Welsh World Cup Squad

by bedfordwelsh Sat 11 Apr 2015, 9:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Dragons not playing until tomorrow and quiet on here so just wondered what early thoughts are on the Welsh WC squad. I think a lot of it will pick itself unless injury or shock retirements Wink

dictate. I have gone with a 30 man squad 16/14 forwards/back split same as last world cup so here's my thought.

Here's the 47 man Training Squad, Players in bold are the ones I think are already inked in:

Props (5) JENKINS,JAMES,LEE, Evans, Francis, Jarvis, Andrews
Hookers (3) BALDWIN,OWENS, Dacey
2 Row (3) AWJ, CHARTERIS, Ball, Davies, Day
Backrow (5) FALETAU, WARBURTON, LYDIATE, TIPURIC,Moriarty, King

No9s (3) WEBB, Davies, Ll Williams
No10s (3) BIGGAR, PRIESTLAND, Anscombe, Morgan
Centres (3) ROBERTS, Sc WILLIAMS, Morgan, Allen
Back 3 (5) NORTH, HALFPENNY, Li WILLIAMS, Cuthbert, Walker, Amos, James (Then 2 from Cuthbert, Amos, Walker) For me Cuthbert and Amos

As I said the ones in Bold are the ones I feel are already pencilled in to go. Updated squad as we stand now

by Guest Wed 10 Jun 2015, 10:35 am

maestegmafia wrote:
The Saint wrote:Now you're making me yawn... I just don't see why you think Thornton will break into our seniors RWC squad when he is not better than our 4 current locks, with James King as the likely back-up. It must be an Ospreylian thing where you guys aren't satisfied unless there's 15 Ospreys starting in the Wales team!

Zzz zzz zzz zzz

You're being pathetic Maes. Why post anything at all? Just log out and leave.

by Guest Wed 10 Jun 2015, 10:39 am

George Carlin wrote:Is it really a massive surprise on form, though? As blindsides go, he must be playing at least as well as anyone at the moment and he's been consistent all season.

And his dad and his uncle both played for Wales.

Still a massive surprise for me as the lad has never shown any signs of wanting to play for Wales (has he even been here?!). He's England U20 and played all of his rugby in England. I wouldn't have been surprised if England had called him up as I consider him their player!

by Guest Wed 10 Jun 2015, 10:45 am

The Saint wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
munkian wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that. Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England, and Pretorious was also capped to ensure he was tied to us. Im not to sure about Howells, but I am thinking there must have been something like that going on as it was before he played for the U20s (and tired to Wales). If Morriaty, Dom Day and Francis get capped then I would say it is pretty much the same as Prydie and Pretorious, ensuring that they are not available for anyone other than us. But if Thornton gets capped, seeing as he is tied already, I would have to say it is because he has shown up in training as one for the future.

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious

So did North, and Cuthbert, who also fall into the 'cap them to stop others doing it' category.

Again, those two wingers were playing regularly for a region and scoring tries every week... It was rewarding form players playing for the right regions.

I agree there. North was tearing up the Pro12 scoring some awesome length of the filed tries for Scarlets. Cuthbert was doing well too I believe and performed well on the 7s international circuit. Prydie, if I remember rightly, got a Wales cap before he ever played for the Ospreys. Or was that Kristian Phillips? Or both?! I remember at the time there was a bit of furore about it as he was not picking on (professional club rugby) form.

by lostinwales Wed 10 Jun 2015, 10:47 am

Moriaty has come through the English system but he won't be the first Welsh player to have done this. Mind you the last top U20 English player who went to Wales that comes to mind was Hugo Ellis. That didn't turn out too well.

He seems to be a good player but he seems to have discipline issues

by Guest Wed 10 Jun 2015, 10:49 am

munkian wrote:Pretty sure Lewis Evans was injured rather than 'found wanting'....

