Cardiff Blues vs Connacht

First topic message reminder :

Anyone watching?

Leighton Hodges (as Assistant Referee) gave a pretty dodgy try with a perfect view of it, but the TMO prevailed.

Cardiff Blues: 15 Rhys Patchell, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Cory Allen, 12 Gavin Evans, 11 Joaquin Tuculet, 10 Gareth Anscombe, 9 Lloyd Williams; 1 Sam Hobbs, 2 Kristian Dacey, 3 Taufa'ao Filise, 4 Jarrad Hoeata, 5 Lou Reed, 6 Josh Turnbull, 7 Ellis Jenkins (c), 8 Josh Navidi

Replacements: 16 Matthew Rees, 17 Thomas Davies, 18 Scott Andrews, 19 Filo Paulo, 20 Macauley Cook, 21 Tavis Knoyle, 22 Gareth Davies, 23 Tom Isaacs

Connacht:
15 Mils Muliaina, 14 Tiernan O'Halloran, 13 Danie Poolman, 12 Dave McSharry, 11 Matt Healy, 10 Craig Ronaldson, 9 John Cooney; 1 Denis Buckley, 2 Tom McCartney, 3 Rodney Ah You, 4 Mick Kearney, 5 Aly Muldowney, 6 John Muldoon (captain), 7 Jake Heenan, 8 George Naoupu

Replacements:16 Shane Delahunt, 17 Ronan Loughney, 18 Finlay Bealham, 19 Andrew Browne, 20 Eoghan Masterson, 21 Ian Porter, 22 Jack Carty, 23 Darragh Leader

What does a coach get for being guilty?

SecretFly wrote:What does a coach get for being guilty?

A good question, Whatever an Irish Team Coach would get less than a Welsh Team Coach (TRULY ONLY JOKING)

wayne wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Had I been Lam, I would have circled those Connacht players and made them realise that the game was over and that was that - coldly and clinically.  Push their heads and minds on. He should have instantly told them to put the game behind them but be very proud of the effort they put in, both in attack but most especially in defence.  
Had I the issue then that he had with officials, I would have then dealt with it through channels in the background.

But winning or losing wasn't the important bit actually.  Rub of the green and all that happens.  But that performance at the end was important, with 14 men and every last drop of sweat used to try so hard to hold on.  That's the banker and Lam should be happy with that.  Connacht have come on a long way now under him.  Keep his focus.  Keep developing so that those close run games turn in his favour more frequently

Yes basically as I'd already said, he should have gone through the proper channels, he'll learn from this, as long as he keeps making other mistakes to allow 2 Welsh teams into the RCC, it'll be ok

What are the proper channels? From an article about the officiating last year in the Irish Times.

Rob Penney made the most telling comment this season when he revealed non-Irish referees informed him that his post-match written critiques of their performance were never relayed to them. They got lost in the ether, was how Penney explained it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/isolation-of-travelling-referees-gives-pro-12-amateurish-image-1.1785653

Well you tell me Sin. I kinda believed that this Pro12 show had someone looking after the bookwork.

Please don't tell me it's a plane with no pilot or navigator.

SecretFly wrote:Well you tell me Sin.  I kinda believed that this Pro12 show had someone looking after the bookwork.

Please don't tell me it's a plane with no pilot or navigator.

David Jordan (former CEO of Glasgow Warriors) is Tournament Director.

edit: It will be interesting to see the make-up of the Disciplinary Panel.

If he's found guilty, does that not leave real legal options open to Hodges? Libel, defamation of character etc.

Hodges has his own issues to deal with.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:If he's found guilty, does that not leave real legal options open to Hodges?  Libel, defamation of character etc.

Repercussions for the game itself, maybe?
Every ruck, maul and contact forensically examined during game time? Something to consider and there are already too many stoppages in a sport that is often chaotic with simultaneous multiple infringements.

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Had I been Lam, I would have circled those Connacht players and made them realise that the game was over and that was that - coldly and clinically.  Push their heads and minds on. He should have instantly told them to put the game behind them but be very proud of the effort they put in, both in attack but most especially in defence.  
Had I the issue then that he had with officials, I would have then dealt with it through channels in the background.

