but play the opposite way is astounding. He's 34 years of age, and a winger the only other winter that age I can think of was Shane Williams and he was a double lions tourist who'd won two six nations, Lamont has been a brilliant servant to Scottish rugby who wears his heart on his sleeve but he simply is not good enough anymore. Barclay should not be punished for Scotland's failures, Cowan is older than Barclay and when Barclay was teaching the springboks how a ruck works Cowan was playing for the Cornish pirates.

I repeat this is a World Cup year, forget development for the next 8 months, Brown and Barclay are the two best players in their positions from Scotland. Why are we hamstringing ourselves by fallouts from Scott Johnson?

Brown- I can agree should be in the squad. Barclay however has had to move to a inferior club to look good. Don't get me wrong he is a talented footballer, but has had a bad attitude for a long while. Ross Rennie showed him up all the way from teen groups and was unlucky with injury, which prevented him being the main man in that shirt Also for all this 'killer bees' stuff what did the 3 members actually achieve to have this name? Did they sort out a potential picnic problem? Or were they part of a mediocre mid table team.

I have ever seen anything as embarrassing as when clownshoes asked to talk to the Scotland captain and our boys didn't know who that was.

The rugby team should be ashamed of themselves, and whilst I want Cotter to stay, he needs to phone kelly brown and John Barclay right now with an engraved apology.

Horne will be devastated. He shouldnt have missed the kick, but he should never have been put in the position of having to take the kick, when he hadn't been kicking from tee or penalty all day.
The leadership point is painfully valid and accurate. We looked disjointed and rudderless.
SHC should have been put on for Laidlaw at 50 mins, it was obvious that plan A wasnt working, and we needed an injection of urgency. Bringing him on so late in the game was crass management. Vern's team management was poor there. Yes, we have been shown up with the 10 and 8 absences, but the players are sorely to blame as a group for their lack of leadership and What appeared to be a 'we only need to turn up' attitude. To lose a score directly after scoring is poor effort, to do it twice in a row is rank amateur. The players need to look at their own professionalism and sort it out.
I'm not convinced by Cowan, and Beattie is nowhere near his best or what we need. Ashe needs to be brought in, Barclay is needed, and I think SHC needs to start. Russell too should be back, but Horne's running game was good. Little changes will make a big difference.
But, VC has a lot of explaining to do regarding lack of leadership and communication.

Anglobraveheart wrote:Horne will be devastated. He shouldnt have missed the kick, but he should never have been put in the position of having to take the kick, when he hadn't been kicking from tee or penalty all day.
The leadership point is painfully valid and accurate. We looked disjointed and rudderless.
SHC should have been put on for Laidlaw at 50 mins, it was obvious that plan A wasnt working, and we needed an injection of urgency. Bringing him on so late in the game was crass management. Vern's team management was poor there. Yes, we have been shown up with the 10 and 8 absences, but the players are sorely to blame as a group for their lack of leadership and What appeared to be a 'we only need to turn up' attitude. To lose a score directly after scoring is poor effort, to do it twice in a row is rank amateur. The players need to look at their own professionalism and sort it out.
I'm not convinced by Cowan, and  Beattie is nowhere near his best or what we need. Ashe needs to be brought in, Barclay is needed, and I think SHC needs to start. Russell too should be back, but Horne's running game was good. Little changes will make a big difference.
But, VC has a lot of explaining to do regarding lack of leadership and communication.

Horne was given the kick as he was a left footed kicker and he should have made it. He went for to much and it looks like he pulled a muscle in the process. He is a professional rugby player playing FH in an international. He should not have missed it, end of.

Laidlaw was poor, has been in all three games, time to make the change now. He really is the biggest problem in the team and because he is the captain as well, there is a reluctance to hook him. Let SHC start the next game and put Cus on the bench for the experienced head to come on if needed.

The problem in the back row was not Cowan, who has played well all tournament. It was Beattie and to some extent Harley, who has not looked the player we know he can be. I do wish everyone would stop harking back to Barclay and Brown though, as if everything would be fine if they were playing. In case you have not forgotten, we were crap most of the time they were playing for Scotland as well. There really is no point in trying to role back the clock. We do have better options than Beattie, who I think may well have played his last international game. Harley to probably needs to take a step back to find his form. I could easily see both Ashe and Denton playing in the next game.