The issue I had with his quote below was writing as one and only squad trial, when surely the Possibles v Probables last year was very much a squad trial.

wayne wrote:
IMO,your absolutely spot on BW, it is just like the situation in the 2011 Australia Autumn International game which was one of Shane's farewell games, when he called up Lewis Evans for his one and only squad trial and was found wanting, never to be seen again.

by bedfordwelsh Wed 10 Jun 2015, 11:24 am

Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Is it really a massive surprise on form, though? As blindsides go, he must be playing at least as well as anyone at the moment and he's been consistent all season.

And his dad and his uncle both played for Wales.

Still a massive surprise for me as the lad has never shown any signs of wanting to play for Wales (has he even been here?!). He's England U20 and played all of his rugby in England. I wouldn't have been surprised if England had called him up as I consider him their player!

I agree still a big surprise given his name hadn't cropped up before though I think he played some of his younger rugby in the Swansea area Griff when Paul was coach at the Scarlets.

by **George Carlin** Wed 10 Jun 2015, 11:37 am

lostinwales wrote:Moriaty has come through the English system but he won't be the first Welsh player to have done this. Mind you the last top U20 English player who went to Wales that comes to mind was Hugo Ellis. That didn't turn out too well.

He seems to be a good player but he seems to have discipline issues

He actually won the Junior World Championships twice as an England player.

I wasn't aware that he had disciplined problems mind.

Are we talking 'Danny Grewcock discipline problems'? Or a lesser version of that?

Or 'the Full Dylan Harley'? Run

by lostinwales Wed 10 Jun 2015, 12:09 pm

Hmm quick check

Sent off in a U20 international against Ireland (tip tackle)

Yellow card and cited after the challenge cup game against Edinburgh (kneeing)

Another yellow card vs Harlequins.

So not a lot yet but might be worth keeping an eye on, and probably more Grewcock than Hartley Smile

by ScarletSpiderman Wed 10 Jun 2015, 12:44 pm

Griff wrote:
The Saint wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
munkian wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that. Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England....

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious...

So did North, and Cuthbert, who also fall into the 'cap them to stop others doing it' category.

Again, those two wingers were playing regularly for a region and scoring tries every week... .

I agree there. North was tearing up the Pro12 scoring some awesome length of the filed tries for Scarlets. Cuthbert was doing well too I believe and performed well on the 7s international circuit. Prydie, if I remember rightly, got a Wales cap before he ever played for the Ospreys. Or was that Kristian Phillips? Or both?! I remember at the time there was a bit of furore about it as he was not picking on (professional club rugby) form.

North had played the whole of two months of Pro rugby before getting capped by Wales. I don't think he was even into double figure of Scarlets appearances before he was named in the Welsh AI squad.

And Cuthbert had only really been playing first team rugby for a few months too (the start of the season to the 6Ns).

Kris Phillips and Prydie were called up the same time, then Kris dropped out the training squad due to a family death (and has not been involved since).

by bedfordwelsh Wed 10 Jun 2015, 2:38 pm

Prydie has been included in a few squads off and on since then but never really kicked on though he did have a nasty leg break a few seasons ago.

Some players will break through others just won't cut it for various reasons. I really hope Amos gets a chance as I think he has that something different and extra to our other wingers at the moment plus he's been in great form for us - just don't let him kick Wink

by wayne Wed 10 Jun 2015, 5:07 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
munkian wrote:Pretty sure Lewis Evans was injured rather than 'found wanting'....

The issue I had with his quote below was writing as one and only squad trial, when surely the Possibles v Probables last year was very much a squad trial.

wayne wrote:
IMO,your absolutely spot on BW, it is just like the situation in the 2011 Australia Autumn International game which was one of Shane's farewell games, when he called up Lewis Evans for his one and only squad trial and was found wanting, never to be seen again.