But winning or losing wasn't the important bit actually.  Rub of the green and all that happens.  But that performance at the end was important, with 14 men and every last drop of sweat used to try so hard to hold on.  That's the banker and Lam should be happy with that.  Connacht have come on a long way now under him.  Keep his focus.  Keep developing so that those close run games turn in his favour more frequently

Yes basically as I'd already said, he should have gone through the proper channels, he'll learn from this, as long as he keeps making other mistakes to allow 2 Welsh teams into the RCC, it'll be ok

What are the proper channels? From an article about the officiating last year in the Irish Times.

Rob Penney made the most telling comment this season when he revealed non-Irish referees informed him that his post-match written critiques of their performance were never relayed to them. They got lost in the ether, was how Penney explained it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/isolation-of-travelling-referees-gives-pro-12-amateurish-image-1.1785653

Well, he (LAM) should know as he has said he complained about Hodges over the car park incident, and as for their critiques not being relayed, that is surely down to someones incompetence, the critique would surely go to Ed Morrison and then find its way to the afore mentioned referee.When was this match played with the car park incident?, it is funny that this incident with Hodges happens, investigated and put to a charge within 3 days and yet the other hasn't in how long?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:If he's found guilty, does that not leave real legal options open to Hodges?  Libel, defamation of character etc.

Repercussions for the game itself, maybe?
Every ruck, maul and contact forensically examined during game time? Something to consider and there are already too many stoppages in a sport that is often chaotic with simultaneous multiple infringements.

Dai I was thinking more about these claims

Sin é wrote:Interview with Pat Lam here about it. Seems Connacht have complained about Hodges before for threatening to cost them 7pts in a game.

https://soundcloud.com/knockon-ie/pat-lam-after-cardiff-defeat

That would surely be a potential legal issue imo

LordDowlais wrote:I was there for this game, and the atmosphere in the last ten minutes was like the good old days, but Blues were crap, I thought the ref had a decent game and after watching scrum V yesterday it does look like Cuthbert knocked it on, but because he kept control of it he got away with it, but the Connacht player DID come in from the side to take the ball.

It realy makes me laugh on this forum, I have been bitching for years about how the Irish provinces always get the rub of the green from refs, now it has gone the other way, for ONE weekend there is holy hell on here, why don't you Irish fans tell yourself what you have been telling me all the time.

From watching the clip a few times, it looked to me as if a Cardiff knee hit Cuthbert's arm/ball, but he didn't lose control or knock on and placed the ball back as he's allowed to do. Ruck formed therefore, Connacht player in from the side, penalty Cardiff.

Not so funny, wayne.

Lam said what he said in public - it was recorded. Easy access then to the incident for investigators to rule on.
What Hodge's allegedly said obviously didn't happen in front of a microphone so not nearly so easy to come to decisions - be they charges or otherwise.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:If he's found guilty, does that not leave real legal options open to Hodges?  Libel, defamation of character etc.

Repercussions for the game itself, maybe?
Every ruck, maul and contact forensically examined during game time? Something to consider and there are already too many stoppages in a sport that is often chaotic with simultaneous multiple infringements.

Dai I was thinking more about these claims

Sin é wrote:Interview with Pat Lam here about it. Seems Connacht have complained about Hodges before for threatening to cost them 7pts in a game.

https://soundcloud.com/knockon-ie/pat-lam-after-cardiff-defeat

That would surely be a potential legal issue imo

I know mun.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well you tell me Sin.  I kinda believed that this Pro12 show had someone looking after the bookwork.

Please don't tell me it's a plane with no pilot or navigator.

David Jordan (former CEO of Glasgow Warriors) is Tournament Director.

edit:  It will be interesting to see the make-up of the Disciplinary Panel.

The man actually running the Pro 12 on a day to day basis is the CEO and that is John Feehan, who has the same job with the 6N and B&I Lions, who was involved in the Press Release for the Final of the Pro 12 in Belfast.

Just to add that the car parking incident match took place 2 months ago, this should have either been brought before a Disciplinary Panel or chucked out by now

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Had I been Lam, I would have circled those Connacht players and made them realise that the game was over and that was that - coldly and clinically.  Push their heads and minds on. He should have instantly told them to put the game behind them but be very proud of the effort they put in, both in attack but most especially in defence.  
Had I the issue then that he had with officials, I would have then dealt with it through channels in the background.

