Title Decider 2: Wales v Ireland 14 March

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WALES v IRELAND
Saturday 14 March 2015
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Chris Pollock (NZR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

*****

The bookies are keeping with their earlier predictions of no GS winner above Ireland's chances. And same for the Triple Crown.  Though they have Ireland as favourites in Cardiff but not by much.

Given the distinct love-in that we've had over the last fortnight between Irish and English fans, are Wales now the new 'old enemy'?

Keep it clean folks.

Well a bit anyway.

Ireland team:
15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt) 6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements: 16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 18. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) 19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

Wales Team: Webb, Roberts, Biggar, North, Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Jones, Falateau, Warburton, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee.
Replacements: R Hibbard R Evans A Jarvis , J Ball J Tipuric , M Phillips , R Priestland , S Williams

Wayne Barnes is simply a bad referee so its no surprise he had a bad game. It was almost like he wanted to save Wales at the end himself. Strange decisions. However it was the bad start and Irelands lack of creativity that lost them the game. Overall I think theres more positives to take for Ireland than Wales. Wales played like a small team. They parked the bus and it worked.

Risca Rev wrote:Still think it's Ireland's championship, as we won't get a big win (if any) in Rome and I don't expect them to slip up v Scotland and let England in.

Why do Ireland have to slip up to allow England in? Surely this was the slip up that lets us back in?

LondonTiger wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:
Thought that Wales brought down the maul myself so should have resulted in an Irish scrum or penalty (hard to award a penalty at that stage without it being a penalty try). The scrum, I thought Wales took a deliberate step backwards right and caused the wheel, reset Ireland ball. That's how I saw it anyways.

Disagree. Wales did the utmist to avoid pulling it down, Ireland wheeled to the left and stumbled over their own players.

I guess I got confused by the amount of red jersey's on the floor around the Irish teams feet during the final shove to the line then

skiddy wrote:Wayne Barnes is simply a bad referee so its no surprise he had a bad game. It was almost like he wanted to save Wales at the end himself. Strange decisions. However it was the bad start and Irelands lack of creativity that lost them the game. Overall I think theres more positives to take for Ireland than Wales. Wales played like a small team. They parked the bus and it worked.

I am not sure Wales parked the bus, they were spreading the ball wide and looking to break far more than Ireland.

Sexton was clearly rushed back in before he was ready. He eschewed kicking game - did media pressure get to him? Or was he really carrying a groin injury?

He was flat and rattled and inaccurate before he was subbed. Did wales successfully target him and the old demons come back to haunt him?

Were Ireland tired after their efforts against England, did they take wales for granted?

Wales comfortably won the line out, aerial battle and breakdown. What a turn around!

This is significant for the World Cup undoubtably - wales have beaten the team that beat England so therefore this is good news for their pool matches!

Risca Rev wrote:Charteris is some player for us defensively.

37 tackles, 0 misses apparently,

If true, that is insane. I wonder what the world record is?

Equally,

Warbs got 30
Faletau 24
Biggar (!) 22
Lydiate 21
Baldwin 20

Can I just point out I predicted 24-17 in the competition! One from one!

Cyril wrote:Barnes had a good game. Showed both sides how to behave in the first half and (when they got the hang of it) we got a brilliant 2nd half.

Best game of the tournament so far (not saying much though ).

Really have to agree with this, perfect example of how strict refereeing can make the game clean and improve the show.
PS, That's something I thought I would never think but Barnes proved a point today.

That just shows how negative Wales were. Did any of those players tough the ball with their hands?

2ndtimeround wrote:

Cyril wrote:Barnes had a good game. Showed both sides how to behave in the first half and (when they got the hang of it) we got a brilliant 2nd half.

Best game of the tournament so far (not saying much though ).

Really have to agree with this, perfect example of how strict refereeing can make the game clean and improve the show.
PS, That's something I thought I would never think but Barnes proved a point today.

But both team had players lying on the wrong side for the whole match even after the yellow card?

LondonTiger wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Still think it's Ireland's championship, as we won't get a big win (if any) in Rome and I don't expect them to slip up v Scotland and let England in.

Why do Ireland have to slip up to allow England in? Surely this was the slip up that lets us back in?

