Is Kovalev The Best Light Heavyweight Since Roy Jones?

Champions since Jones:

Johnson
Tarver
Dawson
Hopkins
Calzaghe
Pascal
Stevenson

Maybe after Calzaghe.

Always find it hard to call calzaghe a LHW given he had 2 fights one of which was against the ghost of RJJ but the hopkins win looks better as the years have gone by

I'd say calazaghe is the best, this his far superior hand speed, skills and workrate edge it for him over kovalevs power and size but its hard to guess as he hast fought anyone like Joe

Also its hard to accurately call if he beats stevenson or not. Yea hes the favourtie in my eyes but if hoppo and jean can buckle kovo then stevenson can knock him out with his big power and sharp counterpunching

Think he could be the best seeing how his next 2/3 opponents play out

Yes.

Probably. Beating Stevenson would cement it beyond any doubt for me, though.

Tarver is probably closest to Stevenson in terms of style and what he was capable of bringing to the table and I think the 2003 / 2004 version of Tarver would be good enough to give Kovalev a stern examination. Left-handed, cagey, good counter puncher who pulled out fights from nowhere (Harding II, Jones II) and not bad defensively etc. However Kovalev-Stevenson pans out might be a decent indicator to how Kovalev-Tarver could have looked. Either way, while he might have been a bogey man to Kovalev, Tarver flattered to deceive a bit too often and the losses to Jones, Johnson and Hopkins put him out of contention.

Not sure if I'd really rate Calzaghe as highly as that at 175, Shah. A scrappy split decision in a stinker against a past-prime (but still pretty good nonetheless) Hopkins and a points win over the charred remains of Jones - safe to say neither were amongst his best performances. Hard to tell if that's just reflective of the fact that he himself was past his physical prime by the age of 36 or if it's more indicative of him just being better-suited to Super-Middleweight regardless of how old he was, but I think it's probably a bit of both. Despite dropping that decision to Calzaghe, given how close it was I think Hopkins possibly makes up the ground with mostly dominant wins over Tarver, Pascal, Cloud and Shumenov. Calzaghe might beat some of the guys on the list (think Kovalev beats the Light-Heavy Calzaghe we saw in 2008, though) but they have extensive records at the weight, whereas for all intents and purposes Calzaghe has one fight.

But anyway, it's still in the balance at the moment. If he beats Adonis then it'd be hard to make a case for anyone else.

I don't rate JC at LHW. He's a great SMW but his record at LHW is nothing more special than Haye's as a HW.

Think Kov needs the Stevenson win to top the pile.

88Chris05 wrote:Probably. Beating Stevenson would cement it beyond any doubt for me, though.

Tarver is probably closest to Stevenson in terms of style and what he was capable of bringing to the table and I think the 2003 / 2004 version of Tarver would be good enough to give Kovalev a stern examination. Left-handed, cagey, good counter puncher who pulled out fights from nowhere (Harding II, Jones II) and not bad defensively etc. However Kovalev-Stevenson pans out might be a decent indicator to how Kovalev-Tarver could have looked. Either way, while he might have been a bogey man to Kovalev, Tarver flattered to deceive a bit too often and the losses to Jones, Johnson and Hopkins put him out of contention.

Not sure if I'd really rate Calzaghe as highly as that at 175, Shah. A scrappy split decision in a stinker against a past-prime (but still pretty good nonetheless) Hopkins and a points win over the charred remains of Jones - safe to say neither were amongst his best performances. Hard to tell if that's just reflective of the fact that he himself was past his physical prime by the age of 36 or if it's more indicative of him just being better-suited to Super-Middleweight regardless of how old he was, but I think it's probably a bit of both. Despite dropping that decision to Calzaghe, given how close it was I think Hopkins possibly makes up the ground with mostly dominant wins over Tarver, Pascal, Cloud and Shumenov. Calzaghe might beat some of the guys on the list (think Kovalev beats the Light-Heavy Calzaghe we saw in 2008, though) but they have extensive records at the weight, whereas for all intents and purposes Calzaghe has one fight.