But winning or losing wasn't the important bit actually.  Rub of the green and all that happens.  But that performance at the end was important, with 14 men and every last drop of sweat used to try so hard to hold on.  That's the banker and Lam should be happy with that.  Connacht have come on a long way now under him.  Keep his focus.  Keep developing so that those close run games turn in his favour more frequently

Yes basically as I'd already said, he should have gone through the proper channels, he'll learn from this, as long as he keeps making other mistakes to allow 2 Welsh teams into the RCC, it'll be ok

What are the proper channels? From an article about the officiating last year in the Irish Times.

Rob Penney made the most telling comment this season when he revealed non-Irish referees informed him that his post-match written critiques of their performance were never relayed to them. They got lost in the ether, was how Penney explained it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/isolation-of-travelling-referees-gives-pro-12-amateurish-image-1.1785653

Well, he (LAM) should know as he has said he complained about Hodges over the car park incident, and as for their critiques not being relayed, that is surely down to someones incompetence, the critique would surely go to Ed Morrison and then find its way to the afore mentioned referee.When was this match played with the car park incident?, it is funny that this incident with Hodges happens, investigated and put to a charge within 3 days and yet the other hasn't in how long?

It seems Irish referees get the reports. Its the non-Irish unions who are not passing them on. Morrison has to work through the 4 unions. Mind you, he was only appointed last October.

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well you tell me Sin.  I kinda believed that this Pro12 show had someone looking after the bookwork.

Please don't tell me it's a plane with no pilot or navigator.

David Jordan (former CEO of Glasgow Warriors) is Tournament Director.

edit:  It will be interesting to see the make-up of the Disciplinary Panel.

The man actually running the Pro 12 on a day to day basis is the CEO and that is John Feehan, who has the same job with the 6N and B&I Lions, who was involved in the Press Release for the Final of the Pro 12 in Belfast.

John Feehan isn't doing the day-to-day stuff. David Jordan is the Tournament Director and would report to Feehan. There isn't a hope in hell that Feehan would be hands-on with the Pro12, particularly since the 6Ns would be the most important time of the year for him.

wayne wrote:Just to add that the car parking incident match took place 2 months ago, this should have either been brought before a Disciplinary Panel or chucked out by now

According to Pat Lam in the Irish Times, they complained to Ed Morrison about the comments Hodges made prior to the Connacht v Edinburgh game and Pat says: ''They (rugby authorities) agreed that it wasn’t on. Again that’s factual.''

Hodges should not have been let near a Connacht game so soon at a minimum. Looks like Morrison didn't take their complaint seriously.

Cardiff Dave wrote:From watching the clip a few times, it looked to me as if a Cardiff knee hit Cuthbert's arm/ball, but he didn't lose control or knock on and placed the ball back as he's allowed to do. Ruck formed therefore, Connacht player in from the side, penalty Cardiff. .

I agree, but I did not see how the ball seemed to go loose, but I thought he kept control of it as well and placed it back thus forming a ruck, and then the player did not come through the "gate". I have said this on this thread yesterday, but alas our Irish friends on here tried to convince me otherwise.

There is a gif doing the rounds where it is clear that a Cardiff knee kicks the ball out and Cuthbert puts his hand out and pulls the ball back in again.

Penalty to Connacht for Cuthbert handling the ball while still on the ground.

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Had I been Lam, I would have circled those Connacht players and made them realise that the game was over and that was that - coldly and clinically.  Push their heads and minds on. He should have instantly told them to put the game behind them but be very proud of the effort they put in, both in attack but most especially in defence.  
Had I the issue then that he had with officials, I would have then dealt with it through channels in the background.

But winning or losing wasn't the important bit actually.  Rub of the green and all that happens.  But that performance at the end was important, with 14 men and every last drop of sweat used to try so hard to hold on.  That's the banker and Lam should be happy with that.  Connacht have come on a long way now under him.  Keep his focus.  Keep developing so that those close run games turn in his favour more frequently

Yes basically as I'd already said, he should have gone through the proper channels, he'll learn from this, as long as he keeps making other mistakes to allow 2 Welsh teams into the RCC, it'll be ok

What are the proper channels? From an article about the officiating last year in the Irish Times.

Rob Penney made the most telling comment this season when he revealed non-Irish referees informed him that his post-match written critiques of their performance were never relayed to them. They got lost in the ether, was how Penney explained it.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/isolation-of-travelling-referees-gives-pro-12-amateurish-image-1.1785653

Well, he (LAM) should know as he has said he complained about Hodges over the car park incident, and as for their critiques not being relayed, that is surely down to someones incompetence, the critique would surely go to Ed Morrison and then find its way to the afore mentioned referee.When was this match played with the car park incident?, it is funny that this incident with Hodges happens, investigated and put to a charge within 3 days and yet the other hasn't in how long?