We have lost the tournament now, likely to come last, so at least aught to be able to play with a bit more freedom and less pressure. The expectation of a win killed us on Saturday, maybe now that is lifted again we can get back to basics.

We do need a decent 7, and Cowan for me isnt the answer. There's not a lot of choice though.
I agree about Horne, but, he should never have been asked to take the kick.
Gray for captain perhaps?

The Horne kick was a leadership issue and poor decision making. There wasn't much time left, so we didn't need a long kick. Halfway or 10m line and recycled possession was all that was required. It was very unlucky that cramp or a muscle injury struck during the kick, but we naively got carried away in that moment. We have a lot of promising younger players, but lack quality leaders and decision makers. Brown should be recalled. Harley isn't consistent enough yet. I think his line-out prowess has accelerated his involvement and keeping him in the side when his form doesn't merit it.

BigGee wrote:I do wish everyone would stop harking back to Barclay and Brown though, as if everything would be fine if they were playing. In case you have not forgotten, we were crap most of the time they were playing for Scotland as well..

True enough but I certainly don't remember us getting screwed so hard at the breakdown. Discipline wasn't an issue back then either.

The penalty and yellow card count has been shocking in the last 3 games.

Vern is sounding a bit peed off
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31678032

I also seen on twitter that one of the coaching team decided to kick the s h i t out of the door to the coaching team box.

cakeordeath wrote:Vern is sounding a bit peed off
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31678032

I also seen on twitter that one of the coaching team decided to kick the s h i t out of the door to the coaching team box.

Key phrase : "We need to change things during the game. That's part of the growth experience. There's a number of young players out there.". I.e. on-field leadership was lacking. Which is down to the coach, in that he picks the captain and 'leadership group'.

Anglobraveheart wrote:We do need a decent 7, and Cowan for me isnt the answer. There's not a lot of choice though.
I agree about Horne, but, he should never have been asked to take the kick.
Gray for captain perhaps?

I think that's slightly unfair on Cowan personally, he's been the best player in Scotland's back row the whole 6N including Harley who hasn't consistently been at the level he should be. I don't agree that Barclay would contribute more than Cowan who works extremely hard and makes quite a few turnovers and he looks like he cares unlike Beattie who has been pretty dire. And remember Barclay couldn't always get in to the Glasgow team ahead of Fusaro.
The current problems with the team are not caused by the no7, several other positions need changing before Cowan.

MacKnocked-on wrote:

Anglobraveheart wrote:We do need a decent 7, and Cowan for me isnt the answer. There's not a lot of choice though.
I agree about Horne, but, he should never have been asked to take the kick.
Gray for captain perhaps?

I think that's slightly unfair on Cowan personally, he's been the best player in Scotland's back row the whole 6N including Harley who hasn't consistently been at the level he should be. I don't agree that Barclay would contribute more than Cowan who works extremely hard and makes quite a few turnovers and he looks like he cares unlike Beattie who has been pretty dire. And remember Barclay couldn't always get in to the Glasgow team ahead of Fusaro.  
The current problems with the team are not caused by the no7, several other positions need changing before Cowan.

Agree, if you are going to focus on the back row then the other two positions are the problems and at least there may be some solutions to them. Brown is an option at 6, no doubt, as are Denton and Ashe in both positions. Probably a bit early to make any judgement on Watson as a potential international player on the basis of that game. You get the feeling that we will need some bruisers against the English, who will be more formidable than Italy up front. He may be a luxury on the bench that we can't afford in that game. I would like to see him again at some point though.

It's really hard, this. Really hard.

We all know where the problems are - it's quite another thing to come up with a meaningful solution to these given where we currently are with injuries. I should go on record right now and say that I wasn't able to watch the match, but having read all of the match reports and having watched this shower for about 30 years now, I really don't think that I need to.

