All Blacks less and less dominant under Hansen

First topic message reminder :

• In 2012 The All Blacks averaged 33 points with a differential of 20
• In 2013 The All Blacks averaged 31 points with a differential of 13
• In 2014 The All Blacks averaged 28 points with a differential of 11

Are they heading towards a fall?

Is Hansen the coach the New Zealand public think he is?

http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/12/03/blacks-setting-world-cup-tumble/

Where did Hansen come from?  Ands what did he do with Wales that set him up for the AB role?

The ABs try to pretend they don't value what operates abroad but they do like coaches who know how the teams abroad work and think.  Valuable stuff.... and a stint in Europe for any prospective AB coach is probably more valuable than the more publicised necessary stint back in New Zealand before they qualify for the AB job.

I hope the ABs don't come looking for Schmidt (although that's the one and only Nation I'd like him to go to in preference to us )

But Ireland will lose games.  Absolutely.  Could even be this weekend coming.  Absolutely.  We might not make our target of a semi-final at the WC.  Absolutely possible.

But I'd still want Schmidt as my ideal coach to keep up his methods, to keep making players learn from errors or games lost.  He's still a coach I'd regard above all others for his enthusiasm, his hard work, his honesty, his bloody niceness! (Kiwis and Irish - when they meet that is - there's something there.  Don't know what it is.  But I think we get each other - when we meet! - maybe not chatting across 606 airwaves )

Anyway, I'd like him to stay longterm because growth is more than simply the coming WC and he would be my choice to keep us growing.  But he tends not to be a long-term man to date.  So we'll see.

Taylorman wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Hood83 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Will Gatland take over the AB's post RWC? I'd love to see it happen

I'd plain give up if Schmidt gets the job.

Definitely

Schmidts done no more than what Gatland has with Wales. NZ doesn't need a coach that can take it from something like 8th to 3rd by just putting the right things in place to allow the team to maximise it's opportunities. Ireland are much the same side pre Schmidt with BOD probably the biggest exception, at least in terms of their key players...Sexton, POC etc. it's one thing getting a side into the main arena, another keeping it there.

In saying that Gats has done his chips On NZ. He's too NH oriented now, too set in his ways and had shown he's not the innovative type that NZ needs to keep it where it is.

Schmidts shaping well, but it's early days...give him a couple more seasons, but for sure he's starting to tick the right boxes.

There is no rush whatsoever. Take 5 years before you rate him if you like please.

He is already a far superior coach to anyone else in world rugby but that can be our secret.

GunsGerms wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

yappysnap wrote:

Hood83 wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Will Gatland take over the AB's post RWC? I'd love to see it happen

I'd plain give up if Schmidt gets the job.

Definitely

Schmidts done no more than what Gatland has with Wales. NZ doesn't need a coach that can take it from something like 8th to 3rd by just putting the right things in place to allow the team to maximise it's opportunities. Ireland are much the same side pre Schmidt with BOD probably the biggest exception, at least in terms of their key players...Sexton, POC etc. it's one thing getting a side into the main arena, another keeping it there.

In saying that Gats has done his chips On NZ. He's too NH oriented now, too set in his ways and had shown he's not the innovative type that NZ needs to keep it where it is.

Schmidts shaping well, but it's early days...give him a couple more seasons, but for sure he's starting to tick the right boxes.

There is no rush whatsoever. Take 5 years before you rate him if you like please.

He is already a far superior coach to anyone else in world rugby but that can be our secret.

Yes that can be your little secret guns... Like a brand new laser gun at Xmas that no one wants to share.

Schmidts undoing in the NH in the end will be a lack of playing resources when his run of luck runs out, certain injuries will have his side falling back to the pelaton pretty quickly, but you don't see those sorts of things when you're too busy riding the waves Guns, we understand that, bit like just before the lasers batteries go flat, and the little tears start...

but hey...ride it while it lasts...

Everyone’s beatable in a Cup. The tournament has a complete disregard for consistency-once it’s QF time if you lose you’re gone. NZ wins 3 out of 4 games. So it’s entirely stats appropriate to lose one as it’s in line with the 1 loss out of 4 (especially 7 in a WC).

The “This side isn’t great because the other teams are weak” is a load of crap. Not many dared to mention in 2003 that it was SA’s worst ever side, nor that NZ was in its worst ever run from 98-04. You play what’s in front of you.