Think I've basically forgotten that England were playing now Head has gone after the Wales game. You will probably do pretty well now (try already) and be ahead on points difference then? I would certainly favour you to beat France too, though I think Ireland will go pretty well v the Scots too.

wales606 wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Charteris is some player for us defensively.

37 tackles, 0 misses apparently,

If true, that is insane. I wonder what the world record is?

Equally,

Warbs got 30
Faletau 24
Biggar (!) 22
Lydiate 21
Baldwin 20

Amazing numbers, fair play.

It was massively noticable how much keener players were in the second half to roll away from the rucks quicker. It's amazing that it took half time and the coaches telling them to do this for both teams to realise this! Although, to be fair, after the opening 20 Ireland adapted to this much quicker. Barnes called up SOB early on for going past the ball at the breakdown before working back to it, which was big for Wales. He's so good on the floor and that neutralised him in that area to an extent, and allowed us to get some decent ball.

Really enjoyed that game though. The tension and intensity was superb. As for those Welsh defensive stats... Wow. Unbelievable. Warburton was a well deserved MoM. When will we stop picking Mike Phillips though?! Only on for 5/10 minutes and managed to give away a brain dead feed free kick.

Congrats to Wales. What a game. Ireland had to lose sometime and I think this loss should make them evaluate the need for variety in play aisde from kicking. I would like to see some of that against Scotland.

Very close game, but for me it swung on two big issues. The driving Maul at the end was absolutely collapsed by Wales, there was a sea of Welsh bodies on the bottom of it. Tough to give a second PT after calling a first, but Ireland were going forward, it should have at least been a penalty

And the scrum. Scott Baldwin when he came on spent the game moonwalking backwards, Ireland dominated most of them, and yet most of the calls went for Wales.

I have to say a little bit about the cynicism of the Welsh team when in the build-up they talk about the Irish team being anti-rugby. Two yellow cards, a penalty try where there could/should have been two, constant offside, so many penalties. This after their final minutes against Scotland.

Fair play to the Welsh defence though. Outstanding.

skiddy wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

Cyril wrote:Barnes had a good game. Showed both sides how to behave in the first half and (when they got the hang of it) we got a brilliant 2nd half.

Best game of the tournament so far (not saying much though ).

Really have to agree with this, perfect example of how strict refereeing can make the game clean and improve the show.
PS, That's something I thought I would never think but Barnes proved a point today.

But both team had players lying on the wrong side for the whole match even after the yellow card?

Tackling players that are not interfering with the ball are fine.

I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

But any quibbles Ireland have with him don't paper over the fact that the best team won today. I was watching with friends, all of us Ireland fans, and on a few occasions we all applauded the Welsh defence. It was brilliant. We had no answer in attack. They won the aerial battle and the ruck battle too.

A few in Ireland have been sounding alarm bells about the limited attack. And we finally saw it punished today. I'd like to see the back line shaken up. The defeat gives Saint Joe the excuse to bring in Earls and Fitzty, both attacking brilliantly for their provinces. Difficult to drop anyone when the team is on such a winning streak but it should be done now.

I'm not too upset because I think we can definitely improve and bounce back from this next week.

TheRugbyMaster wrote:Can I just point out I predicted 24-17 in the competition! One from one!

and i predicted 21-16.

skiddy wrote:Wayne Barnes is simply a bad referee so its no surprise he had a bad game. It was almost like he wanted to save Wales at the end himself. Strange decisions. However it was the bad start and Irelands lack of creativity that lost them the game. Overall I think theres more positives to take for Ireland than Wales. Wales played like a small team. They parked the bus and it worked.

wayne barnes had a great game. one of the best, most consistent refereeing games, from two teams who made it clear they were willing to infringe all day long in the first half. had barnes not correctly enforced the rules, the second half would have been Poopie. ireland might have won mind, which is i suspect what you are really saying.

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

But any quibbles Ireland have with him don't paper over the fact that the best team won today. I was watching with friends, all of us Ireland fans, and on a few occasions we all applauded the Welsh defence. It was brilliant. We had no answer in attack. They won the aerial battle and the ruck battle too.

