Title Decider 2: Wales v Ireland 14 March

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WALES v IRELAND
Saturday 14 March 2015
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Chris Pollock (NZR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

*****

The bookies are keeping with their earlier predictions of no GS winner above Ireland's chances. And same for the Triple Crown.  Though they have Ireland as favourites in Cardiff but not by much.

Given the distinct love-in that we've had over the last fortnight between Irish and English fans, are Wales now the new 'old enemy'?

Keep it clean folks.

Well a bit anyway.

Ireland team:
15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt) 6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements: 16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 18. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) 19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

Wales Team: Webb, Roberts, Biggar, North, Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Jones, Falateau, Warburton, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee.
Replacements: R Hibbard R Evans A Jarvis , J Ball J Tipuric , M Phillips , R Priestland , S Williams

It's the whole familiarity breeding contempt thing. England used to be the big one because our clubs would play their clubs. Now it's you feckers.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The issue is going beyond the ball as it prevents the tackled player from releasing making it easier for the defender buying a pen even though he  commiting an offence 1st. Its more refs than Barnes picking up on it.

Perhaps, but if you saw the Bath vs Sale game you'll know what I mean. Some ridiculous decisions.

The funniest thing Barnes ever did was send Hartley off for calling him a cheat. I think that ruled Hartley out of the Lions tour too didnt it?

Barnes got off lightly.

Did nt see the Bath match but the criticism of Barnes is unwarranted especially if its the actual law peopled ont agree with.

Okay...so let's talk Walsh, Poite em.............. Rolland............................. eh, the other SA guy that retired, oh what'shisball????.............. Kraplan?

Let's talk about one of them instead.

Refs arent out to get anyone full stop. We can all get frustrated that Ref A hasnt seen Player B go off his feet but gives a pen elsewhere deep down I think we all know they are calling it as they see it. I have no problems with any 1 ref I sometimes think they get things wrong and ill point it out. I know i dont have to point out the amount of times I shout at the tv for a pen onlyt o see in the replay the ref was spot on.

Or say, "that went backwards!" only for the replay to show it was a knock on.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Refs arent out  to get anyone full stop. We can all get frustrated that Ref A hasnt seen Player B go off his feet but gives a pen elsewhere deep down I think we all know they are calling it as they see it. I have no problems with any 1 ref I sometimes think they get things wrong and ill point it out. I know i dont have to point out the amount of times I shout at the tv for a pen onlyt o see in the replay the ref was spot on.

True 7 1/2.

But it's part of the game.  Refs get flak.  Refs get remembered.  Refs become infamous.  And some of them actually have a secret love of the attention.  BTW lovely try that Alain Rolland scored for Ireland against England a while back in a game he reffed  You should look it up.

Refs get blamed for the ills of the game and never get credit for the little moments of 'luck' that wins a game.

That's just how it is.  I have no personal problems with Barnes at all.  None with Poite.  But boy did I enjoy the 'idea' that Poite had one in for us.  It's just an ingredient you throw into the pie for fun, banter and mischief.

If I thought Barnes was about to consciously DO - US, I wouldn't be here chewing the cud on it.... I'd be writing to the IRFU with stinking letters of protest!!!  No letters went out today from me

Griff wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Griff wrote:

quinsforever wrote:everyone would have been stuffed by NZ in 2005. doesnt matter who played.

england are often going to have more bodies on a tour of 45 players as England have more pro players. the old strength in depth argument. what matters is how many get selected in the first XV in the Tests.

What does that have to do with it? It is rare to take non-current internationals. Actually, the trend is to take 1 non-capped player isn't it? So therefore, Lions selection comes from the 4 international squads, generally. International squad sizes tend to be a similar size so the lions squad will be generally picked from Eng/Ire/Scot/Wal players that are in each of those squads pre-Lions tour (so picking from around 30 or so in each international squad). Not sure how that determines England should have more representation.

Wasn't that what the Baa Baas always historically done, played on un capped player.