It seems Irish referees get the reports. Its the non-Irish unions who are not passing them on. Morrison has to work through the 4 unions. Mind you, he was only appointed last October.

YOU, do NOT KNOW, THIS, pure and utter conjecture on YOUR part.

Conjecture is LAW in these here parts! And I call out any man who says different!!

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well you tell me Sin.  I kinda believed that this Pro12 show had someone looking after the bookwork.

Please don't tell me it's a plane with no pilot or navigator.

David Jordan (former CEO of Glasgow Warriors) is Tournament Director.

edit:  It will be interesting to see the make-up of the Disciplinary Panel.

The man actually running the Pro 12 on a day to day basis is the CEO and that is John Feehan, who has the same job with the 6N and B&I Lions, who was involved in the Press Release for the Final of the Pro 12 in Belfast.

John Feehan isn't doing the day-to-day stuff. David Jordan is the Tournament Director and would report to Feehan. There isn't a hope in hell that Feehan would be hands-on with the Pro12, particularly since the 6Ns would be the most important time of the year for him.

Well he (Feehan) found enough time to do the Press Release of the Pro 12 Final to be staged in Ulster, and in previous seasons the welcoming notes in the Programs for Rabo, Guinness or Magners League matches have been done primarily by Jordan with a number by Andy Irvine, this season EVERY single Ospreys home fixture in the Guinness has been done by John Feehan including LAST SATURDAYS against Munster, during the 6N, you really need to cut the crap, you're quite willing to take the plaudits when things go right, when things go wrong, lets blame somebody else, one of you lot tried to blame Gerald Davies about a month or two ago, as he was the Chairman, having taken over from Irvine, it is probable by that time he had only been at one meeting

Do the WRU often use officials like Hodges in games involving their home region?

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:Just to add that the car parking incident match took place 2 months ago, this should have either been brought before a Disciplinary Panel or chucked out by now

According to Pat Lam in the Irish Times, they complained to Ed Morrison about the comments Hodges made prior to the Connacht v Edinburgh game and Pat says:  ''They (rugby authorities) agreed that it wasn’t on. Again that’s factual.''

Hodges should not have been let near a Connacht game so soon at a minimum. Looks like Morrison didn't take their complaint seriously.

You love these words don't you, FACTUAL, you're taking Lams word, so basically he (Lam) complained, it was investigated and it was not even worthy of a meeting, so a load of cowpat again.

wayne wrote: one of you lot tried to blame Gerald Davies about a month or two ago, as he was the Chairman, having taken over from Irvine, it is probable by that time he had only been at one meeting

One meeting is time enough to blame any man.  Isn't that what incoming Government parties do - accept the burden of decisions of government made before they actually took over?  "We apologise to the families that the government didn't do A, B or C (even though it wasn't really us like and don't be saying bad things about us because we weren't really there)"

One meeting - all the load

But 'you lot' are taking all this lot all too seriously.  That's my conclusion.

SecretFly wrote:

wayne wrote: one of you lot tried to blame Gerald Davies about a month or two ago, as he was the Chairman, having taken over from Irvine, it is probable by that time he had only been at one meeting

One meeting is time enough to blame any man.   Isn't that what incoming Government parties do - accept the burden of decisions of government made before they actually took over?  "We apologise to the families that the government didn't do A, B or C (even though it wasn't really us like and don't be saying bad things about us because we weren't really there)"

One meeting - all the load

But 'you lot' are taking all this lot all too seriously.  That's my conclusion.

Fly, I've said it in the past, I've said it over this incident and I'll probably say it again many times in the future, Hodges has been at fault on a number of occasions, IMO he was WRONG last Friday he cost Connacht that game, and he will cost other teams in the future, he is a very POOR Referee, he lives only about 10 or 12 miles from me and I've been told in the past, that he doesn't take the advice offered by touch judges, my take is that Lam is badly at fault, yet probably the first incident has been investigated and nothing was done, is why he has gone public on this one, to me this is a step up on the dissent shown towards Referees and needs to be clamped down on very HARD, to then try and put the blame on outside influences (Jordan) is wrong. John Feehan has been very hands on this season as CEO.