But anyway, it's still in the balance at the moment. If he beats Adonis then it'd be hard to make a case for anyone else.

All that is probably true but with the absence of real hard data on all of em but hopkins I've resorted to giving more value to head to head, and even that version of Calzaghe has too much for Kovalev. Mostly down to style. With regards to hopkins, he makes everyone look bad and with regards to jones - think even he knew it was a dud hence his clowning around like Roy did to mccallum. Think Kovalev has two gears, bang bang bang, and bang ..bang. I just don't think he can handle the wily Calzaghe at all. Think Joe has the beating of all the guys that Hopkins beat, so easily that I could no more rank them ahead of him as I could Audley in front of Haye, but on reflection, Hopkins does have 4 decent wins to Joes one. So Hopkins first, Calzaghe second and Kovalev/stevenson only for the moment third. I think though, him and stevenson are each other away from going to the top so the difference is tiny.

Sorry, just had a fire at work, mind is a bit muddled so probably missed something vital there.

Kovalev would make short work of Calzaghe.

Joe was a very good super middleweight though.

Herman Jaeger wrote:Kovalev would make short work of Calzaghe.

Joe was a very good super middleweight though.

Perhaps, but Joe would still beat Froch even now.

ShahenshahG wrote:

Herman Jaeger wrote:Kovalev would make short work of Calzaghe.

Joe was a very good super middleweight though.

Perhaps, but Joe would still beat Froch even now.

Sure he would.

THE PROLETARIAT WILL BURN. EMBERS ARE CHERISHED IN THE KINGDOM OF THE MIGHTY ONE'S SOUL.

Don't get me wrong, Shah, I think Kovalev-Calzaghe at Light-Heavy is a great fight. As I said earlier, I think Calzaghe was better suited to 168 (and Kovalev is as genuine a Light-Heavy as they come) but I also think he'd have been a better 175 pounder had he given it a go in, say, 2003 rather than 2008. Against the 2008 version of Joe I make Kovalev favourite (not a dead cert by any means) but against the 2003 version I might go the other way....Problem being that this version of a Light-Heavyweight Calzaghe is an imaginary one.

Think there is something of a general vibe now to do Calzaghe a disservice. Often see it said on here Ward beats him without too much trouble and now Sergey does likewise. Not saying for either of these are necessarily untrue, but think there is certainly enough grey area to make either fight a tough one to call. Joe was a good fighter, perhaps not always particularly aesthetically pleasing, but a decent chin, respectable but not chilling power, an excellent work rate and a decent ability to make changes and technical adjustments mid fight make him a tough nights work for most you’d care to mention in the current era, Sergey and Ward included. Hard to judge him at light heavy as he moved up when he had lost a step, but even at that stage he causes Kovalev problems, the worry is around his chin though as it did appear late in his career his chin was getting a little less solid, which is obviously a huge issue against a puncher like Kovalev.

88Chris05 wrote:Don't get me wrong, Shah, I think Kovalev-Calzaghe at Light-Heavy is a great fight. As I said earlier, I think Calzaghe was better suited to 168 (and Kovalev is as genuine a Light-Heavy as they come) but I also think he'd have been a better 175 pounder had he given it a go in, say, 2003 rather than 2008. Against the 2008 version of Joe I make Kovalev favourite (not a dead cert by any means) but against the 2003 version I might go the other way....Problem being that this version of a Light-Heavyweight Calzaghe is an imaginary one.

Aye its a fair point, Just for all of Kovalevs fights I ve yet to see anything other than power that he does better than Joe, and Bangers arent Joe's weakness. It may entirely be that i'm putting more faith in Joe than he deserves, especially at light heavyweight but for the life of me can't really put Kovalev ahead. Maybes it my turn to harp on the past and look at it with rose tinted glasses, but my instinct overrules my head over this.

Bit too early to tell with Kovolev, he needs a couple more tough fights, hasn't had enough of a test yet.

He looks the real deal though and will take on all comers. I still think his stamina and chin can be further tested.