Thought it was the Lions too?? I remember a discussion a while back before the last tour about how much harder this tradition is becoming because players are getting capped so young, easily and (perhpas) cheaply with all of the international games these days.

I think Greenwood was an uncapped Lions tourist wasn't he? Perhaps the last one? But I think it was a tradition.

Sorry to come to this late. It's not a Lions tradition to have an uncapped player. It has certainly happened, but the only side who would make a point of selecting an uncapped player is the Barbarians.

The Lions tradition is to choose a wildcard, I think. A player who appears promising but is still on the fringes and doesn't expect to get a call up.

Fair enough Fly. Obviously Barnes will have a nightmare now anywat!

SecretFly wrote:The Lions tradition is to choose a wildcard, I think. A player who appears promising but is still on the fringes and doesn't expect to get a call up.

It really isn't. A Lions coach just chooses who he thinks will be the best squad of players. Back in the amateur days, there was more of an attempt to ensure that the four nations had decent representation, which allegedly meant a bit of horse trading behind the scenes. Now, the final decision is made by the coach.

Okay............

It really isn't.

But it is Everytime there is a Lions series, the word 'wildcard' appears. A tradition doesn't have to be written in formal stone only something that people develop a habit of expecting.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Did nt see the Bath match but the criticism of Barnes is unwarranted especially if its the actual law peopled ont agree with.

You didn't see the game but my criticism of Barnes is unwarranted??

I watch an awful lot of rugby and never in my life have I seen the breakdown interpreted in that way, not even by Barnes himself. Watch it, and you'll see my criticism is entirely justified.

You never know what you're going to get from Wayne - especially when he goes on one of his Barnes terming runs.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Did nt see the Bath match but the criticism of Barnes is unwarranted especially if its the actual law peopled ont agree with.

You didn't see the game but my criticism of Barnes is unwarranted??

I watch an awful lot of rugby and never in my life have I seen the breakdown interpreted in that way, not even by Barnes himself. Watch it, and you'll see my criticism is entirely justified.

If your criticism is that he was penalising players were going beyond the ball and dragging their arms back then yes as thats a pen offence.

Notch wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Don't know if either of you saw the Bath vs Sale game on Friday, but Wayne Barnes was at his pedantic best. He was particularly gauche at the breakdown, where he decided to repeatedly penalise both sides for apparently touching the ground with their hands before competing for the ball on the floor. Several incidents which looked cast iron penalties to one side against the other for holding on, were reversed for an extremely technical offence (which the BT Sports commentators disgreed with every time). Reminded me a bit of Chris Pollock in that 1st Lions Test where he penalised BOD for a legitimate challenge for the ball.

Be warned, it's clearly his new "thing", and expect some very odd breakdown decisions as a result unless your players are equally pedentic at emphasising that they are going straight for the ball.

Touching the ground with your hands does not mean you are not supporting your own weight, there's a big difference between touching and leaning. In fact going beyond the ball is good technique.

That is just pedantic and ridiculous refereeing.

actually it is a straightforward penalty. going past the ball and putting your hand or hands down then scooping back and trying to pick up the ball, is precisely a penalty. but usually its only SH refs that blow for it.

i think its an excellent rule, and needs to be blown up far more. too many players crabbing over the ball with both hands on the ground, deliberately slowing it down. too many low-scoring and no-try matches for my liking at international level in the 6Ns this year, and slow ball at the breakdown is a big factor. Refs are also under lots of pressure from certain sides that rely on slowing the ball at the breakdown on order to compete. Hogg against wales was a classic example. many scots fans were complaining that gethin did a no-arms clearout. hogg was literally on all fours in a perfect bridge position over the ball! if he did that anywhere near their deadball area i would give a straight yellow for cynically slowing down the ball.

SecretFly wrote:...A tradition doesn't have to be written in formal stone only something that people develop a habit of expecting...

That's not the sense Griff was using. He had in mind the very definite Barbarians tradition of selecting an uncapped player, and thought the Lions had the same. They don't. Does the Lions committee instead encourage their coaches to select, if not an uncapped player, then someone from left field? No.