If we’re going by trends Hansen’s years have gone: 1 draw and 1 loss, perfect, 1 draw and 1 loss. So this year will be perfect. Silly? Yep, but so is all that closing the gap talk. Most teams are capable of beating New Zealand in one game. This is magnified in a World Cup. But try beating them in ten.

Everyone’s got favourites so the best ever chat is subjective. However the stats demand serious consideration. Woodward said this isn’t the best ever NZ side of all time-well what is the best? How far do you go back? Their record over the last 11 years has been 15% better than Woodward’s own era. Food for thought? Yup-but all it takes is just one game apparently.

Look at the depth Hansen’s introduced since 2011, compare the stats, and tell me he’s not a good coach.

All the New Zealanders here think Hansen is doing a good job. That says it all if you ask me. Because they'd be scrutinizing him more than anyone and would be the first to criticize him if he was falling short in his duties.

Is anyone other than the OP trying to suggest that Hansen is anything other than a complete and utter success?

Henry's All blacks were close to being the greatest sports team i have ever seen - pushing the likes of Waugh's Australian side or Paisley's Liverpool.

Hansen's team has been evolving and is better. A large part of me would love them to win the RWC in style (as opposed to stumbling over the line as in 2011) because they deserve it. They are probably the greatest team I have ever seen in any sport.

Taylorman wrote:Yes that can be your little secret guns... Like a brand new laser gun at Xmas that no one wants to share.

Schmidts undoing in the NH in the end will be a lack of playing resources when his run of luck runs out, certain injuries will have his side falling back to the pelaton pretty quickly, but you don't see those sorts of things when you're too busy riding the waves Guns, we understand that, bit like just before the lasers batteries go flat, and the little tears start...

but hey...ride it while it lasts...

I knew it, I knew it, ... it was luck all along. Keep it quiet long enough to allow Ireland to sign a few big sponsorship deals before the media hype bursts and they slip back into plucky mediocrity for another 60 years.

Yeah FecklessRouge, you are right.

Not just the kiwis on here but kiwis throughout NZ. I think you could say that there is universal agreement that Hansen is doing a good job and there is absolutely no talk of alternatives at this point in time. The NZRU couldn't sign Hansen up again fast enough and there was relief around the country when he did extend his contract.

In recent memory, no AB coach has had such unilateral support. Hart, Mains, Mitchell, Henry, etc all had vocal critics that would question their roles. You honestly don't get this with Hansen. No doubt it's related to Hansen's record but he also resonates well with kiwis. He's opened up more and accepts the media have an important roll, he calls a spade a spade, makes tough decisions (dropping Cruden etc), plays a style of rugby NZ'ers enjoy, isn't a space cadet like Mitchell, doesn't get unnecessarily defensive and grumpy (like Henry), etc.

Guns can claim Schmidt is the best coach in world rugby but the Welsh probably thought the same about Gatland when they were riding high. The thing with Hansen and the ABs, is that they switch between Plan A, B and C in a single game (20 min bursts of scoring) and that requires some coaching to instill that ethos and pull it off. Guns will say they can only do that because of the talent we have but that's a weak argument.

Ireland and Schmidt seem to be rocking along nicely but I think the next cab of the rank for the ABs coaching role will be Dave Rennie. He's a guy that seems to be similar in character to Hansen, a bit dry, mildly grumpy, no nonsense, is clearly a good coach that coaches a style pleasing to NZ'ers and has a proven winning club track record. I wonder if Schmidt would be a good fit for the ABs, any kiwis here have an opinion on that?

Schmidt has had a very good run since leaving NZ and has had more than his share of successes. His former roles here were mainly as assistant but with a blend of NZ and overseas experience he's in a great space at the moment. Heineken, 6N and now gets to test himself on the main stage.

I'd say the next lead coach will have to either join Hansens setup first..I.e. Someone like Schmidt, or, come from the SXV. Knowing the latest trends in NZ domestic rugby, the players, the latest coaching methods...finger on the pulse stuff...our pulse that is.

The thing I like about Hansen is rather than sit back on his laurels with a number 1 side, winning most matches, he is always questioning the status quo, always looking at where the game is going, or could go. I think that's come from Wayne Smith more than anyone.

