The Official *England's Passage to Paris 2016* Thread

[FootballLight]

First topic message reminder :

Sorry 24, I'm thinking of the World Cup again.

[compelling and rich]

never rule out the italians, ive seen many poor italian teams go a long way and at 18/1 there a cracking each way bet. if they avoid the germans in the draw can easily see them getting to the final

[Alistair]

Wales to go further than England, what's the price on that?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34235938

Jesus Christ if he gets called up and Redmond doesn't I'll be fuming. Ibe's shown the grand total of Frak all

[Hammersmith harrier]

With you on that, Redmond is twice the player Ibe is.

[GSC]

But Sterling was also a young quick winger when he came into the side!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Id be worried if either of them get called up.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Goalkeepers

Jack Butland (Stoke City), Joe Hart (Manchester City), Tom Heaton (Burnley).

Defenders
Ryan Bertrand (Southampton), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Nathaniel Clyne (Liverpool), Kieran Gibbs (Arsenal), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Phil Jones (Manchester United), Chris Smalling (Manchester United), John Stones (Everton).

Midfielders
Dele Alli (Tottenham Hotspur), Ross Barkley (Everton), Michael Carrick (Manchester United), Adam Lallana (Liverpool), James Milner (Liverpool), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Jonjo Shelvey (Swansea City), Raheem Sterling (Manchester City).

Forwards
Danny Ings (Liverpool), Harry Kane (Tottenham Hotspur), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Jamie Vardy (Leicester City), Theo Walcott (Arsenal).

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'm pretty annoyed by that squad, but particular praise must go to Woy for seeing something in Danny Ings' season so far that deserved a call-up. Because no one else has.

[GSC]

It depresses me everytime Vardy gets called up. Hes not international standard by a long way.

[Hero]

He's the international standard of England nowadays.

[Stella]

Vardy would be a handy sub, if we were protecting a lead and you wanted some legs up front. Apart from that.........

[Alistair]

Isn't he the top English Goalscorer this season?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It's up to Sturridge, Carroll, Welbeck etc to get fit and displace Vardy. I don't think he should be starting, but you'd question whether anyone else has club form to warrant a start. So Kane can push into the no9 role by last season's form or Rooney remains there by recent international record.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I do wonder if Wilson made it into Woy's thoughts before injury.

[Alistair]

It's up to Sturridge, Carroll, Welbeck etc to get fit and displace Vardy. I don't think he should be starting, but you'd question whether anyone else has club form to warrant a start. So Kane can push into the no9 role by last season's form or Rooney remains there by recent international record.

It's Catch 22 in many ways. You could argue that Sturridge is a better striker, but he's only just back from injury and again, it's picking players on reputation rather than form. It's hard to argue that Vardy deserves his call up, and you're right that it's up to the others to push him out. I would like to see Woy try him though, rather than putting him on the bench.

[Guest]

Carroll & Welbeck are equally as pony as Vardy, way below International standard. Wouldn't get your knickers in a twist over this squad, we all know that when the Euro's come around, Woy will revert to the failed, but trusted, big name stars. Kane will lead the line, Woy's orgasm face at White Hart Lane when Kane scored vs City told us everything.

Essentially, having qualified, these games are just time filling exercises now, to show average PL players that they do have a chance getting into an England squad.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It's up to Sturridge, Carroll, Welbeck etc to get fit and displace Vardy. I don't think he should be starting, but you'd question whether anyone else has club form to warrant a start. So Kane can push into the no9 role by last season's form or Rooney remains there by recent international record.

It's Catch 22 in many ways. You could argue that Sturridge is a better striker, but he's only just back from injury and again, it's picking players on reputation rather than form. It's hard to argue that Vardy deserves his call up, and you're right that it's up to the others to push him out. I would like to see Woy try him though, rather than putting him on the bench.

I could go through that squad and pick holes in it in every area. Heaton is probably a soft one to pick up on, but Ruddy is notably better, and Alex McCarthy deserves to be looked at now hes a regular in the Premier League. I would hope Butland gets minutes soon.

