Your pre World Cup squad: England

I think there are normally 50 people in one of these squads but the numbers are quite flexible. But with no international games between now and the squad being named, who makes your wider squad? And what questions will you be looking to answer in the three warm up games?

Front Row
Marler, Vunipola, Corbisiero, Hartley, Youngs, Webber, Cole, Wilson, Brookes.

All 9 men have recent international experience both in terms of hard caps and squad time. There's no one else really in contention and front row isn't an area you traditionally get bolters.

Questions I'd be looking to answer is can Corbisiero force his way back into the starting line up and Hartley or Young's at 2.

Second row
Lawes, Launchbury, Parling, Attwood, Slater, Kruis.

Slater is the only controversial pick in there but his first cap is long overdue. Lancaster will pick the other 5 and no one will argue.

Our starting pair are a lock and I think everyone is fairly happy with Parling currently being third in the pecking order. So we need to establish our fourth choice early on. A lot will come down to training, but Lancaster will need to work out who that fourth choice is, and whether the fourth choice will make the plane.

Back Row
Robshaw, Wood, Armitage, Haskell, Kvesic, Vunipola, Morgan, Easter.

Robshaw, Wood, Vunipola and Morgan (if fit) pick themselves in the final squad. Easter covers Morgan (and second row) making him a must in the training squad and an attractive option if Morgan doesn't make the final squad. You don't just throw away 50 caps of experience so Haskell makes the wider squad for me, while Armitage and Kvesic get there on the strength of their club form.

The question for me relvolves around the starting back row. I don't think the balance is right and would look to experiment with Vunipola at 6 and Morgan at 8 and Armitage on the bench for the first match. With our locks both able to play 6, we should be able to facilitate more carriers in the back row. Once we lock in our starting back row we can fill the rest of the squad.

Half backs
Youngs, Care, Dickson, Wigglesworth, Ford, Farrell, Slade, Cipriani.

Only real left field selection here is Slade as a potential utility back. Cipriani is purely in as injury cover as I don't think he's versatile enough to be a third choice fly half and he won't go as one of the two.

I think the question to be answered is who is the second choice 9, can Care or Dickson usurp Wigglesworth? Youngs, Ford and Farrell are probably already booked in.

Centres
Barritt, Burrell, Twelvetrees, Burgess, Eastmond, Tuilagi, Joseph, Daly.

Barritt, Tuilagi and Joseph are already in the final squad, and for me I'd take those 3 only, with Slade, Farrell and Nowell also in the squad covering centre. After those 3, I think there are so many players who are much of a muchness and I think Lancaster would be wise to include them all in his squad to keep his options open. Should there be an injury Lancaster can then try to judge the form of the other players.

The question for me is what two to start with therefore. With 3 games you can try out each of the 3 combos from your 3 first choice centres or you can try two and give Slade a start at 13. But we need to nail our starting centre partnership as a matter of priority.

Back three
Nowell, Watson, May, Ashton, Wade, Brown, Foden, Goode.

Nowell, Watson, May and Brown all go to the World Cup with space for one more. With Nowell and Watson able to cover 15, that could be a winger or a full back. Ashton or Wade could get a hatful against Uruguay and secure a bonus point in that game.

First game I'd try Watson at full back to see whether that is a viable option, and I'd try one of my other wingers in his spot. After that, I think the starting 3 are pretty secure in their spots.

All this talent and no 6 Nations since 2011.

Get real the last 3 years titles have effectively been a 3 way tie between England,Ireland and
Wales.
Points differential is no way to settle things. England and Wales over there whole history 5/6
home unions,grandslams,championships .matches won/lost is almost identical.

Oh dear, sabotaged by the welsh already. Bad luck emack.

My training squad, criteria being two full 23 man squads plus a few extra players, either currently long term injured or wild cards.

Squad 1:
Marler, Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Launchbury, Wood, Robshaw, Vunipola, Youngs, Ford, Nowell, 36, Joseph, Watson, Brown
Youngs, Vunipola, Wilson, Parling, Haskell, Care, Slade, May

Squad 2:
Corbisiero, Webber, Thomas, Attwood, Kitchener, Clark, Kvesic, Easter, Dickson, Cipriani, Ashton, Barritt, Burrell, Wade, Goode
George, Mullan, Brookes, Kruis, Waldrom, Wigglesworth, Burns, Daly


Wild Cards:
Slater, Morgan, ArmitageS, Croft, Simpson, Hill, Eastmond, Tuilagi, ArmitageD  (Bomber will include Burgess)



bound to have forgotten someone major.