1. Leadership - the old rules stick. Your captain has to be nailed on in his position and clearly be a leader of men. He cannot be retiscent, he cannot lose control, he must be a diplomat, he cannot be naive, he must be on the field for the whole 80. Whom do we really have that satisfies these criteria? Only Jonny Gray, Rob Harley and Alex Dunbar spring to mind. This is the most serious issue by far - none of us should be in any doubt about that. It beggars belief that nobody knew whom the captain was when Frodo and Mister Chinhook came off.

2. Pack - horribly underpowered apparently. You can call Richie Gray whatever names you like but a guy that large and that mobile is very, very rare. Swinson played very badly in the last 6 Nations as I remember it vividly but his (apparently) big shift here gives Vern a real headache. So difficult in a world cup year to decide whether to haul back a big unit like Hamilton (stodgy, big lump, no cardio to last more than a hour) or just let the likes of Toolis loose and tell him to have a good time out there.

3. Strategy - so very very much will be corrected by Russell coming back. I have watched Horne take the ball miles behind the gainline for Glasgow for years and I can picture it exactly. Russell takes it flat and troubles defences - again, so very rare for a Scottish 10.

But the biggest test of Cotter's tenure so far is whether he drops Laidlaw. In a decade long turnaround, we are now in this strange position where we are more likely to win by getting the ball to our backline. We have to realise this. With that in mind, it makes absolutely no sense to have a 9 who cannot provide quick service. We have other goalkicking options now. We don't need Laidlaw and he is now part of the problem. With the tournament gone, what does Cotter have to lose by bringing in Sam Clyne and telling him to do his thing?

Cusiter's form is unproven but Clyne's is - we all know that he is playing well. The thought of Frodo crabbing along as Danny Care tries hard not to snicker is horrible.

My god, how we have missed Maitland. I hope that all of the MaitHaters (a fashionable pastime, recently) have taken note - criticise the guy for not scoring, but his error count is very, very low and neither Visser nor Lamont is a more complete player by any stretch.

I hope that Cotter now feels that the pressure is off and he can experiment.

Right, time for a spot of positivity.

Think back to 2010, New Zealand are playing Australia in Tokyo & are ahead by a slender margin going into the final minutes. Stephen Donald fails to find touch when clearing his lines & Australia come back score a try & win the game.

Donald takes a lot of the blame for his failure to find touch & disappears. Flash forward a year and he kicks the winning points in the World Cup final.
The symmetry is clear, role on October!

So for me the main issues are leadership and a pack with no bite. The solution is Kelly Brown

KB will be in the mix for the next game, but do you make him captain when at the end of the day, once JS, Denton (who played well today in Cardiff) and Ashe (still a bit rusty) are all back up and running and if Harley gets his form back, he may well not merit his place in the side. I imagine that was one of the big problems with picking him in the first place. He is in no way the future.

I hope VC experiments a bit now as well, there is nothing to lose here. For what it is worth I would probably go with JG as the skipper. He really is someone that the team could be built around.

Happy for it to be Ickle Jon for now.
It's going to be Mr Joshua Zac Strauss with the armband in September in any event.

( )

01. Dickinson
02. Kelso Fartface
03. Murray
04. J Gray
05. Toolis
06. Brown
07. Cowan
08. Denton

09. Hidalgo-Clyne
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

I'm more excited about that team already.

No idea if it has any basis in reality, given injuries and coaching mindset, but that's whom I would play against England.

I wouldn't make Gray skipper - he's got a lot of pressure on him already calling the lineout, and let's not forget how young he is.

Couldn't help see him yesterday and think he looked jaded and not his usual self.

A few key things for me:


- leadership

Apparently the ref asked who the Scotland captain was late on yesterday, and no one knew. We have Laidlaw and Ford and that's it - neither of which are ideal captains. We were seriously lacking leadership again yesterday.

- power

If we were done up front against the Italians just think what will happen against England! Hamilton and Denton need to start, Toolis and Ashe on the bench.

We used to have a good pack - coincidence it has gone downhill since the Welsh forwards coach took over? He's certainly not covered himself in glory.

- Discipline

3 games, 38 penalties, 3 yellows. Not good enough. I don't think toolis and Watson could have done much else for their yellows, the ref was itching to give them, but it is a real problem.