Jones and Gibbs especially, but Jagielka as well, are shocking picks in defence. Jones has played about 20 minutes, and was a shambles before injury. Gibbs has played 8 minutes in the league this season. Hes getting almost mocked by Monreal's inclusion over him every game. I will forgive Woy picking Bertrand because he may be only just fit again, but hes definitely a player who needs to be in and around the squad. The problem here is I'm essentially going to suggest two West Ham players, and theres certainly some bias, but Tomkins and Cresswell are both yet to make an England squad. The same can be said of Scott Dann. Both Dann and Tomkins are having good seasons, whilst Cresswell has at least been great going forward, as much as hes been 50/50 defensively. However, Woy isn't learning much more about him sat at home, and theres nothing more to learn about Kieran Gibbs, a basically injured Phil Jones and Phil Jagielka.

Delle Alli i'm 50/50. Play good for Spurs for about 3 games and somehow, even though their season start has been about ok, if not average to promising, you get picked. Alli clearly has a lot of potential and has adapted fast, but it seems questionable to me that he gets picked and Dier, who has probably been their midfield mainstay, isn't picked. Has Alli, however, played better in his games than the Mark Noble who has captained West Ham to wins at The Emirates, Anfield and The Etihad whilst playing superbly? But, my anger isn't at Alli as I think hes worth a spot. Milner, Lallana and Oxlade-Chamberlain are all a bit lucky. Milner is consistently proving himself not to be a great central midfielder. The other two I think might be worth dropping to put a rocket up them. If you don't perform at your own club, and if you aren't a regular (Ox) then you risk being dropped for players the manager wants to learn about.

Added to that, I'm absolutely chuffed that Sherwood blocked Grealish joining up. I don't care about his fitness, but the boy has barely strung two good games together. They've allowed him to dictate his value with this embarrassing courtship of a player with a bit of potential, but certainly not jaw-dropping potential.

Vardy is earning his place, especially in comparison to his competition. Would Wilson have made it? Id hope so. Ings doesnt look good enough to warrant a place on reputation or potential, and his performances havent even got him a place in his own side.

You can certainly question why Zaha no longer warrants a look. Why Berahino isnt above both Vardy and Ings.

Then again, Payet didnt make the French squad so Im not sure about football right now.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

It's up to Sturridge, Carroll, Welbeck etc to get fit and displace Vardy. I don't think he should be starting, but you'd question whether anyone else has club form to warrant a start. So Kane can push into the no9 role by last season's form or Rooney remains there by recent international record.

It's Catch 22 in many ways. You could argue that Sturridge is a better striker, but he's only just back from injury and again, it's picking players on reputation rather than form. It's hard to argue that Vardy deserves his call up, and you're right that it's up to the others to push him out. I would like to see Woy try him though, rather than putting him on the bench.

I could go through that squad and pick holes in it in every area. Heaton is probably a soft one to pick up on, but Ruddy is notably better, and Alex McCarthy deserves to be looked at now hes a regular in the Premier League. I would hope Butland gets minutes soon.

Jones and Gibbs especially, but Jagielka as well, are shocking picks in defence. Jones has played about 20 minutes, and was a shambles before injury. Gibbs has played 8 minutes in the league this season. Hes getting almost mocked by Monreal's inclusion over him every game. I will forgive Woy picking Bertrand because he may be only just fit again, but hes definitely a player who needs to be in and around the squad. The problem here is I'm essentially going to suggest two West Ham players, and theres certainly some bias, but Tomkins and Cresswell are both yet to make an England squad. The same can be said of Scott Dann. Both Dann and Tomkins are having good seasons, whilst Cresswell has at least been great going forward, as much as hes been 50/50 defensively. However, Woy isn't learning much more about him sat at home, and theres nothing more to learn about Kieran Gibbs, a basically injured Phil Jones and Phil Jagielka.