A few in Ireland have been sounding alarm bells about the limited attack. And we finally saw it punished today. I'd like to see the back line shaken up. The defeat gives Saint Joe the excuse to bring in Earls and Fitzty, both attacking brilliantly for their provinces. Difficult to drop anyone when the team is on such a winning streak but it should be done now.

I'm not too upset because I think we can definitely improve and bounce back from this next week.

I would like to say that I have been one of those claiming Irelands attacking limitations. Not because Ireland don't have the players in the team to play an attacking style but more that Schmidt's plan, although working, is overly defensive orientated. Weeks ago, I was taken to shreds for saying this, for saying that Ireland would be found out for not having a plan B and likening Ireland (Schmidt) to Gatland's Wales approach.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

But any quibbles Ireland have with him don't paper over the fact that the best team won today. I was watching with friends, all of us Ireland fans, and on a few occasions we all applauded the Welsh defence. It was brilliant. We had no answer in attack. They won the aerial battle and the ruck battle too.

A few in Ireland have been sounding alarm bells about the limited attack. And we finally saw it punished today. I'd like to see the back line shaken up. The defeat gives Saint Joe the excuse to bring in Earls and Fitzty, both attacking brilliantly for their provinces. Difficult to drop anyone when the team is on such a winning streak but it should be done now.

I'm not too upset because I think we can definitely improve and bounce back from this next week.

I would like to say that I have been one of those claiming Irelands attacking limitations. Not because Ireland don't have the players in the team to play an attacking style but more that Schmidt's plan, although working, is overly defensive orientated. Weeks ago, I was taken to shreds for saying this, for saying that Ireland would be found out for not having a plan B and likening Ireland (Schmidt) to Gatland's Wales approach.

How did Ireland not have a Plan B? They were just too late in implementing it but when they did they threatened

marty2086 wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

But any quibbles Ireland have with him don't paper over the fact that the best team won today. I was watching with friends, all of us Ireland fans, and on a few occasions we all applauded the Welsh defence. It was brilliant. We had no answer in attack. They won the aerial battle and the ruck battle too.

A few in Ireland have been sounding alarm bells about the limited attack. And we finally saw it punished today. I'd like to see the back line shaken up. The defeat gives Saint Joe the excuse to bring in Earls and Fitzty, both attacking brilliantly for their provinces. Difficult to drop anyone when the team is on such a winning streak but it should be done now.

I'm not too upset because I think we can definitely improve and bounce back from this next week.

I would like to say that I have been one of those claiming Irelands attacking limitations. Not because Ireland don't have the players in the team to play an attacking style but more that Schmidt's plan, although working, is overly defensive orientated. Weeks ago, I was taken to shreds for saying this, for saying that Ireland would be found out for not having a plan B and likening Ireland (Schmidt) to Gatland's Wales approach.

How did Ireland not have a Plan B? They were just too late in implementing it but when they did they threatened

No, that was the players in pure desperation trying to push for something. There was no structure and zero vision. Threatening? very few times were they actually threatening if I may be honest. Wales simply defended their lead in a similar way to what Ireland have done in the first 3 games which allowed Ireland to look more threatening than they actually were.

There's a difference between threatening to score and actually scoring though.

I actually have a problem with Ireland's general style of play to be honest. It's effective. It's just that when they do get into threatening positions they aren't getting over the try line. And there are players with good attacking skills worth considering.

FecklessRogue wrote:There's a difference between threatening to score and actually scoring though.

I actually have a problem with Ireland's general style of play to be honest. It's effective. It's just that when they do get into threatening positions they aren't getting over the try line. And there are players with good attacking skills worth considering.

Agree although I do feel its more down to the tactics than the players myself. Put Earls in at 13, normally would work but he would simply follow the Schmidt plan. Its not the players, its the tactics that worry me.

Reddan seemed able to put the players through gaps in a way Murray just never managed.I think if we need to go all out attack against Scotland then it might be worth seeing if he can make that kind of difference from the start.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

But any quibbles Ireland have with him don't paper over the fact that the best team won today. I was watching with friends, all of us Ireland fans, and on a few occasions we all applauded the Welsh defence. It was brilliant. We had no answer in attack. They won the aerial battle and the ruck battle too.

A few in Ireland have been sounding alarm bells about the limited attack. And we finally saw it punished today. I'd like to see the back line shaken up. The defeat gives Saint Joe the excuse to bring in Earls and Fitzty, both attacking brilliantly for their provinces. Difficult to drop anyone when the team is on such a winning streak but it should be done now.

