Title Decider 2: Wales v Ireland 14 March

First topic message reminder :


WALES v IRELAND
Saturday 14 March 2015
KO: 14:30
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: Wayne Barnes (RFU)
AR1: Chris Pollock (NZR)
AR2: Federico Anselmi (UAR)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

*****

The bookies are keeping with their earlier predictions of no GS winner above Ireland's chances. And same for the Triple Crown.  Though they have Ireland as favourites in Cardiff but not by much.

Given the distinct love-in that we've had over the last fortnight between Irish and English fans, are Wales now the new 'old enemy'?

Keep it clean folks.

Well a bit anyway.

Ireland team:
15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) (capt) 6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster)

Replacements: 16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 17. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 18. Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster) 19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)

Wales Team: Webb, Roberts, Biggar, North, Williams, Halfpenny, Davies, Jones, Falateau, Warburton, Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee.
Replacements: R Hibbard R Evans A Jarvis , J Ball J Tipuric , M Phillips , R Priestland , S Williams

Malbec time. When done Wales.

And cheers Keith Wood. You're a diamond.

The Saint wrote:

Given all the chit-chat I get the impression that everyone in Ireland thinks he's anti-irish. I thought he was good, but I'm still unsure on those last two decisions, I couldn't really tell if it was the right call at the time. How can Ireland fans be so sure that they were the wrong calls though? That could be classed as strange, and also that on a couple of occasions he seemed to ignore knock-ons and forward passes, only calling the most obvious ones.

As for Mr Wood, I'm curious to hear his thoughts after the match? Or is he too busy washing the egg off his face.... The guy just hates us and Gatland with a passion, and should not be commenting on our games.

I don't think we do,we just see that in games where he's the ref there are far more penalties than in games reffed by anyone else.So either he's right and every other ref is wrong or he's just not a very good ref who drags game down to stop start rugby and is inconsistent.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

I did counter,I showed you how our gameplan was completely different but executed badly and that allied to a malfunctioning setpiece meant we weren't good enough.

You haven't countered that,you've just made up something about the players changing the gameplan.Can you prove it,do you know that they haven't been working on this way of playing at training?

No, that was the first time you accused me of 'making things up' so I asked you to counter...

Ireland looked very indecisive in attack, they didn't play in a cohesive attacking manner. When behind in the second half, they looked to chase the game with no structure or awareness and it appeared to me as if it were the players pushing to change and force things than following the Schmidt tactics. This I have said above as well. I have no proof that this was not part of their training plan but it looked very adhoc to me and as if they were totally unprepared for this situation.

The Saint,

Enjoy the win, it was deserved

The Saint wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

The Saint wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

"The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really."

Well maybe the Irish should stop talking about Barnes like they have been before, during and after the game? I don't understand how can sin-bin two Wales players and still be anti-irish. I think today he showed amateurs on the elite panel (Joubert) how to handle the breakdown area.

I think only one (maybe 2) poster has said he's anti-Irish,loads of us have said he's a poor ref and we don't like him but I think the fact it was said before the match shows that we aren't just reacting to the loss.He's just a consistently poor ref who makes strange decisions against both sides.I thought he was crap fromour point of view but definitely saw a few calls he got wrong that helped us too.I'm sure if I watched it back from a Welsh point of view I'd find far more,that doesn't change the fact that he's a poor ref.

Given all the chit-chat I get the impression that everyone in Ireland thinks he's anti-irish. I thought he was good, but I'm still unsure on those last two decisions, I couldn't really tell if it was the right call at the time. How can Ireland fans be so sure that they were the wrong calls though? That could be classed as strange, and also that on a couple of occasions he seemed to ignore knock-ons and forward passes, only calling the most obvious ones.

As for Mr Wood, I'm curious to hear his thoughts after the match? Or is he too busy washing the egg off his face.... The guy just hates us and Gatland with a passion, and should not be commenting on our games.

I have no feelings about Barnes being anti-Irish, I think that's a ridiculous theory. But if you want to know why the last call on the maul was wrong, look at the sea of Welsh players falling under the maul as Ireland move toward their line and the precedent they set for a carbon copy penalty try situation ten minutes prior. The idea of Ireland collapsing to be penalised it in that situation is totally illogical and the evidence points to the contrary.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Can you counter at all or will you just say things like that?

Wales out thought Ireland and as a result were the better team.

When Ireland closed out matches, I said that they looked very vulnerable but many said they were comfortable. Will the same people say that Wales looked comfortable until the end? Wales closed out the match using the same tactics and approach that Ireland have in the first 3 matches.