If Steffon is in the frame for the World Cup training squad, then I think Lancaster should also consider his brother Delon.

George Ford doesn't have the kicking range to give us all the points we might need at a World Cup. Delon can take longer efforts, and does so on occasion for Toulon. If England had the last-minute penalty awarded to Saracens at the weekend, it would have been a tap-and-go, because Ford doesn't have the distance, and there was no time for a lineout. Delon can do what Bosch managed.

Abendanon is the other full back wild card.

If Slade is playing at 12 he can kick from 50m, for me he is pure class unlike 12T who is very hit and miss agree on Abendanon must be better option than Goode

Not a fan of 12T, his greatest impact seems to be aggressive line speed when coming on as a disgruntled sub. I'll hold my hands up though and say I thought he may have been class.

I do however like Eastmond a lot, and Slade. I have no problem with their defence either, Slade's in particular is good. I do think we'd need to adapt to a game-plan that requires zero trucking up at 12 and almost exclusively quick ball though, and that may be too much for us.

On Robbo's squad, I think that there is a need for another ball player along the likes of Lawesbury in the second row department. Kitchener could do that job.

Neither Armitage should be anywhere close to being allowed back across the English Channel, never mind the England RWC squad based on their off field activities and the example it would sets. Not sure either are really that good either, both, but Steffan in particular get an easy ride with Toulon. They wouldn't get that with England with any combo we could put out. BV may make a lot of tackles, but they tend to be close in, not out wide a heavyweight BV, Morgan, SA would look good on paper, but lacks the speed around the park to get those cover tackles in and first clear out to protect the ball.

I wouldn't have Wiggy in there either, Bomber thinks different, but with Youngs, Care, Dickson we have enough variation in type. I would prefer to see a young speedster with a decent quick pass tried out. Not Simpson, his passing is not up to standard.

The 10s pick themselves, but who is 4th choice if one gets injured? Slade? I might just ask Charlie to come out of retirement for a last fling. He is made for the way we have played in the 6N.

Centres, Barritt, Manu, Joseph are already there if Manu can get fit. Who else, with those three we need another rapier and possibly 36 (I was impressed with his 6N cameos). Burrell if he can get some form back, but watch out for a bolter, Stephenson is close to keeping Burrell out of the Saints starting XV and he has everything. Burgess will make the training squad just to see what he has learned, if Manu does not make it, he may make the squad as a replacement.

All our potential back three (Brown is a push) are interchangeable between FB and Wing, Brown, May, Nowell and Watson. Nowell and May can also cover centre to a good standard. I am sort of surprised that Brown has never (to my knowledge anyway) been tried at 13, his ability to break that first tackle and offload would be very effective especially outside a lumpy 12.

I cannot see Wade been there at the finish, too many defensive lapses and these days with the offloading game played by so many sides, you have to take your man down quick or wrap him up, you can't just hang on to one leg and drag him down slowly.

Oh, and if the WWUMs come on this thread, please ignore them, let them feed on themselves.

I would certainly add Simpson probaby instead of Dickson and as outside options what about Itoje and Ewers.  Mullan had a good game against Toulon whereas Corbisiero struggled against Clermont.

My initial thoughts were that areas such as tight five, halfbacks and back three where we have tried a number of players (due to injuries and whatever) and have been by and large successful then we can stick with the guys we know who have shown up well and just add a bit of injury cover. There is room for a couple of uncapped players, but most times I have gone for players that have at least been around the squads.

Mullan could easily be added as a fourth loose head and challenge for a squad place.

It is back row and centre where I feel we need to go more radical. We know we have some functional partnerships, if not world beating ones, and I'd like to see players like Armitage and Burgess come into this set up and see if they can make that difference.