As a connacht fan, this is all very concerning, Lam should not have spoken as he did, though I agree with his words. This is now a distraction (and though i hope not) potentially an excuse to fail in a very difficult end run of matches. We are also exposed to losing all the (somewhat patronising to be fair) goodwill we have built among other fans over the years. We need to move on and focus on rugby only; when Sin e is defending us, I feel the issue has definitely jumped the shark...

The Great Aukster wrote:Do the WRU often use officials like Hodges in games involving their home region?

The regions are not like the provinces, we don't have regional refs. But for example Nigel Owens was born/raised and lives in the Scarlets region, and has been the red in Scarlets games if that is what you mean. Same with Tim Hayes, and James Jones. However our win ratio with them as the officials is rather poor, they tend to give 50-50 calls again us to avoid the cries of favouritism.

For once, and only once, I would like to see Nigel Owens ref us against an Irish province, but I doubt I will ever see that happen again.

What, you think Nigel would be biased enough to let you win????

A slur on Nigel's very good name Lord

SecretFly wrote:What, you think Nigel would be biased enough to let you win????

A slur on Nigel's very good name Lord

Nah, it's just that he is probably the best ref in the league, and it would be nice to have him reffing a Welsh side for a change, after all, the Irish sides get Irish refs, why cant we ever get him.

Maybe he doesn't want the hassle? I know we don't have an issue with him reffing and therefore wouldn't have any problem with him reffing a game involving a Welsh side.

But your words betray you Lord. You say "Irish sides get Irish refs" - that assumes you don't get Welsh ones. But of course, you do.
So the question is - do you even now trust your own Welsh refs? You have more than Nigel. No faith in them though?

SecretFly wrote:You have more than Nigel. No faith in them though? .

Bang on, youv'e got it in one, as much as I would like to see nutral referees, I am resigned to the fact that it will not happen, so every now and then I would like to see the best one of them all ref a Welsh region against a region that is not Welsh rather than have him just ref a Welsh derby. He is probably the only ref I would trust in our league.

A one ref league???

Dear Jesus.  Who would you have come in to help him out in the 'quality'?  Barnes?  Poite?  Some of those SHers that are also heavily criticised for not knowing the nuances of the NH game?

But I return to the point.  How come it has taken one of you so long to say it ain't just Irish refs that's the problem.  Well, I do recall one of you saying it a while back, being honest.  Can't remember who it was but it isn't a common cry I hear a lot in here.  Nope, what I mostly hear is Irish - ref - bias - corruption.  And of course I had to remind you yourself a while back that Welsh perceptions can be far off when compared to truth when I had to reassure you that Welsh/Irish games DO get Welsh refs... quite a number of them.

SecretFly wrote:A one ref league???

Dear Jesus.  Who would you have come in to help him out in the 'quality'?  Barnes?  Poite?  Some of those SHers that are also heavily criticised for not knowing the nuances of the NH game?

But I return to the point.  How come it has taken one of you so long to say it ain't just Irish refs that's the problem.  Well, I do recall one of you saying it a while back, being honest.  Can't remember who it was but it isn't a common cry I hear a lot in here.  Nope, what I mostly hear is Irish - ref - bias - corruption.  And of course I had to remind you yourself a while back that Welsh perceptions can be far off when compared to truth when I had to reassure you that Welsh/Irish games DO get Welsh refs... quite a number of them.

That is a bit disingenuous of you there Fly, you know very well I've criticised not only Irish but Welsh and other Nationalities Refs very recently, the only 2 very good referees in our League IMO are Owen and Lacey, who has to be said got the binning or NOT binning of Teo wrong, there are some reasonable ones, and some downright terrible ones, with Pratterson, Hodges and Wilkinson in that League, in a recent exchange with Chunky I told him many English were in the same boat, a lot of the problems come from the non use of the touch judges, especially for scrum infringements and the offside law. Let me finally add we've had 3 games in Ireland so far this season, 2 were reffed by Hennessy and the other by Mitrea, even though we lost 2 and won the other i had no real complaints about the level of their competence.

It was you then, wayne! I honestly couldn't remember if it was you or Griff or Scarlet. But I knew for a fact it wasn't Chunky or Lord

SecretFly wrote:A one ref league???

Dear Jesus.  Who would you have come in to help him out in the 'quality'?  Barnes?  Poite?  Some of those SHers that are also heavily criticised for not knowing the nuances of the NH game?