There are often selection surprises, but they no more count as a tradition than upset results during the rugby World Cup, or Britain failing to win Eurovision.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Don't know if either of you saw the Bath vs Sale game on Friday, but Wayne Barnes was at his pedantic best. He was particularly gauche at the breakdown, where he decided to repeatedly penalise both sides for apparently touching the ground with their hands before competing for the ball on the floor. Several incidents which looked cast iron penalties to one side against the other for holding on, were reversed for an extremely technical offence (which the BT Sports commentators disgreed with every time). Reminded me a bit of Chris Pollock in that 1st Lions Test where he penalised BOD for a legitimate challenge for the ball.

Be warned, it's clearly his new "thing", and expect some very odd breakdown decisions as a result unless your players are equally pedentic at emphasising that they are going straight for the ball.

It isn't really idiosyncratic decisions at the breakdown that annoy me though as long as the ref is consistent. I genuinely believe that Barnes penalises Ireland more than other teams.

Well that's Ireland's fault for infringing more than anyone else.

Is it though? Ireland are one of the least penalised teams around.

Sorry, I forgot the smiley.

You were almost right. I thought we established the other day, that Ulster were the dirty ones. I'm sure somebody mentioned it

Rugby Fan wrote:

SecretFly wrote:...A tradition doesn't have to be written in formal stone only something that people develop a habit of expecting...

That's not the sense Griff was using. He had in mind the very definite Barbarians tradition of selecting an uncapped player, and thought the Lions had the same. They don't. Does the Lions committee instead encourage their coaches to select, if not an uncapped player, then someone from left field? No.

There are often selection surprises, but they no more count as a tradition than upset results during the rugby World Cup, or Britain failing to win Eurovision.

Fair enough. I knew it hadn't happened for a long time (Greenwood was last) but thought it was an older 'tradition'. No harm done I'm sure.

Quinnell Snr got a Lions cap before a Welsh cap as well yearsssssssssss ago

A International:

One the eve of POCs 100th Ireland test some might be interested in a look back at the line up for POCs one and only Ireland A test. Just look at the NZ A bench. Epic.

Also some nice symmetry that his 100th Irish cap is v Wales because his first cap was the 6N game v Wales in 2002 when Ireland won 54-10 and POC scored a try.

...so Ireland won that one did they???

Talking of Wales v Ireland, Japan is starting to prepare the ground for the 2019 World Cup with some posters. Wonder whether it was POC's head, Adam Jones's locks or the red/green blend which made them select this photograph.

https://twitter.com/Mulboyne/status/575605630678888448

Turned this into the match thread.

Bit weird - the official RU appointment sheet from November has Steve Walsh down to referee this one, but the offy website has it as Mr W Barnes.

Walsh withdrew due to "business commitments", probably that he hgas money on Wales to win so go their mate Barnes in to screw over Ireland again. Either that or hes got an AA meeting.

Gooseberry wrote:Walsh withdrew due to "business commitments", probably that he hgas money on Wales to win so go their mate Barnes in to screw over Ireland again. Either that or hes got an AA meeting.

Clearly libellous, but obviously also

Gooseberry wrote:Walsh withdrew due to "business commitments", probably that he hgas money on Wales to win so go their mate Barnes in to screw over Ireland again. Either that or hes got an AA meeting.

Thats harsh on Barnes, I don't think he sets out to screw Ireland, even though he gives dubious decisions involving an Irish team everytime, he just has no idea whats meant to happen in the scrum....at a ruck....maul or what a straight lineout looks like

Heaslip ans SOB back for Ireland. Jordi Murphy to bench and O'Donnell drops out. Theyre the only changes

profitius wrote:Heaslip ans SOB back for Ireland. Jordi Murphy to bench and O'Donnell drops out. Theyre the only changes

As expected really. Realistically can anyopne who hasnt featured in this years or last years 6 nations force their way into the WC squad? Its pretty unlikely I'd say provided there isn't a long injury list.