His recent 'boring' comments for example gets jumped on by folk who think it's a conspiracy, mind games...hoodoo playing, when it's purely an example of his knowing and questioning the direction the game is going in and how it impacts on the core values of how NZ like to watch and play the game. It's gotta be fun, fast and entertaining. And current trends aren't reflecting that.

Under the current laws things have reverted in some ways to the old days.Lesson one
first name on your team sheet your best goalkicker preferably two on at same time.
As many tries are scored from rolling mauls or pick and goes as in flowing line moves
fact is NZ have a dilemma.Slade is a solid 10 and a excellent goal kicker,ditto Tom Taylor
either could run the ship in current side easily.
Cruden is arguably the best attacking 10 currently in world rugby but his goal kicking isn`t,
Barrett is another fine attacker but again wayward goal kick wise.
Hansen has contracted till at least 2016 and a win/loss ratio of 38-2-2 matches the stats of
most sides even there illustrious 1960`s forbears[4 losses in 10 years]
Australia and France usually have good RWC`s no matter what other series occur so no
major side can be written off.

You might be interested in this emack

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11415725

I like Slade but I prefer Cruden running the ship. But Cruden hasn't been good I agree. Just think we are missing something with Slade in terms of attack, getting the ball over the advantage line but we'll see. Its a good problem to have and in terms of goal kicking I think Slade has THE best goal kicking action in the game. Beautiful rhythm and timing.

If he's going for 10 Hansen had better start playing him there, and will need Blackadder on his side at the saders.

I would retain Cruden though, purely for his ability to break down a defence by attacking the line. Put Slade and Barrett on at 60.

Biltong wrote:The rise and fall of trams is just a myth.

Everyone is where they are supposed to be in pecking order most of the time.

There are temporary abnormalities, but they usually never lsst.

Are you actually God Biltong?

Its just that every post of yours is so definitive, as if written with the authority of someone who knows well, everything.

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:The rise and fall of trams is just a myth.

Everyone is where they are supposed to be in pecking order most of the time.

There are temporary abnormalities, but they usually never lsst.

Are you actually God Biltong?

Its just that every post of yours is so definitive, as if written with the authority of someone who knows well, everything.

Gwlad, no I am not God, and that is such a stupid comment, go look at the history of rugby union over the last 100 years, then see the abnormalities where a team has either dipped or risen above their norm. Then come back to me and apologize for your blasphemy.

Tramlines comment is apposite since 1905/6 with brief exceptions NZ/SA have been the
best two sides in the World.
How many matches have SA lost recently except to Nz or Aus ?

Two since the last RWC

Biltong wrote:
Gwlad, no I am not God, and that is such a stupid comment, go look at the history of rugby union over the last 100 years, then see the abnormalities where a team has either dipped or risen above their norm. Then come back to me and apologize for your blasphemy.

  Oh I love smart nips at the end.  They're my favourite.

My RWC dream-case scenario: RWC final NZ vs Ireland.

That would mean NZ beat the Boks (sorry Biltong) and Ireland beat whoever they please on the other side of the draw.

Ireland are then touted as favourites and the NH media choose them to pick up their first ever win at the most opportune and prestigious moment.

It wouldn't be undeserved or too far off the mark. But that's why it would be my ideal situation because when people dismiss NZ or think their coach or players are not up to much then that's when they're at their most dangerous. When they are expected to walk it and take what isn't rightfully theirs but are touted as such, that's when they're at their most vulnerable.

So Schmidt + consistent Ireland executing basics well = media interest and pressure placed on Ireland and taken off NZ.

So Guns, yes I very much agree, Schmidt and Ireland are the world's best and NZ are declining under Hansen like their namesake Hanson who have since cut their hair and their voices have dropped but have taken to drugs and alcohol.

That's a good one kia. A final between Ireland and NZ (NZ having beaten the Boks) and Ireland as favourites???

Yeah............... Looks oh so probable.

Yeah, I kinda like to see SA vs Ireland

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:

So Guns, yes I very much agree, Schmidt and Ireland are the world's best and NZ are declining under Hansen like their namesake Hanson who have since cut their hair and their voices have dropped but have taken to drugs and alcohol.

No I never said Ireland are the worlds best. I think Schmidt is the best coach in the world but that's different.