So is this the part you want me to counter?

I'd say Wales weren't as comfortable as we were against France or England,we were near their line several times but they were still in a pretty good place.They couldn't lose the match at the end so there's always a degree of comfort when you're in that position.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Can you counter at all or will you just say things like that?

Wales out thought Ireland and as a result were the better team.

When Ireland closed out matches, I said that they looked very vulnerable but many said they were comfortable. Will the same people say that Wales looked comfortable until the end? Wales closed out the match using the same tactics and approach that Ireland have in the first 3 matches.

So is this the part you want me to counter?

I'd say Wales weren't as comfortable as we were against France or England,we were near their line several times but they were still in a pretty good place.They couldn't lose the match at the end so there's always a degree of comfort when you're in that position.

Then I guess we watched different matches as I believe against France and England, Ireland were under immense pressure and certainly against France, were lucky to get the win in the end.

Marshes wrote:

The Saint wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

The Saint wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

"The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really."

Well maybe the Irish should stop talking about Barnes like they have been before, during and after the game? I don't understand how can sin-bin two Wales players and still be anti-irish. I think today he showed amateurs on the elite panel (Joubert) how to handle the breakdown area.

I think only one (maybe 2) poster has said he's anti-Irish,loads of us have said he's a poor ref and we don't like him but I think the fact it was said before the match shows that we aren't just reacting to the loss.He's just a consistently poor ref who makes strange decisions against both sides.I thought he was crap fromour point of view but definitely saw a few calls he got wrong that helped us too.I'm sure if I watched it back from a Welsh point of view I'd find far more,that doesn't change the fact that he's a poor ref.

Given all the chit-chat I get the impression that everyone in Ireland thinks he's anti-irish. I thought he was good, but I'm still unsure on those last two decisions, I couldn't really tell if it was the right call at the time. How can Ireland fans be so sure that they were the wrong calls though? That could be classed as strange, and also that on a couple of occasions he seemed to ignore knock-ons and forward passes, only calling the most obvious ones.

As for Mr Wood, I'm curious to hear his thoughts after the match? Or is he too busy washing the egg off his face.... The guy just hates us and Gatland with a passion, and should not be commenting on our games.

I have no feelings about Barnes being anti-Irish, I think that's a ridiculous theory. But if you want to know why the last call on the maul was wrong, look at the sea of Welsh players falling under the maul as Ireland move toward their line and the precedent they set for a carbon copy penalty try situation ten minutes prior. The idea of Ireland collapsing to be penalised it in that situation is totally illogical and the evidence points to the contrary.

Or it could be that Ireland committed the foul thinking they'd get the benefit of the doubt knowing the previous altercations (penalty try). I don't think the yellow card offences were relevant to this situation. You have to credit Ireland for managing not to get a yellow after they were pushing the boundaries for a while.

First up Barnes had a good game overall....no complaints at all.

Secondly in terms of our game plan. It is correct that we didnt kick as much but we were very narrow and didnt look like we would make a clean break if the game went on for a week. It was up the middle bish bosh with Payne and Henshaw not attempting a pass between them. Cronin and Henderson made a big difference but while Redden did speed things up it didnt make a blind bit of difference in the end. In fact his not seeing the overlap after the quick tap penalty on 65 mins was the losing of the game.

Interesting to note that Schmidt was rather directly critical of the players afterwards..the game was very similar to the QF in the world cup. Wales just out thought us.

Logically Wales shouldn't have beaten Ireland, but did. Logic schmogic. No point overly analysing refereeing decisions butty. Analyse why your all conquering team didn't beat Wales instead, without hiding behind refereeing decisions.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:The Saint,

Enjoy the win, it was deserved

Thanks, it's a relief. I don't think we're playing that great so still not wholly satisfied. Why the addition of the _1 to your ID tag?

Great day out in Cardiff, the stadium was electric.

The Irish fans came in there thousands and despite the result were they were a pleasure to have as guests.

Wonderful day. Well played Ireland, Wales really made me proud today.

Last game Wales put in a massively clinical performance against France. But they stepped up a level today.

Sad to see injuries to key Welsh players today. Hoping they are not serious.

The Saint wrote:

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:The Saint,

Enjoy the win, it was deserved

Thanks, it's a relief. I don't think we're playing that great so still not wholly satisfied. Why the addition of the _1 to your ID tag?