I think there is a difference brining in S Armitage with all his accolades in a position where we are unsure as opposed to bringing in Delon and/or Abendanon in a position we have Mike Brown. Allowing one in the squad is an exception, two or three is a reversal of policy which would be detrimental in my opinion.

LT did you deliberately omit Farrell, I guess on style of play grounds?

Past-It - I take your point on Wade but think his attacking talents at least merit him a look. His defence may improve when he gets called up, but his attacking game shouldn't be overlooked any longer.

robbo277 wrote:
LT did you deliberately omit Farrell, I guess on style of play grounds?

I did say I would forget someone. Farrell slots into one of the squads instead of Burns I guess.

I think Simpson should be on the bench for England.
Critics of his passing haven't seen him this season it has speeded up considerably & his kicking is accurate to.
Looking at what he did yesterday in Touloun's backyard is something that no other scrum half (certainly available for England) could have done.
Not only is he unbelievably quick his defense yesterday was awesome.
England need to be bold & have game changers on the bench not just steady replacements.

I think Joe Simpson would be my 3rd/4th choice 9  instead of Dickson or Wigglesworth.

If Morgan does not make it due to injurie who would take his place? Billy V would be the starting 8 who would be the replacement 8?

I know at full back we have Brown, and Watson. Foden is out i believe, who is third choice? Alex Goode is it?

SL need's to get the best and strongest team available too him. So will the likes of Abendamon, Armatage, either or both of them get a chance? What with the RWC only happening every 4 years, most coaches only ever get one shot at it, so they need to get the squad right first time.

The below I'd say are nailed on for the final squad if fit:

1.Marler, M Vunipola, Corbs
2.Hartley, T Youngs, Webber
3.Cole, Wilson, Brookes
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes, Parling
6.Wood, Haskell
7.Robshaw
8.B Vunipola, Morgan

9.Youngs, Care
10.Ford, Farrell

11.Nowell
12.Barritt
13.Joseph, Tuilagi
14.Watson
15.Brown

At the moment for the wider training squad and warm-up games, I'd add:

George
Thomas
Slater
Attwood
Kitchener
Kruis
Kvesic
Easter
Simpson
Wigglesworth
Cipriani
Slade
Twelvetrees
Burrell
Daly
May
Wade
Pennell

More guys will inevitably come into or drop out of the reckoning by the end of the season however.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/11518411/England-likely-to-invoke-exceptional-circumstances-clause-to-pick-Steffon-Armitage-and-Nick-Abendanon.html

Telegraph usually pretty good on selection

I'd rather see Bendy in ahead of Goode any day of the week, Delon too

I'd be surprised if it wasn't true to be honest, the stakes are incredibly high for the RFU... they'd surely sell their grannies to ensure a good performance in their home World Cup.

Agree with you there Notch. I just hope it will be a call coming from Lancaster rather than a nudge from above though. We've seen before what happens when the politics of the RFU get too involved in the running of the team and it's rarely good.

Personally I agree with the current rule of not picking overseas players and think it's fantastic that Lancaster has stuck to it. If we were to pick guys such as Armitage or Abendanon it would send a terrible message to the guys they displace who may well have been able to pick up big money offers abroad.

I could completely understand Abendanon and Armitage moving when they were out of the frame. However Armitage has since resigned whilst in the knowledge that returning to the premiership and maintaining his form could likely secure a return with England.

If they were to show an intent to extend their International careers beyond the RWC by resigning with a Prem side for next season then I'd view things differently. However I believe both Abendanon and Armitage are in contract for at least next season.

emack2 wrote:Get real the last 3 years titles have effectively been a 3 way tie between England,Ireland and
Wales.
Points differential is no way to settle things. England and Wales over there whole history 5/6
home unions,grandslams,championships .matches won/lost is almost identical.

Dear Deluded from Bournemouth

One Triple Crown since 2011 is not the same as a Slam, 2 Championships and a Triple Crown.

Another Welsh teenager with nothing to do but troll threads about England.....

Simpson should be nowhere near an England squad, his basics are awful and he hoggs the ball. We have numerous better options who can actually pass, impact isn't just being able to run fast.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Another Welsh teenager with nothing to do but troll threads about England.....

Simpson should be nowhere near an England squad, his basics are awful and he hoggs the ball. We have numerous better options who can actually pass, impact isn't just being able to run fast.