Yes Ireland v NZ final would be my dream scenario too. If ever there was a time to pick up your first win v NZ it would be then. 1 win v NZ in the RWC final > than 20 wins by NZ v Ireland IMO.

Ireland will play NZ.

It'll be in the quarter-finals though.

Cyril wrote:Ireland will play NZ.

It'll be in the quarter-finals though.

love it, Cyril you are a sly pup

I'm sure Guns would take the win vs NZ in the QF too!

Be an interesting scenario though were the final to happen that way-we want the cup so much that it inhibits our performance, coupled with Ireland's desperation to beat NZ for the first time that it inhibits theirs.

disneychilly wrote:I'm sure Guns would take the win vs NZ in the QF too!

Be an interesting scenario though were the final to happen that way-we want the cup so much that it inhibits our performance, coupled with Ireland's desperation to beat NZ for the first time that it inhibits theirs.

If Ireland got to the RWC Final (which i doubt, a semi is our extent, great coach or not, it takes experience in those higher RWC echelons to close games) to play NZ we have maybe (MAYBE) a 15-20% chance of winning that. The psychological burden is infinitely greater for Ireland having never beaten NZ, than NZ and their World Cup hang ups. SA is a different story, as we know how to beat them, and we have closer to a 50/50 shot against them. So, NZ beating SA on the other side of the draw would do very nicely for us, or whoever else gets to the final.

That would be some bizarre Headline the next day after Ireland capitulates to NZ due to too much 'desperation' in trying to get that one ever elusive win:

Ireland CHOKES against the All Blacks!!!!.

I think I'd take that as a victory of sorts considering how often the great Blacks themselves have been accused of it.

..anyway, it's all just a fantasy.  Ain't ever going to happen.
The World Rugby CEO has declared he wants England to go a long way.  So, a pre-planned 'what-the-neutral-fans-would-wish-for' England v Romania final it is then

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:The rise and fall of trams is just a myth.

Everyone is where they are supposed to be in pecking order most of the time.

There are temporary abnormalities, but they usually never lsst.

Are you actually God Biltong?

Its just that every post of yours is so definitive, as if written with the authority of someone who knows well, everything.

Gwlad, no I am not God, and that is such a stupid comment, go look at the history of rugby union over the last 100 years, then see the abnormalities where a team has either dipped or risen above their norm. Then come back to me and apologize for your blasphemy.

no need, you obviously know everything so i will just take your word for it. Hail.

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:The rise and fall of trams is just a myth.

Everyone is where they are supposed to be in pecking order most of the time.

There are temporary abnormalities, but they usually never lsst.

Are you actually God Biltong?

Its just that every post of yours is so definitive, as if written with the authority of someone who knows well, everything.

Gwlad, no I am not God, and that is such a stupid comment, go look at the history of rugby union over the last 100 years, then see the abnormalities where a team has either dipped or risen above their norm. Then come back to me and apologize for your blasphemy.

no need, you obviously know everything so i will just take your word for it. Hail.

Your ability to debate constructively is on par with your ability to admit when you are incorrectly showing your ignorance and arrogance.

SecretFly wrote:That would be some bizarre Headline the next day after Ireland capitulates to NZ due to too much 'desperation' in trying to get that one ever elusive win:

Ireland CHOKES against the All Blacks!!!!.

I think I'd take that as a victory of sorts considering how often the great Blacks themselves have been accused of it.

Ah doesn't every side that loses choke?

disneychilly wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That would be some bizarre Headline the next day after Ireland capitulates to NZ due to too much 'desperation' in trying to get that one ever elusive win:

Ireland CHOKES against the All Blacks!!!!.

I think I'd take that as a victory of sorts considering how often the great Blacks themselves have been accused of it.

Ah doesn't every side that loses choke?

No...that's an 'honour' title given to sides that should have won.  I always used to laugh at AB fans that often got annoyed at their side being called 'chokers' - to me it represented the snivelling, grumbling regard of the taunters.  It was a badge of honour the goaders couldn't claim for themselves.  It was saying that the only side that beat the ABs was themselves.

Other sides that lose are simply either 'thrashed', 'well beaten, 'shamed', 'blasted', 'scr*wed', 'shafted', 'bullied', 'crucified' etc etc.

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:The rise and fall of trams is just a myth.