Had to reinstall my OS and now V2 doesn't recognize my email address

Take a pint on me tonight

The Saint wrote:

Marshes wrote:

The Saint wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

The Saint wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

"The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really."

Well maybe the Irish should stop talking about Barnes like they have been before, during and after the game? I don't understand how can sin-bin two Wales players and still be anti-irish. I think today he showed amateurs on the elite panel (Joubert) how to handle the breakdown area.

I think only one (maybe 2) poster has said he's anti-Irish,loads of us have said he's a poor ref and we don't like him but I think the fact it was said before the match shows that we aren't just reacting to the loss.He's just a consistently poor ref who makes strange decisions against both sides.I thought he was crap fromour point of view but definitely saw a few calls he got wrong that helped us too.I'm sure if I watched it back from a Welsh point of view I'd find far more,that doesn't change the fact that he's a poor ref.

Given all the chit-chat I get the impression that everyone in Ireland thinks he's anti-irish. I thought he was good, but I'm still unsure on those last two decisions, I couldn't really tell if it was the right call at the time. How can Ireland fans be so sure that they were the wrong calls though? That could be classed as strange, and also that on a couple of occasions he seemed to ignore knock-ons and forward passes, only calling the most obvious ones.

As for Mr Wood, I'm curious to hear his thoughts after the match? Or is he too busy washing the egg off his face.... The guy just hates us and Gatland with a passion, and should not be commenting on our games.

I have no feelings about Barnes being anti-Irish, I think that's a ridiculous theory. But if you want to know why the last call on the maul was wrong, look at the sea of Welsh players falling under the maul as Ireland move toward their line and the precedent they set for a carbon copy penalty try situation ten minutes prior. The idea of Ireland collapsing to be penalised it in that situation is totally illogical and the evidence points to the contrary.

Or it could be that Ireland committed the foul thinking they'd get the benefit of the doubt knowing the previous altercations (penalty try). I don't think the yellow card offences were relevant to this situation. You have to credit Ireland for managing not to get a yellow after they were pushing the boundaries for a while.

They were three metres out and going forward. Why at that point would they try to double bluff the ref?

I know it's a cliché but we wanted it more. 2 previous drubbing and being written off meant we had the motivation. Defended with our lives.

Thought we were lucky with the last two decisions. But we were also clinical when it mattered.

Also have to say oconnell showed his class at the end. Straight over to our lads to shake hands at whistle. A legend of the game and the best lock in nh rugby for last 7 years

Also add as a side-note it was really sad to see Sampson Lee go off so early. He has been in great form and hope he is back soon.

Nachos Jones_1 wrote:

Then I guess we watched different matches as I believe against France and England, Ireland were under immense pressure and certainly against France, were lucky to get the win in the end.

Yep totally different games,we were ten points up on England and bar for one drive at our line when they were blown up for accidental offside I thought we held then out as comfortably as you can at this level.

France was a bit dodgier since a score would have given them a chance of a draw but while they stretched us a few times I don't think they ever really looked like getting a score.The longer the game went on the worse they looked as their impact subs didn't have the fitness to keep going.

It potentially is threatening his World Cup, as it's an Achilles injury and maybe a rupture

Marshes wrote:Also add as a side-note it was really sad to see Sampson Lee go off so early. He has been in great form and hope he is back soon.

Agreed, hope that he is not seriously hurt. A real talent and wish him the best.

Marshes wrote:Also add as a side-note it was really sad to see Sampson Lee go off so early. He has been in great form and hope he is back soon.

Yeah that really was unfortunate,looks like a great player and will be get a lot of caps for Wales.

Risca Rev wrote:It potentially is threatening his World Cup, as it's an Achilles injury and maybe a rupture

Not good news, he's potentially out for a year. Rushing him back will just worsen it. Francis will probably be liking his decision to play for Wales now, as surely he'll be capped next week and on his way to the RWC.

And on another note, it looks like Schmidtball has failed. Gatlandball beat Schmidtball, where was the plan B??? #cliché

Good point about Francis. I think they'll stick with Jarvis and Andrews next week though.

Mick Mac Marvelous!
Here's hoping that the Italians tune the French tomorrow.

Congrats to the Wales team. A deserved win.

In looking at the kicking stats, interesting to see that Wales kicked 29 times from hand, and Ireland a mere 18 times - quite a contrast from previous matches.

As for the ref's display - a complete waste of time commenting on him, as it is on all the other ones in other matches. They reffed the way they did - game over.
Ireland couldn't manage to take good advantage despite two yellow cards - great defence by Wales. The tackle count must be fairly high.

