Welsh World Cup Squad

First topic message reminder :

Dragons not playing until tomorrow and quiet on here so just wondered what early thoughts are on the Welsh WC squad.  I think a lot of it will pick itself unless injury or shock retirements dictate.  I have gone with a 30 man squad 16/14 forwards/back split same as last world cup so here's my thought.

Here's the 47 man Training Squad, Players in bold are the ones I think are already inked in:

Props (5) JENKINS,JAMES,LEE, Evans, Francis, Jarvis, Andrews
Hookers (3) BALDWIN,OWENS, Dacey
2 Row (3) AWJ, CHARTERIS, Ball, Davies, Day
Backrow (5) FALETAU, WARBURTON, LYDIATE, TIPURIC,Moriarty, King

No9s (3) WEBB, Davies, Ll Williams
No10s (3) BIGGAR, PRIESTLAND, Anscombe, Morgan
Centres (3) ROBERTS, Sc WILLIAMS, Morgan, Allen
Back 3 (5) NORTH, HALFPENNY, Li WILLIAMS, Cuthbert, Walker, Amos, James (Then 2 from Cuthbert, Amos, Walker) For me Cuthbert and Amos

As I said the ones in Bold are the ones I feel are already pencilled in to go. Updated squad as we stand now

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I could see Gats going for Warburton at 8, and Tips open side if Faletau were to be injured.

If it was during a game and Baker wasn't on the bench then that would seem the best option but I would hope that if it happened before a game or if Baker was on the bench he would use him, otherwise why pick him.

Agreed..!

The interesting thing this will also hopefully lead to will be seeing who at the regions gets opportunities to play number eight during the RWC and who can impress to be next in line.

Navidi had some great games at eight for the blues this year and other lads like Ieuan Jones have impressed at times.

Rory Pitman and Morgan Allen will be at the Scarlets fighting it out.

Who do the dragons have to cover Toby while he is away?

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I could see Gats going for Warburton at 8, and Tips open side if Faletau were to be injured.

If it was during a game and Baker wasn't on the bench then that would seem the best option but I would hope that if it happened before a game or if Baker was on the bench he would use him, otherwise why pick him.

Agreed..!

The interesting thing this will also hopefully lead to will be seeing who at the regions gets opportunities to play number eight during the RWC and who can impress to be next in line.

Navidi had some great games at eight for the blues this year and other lads like Ieuan Jones have impressed at times.

Rory Pitman and Morgan Allen will be at the Scarlets fighting it out.

Who do the dragons have to cover Toby while he is away?

Nick Crosswell

The Ospreys have the best cover of them all, a certain Mr Delve. I don't for one minute think he has gone there to play 2nd fiddle to Baker and fully expect him to be pushing him all the way all season.

Delve will certainly be 2nd fiddle.

Saint,

We will revisit this half way through season bu I would be surprised if he is.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saint,

We will revisit this half way through season bu I would be surprised if he is.

Halfway through the season Delve will have played twice as many games for the Ospreys than Baker. Purely down to the RWC, and the 'rest' time afterwards.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saint,

We will revisit this half way through season bu I would be surprised if he is.

We sure will. But you think he's capable of being in the Wales team, and captain right? From all that I have seen this comes across a bit bonkers!

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saint,

We will revisit this half way through season bu I would be surprised if he is.

We sure will. But you think he's capable of being in the Wales team, and captain right? From all that I have seen this comes across a bit bonkers!

Not anymore no and haven't said such. Years ago yes I would have had him as first choice No8 and captain ahead of Ryan Jones, now I think he will push Baker all the way and it wouldn't surprise me if he became first choice at the Os.

That in itself could be a great thing as if Baker then wants to get on he would have to raise his game and battle Delve all the way etc.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Saint,

We will revisit this half way through season bu I would be surprised if he is.

We sure will. But you think he's capable of being in the Wales team, and captain right? From all that I have seen this comes across a bit bonkers!

Not anymore no and haven't said such.  Years ago yes I would have had him as first choice No8 and captain ahead of Ryan Jones, now I think he will push Baker all the way and it wouldn't surprise me if he became first choice at the Os.

That in itself could be a great thing as if Baker then wants to get on he would have to raise his game and battle Delve all the way etc.

Delve is going to have to be in some pretty awesome form to oust Baker. It's a win win perspective by all accounts

Thats the good thing Maes, if he does and I really think he will then it can only benefit Baker.

Definitely mate. It will benefit Wales too.

It'll be great to finally see him at one of the regions

The Saint wrote:If it's Sam Davies then fans should stop paying to go and watch matches. I thought we moved on from all this capping for the sake of it rubbish - though in Francis' case I think we can all agree there's an exception.