I'm not too upset because I think we can definitely improve and bounce back from this next week.

I would like to say that I have been one of those claiming Irelands attacking limitations. Not because Ireland don't have the players in the team to play an attacking style but more that Schmidt's plan, although working, is overly defensive orientated. Weeks ago, I was taken to shreds for saying this, for saying that Ireland would be found out for not having a plan B and likening Ireland (Schmidt) to Gatland's Wales approach.

How did Ireland not have a Plan B? They were just too late in implementing it but when they did they threatened

No, that was the players in pure desperation trying to push for something. There was no structure and zero vision. Threatening? very few times were they actually threatening if I may be honest. Wales simply defended their lead in a similar way to what Ireland have done  in the first 3 games which allowed Ireland to look more threatening than they actually were.

Didnt threaten? Bowe being stopped short of the line and I think it was Healy being stopped against the post, how close does a player need to get before he threatens the try line?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Reddan seemed able to put the players through gaps in a way Murray just never managed.I think if we need to go all out attack against Scotland then it might be worth seeing if he can make that kind of difference from the start.

Reddan was certainly an improvement when he came on but lets not forget that he came on after one of the most fantastic defensive efforts from a Welsh side who must certainly have been knackered. I would still not start him but maybe get him on a little earlier. He is, and remains to me, an excellent impact player. He lacks the same game management that Murray has.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Reddan seemed able to put the players through gaps in a way Murray just never managed.I think if we need to go all out attack against Scotland then it might be worth seeing if he can make that kind of difference from the start.

Reddan was certainly an improvement when he came on but lets not forget that he came on after one of the most fantastic defensive efforts from a Welsh side who must certainly have been knackered. I would still not start him but maybe get him on a little earlier. He is, and remains to me, an excellent impact player. He lacks the same game management that Murray has.

Yeah overall Murray is the better player,I'd only consider it if we needed to rack up a big score and in fairness if Scotland can keep England from scoring again then we might not need to.

Marshes wrote:Congrats to Wales. What a game. Ireland had to lose sometime and I think this loss should make them evaluate the need for variety in play aisde from kicking. I would like to see some of that against Scotland.

Very close game, but for me it swung on two big issues. The driving Maul at the end was absolutely collapsed by Wales, there was a sea of Welsh bodies on the bottom of it. Tough to give a second PT after calling a first, but Ireland were going forward, it should have at least been a penalty

And the scrum. Scott Baldwin when he came on spent the game moonwalking backwards, Ireland dominated most of them, and yet most of the calls went for Wales.

I have to say a little bit about the cynicism of the Welsh team when in the build-up they talk about the Irish team being anti-rugby. Two yellow cards, a penalty try where there could/should have been two, constant offside, so many penalties. This after their final minutes against Scotland.

Fair play to the Welsh defence though. Outstanding.

Who talked about anti rugby? Austin Healey perhaps was closest. Seen little else.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Reddan seemed able to put the players through gaps in a way Murray just never managed.I think if we need to go all out attack against Scotland then it might be worth seeing if he can make that kind of difference from the start.

Reddan was certainly an improvement when he came on but lets not forget that he came on after one of the most fantastic defensive efforts from a Welsh side who must certainly have been knackered. I would still not start him but maybe get him on a little earlier. He is, and remains to me, an excellent impact player. He lacks the same game management that Murray has.

There are many factors, but certainly the service from the scrum increased immeasurably when Reddan came on. He is simply much quicker at getting the ball out. Murray is too busy marshalling his forwards. I am a big fan of Murray but he needs to quicken up at crucial moments.

marty2086 wrote:

Didnt threaten? Bowe being stopped short of the line and I think it was Healy being stopped against the post, how close does a player need to get before he threatens the try line?

As I said, all these supposedly threatening movements were done as Wales were trying to close out the game with a seemingly unassailable lead, ala Ireland Games 1, 2 and 3.
When trying to see a game out, teams generally offer more chances.

There were moments when Ireland should have scored but showed a distinct lack of vision due to the 'safety first' approach in the tactics.

Do you really believe that Ireland were threatening and showed attacking intent with structure? I certainly don't.