But I return to the point.  How come it has taken one of you so long to say it ain't just Irish refs that's the problem.  Well, I do recall one of you saying it a while back, being honest.  Can't remember who it was but it isn't a common cry I hear a lot in here.  Nope, what I mostly hear is Irish - ref - bias - corruption.  And of course I had to remind you yourself a while back that Welsh perceptions can be far off when compared to truth when I had to reassure you that Welsh/Irish games DO get Welsh refs... quite a number of them.

SF, when I go on about biased refs and the what not it is mostly out of frustration as the irish provinces more often than not get the rub of the green, for me it is how the league seems geared towards the Irish provinces, but before you start I am not blaming the provinces, I just think, that because of all the big sponsers of our league come from Ireland, the need to keep these sponsers interested is paramount, and the only way to do this is to make sure the Irish teams are winning, unfortunatley we do not have any massive businesess here in Wales that could sponsor the league, perhaps Brains brewery or Go Compare  but  other than that it would have to be one of the big Scottish Whiskey makers. Perhaps I could be way wide of the mark, but thats the only reason why I think the Irish provinces get so many decisions go their way each week.

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsopinions/factsopinions.html

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Well you tell me Sin.  I kinda believed that this Pro12 show had someone looking after the bookwork.

Please don't tell me it's a plane with no pilot or navigator.

David Jordan (former CEO of Glasgow Warriors) is Tournament Director.

edit:  It will be interesting to see the make-up of the Disciplinary Panel.

The man actually running the Pro 12 on a day to day basis is the CEO and that is John Feehan, who has the same job with the 6N and B&I Lions, who was involved in the Press Release for the Final of the Pro 12 in Belfast.

John Feehan isn't doing the day-to-day stuff. David Jordan is the Tournament Director and would report to Feehan. There isn't a hope in hell that Feehan would be hands-on with the Pro12, particularly since the 6Ns would be the most important time of the year for him.

Well he (Feehan) found enough time to do the Press Release of the Pro 12 Final to be staged in Ulster, and in previous seasons the welcoming notes in the Programs for Rabo, Guinness or Magners League matches have been done primarily by Jordan with a number by Andy Irvine, this season EVERY single Ospreys home fixture in the Guinness has been done by John Feehan including LAST SATURDAYS against Munster, during the 6N, you really need to cut the crap, you're quite willing to take the plaudits when things go right, when things go wrong, lets blame somebody else, one of you lot tried to blame Gerald Davies about a month or two ago, as he was the Chairman, having taken over from Irvine, it is probable by that time he had only been at one meeting

You think Feehan writes the press releases and match notes while in the middle of the 100m 6Ns tournament which he is also CEO of?

SecretFly wrote:A one ref league???

Dear Jesus.  Who would you have come in to help him out in the 'quality'?  Barnes?  Poite?  Some of those SHers that are also heavily criticised for not knowing the nuances of the NH game?

But I return to the point.  How come it has taken one of you so long to say it ain't just Irish refs that's the problem.  Well, I do recall one of you saying it a while back, being honest.  Can't remember who it was but it isn't a common cry I hear a lot in here.  Nope, what I mostly hear is Irish - ref - bias - corruption.  And of course I had to remind you yourself a while back that Welsh perceptions can be far off when compared to truth when I had to reassure you that Welsh/Irish games DO get Welsh refs... quite a number of them.

Everytime people say they want neutral refs, I do say that I would rather decent refs for decent games, and not being forced into having to have an Italian ref or a Scottish ref, who are all dire, for big games. And a fair few others have too.

wayne wrote:

Sin é wrote:

wayne wrote:Just to add that the car parking incident match took place 2 months ago, this should have either been brought before a Disciplinary Panel or chucked out by now

According to Pat Lam in the Irish Times, they complained to Ed Morrison about the comments Hodges made prior to the Connacht v Edinburgh game and Pat says:  ''They (rugby authorities) agreed that it wasn’t on. Again that’s factual.''

Hodges should not have been let near a Connacht game so soon at a minimum. Looks like Morrison didn't take their complaint seriously.

You love these words don't you, FACTUAL, you're taking Lams word, so basically he (Lam) complained, it was investigated and it was not even worthy of a meeting, so a load of cowpat again.

I'm quoting Lam - that is why that part is in inverted commas. I saw elsewhere (could have been a radio interview) where Lam said that Morrison agreed with him (Lam) that the comments that Hodges made about the points deduction "were not on''.