I agree with you Shah I can't see what Kovalev does to trouble Calzaghe, his power isn't an equalizer if he can't land anything clean and I don't think he stands a chance living with the pace Calzaghe would set. Kovalev struggles to throw 60 punches a round after the first four rounds so how is he going to cope with an opponent throwing 100 punches to head, body and constantly moving, for me he doesn't.

Kov vs Bob Foster would be a good shootout.

If you're a fan of Bob Foster and want to see Kovalev laid out on his back.

You can't even see Kovalev giving Calzaghe trouble, Hammersmith? I think both give each other plenty of bother whoever ends up winning.

I wouldn't be confident of Kovalev not being able to land, really. Calzaghe's defence was decent but not a particularly strong point for him and he usually shipped a fair bit of leather in his fights. He had a very good chin to balance things out but was prone to getting caught out early (all of his knockdowns came inside the first four rounds) and as you've just said, that's where Kovalev looks most dangerous, albeit I think it gets over-exaggerated how much he apparently trails off after that point.

Campillo was a southpaw, quick-handed combination hitter and Kovalev got to him and shut him down without any problems. Granted, Campillo was never in Calzaghe's class and was no longer peak, but if Calzaghe wins (and as I've said, that's definitely a big possibility) I don't see how it's without any bother. How many really top fighters did Calzaghe actually beat in a dominant fashion, or without problems?

But then again, I don't tend to rate Calzaghe quite as highly as others on here. Think he gets too much benefit of the doubt and leeway when it comes to these kind of head to heads considering who he built his record against. Most (though not all, in fairness) of his best victims such as Eubank, Reid, Kessler and Hopkins gave him plenty of bother so I find it harder to believe than others that he likewise starts as automatic favourite over guys such as Ward, Jones Jr, Kovalev etc. I'm far removed from that group who refers to him as some kind of fraud or whatever - he was an excellent fighter and a British great. But I think the praise he gets on these shores is a more than generous return for what he actually did in his career.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If you're a fan of Bob Foster and want to see Kovalev laid out on his back.

Foster I see as the one dangerman for Kovalev.

Could end early and could go either way I reckon.

Herman Jaeger wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:If you're a fan of Bob Foster and want to see Kovalev laid out on his back.

Foster I see as the one dangerman for Kovalev.

Could end early and could go either way I reckon.

So you honestly think Foster is the only man capable of beating Kovalev?

No.

He just sprung to mind as an immediate dangerman.

88Chris05 wrote:You can't even see Kovalev giving Calzaghe trouble, Hammersmith? I think both give each other plenty of bother whoever ends up winning.

I wouldn't be confident of Kovalev not being able to land, really. Calzaghe's defence was decent but not a particularly strong point for him and he usually shipped a fair bit of leather in his fights. He had a very good chin to balance things out but was prone to getting caught out early (all of his knockdowns came inside the first four rounds) and as you've just said, that's where Kovalev looks most dangerous, albeit I think it gets over-exaggerated how much he apparently trails off after that point.

Campillo was a southpaw, quick-handed combination hitter and Kovalev got to him and shut him down without any problems. Granted, Campillo was never in Calzaghe's class and was no longer peak, but if Calzaghe wins (and as I've said, that's definitely a big possibility) I don't see how it's without any bother. How many really top fighters did Calzaghe actually beat in a dominant fashion, or without problems?

But then again, I don't tend to rate Calzaghe quite as highly as others on here. Think he gets too much benefit of the doubt  and leeway when it comes to these kind of head to heads considering who he built his record against. Most (though not all, in fairness) of his best victims such as Eubank, Reid, Kessler and Hopkins gave him plenty of bother so I find it harder to believe than others that he likewise starts as automatic favourite over guys such as Ward, Jones Jr, Kovalev etc. I'm far removed from that group who refers to him as some kind of fraud or whatever - he was an excellent fighter and a British great. But I think the praise he gets on these shores is a more than generous return for what he actually did in his career.

Kovalev isn't in the class of Ward or Jones jnr nor do I think he's a really top fighter, like Stevenson he's a decent boxer with power in a poor 175lb division, there is nothing special about him.