Delle Alli i'm 50/50. Play good for Spurs for about 3 games and somehow, even though their season start has been about ok, if not average to promising, you get picked. Alli clearly has a lot of potential and has adapted fast, but it seems questionable to me that he gets picked and Dier, who has probably been their midfield mainstay, isn't picked. Has Alli, however, played better in his games than the Mark Noble who has captained West Ham to wins at The Emirates, Anfield and The Etihad whilst playing superbly? But, my anger isn't at Alli as I think hes worth a spot. Milner, Lallana and Oxlade-Chamberlain are all a bit lucky. Milner is consistently proving himself not to be a great central midfielder. The other two I think might be worth dropping to put a rocket up them. If you don't perform at your own club, and if you aren't a regular (Ox) then you risk being dropped for players the manager wants to learn about.

Added to that, I'm absolutely chuffed that Sherwood blocked Grealish joining up. I don't care about his fitness, but the boy has barely strung two good games together. They've allowed him to dictate his value with this embarrassing courtship of a player with a bit of potential, but certainly not jaw-dropping potential.

Vardy is earning his place, especially in comparison to his competition. Would Wilson have made it? Id hope so. Ings doesnt look good enough to warrant a place on reputation or potential, and his performances havent even got him a place in his own side.

You can certainly question why Zaha no longer warrants a look. Why Berahino isnt above both Vardy and Ings.

Then again, Payet didnt make the French squad so Im not sure about football right now.

Pretty much agree with most of this. Heaton over ruddy was laughable even last season let alone this. But then on the other hand at least it's less players to have to worry about getting injured on international duty

[Guest]

Ings & Vardy over Saido is just embarrassing. Woy doesn't have a clue, probably didn't like the actions of Saido during the window & now making it a personal choice, instead of on pure footballing reasons.

[Soldier_Of_Fortune]

Ings & Vardy over Saido is just embarrassing. Woy doesn't have a clue, probably didn't like the actions of Saido during the window & now making it a personal choice, instead of on pure footballing reasons.

Can sort of see your point with Ings (but he does have more tactical awareness then Saido) but Vardy? Take your head for a wobble.

[Guest]

Ings & Vardy over Saido is just embarrassing. Woy doesn't have a clue, probably didn't like the actions of Saido during the window & now making it a personal choice, instead of on pure footballing reasons.

Can sort of see your point with Ings (but he does have more tactical awareness then Saido) but Vardy? Take your head for a wobble.

What are you on about, Vardy is never international class in a million years. A good couple of months to the start of the season & now he is? Saido has 10 goals in 11 apps for the England U21, was named the England U21 Player of the Year & been targeted by Spurs & other top clubs. He's in a different league to Vardy, superior finisher & much more of a natural goalscorer, so you take your head for a wobble.

[MIG]

Places for both Vardy and Berahino at the moment for me. Ings I like, but not entirely convinced this call up is deserved just yet based on current form.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Ings & Vardy over Saido is just embarrassing. Woy doesn't have a clue, probably didn't like the actions of Saido during the window & now making it a personal choice, instead of on pure footballing reasons.

Can sort of see your point with Ings (but he does have more tactical awareness then Saido) but Vardy? Take your head for a wobble.

What are you on about, Vardy is never international class in a million years. A good couple of months to the start of the season & now he is? Saido has 10 goals in 11 apps for the England U21, was named the England U21 Player of the Year & been targeted by Spurs & other top clubs. He's in a different league to Vardy, superior finisher & much more of a natural goalscorer, so you take your head for a wobble.

But what is Berahino doing right now that means he just deserves a place ahead of Vardy, who is playing exceptionally in the league?

There does seem to be some sort of shame about someone who isn't a technical master making the England squad. If Vardy's hard work and attitude up top helped us beat a Spain or Germany then it's nothing to be ashamed of just because he does it in a workmanlike way rather than looking like he is technically amazing.

Saido over Ings? Easily. But right now Vardy is earning his place above both.

[Guest]

It depresses me everytime Vardy gets called up. Hes not international standard by a long way.

He's not piping up to agree with me, because it's you (DZ) defending Vardy's selection.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

It depresses me everytime Vardy gets called up. Hes not international standard by a long way.

He's not piping up to agree with me, because it's you (DZ) defending Vardy's selection.

GSC and I have near on argued about Andy Carroll on numerous occasions. Please stop the woe is me, stuff. I am not even a huge fan of Vardy, but its part of the debate rather than dismissing everything or leaving petulant comments.