Also for all the talk that we were found out we actually played a completely different game to what we have done in the 3 games before.Only 18 kicks according to ESPN,if our lineout had functioned and the scrum had been refereed normally then it would have been a different game.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Didnt threaten? Bowe being stopped short of the line and I think it was Healy being stopped against the post, how close does a player need to get before he threatens the try line?

As I said, all these supposedly threatening movements were done as Wales were trying to close out the game with a seemingly unassailable lead, ala Ireland Games 1, 2 and 3.
When trying to see a game out, teams generally offer more chances.

There were moments when Ireland should have scored but showed a distinct lack of vision due to the 'safety first' approach in the tactics.

Do you really believe that Ireland were threatening and showed attacking intent with structure? I certainly don't.

As soon as Reddan came on I do(and I mean instantly,it was like the flick of a light switch),it was reminiscent of Leinster under Schmidt but Wales only had to defend 20 minutes of it so managed to do enough.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Also for all the talk that we were found out we actually played a completely different game to what we have done in the 3 games before.Only 18 kicks according to ESPN,if our lineout had functioned and the scrum had been refereed normally then it would have been a different game.

I would say that Ireland approached the game exactly how they have approached all matches this 6N. They were found out, Wales countered with the same gameplan and Ireland were found wanting.

Wales pressured the area's that Ireland have been doing but were a step quicker than Ireland and caught them on the back foot. It was a very clever approach from Wales.

As an ex-scrum half, I always get defensive when people suggest starting one 9 over another on the basis of a cameo. It is much, much easier to come off the bench and add tempo to a game than it is to start and maintain that pace. So I would always be hesitant about dropping a scrum half based on a cameo, especially when it is one as proven as Connor Murray. Think it would be foolish to start Reddan over him next week.

You could say that but imo you'd be wrong.We didn't kick contestables like we did against England and France,that's a fact.We ran the ball with a few little moves trying to find space around the ruck that were close to coming off but were just stopped.Our gameplan today bore very little resemblance to the one we used against England and France just look at all the times Sexton dinked over the top (poorly),he never tried that against anyone else.It was a gameplan designed for Wales and unfortunately it came up short but it was no way the same gameplan we used 2 week ago.

JDizzle wrote:As an ex-scrum half, I always get defensive when people suggest starting one 9 over another on the basis of a cameo. It is much, much easier to come off the bench and add tempo to a game than it is to start and maintain that pace. So I would always be hesitant about dropping a scrum half based on a cameo, especially when it is one as proven as Connor Murray. Think it would be foolish to start Reddan over him next week.

The reason I would like to see Reddan is to see whether he could do it from the start,if not fair enough but if he can then we need to get Murray operating at his speed.

[quote="FecklessRogue"]I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

I thought that was one of the most entertaining games of Rugby I have seen in a long time. Shame that so much of the scoring was down to penalties. But those were two terrific teams going at it with all they had. Inspiring and edge of the seat stuff. If we would see that effort from England...............

asoreleftshoulder wrote:You could say that but imo you'd be wrong.We didn't kick contestables like we did against England and France,that's a fact.We ran the ball with a few little moves trying to find space around the ruck that were close to coming off but were just stopped.Our gameplan today bore very little resemblance to the one we used against England and France just look at all the times Sexton dinked over the top (poorly),he never tried that against anyone else.It was a gameplan designed for Wales and unfortunately it came up short but it was no way the same gameplan we used 2 week ago.

I would be wrong? Not sure about that. Ireland started with the same tactics that they had used to good effect in the first three matches. Problem was, Wales applied the same tactics that Ireland use but to better effect and left Ireland completely confused and lacking in game composure thus leading to silly mistakes and indecision. The players themselves tried to change the tactics and play another way but were completely unprepared. Ireland resorted to chasing the game, ala England and France against Ireland. They were simply found out for not having a set plan in place when their tactics were countered.

ireland spend so much time operating in the grey area of breakdown interpretation, that to some extent, with this team, and Schmidt, its always going to be more about the referee for Ireland than it is for anyone else.

ireland need to be able to score when they have the ball. no teams and apart from against Italy in the last 20 mintues. they just havent.

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

"The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really."