Makes for an exciting final day next week.

England now in the lead in the table:

England +37
Ireland +34
Wales +12.

Can Wales win and by a margin of 36-40 points against Italy in Rome?
If they do, then
Can Ireland win and by a margin of 15-20 in Murrayfield?
If they do, then
Can England win and by a margin of 12-18 in Twickenham?

It's gonna be a Super Saturday!!

Risca Rev wrote:Good point about Francis. I think they'll stick with Jarvis and Andrews next week though.

Bloody hope not. Italy have a good scrum and I don't think Gatland is that daft, he knows we need to win by at least 50. I reckon and am hoping Francis will be on the bench.

Marshes wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

You can pretend Barnes didn't have an effect on the game way the game shook out, but he did. Wales defended exceptionally well, and Ireland knocked on their best chances, but the biggest call at the end is a game decider, and big matches swing on that balance.

Be honest with yourself, when would an attacking team going forward in a maul and three metres out from a try line responsible for collapsing it? Add to that that a penalty try had already been awarded and two yellow cards for cynical play. I think he bottled that one, if it swung the other way I don't think any Welsh fans could moan about it right now.

How about as he had already warned Ireland about stepping out then driving in at the scrum earlier in the game, if he was actually favouring the Welsh he would of never given the penalty try or the card on JD2 for the attempted intercept.
The refereeing had nothing to do with the result, every decision he gave seemed pretty balanced to me, what made the difference was handling errors as Barnes had no effect on how often Ireland knocked on.

The Saint wrote:And on another note, it looks like Schmidtball has failed. Gatlandball beat Schmidtball, where was the plan B??? #cliché

Isn't that now a draw between them? i'd say Barne's balls played a part too. If he had bigger he may have made the right call at thend

GavinDragon wrote:I know it's a cliché but we wanted it more. 2 previous drubbing and being written off meant we had the motivation. Defended with our lives.

Thought we were lucky with the last two decisions. But we were also clinical when it mattered.

Also have to say oconnell showed his class at the end. Straight over to our lads to shake hands at whistle. A legend of the game and the best lock in nh rugby for last 7 years  

I have to agree regarding POC he was my MOTM he was everywhere, the best game I have seen him play he even made a couple of telling breaks.

Great to see S Williams come on he has the cutting edge that can break through defences. I assume Warburton was yellowed for totting up, I did not think it was a penalty I thoought it should have gone the other way for not releasing before he went down on one knee.

Sexton having one of his off days today, like all good 10's not every game goes to plan

I can't see Wales winning the 6N, but it has set up an interesting last weekend.

Risca Rev wrote:Logically Wales shouldn't have beaten Ireland, but did. Logic schmogic. No point overly analysing refereeing decisions butty. Analyse why your all conquering team didn't beat Wales instead, without hiding behind refereeing decisions.

Come on, very few people have been either claiming that Ireland are "all conquering" or hiding behind the referee. There is a general dislike of Barnes as a referee though, that isn't just from some irish fans but others as well. Most of the pundits were criticising his decisions at the breakdown/scrum at half time. Not just Keith Wood.

Lets not descend into a bitter squabble.

2ndtimeround wrote:

Marshes wrote:

2ndtimeround wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:I have no time for Barnes as a ref. The fact that half the comments in the thread are about him rather than the game sums him up really.

This coming from an Irish fan that never criticise/ blame a ref, following it up with "but the best team won" makes no difference at all, its still blaming the referee.

You can pretend Barnes didn't have an effect on the game way the game shook out, but he did. Wales defended exceptionally well, and Ireland knocked on their best chances, but the biggest call at the end is a game decider, and big matches swing on that balance.

Be honest with yourself, when would an attacking team going forward in a maul and three metres out from a try line responsible for collapsing it? Add to that that a penalty try had already been awarded and two yellow cards for cynical play. I think he bottled that one, if it swung the other way I don't think any Welsh fans could moan about it right now.

How about as he had already warned Ireland about stepping out then driving in at the scrum earlier in the game, if he was actually favouring the Welsh he would of never given the penalty try or the card on JD2 for the attempted intercept.
The refereeing had nothing to do with the result, every decision he gave seemed pretty balanced to me, what made the difference was handling errors as Barnes had no effect on how often Ireland knocked on.