[Guest]

sorry, it won't happen again. just think vardy is bang average, that's all.

midfield worries me too,

Dele Alli - inexperienced, not much expected
Ross Barkley - stagnated
Michael Carrick - old & injured basically every week now
Adam Lallana - very average
James Milner - proving to be very average at liverpool
Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain - not even first choice at arsenal, stagnated career
Jonjo Shelvey - not international class, basically backup
Raheem Sterling - can't shoot or finish, been poor for england

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Andros Townsend who has made two sub appearances all season called up

I'm done

[Stella]

Andros Townsend who has made two sub appearances all season called up

I'm done

Has done ok when with England, so deserves another chance.

[Guest]

if anything, andros raises his game for england, so i'm not too fussed over his inclusion. lallana, milner, oxlade, gibbs & bertrand (admittedly through injury), have all done precisely nothing this season & are included, so why not andros.

we know roy has his favourites, so no surprise andros is here. everyone knows come the euro's the side will be filled with the usual, trusted & failed suspects, we've all seen before.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Id love him to just pick retired players. Cos theyve done it for England before.

[NickisBHAFC]

Andros Townsend who has made two sub appearances all season called up

I'm done

He's always class for England but awful for Tottenham, so deserves the call up based on the former.

[Duty281]

Although, John, at the World Cup Roy went with the new and vibrant, not the old and tired, and you gave him a thorough rollicking for it! #royhodgsonsbarmyarmy #imstartingtolosethefaithmyself

[Guest]

everyone gave him a rollicking, he was clearly & totally inept at the job. The results were shambolic & he should of gone. just a shame pardew or monk had not shone that season, then we would of had a manager, capable of taking us onto the next level & developing these younger players. Not really sure what Roy has done to progress Sterling or Barkley at International level.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'd despair at Pardew the England manager

[Stella]

Redknapp should have got it, when Roy did. I doubt we would have done much better, given our mediocre players, but he deserved it, after how he got a big club like Spurs playing, and performing.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

big club like Spurs

Oxymoron that

[Guest]

I'd despair at Pardew the England manager

why, what's there to despair, about an english manager of the year a few years ago, getting newcastle to fifth & now transforming palace into a credible top 6 team potentially? if anything, he deserves a shot. also, palace are similar to england, not very good with possession & have players that's attributes are suited to counter attacking football.

[NickisBHAFC]

I'd happily see Pardew as England manager

I just can't see the FA wanting to give the job to Pardew though, his record on the sidelines is hardly impressive behaviour wise.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

He's a bit flavour of the month. We arguably had the best and worst of Pardew's management and I don't consider him a tactician or that intelligent. It's damning that he has had strong starts and then mediocre falls at West Ham and Newcastle.

Moreover, I don't see him being able to manage an international teams dressing room. The guy has had questionable behaviour at every club he's been in before Palace and I don't think the best of our players will react well to him.

If you're not giving the job to a man with a long list of credentials backed up by experience then I'd say you give it to Howe and give huge long term assurances.

I have a soft spot for Pardew, but I don't think he's the level I'd aspire England management to be. His time at Palace will be fascinating, but it's very much early days. He hasn't done much to them yet.

[Guest]

There's a lot of 'i don't think' & 'I'm not sure's' in there, with no real reasoning why Pardew is not good enough or suited for the job. You then say Pardew hasn't achieved much, which is ridiculous & to say he's done nothing at Palace, is just delusional. To then suggest giving it to Howe is laughable. 

As for the behavioural issues being a factor, is nonsense & another way of trying to make Pardew unsuitable. Why does it matter, if he's had a few issues, sterling does happy crack, Rooney & his prostitutes, they still play for England & haven't been banned or overlooked. Why is it one thing for a manager & another for the players. After all, they're all role models. Point doesn't stand up.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

What has Pardew ever done beyond getting a team to mid table in the prem then falling off over time? He's a good PL manager but has never shown he can step up a level to be a top 6 PL manager let alone international level.

Really their are no English candidates imo

[Stella]

I take it Roy will step down after the euro's?

Who will take it is anyone's guess. Knowing the FA, they'll give it to Stuart Pearce.