Sorry Sgt_Pooly you obviously haven't seen much of him this season.

Apart from being our fastest SH he has added a lot more to his game this season. He has consistently been the form SH all season. Good to see Ben Youngs step up more recently & would like Care to return to some form but beyond that there is nothing as good.

I wouldn't comment if I hadn't have seen plenty of him Trev.

The only thing I can agree on is he's probably our fastest SH. He's extremley slow to get the ball away and has a poor pass.

I agree with the coaching set up that at best he's our 5th best SH. I'd actually have Robson ahead of him too but he's not involved yet.

king carlos in theory your squad looks good but in practice.....

Hartley - poor form
Webber - is he playing well?
Wilson - isn't he injured?
Corbisiero - poor form, I think he's still living off the Lions tour.
Care in laughably poor form.
Farrell - injured currently and hasn't played well in over a year.
Haskell - poor 6 nations
Morgan - injured
Tuilagi - injured

The squad doesn't look as strong when you take that into account.

Bambam Funny thing about Goode is he keeps doing the business at club level. Made an excellent line break vs Racing Metro too.


Significant wild card is Maro Itoje - came on for Hamilton vs Racing Metro - didn't look out of place. Looks like he'll be a real star in the not so distant future. We all know he's on Lancaster's radar after he put him in the Saxons.

For Maro Itoje to really progress he either need to become competent at the lineout, or work on his speed and move to 6.

I think with the long build up to the tournament, and the amount of time players are going to spend in camp with the coaches, that club form is going to be disregarded to an extent and its all going to be down to training and the warm up games.

Some of the players might be in poor form now, but 10 weeks in camp or whatever it is, knowing that WC squad places are up for grabs will see most of them go full tilt, and there inevitably will be injuries too.

Beshocked I don't doubt Goode at club and European level, he's always looked good although I didn't see the game against Metro. He's just not good enough for Test rugby for me, in Foden's absence i'm glad they're giving one of the form players in the ECC a look in Abendanon

Would be a more likely 6 for England at the moment, given the strength at 2nd row and Slater to come back as well who will almost certainly get a chance in the near future. If Armitage does come in that would mean it's more likely Itoje would get a chance after the world cup? Hell of a long way to go yet. Loads will change.

Any one think Elliot Daly should have a strong case for the 13/14/15/23 shirt in some of the friendlies? He is brilliant in attack but more importantly has a fookin howitzer of a boot that is deadly accurate, Bosch showed just how useful that can be on the weekend and Daly's done it to others in the past.

emack2 wrote:Get real the last 3 years titles have effectively been a 3 way tie between England,Ireland and
Wales.
Points differential is no way to settle things. England and Wales over there whole history 5/6
home unions,grandslams,championships .matches won/lost is almost identical.

Just ignore the pathetic little man (I use the term 'man' loosely).

Are all teams getting 10 weeks pre RWC or is that an England thing?


Could it be negative for the players too and lead to over training?

yappysnap wrote:Any one think Elliot Daly should have a strong case for the 13/14/15/23 shirt in some of the friendlies? He is brilliant in attack but more importantly has a fookin howitzer of a boot that is deadly accurate, Bosch showed just how useful that can be on the weekend and Daly's done it to others in the past.

I always thought Daly could be an option at 15 or maybe at a push a bench option covering 13/15. I'm not sure his defence is up to 13, he gets some real hammerings in the AP, I doubt this would improve at Int level. The lad is very good in attack though and worst a look at least.

yappysnap wrote:Are all teams getting 10 weeks pre RWC or is that an England thing?


Could it be negative for the players too and lead to over training?

If you're going by my post then I was just guessing!

Based on the club season ending on 30 May with the Aviva final, and the first game of the RWC on 18 September, by my count that's 16 weeks between the Aviva final and the Fiji game

Assuming they get 4-6 weeks off as rest (more might be better) that leaves around 10-12 weeks for them to be together

Are we going to see a London Double Header this year? What with the WC and Wasps moving to Coventry?

Also, the rugby championship is running from 17 July - 2 August, so the SH players will have been together for the same sort of time, assuming England players get June off and the SH players come together a couple of weeks before the first RC game

LondonTiger wrote:For Maro Itoje to really progress he either need to become competent at the lineout, or work on his speed and move to 6.