That doesn't answer the question above. But in giving the penalty try, he has to be consistent when Wales do the exact same thing again, particularly at the death. Wales pushed the boundaries there and got away with it. As I said above, Ireland missed plenty of chances themselves through sloppy play, but doesn't change the impact that big decisions like that can have. I don't think he intentionally favoured Wales, just bottles some big calls.

In relation to the scrum, two of the penalties were for wheeling, and the only reason it was wheeling was because Baldwin was retreating that fast. There was parity on one side, and Baldwin not showing up on the other. I actually thought at times he was not engaging and just stepping back to draw the penalty.

I wonder what the reaction would be,  if a DK coached Ireland team with that much possession and territory and not making one clear cut clean break still came out on the wrong side of a loss to Wales. Clearly it would be the coaches fault?? The hypocrisy of some posters concerning Joes tactics is obvious already. We did run the ball instead of kicking (running aimlessly it might be added). Wales always looked relatively comfortable in defence and never lost their shape. We did not go wide at any time or looked as if we could get the ball wide....

anyhow the winning of the 6ns is still within our own hands and would still be a pretty good achievement...

Brian Clough defending referees and attacking critics/pundits, 35 years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqAZsoF-ghw

ME-109 wrote:I wonder what the reaction would be,  if a DK coached Ireland team with that much possession and territory and not making one clear cut clean break still came out on the wrong side of a loss to Wales. Clearly it would be the coaches fault?? The hypocrisy of some posters concerning Joes tactics is obvious already. We did run the ball instead of kicking (running aimlessly it might be added). Wales always looked relatively comfortable in defence and never lost their shape. We did not go wide at any time or looked as if we could get the ball wide....

anyhow the winning of the 6ns is still within our own hands and would still be a pretty good achievement...

The hypocrisy is all yours,you can't acknowledge that DK was given huge plaudits in his 1st year with Ireland and it was only after consistent and continued decline that the criticism came.If Ireland continue to play poorly and lose then Schmidt will come in for equal criticism,however he will have his work cut out matching some of the embarrassments that DK oversaw.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Given all the chit-chat I get the impression that everyone in Ireland thinks he's anti-irish. I thought he was good, but I'm still unsure on those last two decisions, I couldn't really tell if it was the right call at the time. How can Ireland fans be so sure that they were the wrong calls though? That could be classed as strange, and also that on a couple of occasions he seemed to ignore knock-ons and forward passes, only calling the most obvious ones.

As for Mr Wood, I'm curious to hear his thoughts after the match? Or is he too busy washing the egg off his face.... The guy just hates us and Gatland with a passion, and should not be commenting on our games.

I don't think we do,we just see that in games where he's the ref there are far more penalties than in games reffed by anyone else.So either he's right and every other ref is wrong or he's just not a very good ref who drags game down to stop start rugby and is inconsistent.

or, when the breakdown gets refereed strictly, ireland struggle to win. its that simple.

teams that cant score in open play (england for most of the last 2 decades also), rely on "legally" slowing down opposition ball, and hoping for turnover (kickable) penalties. its kind of how wales players for a couple of years except wales used the scrum as a penalty-inducing weapon.

most SH refs would also ping that match like Barnes did. its one reason why ireland get so mullered on tour in the SH and fail to deliver at RWC. they have to deal with SH teams and SH reffing.

quinsforever wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Given all the chit-chat I get the impression that everyone in Ireland thinks he's anti-irish. I thought he was good, but I'm still unsure on those last two decisions, I couldn't really tell if it was the right call at the time. How can Ireland fans be so sure that they were the wrong calls though? That could be classed as strange, and also that on a couple of occasions he seemed to ignore knock-ons and forward passes, only calling the most obvious ones.

As for Mr Wood, I'm curious to hear his thoughts after the match? Or is he too busy washing the egg off his face.... The guy just hates us and Gatland with a passion, and should not be commenting on our games.

I don't think we do,we just see that in games where he's the ref there are far more penalties than in games reffed by anyone else.So either he's right and every other ref is wrong or he's just not a very good ref who drags game down to stop start rugby and is inconsistent.

or, when the breakdown gets refereed strictly, ireland struggle to win. its that simple.

teams that cant score in open play (england for most of the last 2 decades also), rely on "legally" slowing down opposition ball, and hoping for turnover (kickable) penalties. its kind of how wales players for a couple of years except wales used the scrum as a penalty-inducing weapon.

most SH refs would also ping that match like Barnes did. its one reason why ireland get so mullered on tour in the SH and fail to deliver at RWC. they have to deal with SH teams and SH reffing.