Everyone is where they are supposed to be in pecking order most of the time.

There are temporary abnormalities, but they usually never lsst.

Are you actually God Biltong?

Its just that every post of yours is so definitive, as if written with the authority of someone who knows well, everything.

Gwlad, no I am not God, and that is such a stupid comment, go look at the history of rugby union over the last 100 years, then see the abnormalities where a team has either dipped or risen above their norm. Then come back to me and apologize for your blasphemy.

no need, you obviously know everything so i will just take your word for it. Hail.

Your ability to debate constructively is on par with your ability to admit when you are incorrectly showing your ignorance and arrogance.

Like i said, you know everything Biltong. I suggest you find someone else to lecture about your omnipotence.

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:The rise and fall of trams is just a myth.

Everyone is where they are supposed to be in pecking order most of the time.

There are temporary abnormalities, but they usually never lsst.

Are you actually God Biltong?

Its just that every post of yours is so definitive, as if written with the authority of someone who knows well, everything.

Gwlad, no I am not God, and that is such a stupid comment, go look at the history of rugby union over the last 100 years, then see the abnormalities where a team has either dipped or risen above their norm. Then come back to me and apologize for your blasphemy.

no need, you obviously know everything so i will just take your word for it. Hail.

Your ability to debate constructively is on par with your ability to admit when you are incorrectly showing your ignorance and arrogance.

Like i said, you know everything Biltong. I suggest you find someone else to lecture about your omnipotence.

Hey little man, can you actually tell me why you took such obvious offence to my intial statement?

Does your little brain not accept harsh realities and therefor rejects it?

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:The rise and fall of trams is just a myth.

Everyone is where they are supposed to be in pecking order most of the time.

There are temporary abnormalities, but they usually never lsst.

Are you actually God Biltong?

Its just that every post of yours is so definitive, as if written with the authority of someone who knows well, everything.

Gwlad, no I am not God, and that is such a stupid comment, go look at the history of rugby union over the last 100 years, then see the abnormalities where a team has either dipped or risen above their norm. Then come back to me and apologize for your blasphemy.

no need, you obviously know everything so i will just take your word for it. Hail.

Your ability to debate constructively is on par with your ability to admit when you are incorrectly showing your ignorance and arrogance.

Like i said, you know everything Biltong. I suggest you find someone else to lecture about your omnipotence.

Hey little man, can you actually tell me why you took such obvious offence to my intial statement?



Does your little brain not accept harsh realities and therefor rejects it?

Oh dear, a keyboard warrior Mod, that's hilarious. Must create all sorts of dissonance for your HUGE brain that one! But at last you are wrong with your personal attack…I am 6ft 3 and 295lbs.

Give it up and find another poster to enlighten.

Little man? Little brain? Come on.

disneychilly wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That would be some bizarre Headline the next day after Ireland capitulates to NZ due to too much 'desperation' in trying to get that one ever elusive win:

Ireland CHOKES against the All Blacks!!!!.

I think I'd take that as a victory of sorts considering how often the great Blacks themselves have been accused of it.

Ah doesn't every side that loses choke?

No just the All blacks.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Little man? Little brain? Come on.

So he can call me God, but I can't call him little brain?

Best you leave us to ourselves

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:The rise and fall of trams is just a myth.

Everyone is where they are supposed to be in pecking order most of the time.

There are temporary abnormalities, but they usually never lsst.

Are you actually God Biltong?

Its just that every post of yours is so definitive, as if written with the authority of someone who knows well, everything.

Gwlad, no I am not God, and that is such a stupid comment, go look at the history of rugby union over the last 100 years, then see the abnormalities where a team has either dipped or risen above their norm. Then come back to me and apologize for your blasphemy.

no need, you obviously know everything so i will just take your word for it. Hail.

Your ability to debate constructively is on par with your ability to admit when you are incorrectly showing your ignorance and arrogance.

Like i said, you know everything Biltong. I suggest you find someone else to lecture about your omnipotence.

Hey little man, can you actually tell me why you took such obvious offence to my intial statement?



Does your little brain not accept harsh realities and therefor rejects it?

Oh dear, a keyboard warrior Mod, that's hilarious. Must create all sorts of dissonance for your HUGE brain that one! But at last you are wrong with your personal attack…I am 6ft 3 and 295lbs.