Agreed - he's an awesome talent but needs to pick a position and stick with it, working on the relevant skill sets. He's in danger of falling between two stools.

I guess with Itoje he's still not at his full size, I see him as a lock when he physically matures but if he chooses could easily be a 6. For England, I would prefer him as a carrying and hard hitting 6 in the mould of a Kaino (if not quite so destructive)

I think for the first time in a long time most of the England first choice team picks itself. I assume that we'd all agree to varying degrees that, if fit, the following are automatic picks:

Joe Marler
Dylan Hartley
Dan Cole
Joe Launchbury
Courtney Lawes
Chris Robshaw
Billy Vunipola

Ben Youngs
George Ford

Anthony Watson
Jon Joseph
Mike Brown

Further to that you can say that there are quite a few players who almost certainly will be in the squad:

Alex Corbisiero/ Mako Vunipola
Tom Youngs/ Rob Webber
David Wilson, Kieran Brookes
Dave Attwood/ George Kruis
Tom Wood, James Haskell
Ben Morgan

Richard Wigglesworth
Owen Farrell
Brad Barritt
Manu Tuilagi
Jonny May
Jack Nowell
Alex Goode

Once you've accepted those players will be going, you're only really looking for bolters in my opinion.

BamBam wrote:I guess with Itoje he's still not at his full size, I see him as a lock when he physically matures but if he chooses could easily be a 6. For England, I would prefer him as a carrying and hard hitting 6 in the  mould of a Kaino (if not quite so destructive)

I think Itoje's a fantastic player, but is he a powerful enough carrier in heavy traffic (a genuine question, haven't really seen this element of his game). He's athletic enough to be very eye catching, but we always seem to return to the question at the moment with England, have they got the hard yards in them. Games like the Dublin defeat have left me wishing for a touch less athleticism and a little more power. The balance is so nearly there, it is frustrating.

Cumbrian wrote:

BamBam wrote:I guess with Itoje he's still not at his full size, I see him as a lock when he physically matures but if he chooses could easily be a 6. For England, I would prefer him as a carrying and hard hitting 6 in the  mould of a Kaino (if not quite so destructive)

I think Itoje's a fantastic player, but is he a powerful enough carrier in heavy traffic (a genuine question, haven't really seen this element of his game).  He's athletic enough to be very eye catching, but we always seem to return to the question at the moment with England, have they got the hard yards in them.  Games like the Dublin defeat have left me wishing for a touch less athleticism and a little more power.  The balance is so nearly there, it is frustrating.

I agree that he should focus at 6. Kaino would be an excellent player upon which to model his game. England are pretty well stocked at lock going forward, but I think there's a decent opening for a truly powerful and destructive 6. You can imagine Launchbury/Lawes at lock with Itoje at 6, Robshaw at 7 and Vunipola/Morgan at 8 forming the core of a very decent (and fairly experienced) pack in a couple of years time. Add a Cole, Cowan-Dickie and Corbisiero front row and you're in business. Almost as promising as Scotland....

Telegraph say it will be a 45 man squad. I'm sure there's some flexibility around this number, and there'll have to be if Lancaster *does* select some France-based players.

If 45 is his number, he should select 45 from the Premiership and then add the France-based player(s) on top of that number. Then no Premiership players will feel aggrieved that their spot was taken unjustly.

Given this number, here's who I'd select assuming no injuries:

LH Props: Marler, Vunipola, Corbisiero
TH Props: Cole, Brookes, Wilson
Hooker: Hartley, Youngs, Webber, George
Lock: Lawes, Launchbury, Parling, Attwood, Kruis, Itoje
BS: Wood, Croft, Haskell
OS: Robshaw, Kvesic
No 8: Vunipola, Morgan, Easter

SH: Youngs, Care, Simpson, Wigglesworth
FH: Ford, Farrell, Cipriani, Slade
C: Joseph, Tuliagi, Barritt, Eastmond, Daly, Burgess
W: Nowell, May, Ashton, Wade
FB: Brown, Watson, Goode

France-based players: Armitage (S)

Croft and Morgan are out long term, so I'd use Armitage to cover one and bring in Ewers to cover the other. Wilson I'd cover with Thomas.