But, Scarlet, you don't cry for neutral refs when it is a Provincial/Regional game with a Welsh ref.
The cries only happen when the ref is 'Irish' - or Scottish but 'Irish' born.  Meaning his Scottishness wouldn't make him biased, but his Irishness potentially would.  So don't let's try to paint the mood any different now to get us past a conundrum.  

The biggest conundrum this site has faced in relation to Pro12 and refs - is Irish ones; what they do, how they ref, what they might be doing things for, and how they're always there and Welsh teams can't seem to escape them.

That's been by far the biggest issue that relates to Pro12 and reffing.  'Neutrality' of refs is a poor 2nd or even 3rd.

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:A one ref league???

Dear Jesus.  Who would you have come in to help him out in the 'quality'?  Barnes?  Poite?  Some of those SHers that are also heavily criticised for not knowing the nuances of the NH game?

But I return to the point.  How come it has taken one of you so long to say it ain't just Irish refs that's the problem.  Well, I do recall one of you saying it a while back, being honest.  Can't remember who it was but it isn't a common cry I hear a lot in here.  Nope, what I mostly hear is Irish - ref - bias - corruption.  And of course I had to remind you yourself a while back that Welsh perceptions can be far off when compared to truth when I had to reassure you that Welsh/Irish games DO get Welsh refs... quite a number of them.

SF, when I go on about biased refs and the what not it is mostly out of frustration as the irish provinces more often than not get the rub of the green, for me it is how the league seems geared towards the Irish provinces, but before you start I am not blaming the provinces, I just think, that because of all the big sponsers of our league come from Ireland, the need to keep these sponsers interested is paramount, and the only way to do this is to make sure the Irish teams are winning, unfortunatley we do not have any massive businesess here in Wales that could sponsor the league, perhaps Brains brewery or Go Compare  but  other than that it would have to be one of the big Scottish Whiskey makers. Perhaps I could be way wide of the mark, but thats the only reason why I think the Irish provinces get so many decisions go their way each week.

Maybe the Irish Provinces do better homework on the refs and what they like (I know, it shouldn't have to be like that).

As well as that, I know Munster rugby use John Lacey* for training (and I presume all the other Provinces would do the same with refs attached to them). Do any of the Welsh regions get the refs to coach them?

Lacey works fulltime for Munster Rugby as a (community) reffing coach.

Never mind the refs, the whole friggin league is geared up to suit the Irish provinces.

LordDowlais wrote:Never mind the refs, the whole friggin league is geared up to suit the Irish provinces.

And it would be a sorry mess without us.

wolfball wrote:when Sin e is defending us, I feel the issue has definitely jumped the shark...

What did I ever do to you?

Sin é wrote:Lacey works fulltime for Munster Rugby as a (community) reffing coach..

WTF is this even right ? How can a ref who is supposed to be impartial be so comfy with one of the teams that is competing in a competition that he is supposed to be nuetral in, FFS this explains a hell of a lot for me, and it does lean towards how a ref can influence a game to suit the side he is "attached" to, especially as he "WORKS" for Munster.

SecretFly wrote:But, Scarlet, you don't cry for neutral refs when it is a Provincial/Regional game with a Welsh ref.
The cries only happen when the ref is 'Irish' - or Scottish but 'Irish' born.  Meaning his Scottishness wouldn't make him biased, but his Irishness potentially would.  So don't let's try to paint the mood any different now to get us past a conundrum.  

The biggest conundrum this site has faced in relation to Pro12 and refs - is Irish ones; what they do, how they ref, what they might be doing things for, and how they're always there and Welsh teams can't seem to escape them.

That's been by far the biggest issue that relates to Pro12 and reffing.  'Neutrality' of refs is a poor 2nd or even 3rd.

You what?????? I sometimes wonder if you read anything you post, or if you just type and hope that someone somewhere will be able to decipher it.

I find it interesting that this 'spat' doesn't seemed to be mentioned on the Guinness Pro 12 site or on any partner sites (BBC Sport, S4C, TG4). We're finding out this info from those luminaries of journalism - the Western Fail (aka WalesOnline)

LORD - Nigel Owens is employed by the WRU as the Referee's Academy coach, not quite the same circumstances as John Lacey - but people (I certainly am not) could say he could 'lean' towards a result that favours a Welsh region ? Ah, no I forgot the WRU hate the regions