And Moriarty, please, asap. England missed a trick but i suppose they do have Nick Easter as back up carrier.

Yes quite possibly, though I think guys like Francis and Moriarty have a better chance of being regular players in the Wales team in the near future.

The Saint wrote:Yes quite possibly, though I think guys like Francis and Moriarty have a better chance of being regular players in the Wales team in the near future.

I disagree, a player like Moriarty is exactly what we need in the back row. His main asset is his pure aggression in possession. He is exactly the sort we need; much as i respect all of our back row they are a fairly passive lot by comparison and i expect to see him figure this RWC.

Moriarty isn't ready for International rugby by a long shot. He's came on nicely at Gloucester but gives away a lot of stupid pens and shows his age at times.

He's a decent carrier and aggressive but he'd be miles away from an England cap.

Gwlad wrote:

The Saint wrote:Yes quite possibly, though I think guys like Francis and Moriarty have a better chance of being regular players in the Wales team in the near future.

I disagree, a player like Moriarty is exactly what we need in the back row. His main asset is his pure aggression in possession. He is exactly the sort we need; much as i respect all of our back row they are a fairly passive lot by comparison and i expect to see him figure this RWC.

How can you disagree I was pretty much agreeing with you, in stating that these two players have a better chance of being regulars than some others in that RWC squad...

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Moriarty isn't ready for International rugby by a long shot. He's came on nicely at Gloucester but gives away a lot of stupid pens and shows his age at times.

He's a decent carrier and aggressive but he'd be miles away from an England cap.

We'll hopefully work on that with him. He isn't close to being first choice in a position yet, maybe we'll have a better idea in the near future.

The only real reason to get him involved is to stop us capping him and hope he develops in a year or two.

Likely scenario. He's probably better than Turnbull and Shingler though. How those two got that many caps I'll never know.

I'm not sure he's quite at their level yet but he could be develop past them.

I think the reason Moriarty is getting looked at (other than to cap him) is that we don't have many proper 6s after Lydiate.

The likes of Navidi, Turnbull, Shingler, Davies, Cudd etc are more 7s/8s though I think the likes of Navidi, Turnbull and Shingler could and have all played 6.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Moriarty isn't ready for International rugby by a long shot. He's came on nicely at Gloucester but gives away a lot of stupid pens and shows his age at times.

He's a decent carrier and aggressive but he'd be miles away from an England cap.

Which is surprising when England seem to cap everyone that moves. I wonder if they bought several years worth of 6 Nations champions caps along with those 6 Nations champions t shirts and needed to clear the warehouse for the RWC Champions stock? But its true England have some real class to choose from such as Haskell.

I do not know if this is relevant to this thread, but Wales have secured the services of highly respected and experienced fitness expert Paul Stridgeon as consultant Head of Physical Performance.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_55930,00.html

No, it isn't relevant to the thread.

Good appointment though.

LordDowlais wrote:I do not know if this is relevant to this thread, but Wales have secured the services of highly respected and experienced fitness expert Paul Stridgeon as consultant Head of Physical Performance.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_55930,00.html

As we saw in the last RWC fitness is key to doing well. More so with a tougher group than many other teams.

Gwlad wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Moriarty isn't ready for International rugby by a long shot. He's came on nicely at Gloucester but gives away a lot of stupid pens and shows his age at times.

He's a decent carrier and aggressive but he'd be miles away from an England cap.

Which is surprising when England seem to cap everyone that moves. I wonder if they bought several years worth of 6 Nations champions caps along with those 6 Nations champions t shirts and needed to clear the warehouse for the RWC Champions stock? But its true England have some real class to choose from such as Haskell.

I take it you're the token Wum Gwlad?

In response to your suggestion, not really, they cap players that they think are at the required level, Moriarty is a long long way down the pecking order.

It's a misguided view if you think Moriarty is this outstanding player that's going to walk into the Welsh team and has been stole from under the nose of Lancaster.

He's had an ok season but isn't first choice at Gloucester and isn't on Lancaster's radar, because he's not currently good enough.

He may well develop into a very good player but he's not there yet.

I'm not for one minute suggesting he's not good enough for England but good enough for Wales, he's not good enough for either. Our first choice XV's are pretty close if I'm honest but one thing we do have is a crazy amount of player at a decent level in every position.

Players better and ahead of Moriarty: Wood, Haskell, Ewers, Gibson, Croft, Clifford, Clark, Wray, Wilson, Burgess, Fearns, Robshaw, Johnson, Vuinipola etc.

Pooly,

What's the transition been like for the English U20 boys over the years do many actually make the grade?

BW, it's increased year after year. The reform carried out about 8-10 years ago is really paying dividends.