We're not going to win games giving that many penalties away.

Dickinson did not play well on Saturday, I can see Grant starting. The way Sutherland is playing and he was 24th man, he won't be to far off the bench either. I would give it a go, we know what Dickinson can do and you do still worry if he is a strong enough scrummager. Sutherland dealt with Adam Jones very effectively today and was good about the park.

Swinson actually looked like he was one of the few forwards up for it on Saturday, it may be hard to drop him. Toolis deserves more of a chance than he got though, was only just on and had to take one for the team. I suspect we will see them both. I hope we don't go back to big Jim. They said he was injured, but benched for Sarries yesterday. Like a few of the old guard, I think he has had his day.

Denton is surely going to be a shoe in, he played well today. Ashe looked rusty, but he has been out longer. Lets see how he goes next week, another game may make a difference for him. Harley definitely needs a rest. Do we go for KB, the 600 million dollar question. My feeling is that if Ashe is fit, then he plays. He may or may not be though.

Maitland is not going to be fit, Lamont needs to be dropped. Who do we play there. Visser scored a good try today but do we risk him defensively against a rampant English backline. It does seem that we are one winger away from having a very good backline. We just need someone else to step up. Fife still blows hot and cold as well. I have to say that I don't know the answer to this one.

Would be harsh to drop Dickinson - he's generally been one of our better players, plus Grant didn't impress yesterday.

Lamont certainly needs to go though - big mistake picking him yesterday.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I wouldn't make Gray skipper - he's got a lot of pressure on him already calling the lineout, and let's not forget how young he is.

Couldn't help see him yesterday and think he looked jaded and not his usual self.

A few key things for me:


- leadership

Apparently the ref asked who the Scotland captain was late on yesterday, and no one knew. We have Laidlaw and Ford and that's it - neither of which are ideal captains. We were seriously lacking leadership again yesterday.

- power

If we were done up front against the Italians just think what will happen against England! Hamilton and Denton need to start, Toolis and Ashe on the bench.

We used to have a good pack - coincidence it has gone downhill since the Welsh forwards coach took over? He's certainly not covered himself in glory.

- Discipline

3 games, 38 penalties, 3 yellows. Not good enough. I don't think toolis and Watson could have done much else for their yellows, the ref was itching to give them, but it is a real problem.

We're not going to win games giving that many penalties away.

Our pack was good in the AI's and held up well against the French and finished the game stronger than the Welsh.

Why did it fall to bits so badly yesterday, you can't just blame the coaches. The players need to take a long hard look at themselves. It was not the first time they had to defend a rolling maul, they do that week in week out for their clubs and the will have had a plan in this match, which they clearly did not execute.

As VC said in the press conference, the message does not seem to be getting across. maybe we need some different players who know how to listen to the coaches!

The penalty count was actually better in this game, but it was the where and when we gave them away, particularly that last one to set up the winning drive. That was just plain stupid, there was no danger from that part of the pitch, just let them have the ball. Giving away a penalty there was the only way we could have lost that match and we managed it. Again that is about the players, not the coaches!

Completely agree with that last paragraph, and you're right about the players needing to take most the blame.

I just don't think our pack has been overly convincing under Humphries!

If you look at the positions that struggled yesterday it was where we had the most injuries, we were missing Gray, Gilchrist and Hamilton in the second row, fly-half where we were missing Russel, Weir and Jackson. We had no direction and no beef in the forwards.

The other issue is discipline, but I can't help but feel that has a lot to do with captaincy and the referees seem to get fed up with us and two big decisions in the last minutes of games has cost us and it is no surprise.

We haven't a regular captain for ages, Laidlaw talks the right things. He always seems to me like the school goody-goody whereas the likes of Cusiter, Blair and SHC are the "cool kids" . We need quicker service, better discipline and better leadership, one guys whilst not entirely culpable, has to take responsibility.