What Calzaghe did and didn't do isn't overly relevant in a head to head, what is relevant is that he's a far superior boxer to Kovalev and has such a speed and work rate advantage that I would expect him to be fairly dominant. Kovs jab is good but it isn't Kessler good so I don't see that being a difference maker, Reid was also no slouch, Eubank was as tough as they come and Hopkins is just Hopkins. No relevance with any of those fights as Kovalev doesn't have those attributes, he's a fairly robotic power puncher who does have stamina issues when the heat gets turned up.

Kovalev's footwork negates all Calzaghe's other advantages.

Does anyone really think Kovalev wouldn't have beaten who Calzaghe beat at 175? The Roy Jones be beat could certainly be touched, moved and rocked. I also think he lost to Hoppo, and I don't think any version of Hopkins is beating a 175 Kovalev.

Have to agree to disagree then, Hammersmith. Just can't see how Eubank, Reid and Kessler were possibly bringing more to the table against Calzaghe than Kovalev would be personally, given his additional size, punching power, good footwork etc. Calzaghe might well win but the idea of him dominating Kovalev or winning at a canter seems fanciful for me. Whatever stamina and workrate advantages he has over Kovalev aren't going to be as big as the ones he held over a 43-year-old Hopkins, and Calzaghe still only just scraped home in that one, even with Hopkins reduced to crawling around on the floor and feigning low blows to buy himself a breather.

Disagree on the jab, too. Kessler's was never as punishing and jolting as Kovalev's in my opinion. Think Calzaghe would need a career-best defensive showing to be sure of getting the win against Sergey. No issue with anyone picking Calzaghe but talking as if he was in a totally different class to someone like Kovalev makes no sense.

Oh and Herman, with regards to Foster-Kovalev. Two big Light-Heavyweights with a big punch on them. It's likely to be a wild shootout so in that case I'd always be inclined to go with the (even) bigger man with the (even) bigger punch. Foster by KO inside three or four rounds.

88Chris05 wrote:Oh and Herman, with regards to Foster-Kovalev. Two big Light-Heavyweights with a big punch on them. It's likely to be a wild shootout so in that case I'd always be inclined to go with the (even) bigger man with the (even) bigger punch. Foster by KO inside three or four rounds.

Yes I think I'd be tempted to favour Foster ever so slightly.

But wouldn't rule out it going the other way. Kovalev does seem to have unusual power for the weight.

Am I right in saying though that Foster's dynamite was solely in his right hand whereas Kov can get you with either hand?

Think Dick Tiger and Mike Quarry would give a strong argument against that theory if they could, Herman!

I think there's a general misconception that Eastern Bloc fighters are robotic and not as technically adept as the likes of a Ward or a Jones. Kovalev has excellent technique and every punch he throws is hard.

Calzaghe doesn't figure in the argument for me. He was a great super middle whose engine got him past Hopkins (just) who was far superior technically and a dog meat version of Jones. Neither were punchers at 175 and both dropped Calzaghe hard.

I think Kovalev is better than all of the above save perhaps Stevenson. Crucial that one gets made.

I can't quite believe Kovalev is being given a chance against Foster.

To me it makes no sense trying to make him out to be something he's not, his record is good against the current crop but his best win is a 50 year old Hopkins so has to be taken with a pinch of salt. I find it fairly absurd that these match ups always have to be close one way or another, it would seem fanciful to suggest Charles and Burley dominate Moore but it happened so to predict a comfortable win for Calzaghe over Kovalev is perfectly reasonable.

[quote="Hammersmith harrier"]I can't quite believe Kovalev is being given a chance against Foster.


Try harder. It's not that fanciful.

As one of the hardest punchers the division has seen for many a year...he could hurt Foster first.

Well known for getting hurt at light heavyweight wasn't he Foster, Kovalev wouldn't see the 5th round and unfortunately isn't in Foster's class. A decent belt holder is apparently the equal of the divisions biggest puncher and arguably it's greatest ever champion.