The transition time between U20 level and full Int cap also seems to be shortening. It's generally taking 2-3 years for the transition I reckon with the odd special talent (Ford, Watson, Nowell, Launchbury) taking a bit less.

The Welsh have always been good at U20 level, I'm surprised more don't come though.

It's usually the same amount of time in Wales but there are sometimes individuals ready to step up immediately, as has been the case with George North, Toby Faletau, Leigh Halfpenny and soon to be added to the list Tyler Morgan. There are also some who aren't cut out for the top level, but they're mostly identifiable at age grade level anyway. There certainly won't be any wingers making the step up from the current U20 team, I doubt the centres will either.

You've had some real talent come through over the years, Morgan certainly could be added to that list.

The question posed on BBC Wales radio last night was, who are the two U20s World Cup winners named in the current Welsh training squad?

Ross Moriarty and Gareth Anscombe.

The Saint wrote:Ross Moriarty and Gareth Anscombe.

lol, Yeah had them stumped for a while, well Moriarty was first name that he got Anscombe took a while.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:BW, it's increased year after year. The reform carried out about 8-10 years ago is really paying dividends.

The transition time between U20 level and full Int cap also seems to be shortening. It's generally taking 2-3 years for the transition I reckon with the odd special talent (Ford, Watson, Nowell, Launchbury) taking a bit less.

The Welsh have always been good at U20 level, I'm surprised more don't come though.

I'd add that of course the transition time is different for forwards and backs. I could be wrong but think Nowell and LCD were in the same U20 squad. If LCD does break through into the international team it will be a good couple of years after .

Yea backs obviously transition quicker generally although Launchbury, Vuinipola brothers and possibly Marler have bucked this trend.

I'd expect to see LCD, Clifford and Itoje get capped next year.

It's usually front row players that take a while to make the break... Behind the front row I think our locks and back row players all came into the team pretty young, but didn't become regulars until early 2011. James Hook made his debut for Wales before having a pro contract, he had mostly played semi-pro for Neath as far as I know, but afterwards he became a bit of a regular for some years.

Snajay could be missing out on the RWC now due to a foot injury.

SS,

Beat me to it although the report a bit vague. Lets hope he gets enough time to recover before the tournament starts, if he does miss it then for that is a bigger blow than JD being out.

Again if he is ruled out then I would like to see Amos or Walker given a crack as they offer something different to the big bosh style that reverting back to Cuthbert would bring

It could be the break that Amos has been waiting for.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:It could be the break that Amos has been waiting for.

Yep they are part of the game and as door shuts for one opens for another etc.

The vagueness of the reporting on Williams injury and surgery suggests it may be serious. Shame for the lad if so.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:It could be the break that Amos has been waiting for.

Yep they are part of the game and as door shuts for one opens for another etc.

Best way to look at it - we really need to start playing with some flair, we have the players for it - even England are more adventurous than us in attack

Amos is a similar type of player to Liam Williams - he's a genuine back-three player and he likes to counter-attack. That said, it would be a huge blow if Williams misses out.

Well he is still training with the squad, so it cannot be too bad

wales606 wrote:Well he is still training with the squad, so it cannot be too bad

That doesn't mean much really.

Interestingly I read somewhere a Scarlets statement earlier in the week where they said the players were being signed over to the WRU medical staff as of X date (I can't remember the date) and at the time I thought that it sounded an odd way to say they would be with the welsh squad. But now in hindsight I wonder if it is part of the RRW/WRU piece deal that the union pay for player injuries/ops during the time the players are in their care, and only return the player when fit.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Amos is a similar type of player to Liam Williams - he's a genuine back-three player and he likes to counter-attack. That said, it would be a huge blow if Williams misses out.

I'd worry about him covering fullback at Test level mind - good under the high ball but kicking isn't top notch.

munkian wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Amos is a similar type of player to Liam Williams - he's a genuine back-three player and he likes to counter-attack. That said, it would be a huge blow if Williams misses out.

I'd worry about him covering fullback at Test level mind - good under the high ball but kicking isn't top notch.

I would guess that if Amos started then maybe Hook would be used on the bench as XV cover.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

munkian wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Amos is a similar type of player to Liam Williams - he's a genuine back-three player and he likes to counter-attack. That said, it would be a huge blow if Williams misses out.

I'd worry about him covering fullback at Test level mind - good under the high ball but kicking isn't top notch.

I would guess that if Amos started then maybe Hook would be used on the bench as XV cover.

I'd happily start Amos on the wing if Sanjay is still injured, wouldnt start him as FB though, maybe give him a shot on bench in the warm ups at FB in warm ups

Are we seriously considering Amos over Cuthbert?