I would look at Maitland for the captaincy, he's quality if not prolific, well spoken, relatively error free and incredibly professional either that, Richie Gray is another option who's also a well know figure in Scotland or I would give the captaincy to the one of the new, young players either Gray, Dunbar, Bennett or Hogg. Personally I would give it to Hogg who whilst he has the mentality of a toddler he is our best player and he's passionate and it might make him grow up.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Would be harsh to drop Dickinson - he's generally been one of our better players, plus Grant didn't impress yesterday.

Lamont certainly needs to go though - big mistake picking him yesterday.

He may have been, but was rubbish yesterday. I think he may be mangled by the English TH in the next game and if we lose that match up, then it is game over before we even start.

How many chances do you get? Dickinson has been around the team a long time without ever really cementing his place and we have options in that position which unfortunately we do not on the TH side. Neither Murray nor Cross fill me with any confidence to be honest. Nel can't qualify quickly enough!

Another point - some people said they thought Horne generally did well yesterday.

I can't agree.

To me he played like what he is - a ball playing 12 filling in ag 10. He made the off half break, but just didn't control the game.

He spun the ball out wide, which is fine, but given his first movement was always sideways (a la Weir) the defence just drifted.

As a result we were very lateral in attack and generally didn't get anywhere with it.

Not just his fault, but he didn't help setting off sideways all the time.

I'd still prefer Tonks!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Another point - some people said they thought Horne generally did well yesterday.

I can't agree.

To me he played like what he is - a ball playing 12 filling in ag 10. He made the off half break, but just didn't control the game.

He spun the ball out wide, which is fine, but given his first movement was always sideways (a la Weir) the defence just drifted.

As a result we were very lateral in attack and generally didn't get anywhere with it.

Not just his fault, but he didn't help setting off sideways all the time.

I'd still prefer Tonks!

He did ok, but not good enough at this level. He plays much deeper than Russell and does not possess his natural exuberance and confidence. Yes he looked great against Zebre and did well enough against Ospreys but this is a completely different level. He just did not control the game like a good international FH can and should do. He was our 4th choice at the end of the day, we should not forget that, nor hold it against him. He would not have been playing if any of the others had been fit!

Lamont's time has been and gone

I also put Swinson in the Lamont category - the mind is willing but the body is weak.

The thought of him going up against Krus is terrifying.

I'm not sure Swinson has ever had a time at international level but I get your gist, never thought I'd be pining for for Al Kellock like I am now.

123456789 wrote:I'm not sure Swinson has ever had a time at international level but I get your gist, never thought I'd be pining for for Al Kellock like I am now.

I say this as a Glasgow fan, the answer to Scotland's problems is not Big Al!

I am less worried about the England front row, having watched Ireland hold them fairly comfortably 15 minutes ago. Dickinson will come good - he is not suddenly a bad prop after one game where most of the team left their brains in the car park.

BigGee wrote:

123456789 wrote:I'm not sure Swinson has ever had a time at international level but I get your gist, never thought I'd be pining for for Al Kellock like I am now.

I say this as a Glasgow fan, the answer to Scotland's problems is not Big Al!

I don't mean the current Big Al, I mean the Al of about 4-5 years ago

BigGee wrote:Dickinson did not play well on Saturday, I can see Grant starting. The way Sutherland is playing and he was 24th man, he won't be to far off the bench either. I would give it a go, we know what Dickinson can do and you do still worry if he is a strong enough scrummager. Sutherland dealt with Adam Jones very effectively today and was good about the park.

Swinson actually looked like he was one of the few forwards up for it on Saturday, it may be hard to drop him. Toolis deserves more of a chance than he got though, was only just on and had to take one for the team. I suspect we will see them both. I hope we don't go back to big Jim. They said he was injured, but benched for Sarries yesterday. Like a few of the old guard, I think he has had his day.

Denton is surely going to be a shoe in, he played well today. Ashe looked rusty, but he has been out longer. Lets see how he goes next week, another game may make a difference for him. Harley definitely needs a rest. Do we go for KB, the 600 million dollar question. My feeling is that if Ashe is fit, then he plays. He may or may not be though.

Maitland is not going to be fit, Lamont needs to be dropped. Who do we play there. Visser scored a good try today but do we risk him defensively against a rampant English backline. It does seem that we are one winger away from having a very good backline. We just need someone else to step up. Fife  still blows hot and cold as well. I have to say that I don't know the answer to this one.