There is a good chance TOD will miss out altogether when Henry is back too.

O'Donnell has been holding his own and then some.

But I guess if Schmidt has the personnel to tighten up ship for a game as big as this one against Wales, then he breathes a (hopeful) sigh of relief and picks it.

I just hope he has a smooth transition of subs planned and doesn't get caught out replacing just as Wales get a purple patch going.

I still worry about the last 10 to 15 minutes - a period when we should be using the last reserves of energy to push back a side trying to fight back.  Trusting defence isn't good enough.  It's winning so far, but it's not comfortable, as POC keeps alluding to.

It seems Wales themselves have decided the roof will be open?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2991814/Wales-confirm-roof-open-Saturday-s-Six-Nations-clash-against-Ireland.html

Don't know if Ireland were consulted or whether Wales took for granted we'd say 'open'. But at least that burden has been removed from us................. and perhaps a sign that Wales wouldn't mind the wind getting involved in the game this time

Yep, you've got to think that they want the conditions to be unpredictable, otherwise I can't remember them actively choosing to have it open in any of the games recently

GunsGerms wrote:

profitius wrote:Heaslip ans SOB back for Ireland. Jordi Murphy to bench and O'Donnell drops out. Theyre the only changes

As expected really. Realistically can anyopne who hasnt featured in this years or last years 6 nations force their way into the WC squad? Its pretty unlikely I'd say provided there isn't a long injury list.

There is a good chance TOD will miss out altogether when Henry is back too.

The current 23 is nailed on to go except Jones. There'll be a fierce scramble for the rest to get in and injuries will play a big part in it also. There might be a few bolters like Furlong, McCloskey etc. One thing is for sure, there'll be a lot of good players left behind.

SecretFly wrote:
It seems Wales themselves have decided the roof will be open?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2991814/Wales-confirm-roof-open-Saturday-s-Six-Nations-clash-against-Ireland.html

Don't know if Ireland were consulted or whether Wales took for granted we'd say 'open'.  But at least that burden has been removed from us................. and perhaps a sign that Wales wouldn't mind the wind getting involved in the game this time

The default is for the roof to be open. If no one says anything then it stays open. Either Wales or the away team can request it to be shut, but there has to be agreement from both sides for that to happen. Sounds like no one has made a request, so the default option is selected.

BamBam wrote:Yep, you've got to think that they want the conditions to be unpredictable, otherwise I can't remember them actively choosing to have it open in any of the games recently

I'd say its because they know the kick chase is coming and don't want the extra humidity with the roof closed....

rodders wrote:

BamBam wrote:Yep, you've got to think that they want the conditions to be unpredictable, otherwise I can't remember them actively choosing to have it open in any of the games recently

I'd say its because they know the kick chase is coming and don't want the extra humidity with the roof closed....

Schmidt-ball here we come...

Griff wrote:


The default is for the roof to be open. If no one says anything then it stays open. Either Wales or the away team can request it to be shut, but there has to be agreement from both sides for that to happen. Sounds like no one has made a request, so the default option is selected.

Wales didn't put in a request to close it though, which you gotta say is not the norm for big games.

Griff wrote:

rodders wrote:

BamBam wrote:Yep, you've got to think that they want the conditions to be unpredictable, otherwise I can't remember them actively choosing to have it open in any of the games recently

I'd say its because they know the kick chase is coming and don't want the extra humidity with the roof closed....

Schmidt-ball here we come...

I think Joe might add a new string to his bow this weekend - indeed, Wales might force it!  

But either way, I think given where the Championship is now (just the two games left) and given there are only about four games after that to the beginning of the WC, Schmidt might want to test a less kicking orientated game.  

Dicey to change dramatically playing Wales in Wales - but then, his whole theory is to change it up a bit when you have the opposition expecting something else...and planning for it.

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:


The default is for the roof to be open. If no one says anything then it stays open. Either Wales or the away team can request it to be shut, but there has to be agreement from both sides for that to happen. Sounds like no one has made a request, so the default option is selected.