I don't expect Burgess (or maybe Easter) to make it to the final 31, but winning mentality and experience will be boosted to the inclusion of these guys in the training squad.

Omissions: Twelvetrees, Burrell, Abendanon (if you can cal it an omission).

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

BamBam wrote:I guess with Itoje he's still not at his full size, I see him as a lock when he physically matures but if he chooses could easily be a 6. For England, I would prefer him as a carrying and hard hitting 6 in the  mould of a Kaino (if not quite so destructive)

I think Itoje's a fantastic player, but is he a powerful enough carrier in heavy traffic (a genuine question, haven't really seen this element of his game).  He's athletic enough to be very eye catching, but we always seem to return to the question at the moment with England, have they got the hard yards in them.  Games like the Dublin defeat have left me wishing for a touch less athleticism and a little more power.  The balance is so nearly there, it is frustrating.

I agree that he should focus at 6. Kaino would be an excellent player upon which to model his game. England are pretty well stocked at lock going forward, but I think there's a decent opening for a truly powerful and destructive 6. You can imagine Launchbury/Lawes at lock with Itoje at 6, Robshaw at 7 and Vunipola/Morgan at 8 forming the core of a very decent (and fairly experienced) pack in a couple of years time. Add a Cole, Cowan-Dickie and Corbisiero front row and you're in business. Almost as promising as Scotland....  

Would be very pleased to see that.

There isn't going to be many changes to the squad that was in the 6n.

It really irriates me that Armitage hasn't been remotely involved in the 6n or previous yet seems to be this automatic pick for the WC squad.

Id rather focus on Kvesic who is playing consistently excellent for a poor side, as opposed to Armitage who gets an armchair ride in a top side.

Will be interesting to see how many of the injured come back and find some form or whether they've already done enough/shown something that the coaches are after. Would suspect that Slater may come through if fit and provide a real challenge to the incumbants.

GeordieFalcon wrote:There isn't going to be many changes to the squad that was in the 6n.

It really irritates me that Armitage hasn't been remotely involved in the 6n or previous yet seems to be this automatic pick for the WC squad.

Id rather focus on Kvesic who is playing consistently excellent for a poor side, as opposed to Armitage who gets an armchair ride in a top side.

The Armitage twerps went to France for the money knowing full well the implications on England selection. Neither of them should be anywhere near the team (some fool did actually suggested Delon was worth a look? ). Steffon gets an Armchair ride at Toulon and would be exposed playing for England under the current system/tactics. Furthermore, SL should not (and I suspect will not) consider them for selection on principle. I would even advocate the likes of Tuilagi not being automatically parachuted back in without re-earning his place, so how anyone can have an Armitage in the WC squad selection is baffling.

GeordieFalcon wrote:There isn't going to be many changes to the squad that was in the 6n.

It really irriates me that Armitage hasn't been remotely involved in the 6n or previous yet seems to be this automatic pick for the WC squad.

Id rather focus on Kvesic who is playing consistently excellent for a poor side, as opposed to Armitage who gets an armchair ride in a top side.

Lancaster has the luxury that he can effectively look at anyone he wants to in the pre-RWC camp, so I would expect him to bring in both Armitage and Kvesic. I don't think Armitage is an automatic pick for the final squad, whatever the pundits think (though even they seem to think his chances are waning given his off the field issues). But it's a no-lose situation for Lancaster to bring him in for the training squad. If he comes in and plays well, he's an option; if he comes in and doesn't gel, or is exposed without the mighty Toulon pack, or simply isn't fit enough, Lancaster can say "we looked at him and he didn't cut it in training."

All the signs are that this coaching team sets a lot of store by performances in training - probably correctly as it's the only situation in which they can see all the players on an equal footing. So I'd expect them to look at anyone who has been on their radar and is likely to be fit in time for the warm-ups. For one thing, it means they can pick a squad late and based on both form and fitness, and for another it means they maximise the pool of players they can draw on in case of injury.

Jimpy wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:There isn't going to be many changes to the squad that was in the 6n.