Give it up and find another poster to enlighten.

Hmmm, the go to argument when nothing else comes to mind, eh?

Leave the mod out of this, I am a poster first.

Theres no need to throw insults.

You are correct, and normally I don't partake in insult throwing, however I took deep offense to his first post about my initial comment.

Biltong wrote:You are correct, and normally I don't partake in insult throwing, however I took deep offense to his first post about my initial comment.

In my opinion making personal remarks about brain or body size on an internet forum is quite possibly the stupidest thing anyone can do, so i take back my assertion you must be God. Instead of rising above the deep offenCe you must have felt by my suggesting your definitive posting style indicated a knowledge of all things on an almost deity like level, you broke house rules and started to engage in petty remarks about the size of my brain and body. I have just found religion in the last 2 minutes and I can see why me asking if you were God is deeply offensive, I sincerely apologize.

By the way, talking of go to arguments, whenever you engage in a 'little' personal attack and are called on it, you say you are poster first and mod second. Absolutely sure i don't need to point out the hypocrisy in that little pearler.

Have a spiffing day and MOD or poster, lay off the little man stuff eh there's a good chap, it is just er, stupid as you call people on it all the time and yet it seems you have a different set of rules.

Attack the post not the poster, even if he was God.

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:You are correct, and normally I don't partake in insult throwing, however I took deep offense to his first post about my initial comment.

In my opinion making personal remarks about brain or body size on an internet forum is quite possibly the stupidest thing anyone can do, so i take back my assertion you must be God. Instead of rising above the deep offenCe you must have felt by my suggesting your definitive posting style indicated a knowledge of all things on an almost deity like level, you broke house rules and started to engage in petty remarks about the size of my brain and body. I have just found religion in the last 2 minutes and I can see why me asking if you were God is deeply offensive, I sincerely apologize.

By the way, talking of go to arguments, whenever you engage in a 'little' personal attack and are called on it, you say you are poster first and mod second. Absolutely sure i don't need to point out the hypocrisy in that little pearler.

Have a spiffing day and MOD or poster, lay off the little man stuff eh there's a good chap, it is just er, stupid as you call people on it all the time and yet it seems you have a different set of rules.

Attack the post not the poster, even if he was God.

If I was a hypocrite, I would have used my mod powers to threaten you. Better to call me stupid than God. At least we're getting somewhere

Biltong wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Biltong wrote:You are correct, and normally I don't partake in insult throwing, however I took deep offense to his first post about my initial comment.

In my opinion making personal remarks about brain or body size on an internet forum is quite possibly the stupidest thing anyone can do, so i take back my assertion you must be God. Instead of rising above the deep offenCe you must have felt by my suggesting your definitive posting style indicated a knowledge of all things on an almost deity like level, you broke house rules and started to engage in petty remarks about the size of my brain and body. I have just found religion in the last 2 minutes and I can see why me asking if you were God is deeply offensive, I sincerely apologize.

By the way, talking of go to arguments, whenever you engage in a 'little' personal attack and are called on it, you say you are poster first and mod second. Absolutely sure i don't need to point out the hypocrisy in that little pearler.

Have a spiffing day and MOD or poster, lay off the little man stuff eh there's a good chap, it is just er, stupid as you call people on it all the time and yet it seems you have a different set of rules.

Attack the post not the poster, even if he was God.

If I was a hypocrite, I would have used my mod powers to threaten you. Better to call me stupid than God. At least we're getting somewhere  

As a great man once said, stupid is as stupid does

Please don't use your MOD POWERS on me

So.

This thread has been completely destroyed by the childish bickering of two people I see.

Yes. I am entitled to destroy one thread s year, like everyone else

GunsGerms wrote:

disneychilly wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That would be some bizarre Headline the next day after Ireland capitulates to NZ due to too much 'desperation' in trying to get that one ever elusive win:

Ireland CHOKES against the All Blacks!!!!.

I think I'd take that as a victory of sorts considering how often the great Blacks themselves have been accused of it.

Ah doesn't every side that loses choke?

No just the All blacks.

Ireland resembled choking in the 2013 EOYT match but I think losing had done more for them than winning. They're now on a streak and much better for it. Same as NZS loss to England in 2012. The result being a wake up call and the best pro era season of 100% followed, where England got nothing but inflamed egos from their win, and nothing to show for it, and have been back at the drawing board since.