Wales didn't put in a request to close it though, which you gotta say is not the norm for big games.

True. But your wording, and I know you're a bit of a wordsmith ( ) so not sure if there was some intentional mischief in there, suggests that Wales themselves decided open it, like we'd made the decision without consulting anyone. There is no consultation with it open, is all.

SecretFly wrote:

Griff wrote:

rodders wrote:

BamBam wrote:Yep, you've got to think that they want the conditions to be unpredictable, otherwise I can't remember them actively choosing to have it open in any of the games recently

I'd say its because they know the kick chase is coming and don't want the extra humidity with the roof closed....

Schmidt-ball here we come...

I think Joe might add a new string to his bow this weekend - indeed, Wales might force it!  

But either way, I think given where the Championship is now (just the two games left) and given there are only about four games after that to the beginning of the WC, Schmidt might want to test a less kicking orientated game.  

Dicey to change dramatically playing Wales in Wales - but then, his whole theory is to change it up a bit when you have the opposition expecting something else...and planning for it.

Great, that would be good to see. I want more of the Leinster Joe Smidt rugby for Ireland. That Leinster stuff was some beautiful rugby. Kick-chase sounds like Wales. That's what we've been playing ad nauseum. Would hate to see you go down that road too.

Joe Schmidt is basically the ultimate pragmatist, but also a guy who understands how to implement a number of different strategies very accurately. He knows exactly how to get his team playing the style of rugby that maximises their strengths- I suppose that teams at this level are much better at defending rugby the way Leinster played it compared to Pro12 and even the top teams in Europe.

The other issue is the team has a lot less time together, but in the World Cup period they'll have several uninterrupted months including a whole pre-season so I'm sort of hoping we see us do whatever rugby it takes to win against Wales and Scotland and then expecting a slightly more complex approach come late summer/early autumn.

Frankly I would take a game we won 3-0 and passed the ball half as much as we kicked it if means we get a chance to win another Grand Slam. I'd sell both my grannies

Would still be dicey though to kill a winning (to date) rhythm against Wales of all sides, Griff.

So I wouldn't promise it!!!! But I've had a feeling for a few days that something different in texture might show.
And like I said, Wales might be the first side to actually get under our skins enough to force it (if we have it).
I've never made a secret of the fact that I'd like more creativity with ball in hand but pragmatism is winning out so far.

You gotta wonder if Heaslip, Sexton and possibly Payne are completely mended. And whether the three of them will last the 80 minutes. something tells me they won't - or rather one of them won't.

I suspect that Sexton is going to get a lot of close attention - as is Murray. And it won't be for their looks....

Murray is quite a looker, Pot!

What a dastardly accusation to make against him on the eve of war!!!!

Oh your name is going up, boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Your name is going up on the Wall of Conviction in the dressing room!!!!!!!!!!!!  POC will get a lot of mileage out of that one!

SecretFly wrote:Murray is quite a looker, Pot!

What a dastardly accusation to make against him on the eve of war!!!!

Oh your name is going up, boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Your name is going up on the Wall of Conviction in the dressing room!!!!!!!!!!!!  POC will get a lot of mileage out of that one!

As ever, misconstruing me - and ya did it on purpose.

I said it wouldn't be for their looks - acknowledging that Mr C. Murray clearly has something going for him in that department.

I reckon Paulie will be putting up Neil Francis's article on the Wall - I mean he practically said that Ireland were limited and that Wales would win!!! Splutter!

Oh yeah, he's going up too. Francis is definitely up. Never heard such backhanded compliments directed at Ireland that pretty much said we're Plan A crappers!!! And the Welsh are mad at him??? You can have him after we're finished with him

I just saw somebody hinting about Heaslip's superhuman recovery from his injury on twitter, to Walesonline journalist Simon Thomas (@simonrug). Not sure if he's hinting at whether he's surprised how quick he recovered, or whether he was ever really injured in the first place.