It really irritates me that Armitage hasn't been remotely involved in the 6n or previous yet seems to be this automatic pick for the WC squad.

Id rather focus on Kvesic who is playing consistently excellent for a poor side, as opposed to Armitage who gets an armchair ride in a top side.

The Armitage twerps went to France for the money knowing full well the implications on England selection. Neither of them should be anywhere near the team (some fool did actually suggested Delon was worth a look? ). Steffon gets an Armchair ride at Toulon and would be exposed playing for England under the current system/tactics. Furthermore, SL should not (and I suspect will not) consider them for selection on principle. I would even advocate the likes of Tuilagi not being automatically parachuted back in without re-earning his place, so how anyone can have an Armitage in the WC squad selection is baffling.

The problem for Lancaster is that the press won't shut up about them and it's a fairly major distraction. It costs him comparatively little to call Steffon (at least) in for the training squad and ditch them if they don't cut it. "We looked at him and he didn't cut it" is a lot harder for Jones, Barnes etc to go on about.

beshocked wrote:king carlos in theory your squad looks good but in practice.....

Hartley - poor form
Webber - is he playing well?
Wilson - isn't he injured?
Corbisiero - poor form, I think he's still living off the Lions tour.
Care in laughably poor form.
Farrell - injured currently and hasn't played well in over a year.
Haskell - poor 6 nations
Morgan - injured
Tuilagi - injured

The squad doesn't look as strong when you take that into account.

Bambam Funny thing about Goode is he keeps doing the business at club level. Made an excellent line break vs Racing Metro too.


Significant wild card is  Maro Itoje - came on for Hamilton vs Racing Metro - didn't look out of place. Looks like he'll be a real star in the not so distant future. We all know he's on Lancaster's radar after he put him in the Saxons.

Not so worried about form, as there's time enough for that to change, but it would be worth starting to track the injuries. What are the ones we know about at the moment?

Wilson - similar problem to Cole - I believe he is expected to be back in time for the training camp. Anyone got more details?
Corbisiero - not strictly injured, but is he showing signs of being able to put 6 or 7 games together?
Farrell - short term injury but clearly beset with niggles
Morgan - serious broken leg, isn't expected to play again this season. Unclear whether he will be fit for the training camp (and very unlikely to be mach fit)
Tuilagi - groin injury that doesn't appear to be healing well - hasn't Cockers said he won't play again this season?
Croft - also out til the end of the season?
Foden - thought to be definitely out of RWC contention

Who else?
Robshaw and Wood have ongoing stinger and foot problems respectively but appear to be managing them - thus far.
Easter is being pursued by Old Father Time, but hasn't been caught yet (now THAT's slow)
Brown doesn't appear fully over his concussion (but should have enough time to recover before RWC)
Haskell has some sort of serious head injury as well; at least, he regularly appears to have left part of his brain in the changing room.

You have a point Poofour but It just annoys me.

It will be interesting to see who is invited to the extended squad.

Players like Garvey, Ewers?

Geordiefalcon you say that S.Armitage gets an armchair ride at Toulon. At least he's shown he's good enough to be in their starting line up. Toulon might well make him look good but with England he wouldn't exactly have a bad pack would he?

As it stands I would only pick S.Armitage as a last resort - if for example Robshaw is ruled out of the RWC.

Same with Abendanon and D.Armitage - only look at them if there is a real injury crisis.

Poorfour yes there is time to change form but it doesn't mean it will.

Spaynter quite like that extended squad of yours.

beshocked wrote:Geordiefalcon you say that S.Armitage gets an armchair ride at Toulon. At least he's shown he's good enough to be in their starting line up. Toulon might well make him look good but with England he wouldn't exactly have a bad pack would he?

As it stands I would only pick S.Armitage as a last resort - if for example Robshaw is ruled out of the RWC.

Same with Abendanon and D.Armitage - only look at them if there is a real injury crisis.

Poorfour yes there is time to change form but it doesn't mean it will.

Spaynter quite like that extended squad of yours.

Yes, like if every other male between the age of 18 and 35 who played rugby in England went down with Ebola prior to the WC.

Neither are eligible. Neither have impressed for England and in the case of Armitage, his obvious contempt for officials and some English fans should rule him out all together.