Choking is about being obvious favourites and not carrying the result. So Ireland can never choke versus the ABs when they are never expected to win, although with five to go, Sexton had a chance to end the long streak, and choked on, for him, a relatively easy kick.

An Ireland win over the ABs in the final would put all the little devils asleep beautifully I'd say but I don't think Ireland will win any semi they're involved in. They're on a good roll, but that's only been recent, and I'd be concerned about Sextons ability to either last without being injured, or, handle the occasion. The pressure would be immense, and if it's taken him till 29 to finally mature as a leading 10, there's cetainly room for self doubt to kick in under that pressure.

I actually reckon that we still could have won if Sexton had gotten the kick. We were 8 down with 5 to go against SA in Soweto and did the business there.

You can put that game down to tiredness, choking, whatever, but the fact is Ireland scored 0 points in the 2nd half. Has any team, ever, done that against NZ and won? Emack I'm calling you out you'd know better than most on this haha.

I reckon they could spoil England's party at the semi stage. They're good enough. But they could do a France and go all out only to have nothing left in the tank for the next game.

Sorry Guns gotta disagree there. If Ireland couldn't handle the pressure of a meagre Autumn International, how are they going to cope with a WC semi? Uncharted territory...Plus if you call losing to the Boks at Ellis Park in the dying minutes choking then you're a very hard taskmaster and one that should read up on how damn good South Africa are in Johannesburg.

disneychilly wrote:
You can put that game down to tiredness, choking, whatever, but the fact is Ireland scored 0 points in the 2nd half. Has any team, ever, done that against NZ and won?

8 teams have failed to score against the AB's and gone onto win. The last of these was Australia in '82. The Wallabies were 19-3 up at halftime. They conceded 16 points in the second half and won.

Wooh...dunno DC, I thought we were sunk if that kick went over. Yep Ireland and Schmidt will see all this as a challenge and a barrier to be broken...and so they should, they're in exactly the right position to do so.

Pretty simple for Ireland. They must win their match versus France at millennium to get a QF with likely Argentina rather than NZ, and avoid NZ till the final, and in a position where they have beaten anyone on their side recently. But that is no gimme, their first real pressure match in the last poll match.

Pretty sure the ABs would rather play Ireland despite being a better side. It's the French unpredictability that is disconcerting.

Then a likely semi versus England or Aus (sorry Wales, Scotland) at Twickenham. I'm guessing oz being more successful in that position at the venue. That's the big one for Ireland.

Get past that and certainly a  final versus SA or NZ being the most likely can be won.

But that semi is the biggest hurdle Ireland will ever face.

At that point, they'll have needed to play their best side, including Sexton versus France and Argie in successive matches to get there. And they will be tough. Thats where injuries could kick in, if they survive both those matches.

NZ have Argie first so have a lot of flexibility in resource management with Namibia, Georgia then Tonga as the last matches. I think Hansen doesn't want match play so much as 'freshness' going into the knockouts this time which is why he tried seconds versus Scotland to be fresh for Wales in the EOYT.

Look at Ireland...they'll be absolutely stuffed after France and Argie in successive matches.

That's why the semi is huge for them. It's also why I believe there isn't a lot of running rugby towards the final stages... Cos everyone's stuffed. Look at SA versus England in 07- pool then final. Then France versus NZ 2011. Both hidings in pool, less so in the final. Hansen knows that.and I think wants a fresh side for semis and final should they get there. Giving the top side match play versus those three sides won't give us anything. In 07 we massacred them and it gave us no advantage. Resting key players in pool will leave us fresh for the knockouts, where everyone else will be stuffed. That's the ingredient I think previous AB sides haven't latched on to.

blackcanelion wrote:

disneychilly wrote:
You can put that game down to tiredness, choking, whatever, but the fact is Ireland scored 0 points in the 2nd half. Has any team, ever, done that against NZ and won?

8 teams have failed to score against the AB's and gone onto win. The last of these was Australia in '82. The Wallabies were 19-3 up at halftime. They conceded 16 points in the second half and won.

OK I am confused. Australia led by 16 at half time. scored Zero points in the second half and conceded 16. Surely that shoudl have been a draw rather than an aus win?