So why don't they actually do it when we're playing,why is Barnes such a stand out statistic.If they actually reffed like you say then we wouldn't have this problem with him as it wouldn't be such an outlier.

because most of the time when you play SH teams its in Dublin. when you tour you generally get destroyed in the SH.

you asked me.

anyway, not wumming. was a great second half, the conditions for which were created by Barnes's reffing in the first half.

well deserved win. ireland must now ask themselves questions about whether winning penalties is ever going to be enough to win big matches.

quinsforever wrote:because most of the time when you play SH teams its in Dublin. when you tour you generally get destroyed in the SH.

you asked me.

Yes I did ask you and you gave a nonsense answer.Why is Barnes such an outlier,the SH refs don't blow us up like you have claimed they do so you just made that up.

quinsforever wrote:anyway, not wumming. was a great second half, the conditions for which were created by Barnes's reffing in the first half.

well deserved win. ireland must now ask themselves questions about whether winning penalties is ever going to be enough to win big matches.

So why was he so inconsistent,he didn't blow up for the same offenses in the 2nd half that he did in the 1st.Also what is up with his scrum reffing,against Wales and France he allowed scrums to continue when the hooker popped up and he allowed a scrum to continue when Lee snapped his cruciate (I think that's the injury) and needed oxygen.That was reckless,he ignored a collapsed scrum and ignored the danger to the player.

quinsforever wrote:because most of the time when you play SH teams its in Dublin. when you tour you generally get destroyed in the SH.

you asked me.

eh? Ireland do a summer tour to the SH like everyone else.

Ireland havent won on tour vs NZ, Aus or SA since 1967. Did Wayne Barnes ref any of those? dont think so. maybe he did.

the SH breakdown interpretation (which wayne barnes favours), is no sealing off, no hands or forearms on the floor before attempting to play the ball, no standing ahead of the ball blocking the ruck, and no rolling away impeding the 9 from delivering quick ball. All excellent developments if it moves the game away from the cheat fest that was that first half wales v ireland. And bravo to wayne barnes for forcing both teams to play the 2nd half that they were both capable of.

Marshes wrote:

quinsforever wrote:because most of the time when you play SH teams its in Dublin. when you tour you generally get destroyed in the SH.

you asked me.

eh? Ireland do a summer tour to the SH like everyone else.

summer tour every other year. AIs every year. feel free to count USA, Japan and Argentina as proper tours but i dont.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

quinsforever wrote:anyway, not wumming. was a great second half, the conditions for which were created by Barnes's reffing in the first half.

well deserved win. ireland must now ask themselves questions about whether winning penalties is ever going to be enough to win big matches.

So why was he so inconsistent,he didn't blow up for the same offenses in the 2nd half that he did in the 1st.Also what is up with his scrum reffing,against Wales and France he allowed scrums to continue when the hooker popped up and he allowed a scrum to continue when Lee snapped his cruciate (I think that's the injury) and needed oxygen.That was reckless,he ignored a collapsed scrum and ignored the danger to the player.

he was very consistent. i can only wish that all england's matches are reffed by someone who is as accurate and strict at the breakdown as barnes was today. would favour our ability to score from quick ball.

I love how hard Quins is trying to somehow claim some sort of moral victory for England, weeks later. It is both rather sad and very funny.

Congratulations to Wales.

Barnes put himself up there with Peter Allan and Jonathan Kaplan on the referee's hall of infamy at the MS. Both Schmidt and POC mentioned the inconsistency after the game - where in the first half he blew up after no time, in the second he let the breakdown go for an age in complete contrast. If his objective was to confuse the players he certainly succeeded.

POC may have had a good game as a player, but he made some disastrous calls as captain. Not kicking goals at 12-3 and 15-9 was frankly ridiculous. To pass up these opportunities may not only have cost Ireland the game but also the championship.

How crooked was Mike Phillips' put in at that last scrum?

Cardiff Dave wrote:How crooked was Mike Phillips' put in at that last scrum?

In fairness that was probably consistent,don't think either side put in straight all day.

rory. grow up. you are very young. time will lend you some perspective.

england won their match. not sure what sort of moral victory i would be angling for from a match they weren't involved in.

maybe i humiliated you previously in a discussion, but it does amuse me every time i post that you always attack me personally and never the content of my posts. it's a pretty obvious admission that you cant discuss that actual post on its merits.

Barnes was excellent consistent explained his decisions clearly everything you d want.