Rev, sorry didn't mean trials, I was referring to squads for AI and 6N matches, anyway did you receive a PM from me this morning as I sent one at about 10 oclock, explaining why I sent that comment, I doubt you've received it or you would have replied, I've got Welsh in a few minutes and if you can reply to this, I'll see if I can re-send it later tonight.

by maestegmafia Wed 10 Jun 2015, 5:10 pm

I agree with you on Amos... He has shown some class this season. Probably our most natural attacking player after Liam williams and Rhys Webb.

Beds I am surprised you picked Phillips over Davies as s scrum half in your squad selection previously..?

I think Davies is ahead of Phillips in the reckoning..

I'm a little surprised to see Lloyd Williams there, he has been average in most games, with a few good touches.

by The Saint Wed 10 Jun 2015, 6:38 pm

Risca Rev wrote:
munkian wrote:Pretty sure Lewis Evans was injured rather than 'found wanting'....

The issue I had with his quote below was writing as one and only squad trial, when surely the Possibles v Probables last year was very much a squad trial.

wayne wrote:
IMO,your absolutely spot on BW, it is just like the situation in the 2011 Australia Autumn International game which was one of Shane's farewell games, when he called up Lewis Evans for his one and only squad trial and was found wanting, never to be seen again.

Rev you're obviously spot on. Yet that doesn't stop this Ospreylian cave dweller posting crap comments in an attempt to wind me up. Didn't work BTW.

Thornton isn't the next best thing, get over it. thumbsup

by The Saint Wed 10 Jun 2015, 6:43 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Griff wrote:
The Saint wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
munkian wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that. Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England....

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious...

So did North, and Cuthbert, who also fall into the 'cap them to stop others doing it' category.

Again, those two wingers were playing regularly for a region and scoring tries every week... .

I agree there. North was tearing up the Pro12 scoring some awesome length of the filed tries for Scarlets. Cuthbert was doing well too I believe and performed well on the 7s international circuit. Prydie, if I remember rightly, got a Wales cap before he ever played for the Ospreys. Or was that Kristian Phillips? Or both?! I remember at the time there was a bit of furore about it as he was not picking on (professional club rugby) form.

North had played the whole of two months of Pro rugby before getting capped by Wales. I don't think he was even into double figure of Scarlets appearances before he was named in the Welsh AI squad.

And Cuthbert had only really been playing first team rugby for a few months too (the start of the season to the 6Ns).

Kris Phillips and Prydie were called up the same time, then Kris dropped out the training squad due to a family death (and has not been involved since).

It was regular rugby and more than the aforementioned novelties; except for Pretorious who should not have even been capped on that form. You can't say North or Cuthbert didn't carry this form into the Wales team now can you...

by bedfordwelsh Wed 10 Jun 2015, 9:27 pm

maestegmafia wrote:I agree with you on Amos... He has shown some class this season. Probably our most natural attacking player after Liam williams and Rhys Webb.

Beds I am surprised you picked Phillips over Davies as s scrum half in your squad selection previously..?

I think Davies is ahead of Phillips in the reckoning..

I'm a little surprised to see Lloyd Williams there, he has been average in most games, with a few good touches.

maes,

Not my squad as such more the ones I think Gatland has already pencilled in and will take unless injury dictates. For me Webb and Davies are ahead of him but feel Gatland will take him.

by maestegmafia Thu 11 Jun 2015, 12:28 am

They took three scrum halfs last time, I imagine they will again

by bedfordwelsh Thu 11 Jun 2015, 8:16 am

maestegmafia wrote:They took three scrum halfs last time, I imagine they will again

Pretty sure they will and I am pretty certain Davies will be one of them but I feel 110% that Phillips and Webb are already pencilled in.

by wayne Thu 11 Jun 2015, 8:31 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
wayne wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:These squads are in part designed for that, Gatland will have I reckon about 20-22 players who are already in his squad so the other players will be pushing for these extra slots.

In the process some will prove to coaches that whilst they may not make this squad they will make the break through sooner rather than later while others will be found out.
I nearly totally agree with that BW except for the number, I reckon 25 to 26 are penciled in, it is the last 5 or 6 to fill.