I think Calzaghe has a better chance with Moore who was more flat-footed than he does with Kovalev.


Not arguing that Foster isn't one of the division's greatest champions or that he may go off as the bookmaker's fancy. But who at lightheavy did he face that could bang like Kov?

Doug Jones did take him to Queer street and left him there

The argument works the other way and Kovalev has been rocked by far lesser punchers than Foster and it's going to take more than beating Cleverley, Pascal and an ancient Hopkins to enter him into that conversation.

So you now also think Calzaghe could beat Moore who was anything but flat footed but can't beat the one dimensional Kovalev, right.

I think Foster beats Kovalev something like four out of five. Kovalev is a bigger hitter than anything on Foster's record and Foster didn't put that much emphasis on protecting his chin (he was certainly no back foot boxer) so Kovalev does have a puncher's chance. But as I said earlier, in Foster he's up against a bigger guy than himself and an even bigger hitter. Kovalev does have top class punching power, Herman, but some of the knockouts Foster produced at 175 were like something out of a horror movie.

Just think that each of their fights could end up being re-runs of the last. Both are hittable but Foster's height and reach mean his chin is that little bit harder to get to and I'd personally expect him to land the telling blows a little earlier than Kovalev more often than not.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:The argument works the other way and Kovalev has been rocked by far lesser punchers than Foster and it's going to take more than beating Cleverley, Pascal and an ancient Hopkins to enter him into that conversation.

So you now also think Calzaghe could beat Moore who was anything but flat footed but can't beat the one dimensional Kovalev, right.

I probably don't in actual fact see Calzaghe beating Moore, but do indeed give him more of a chance with Moore than I would with Kovalev.

Difficult to understand?

It's difficult to comprehend really how you rate Kovalev up amongst the greats of the division.

Instinct.

I think he has the potential to become great, let's put it that way.

Until he loses, then he was just a hype job. Modern boxing.

Eubank v Kovalev.............now theres a fight.

I think Eubank stands a better chance then Calzaghe

Cue Steffany.....

Jones and Hopkins dropped Calzaghe 'hard', Haz? Don't know about that, clipped when off balance against BHop and forearmed against RJJ. Looked more hurt against Kessler. Don't think you can really say Calzaghe struggled with the power of 175 fighters based on those two.

I'd fancy Kov against the 08 LH version of Calzaghe to be honest. Can't see anyone dealing with Calzaghe 'easily' though, workrate, chin, awkward style. Nightmare for anyone.

I think Calazaghe is too cute with that southpaw style...........

Think Kovo is a sign of a talentless era........Heaven knows what Spinks, Qawi and Rossman would do to this guy..............Plodder with a punch......Just like Wlad....

Doesn't move his head...Comes in on straight lines.......

Hill would outpoint him easy.....

Don't rate him...............Think Stevo knocks him out...

If only he was North American......

Dipper Brown wrote:Jones and Hopkins dropped Calzaghe 'hard', Haz? Don't know about that, clipped when off balance against BHop and forearmed against RJJ. Looked more hurt against Kessler. Don't think you can really say Calzaghe struggled with the power of 175 fighters based on those two.

I'd fancy Kov against the 08 LH version of Calzaghe to be honest. Can't see anyone dealing with Calzaghe 'easily' though, workrate, chin, awkward style. Nightmare for anyone.

Hopkins put him on his arse and Jones hurt him worse. Calzaghe was buzzed on both occasions.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I think Calazaghe is too cute with that southpaw style...........

Think Kovo is a sign of a talentless era........Heaven knows what Spinks, Qawi and Rossman would do to this guy..............Plodder with a punch......Just like Wlad....

Doesn't move his head...Comes in on straight lines.......

Hill would outpoint him easy.....

Don't rate him...............Think Stevo knocks him out...

Kovalev isn't anything like Klitschko. That's one of the worst comparisons I've ever seen on 606.

Kovalev is well schooled. Excellent at putting himself into position to hurt the other man and shows real nous each time he fights.

Should know by now that "talentless era" is code for "where are the yanks"