[NickisBHAFC]

Sean Dyche, Tim Sherwood, Alan Pardew, Harry Redknapp

Some fantastic candidates out there.

[Duty281]

I'm inclined to think (not want!) either Gary Neville or Brendan Rodgers will be the next England manager. Wouldn't rule out Mourinho. Or Southgate *shudder*.

[Guest]

Or Roberto Martinez, given his integration & knowledge of English football & how close his relationship & understanding is, with two of our brightest talents, Barkley & Stones.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

There's a lot of 'i don't think' & 'I'm not sure's' in there, with no real reasoning why Pardew is not good enough or suited for the job. You then say Pardew hasn't achieved much, which is ridiculous & to say he's done nothing at Palace, is just delusional. To then suggest giving it to Howe is laughable. 

As for the behavioural issues being a factor, is nonsense & another way of trying to make Pardew unsuitable. Why does it matter, if he's had a few issues, sterling does happy crack, Rooney & his prostitutes, they still play for England & haven't been banned or overlooked. Why is it one thing for a manager & another for the players. After all, they're all role models. Point doesn't stand up.

Oh I do love when we talk.

Firstly, I would suggest the reason I have written "I don't think" and "I'm not sure is" because I'm offering an opinion, thus what I state is my belief and not cold-hard fact. As such, I can think he is good at something and I can say I don't think he is great at others.

The post kind of went into my reasoning why. Having had him as manager of my club I have a view on his management beyond figures and stats. I personally don't think (sorry) that he has achieved a great deal. He's done fine, he's a perfectly able manager at middling clubs. If he had been free this summer when we were looking for a manager I do not believe anyone would have been blown away if we appointed him, nor would they have thought it was an ambitious move. His name would not be in the running for Spurs and/or Liverpool (as evidenced this week) were they to be hiring a new manager. So he obviously isn't doing anything to be a mover and shaker for any club with consistent European ambitions right now, let alone in the coming future.

Not entirely sure what is "delusional" about saying he hasn't achieved anything at Palace. So far he has basically given them a good start to this season and secured them last season. He is still in the early stages. Neither us are will be judging a manager by 8 games of a season.

Also not sure why the leader of a team, its manager, should not be assessed on his behaviour. I think the point stands up completely. In the same way Harry Redknapp's tax issues were a huge problem in his desire to be England manager. And, allow me this detour into another nation's setup, why Paulo Wanchope resigned pretty sharpish after that scrap he was involved in whilst Costa Rica assistant. I would suggest that if Rooney's issues were recent he would not be captain. I also think (sorry) that captain and manager are two entirely different positions in that respect. In this aspect, its widely reported that his man management at West Ham fell off a cliff.

My reasoning around Howe is different because hes a young manager with a notable style who is also someone you can note who is as much coach as manager. That to me is a characteristic you need as an international manager. Hiring Howe would come with caveats, but I see more potential upside to his management than Pardew. Howe's teams fit much the style being offered by the FA as what they want from England. If they are going to higher a younger manager who does things in this way they want England to play then I think Howe fits the bill more than Pardew.

I'd say there are more reasons to give Allardyce the England job than Pardew. Moreover, Pardew's career shows highs followed by big dips.

However, I submit to you a chance to offer why you think he would be a good manager, rather than just cut at someone else's opinion.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

As for Martinez, I am much in favour of Anglicised managers being an alternative to English managers. The likes of Wenger, Martinez, even Mourinho who have lived English football for chunks of time have a shout at it for my money. Martinez would be particularly suitable given his desire to promote youth and promote the style of play in a technical sense that I feel England's upper management want. Also, he wouldn't have to buy defenders and would be consistently handed the best of our options.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Woy names attacking side for Estonia:

Hart, Clyne, Smalling, Cahill, Bertrand, Lallana, Milner, Barkley, Walcott, Kane, Sterling

[Guest]

Hardly surprising, Estonia couldn't even score against San Marino. Should be a comfortable & a quite boring one sided game. Expect Kane to follow in Welbeck's steps tonight, in looking far better at International qualifier level, than the PL.

[Guest]

Lallana & Milner 

[Sponsored content]