Well maybe the Irish should stop talking about Barnes like they have been before, during and after the game? I don't understand how he can sin-bin two Wales players and still be anti-irish. I think today he showed amateurs on the elite panel (Joubert) how to handle the breakdown area.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:You could say that but imo you'd be wrong.We didn't kick contestables like we did against England and France,that's a fact.We ran the ball with a few little moves trying to find space around the ruck that were close to coming off but were just stopped.Our gameplan today bore very little resemblance to the one we used against England and France just look at all the times Sexton dinked over the top (poorly),he never tried that against anyone else.It was a gameplan designed for Wales and unfortunately it came up short but it was no way the same gameplan we used 2 week ago.

I would be wrong? Not sure about that. Ireland started with the same tactics that they had used to good effect in the first three matches. Problem was, Wales applied the same tactics that Ireland use but to better effect and left Ireland completely confused and lacking in game composure thus leading to silly mistakes and indecision. The players themselves tried to change the tactics and play another way but were completely unprepared. Ireland resorted to chasing the game, ala England and France against Ireland. They were simply found out for not having a set plan in place when their tactics were countered.

Sorry but you've just made that up.

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

You can pretend Barnes didn't have an effect on the game way the game shook out, but he did. Wales defended exceptionally well, and Ireland knocked on their best chances, but the biggest call at the end is a game decider, and big matches swing on that balance.

Be honest with yourself, when would an attacking team going forward in a maul and three metres out from a try line responsible for collapsing it? Add to that that a penalty try had already been awarded and two yellow cards for cynical play. I think he bottled that one, if it swung the other way I don't think any Welsh fans could moan about it right now.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:You could say that but imo you'd be wrong.We didn't kick contestables like we did against England and France,that's a fact.We ran the ball with a few little moves trying to find space around the ruck that were close to coming off but were just stopped.Our gameplan today bore very little resemblance to the one we used against England and France just look at all the times Sexton dinked over the top (poorly),he never tried that against anyone else.It was a gameplan designed for Wales and unfortunately it came up short but it was no way the same gameplan we used 2 week ago.

I would be wrong? Not sure about that. Ireland started with the same tactics that they had used to good effect in the first three matches. Problem was, Wales applied the same tactics that Ireland use but to better effect and left Ireland completely confused and lacking in game composure thus leading to silly mistakes and indecision. The players themselves tried to change the tactics and play another way but were completely unprepared. Ireland resorted to chasing the game, ala England and France against Ireland. They were simply found out for not having a set plan in place when their tactics were countered.

Sorry but you've just made that up.

Can you counter at all or will you just say things like that?

Wales out thought Ireland and as a result were the better team.

When Ireland closed out matches, I said that they looked very vulnerable but many said they were comfortable. Will the same people say that Wales looked comfortable until the end? Wales closed out the match using the same tactics and approach that Ireland have in the first 3 matches.

The Saint wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

"The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really."

Well maybe the Irish should stop talking about Barnes like they have been before, during and after the game? I don't understand how can sin-bin two Wales players and still be anti-irish. I think today he showed amateurs on the elite panel (Joubert) how to handle the breakdown area.

I think only one (maybe 2) poster has said he's anti-Irish,loads of us have said he's a poor ref and we don't like him but I think the fact it was said before the match shows that we aren't just reacting to the loss.He's just a consistently poor ref who makes strange decisions against both sides.I thought he was crap fromour point of view but definitely saw a few calls he got wrong that helped us too.I'm sure if I watched it back from a Welsh point of view I'd find far more,that doesn't change the fact that he's a poor ref.

The Saint wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

"The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really."

Well maybe the Irish should stop talking about Barnes like they have been before, during and after the game? I don't understand how can sin-bin two Wales players and still be anti-irish. I think today he showed amateurs on the elite panel (Joubert) how to handle the breakdown area.

He doesn't have to be anti-Irish to home whistle some decisions. I said before the game their is no point worrying about Barnes as we shouldn't be looking for excuses pre-emptively. But the millennium is an intimidating place for a ref to go, and some key decisions swung Wales way.

Watched the game on Cardiff in a random location (which I always enjoy). Watched with mates and and a token Irish fan. From the outset I thought (as did others from both sides in the pub) that Barnes was very whistle happy. For/against both sides. So consistent. It was hard to criticise, but it was hard for the game get going. If he'd let stuff go then we (on here and in the pub) would be up in arms.