Thats crazy Dickinson is twice the scrummager Grant is. I would have Sutherland ahead of Grant in a heartbeat. That Italian pack wont take a backward step now they have dropped the liability that is Castro.

The point is that Vern now has a fortnight to sort out his merde.

There is no excuse for not doing what he suggested he would do at the start of the tournament and bring in players like His Kellybrows.

Watching the Ireland game really has hammered home the point that we are super f u c ked, just when I thought I couldn't get any more depressed....

Is Kelly injured? He's not been in the Sarries team the last few weeks.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is Kelly injured? He's not been in the Sarries team the last few weeks.

He has a hand injury I think, dislocation of some type

VinceWLB wrote:

BigGee wrote:Dickinson did not play well on Saturday, I can see Grant starting. The way Sutherland is playing and he was 24th man, he won't be to far off the bench either. I would give it a go, we know what Dickinson can do and you do still worry if he is a strong enough scrummager. Sutherland dealt with Adam Jones very effectively today and was good about the park.

Swinson actually looked like he was one of the few forwards up for it on Saturday, it may be hard to drop him. Toolis deserves more of a chance than he got though, was only just on and had to take one for the team. I suspect we will see them both. I hope we don't go back to big Jim. They said he was injured, but benched for Sarries yesterday. Like a few of the old guard, I think he has had his day.

Denton is surely going to be a shoe in, he played well today. Ashe looked rusty, but he has been out longer. Lets see how he goes next week, another game may make a difference for him. Harley definitely needs a rest. Do we go for KB, the 600 million dollar question. My feeling is that if Ashe is fit, then he plays. He may or may not be though.

Maitland is not going to be fit, Lamont needs to be dropped. Who do we play there. Visser scored a good try today but do we risk him defensively against a rampant English backline. It does seem that we are one winger away from having a very good backline. We just need someone else to step up. Fife  still blows hot and cold as well. I have to say that I don't know the answer to this one.

Thats crazy Dickinson is twice the scrummager Grant is. I would have Sutherland ahead of Grant in a heartbeat. That Italian pack wont take a backward step now they have dropped the liability that is Castro.

I would not actually have a problem with trying out Sutherland. Something has to give here, we can't just role out the same old team against England. We may just have to accept that the rest of this season and maybe even this world cup is a development for us. We do have a lot of good young players coming through, lets look to the future and give them a try. I have a lot less of an issue with a young guy having a so so game than experienced players like Dickinson, who really should be amongst the leaders of the team. He has waited a long time to be the incumbent, he needs to show that he deserves it or move over. I am not just picking on him as plenty others came into the same category and in positions like his, where there are some options, we need to look at them!

cakeordeath wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Is Kelly injured? He's not been in the Sarries team the last few weeks.

He has a hand injury I think, dislocation of some type

Well that probably ends that debate then!

Kelly Brown@kellydrbrown · Feb 16
Good win for the lads yesterday against a top side. Annoying to hurt my hand, hopefully not too bad and back playing ASAP. #wolfpack

Double doh with a side order of sh!te.

George Carlin wrote:

Kelly Brown@kellydrbrown · Feb 16
Good win for the lads yesterday against a top side. Annoying to hurt my hand, hopefully not too bad and back playing ASAP. #wolfpack

Double doh with a side order of sh!te.

To be fair, that is 2 weeks ago, and the next game isn't for 2 weeks, he may be fit

cakeordeath wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Kelly Brown@kellydrbrown · Feb 16
Good win for the lads yesterday against a top side. Annoying to hurt my hand, hopefully not too bad and back playing ASAP. #wolfpack

Double doh with a side order of sh!te.

To be fair, that is 2 weeks ago, and the next game isn't for 2 weeks, he may be fit

It makes it harder for him and it was hard enough already!

Others, Denton and Ashe, have come back to fitness already, and are probably more in VC's eye anyway. If he does not get back in this 6N, then we won't see him again. I think that is looking less and less likely now and we probably need to accept that. There are other options.