But, one thing that saddens me is the way the game is doing. That was an awful game of rugby. It was great for tension. My nerves were jangling. But it's not the game I fell in love with. It was like rugby league but, IMO, not as exciting. It was like British (and Irish) Bulldogs. Ireland did more of the attacking rugby, but it was all defence orientated stuff. I'm not a fan. Happy with a win. But this stuff will kill the game developmentally IMO.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:You could say that but imo you'd be wrong.We didn't kick contestables like we did against England and France,that's a fact.We ran the ball with a few little moves trying to find space around the ruck that were close to coming off but were just stopped.Our gameplan today bore very little resemblance to the one we used against England and France just look at all the times Sexton dinked over the top (poorly),he never tried that against anyone else.It was a gameplan designed for Wales and unfortunately it came up short but it was no way the same gameplan we used 2 week ago.

I would be wrong? Not sure about that. Ireland started with the same tactics that they had used to good effect in the first three matches. Problem was, Wales applied the same tactics that Ireland use but to better effect and left Ireland completely confused and lacking in game composure thus leading to silly mistakes and indecision. The players themselves tried to change the tactics and play another way but were completely unprepared. Ireland resorted to chasing the game, ala England and France against Ireland. They were simply found out for not having a set plan in place when their tactics were countered.

Sorry but you've just made that up.

Can you counter at all or will you just say things like that?

Wales out thought Ireland and as a result were the better team.

When Ireland closed out matches, I said that they looked very vulnerable but many said they were comfortable. Will the same people say that Wales looked comfortable until the end? Wales closed out the match using the same tactics and approach that Ireland have in the first 3 matches.

I did counter,I showed you how our gameplan was completely different but executed badly and that allied to a malfunctioning setpiece meant we weren't good enough.

You haven't countered that,you've just made up something about the players changing the gameplan.Can you prove it,do you know that they haven't been working on this way of playing at training?

Griff wrote:Watched the game on Cardiff in a random location (which I always enjoy). Watched with mates and and a token Irish fan. From the outset I thought (as did others from both sides in the pub) that Barnes was very whistle happy. For/against both sides. So consistent. It was hard to criticise, but it was hard for the game get going. If he'd let stuff go then we (on here and in the pub) would be up in arms.

But, one thing that saddens me is the way the game is doing. That was an awful game of rugby. It was great for tension. My nerves were jangling. But it's not the game I fell in love with. It was like rugby league but, IMO, not as exciting. It was like British (and Irish) Bulldogs. Ireland did more of the attacking rugby, but it was all defence orientated stuff. I'm not a fan. Happy with a win. But this stuff will kill the game developmentally IMO.

Thing was he was consistent for the 1st half,then he started letting stuff go in the 2nd half and the players had to adjust again,crazy that one ref can change the way he sees the game in the space of 10 minutes.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

The Saint wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

"The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really."

Well maybe the Irish should stop talking about Barnes like they have been before, during and after the game? I don't understand how can sin-bin two Wales players and still be anti-irish. I think today he showed amateurs on the elite panel (Joubert) how to handle the breakdown area.

I think only one (maybe 2) poster has said he's anti-Irish,loads of us have said he's a poor ref and we don't like him but I think the fact it was said before the match shows that we aren't just reacting to the loss.He's just a consistently poor ref who makes strange decisions against both sides.I thought he was crap fromour point of view but definitely saw a few calls he got wrong that helped us too.I'm sure if I watched it back from a Welsh point of view I'd find far more,that doesn't change the fact that he's a poor ref.

Given all the chit-chat I get the impression that everyone in Ireland thinks he's anti-irish. I thought he was good, but I'm still unsure on those last two decisions, I couldn't really tell if it was the right call at the time. How can Ireland fans be so sure that they were the wrong calls though? That could be classed as strange, and also that on a couple of occasions he seemed to ignore knock-ons and forward passes, only calling the most obvious ones.

As for Mr Wood, I'm curious to hear his thoughts after the match? Or is he too busy washing the egg off his face.... The guy just hates us and Gatland with a passion, and should not be commenting on our games.