Wayne,

These are the ones I think are already in the squad:

Backs: Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), George North (Northampton Saints), Liam Williams (Scarlets).

Forwards: Paul James (Bath Rugby), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester Rugby), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (CAPT - Cardiff Blues)

Others such as Ball, Davies, Rh Jones, G Davies are there or there abouts with others then dependent on whether he takes out an out specialists or utility players.

BW, sorry for the delay in responding, I had a very busy day yesterday, I agree with all your selections and also believe Ball, Brad Davies and G Davies are all certainties, the only thing against that prognosis is that in 2011 there were only 3 second rows selected, but with it increased to 31 this time I think 4 will go, I think the big problem is at prop, whether Samson is fit, if he is fit we could use James as a double up, if not we would need 3 in each position IMO.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 11 Jun 2015, 8:36 am

Wayne,

No probs, there are few little grey areas I agree. I would take Ball but its how he then breaks down the rest of the squad, does he take 3 with someone like King going as a utility type 2nd row/backrow cover option.

Lee is the big worry for me as after him we just don't have the cover. Francis, whilst getting great reviews is still un tested, Jarvis has never really convinced me and Rh Jones his a converted loose head who himself has been injured.

I also think G Davies will go but the ones I listed are as said the ones I feel already pencilled in.

by wayne Thu 11 Jun 2015, 11:14 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne,

No probs, there are few little grey areas I agree. I would take Ball but its how he then breaks down the rest of the squad, does he take 3 with someone like King going as a utility type 2nd row/backrow cover option.

Lee is the big worry for me as after him we just don't have the cover. Francis, whilst getting great reviews is still un tested, Jarvis has never really convinced me and Rh Jones his a converted loose head who himself has been injured.

I also think G Davies will go but the ones I listed are as said the ones I feel already pencilled in.

BW, both Ball and Davies IIRC have been in the squad all year and have done nothing wrong, I can't see him going past those 2, and as I said if Lee is fit he could pick just 1 other t/h and have James to fill across, but that is very dodgy in my eyes, I would rather have 3 of each, your right about Jarvis he doesn't fill me with confidence even at Regional level in the scrum but he is very mobile (at least in comparison to Adam).

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 11 Jun 2015, 1:39 pm

The Saint wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Griff wrote:
The Saint wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
munkian wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that. Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England....

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious...

So did North, and Cuthbert, who also fall into the 'cap them to stop others doing it' category.

Again, those two wingers were playing regularly for a region and scoring tries every week... .

I agree there. North was tearing up the Pro12 scoring some awesome length of the filed tries for Scarlets. Cuthbert was doing well too I believe and performed well on the 7s international circuit. Prydie, if I remember rightly, got a Wales cap before he ever played for the Ospreys. Or was that Kristian Phillips? Or both?! I remember at the time there was a bit of furore about it as he was not picking on (professional club rugby) form.

North had played the whole of two months of Pro rugby before getting capped by Wales. I don't think he was even into double figure of Scarlets appearances before he was named in the Welsh AI squad.

And Cuthbert had only really been playing first team rugby for a few months too (the start of the season to the 6Ns).

Kris Phillips and Prydie were called up the same time, then Kris dropped out the training squad due to a family death (and has not been involved since).

It was regular rugby and more than the aforementioned novelties; except for Pretorious who should not have even been capped on that form. You can't say North or Cuthbert didn't carry this form into the Wales team now can you...

Your right. However, as I originally said, they were capped because they had shown signs of future potential and they were dual qualified. Gats has said (in an WalesOnline interview ages ago) that they were both, as well as Prydie, capped because he did not want them to be able to run out for anyone else.

by bedfordwelsh Thu 11 Jun 2015, 2:44 pm

wayne wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne,

No probs, there are few little grey areas I agree. I would take Ball but its how he then breaks down the rest of the squad, does he take 3 with someone like King going as a utility type 2nd row/backrow cover option.

Lee is the big worry for me as after him we just don't have the cover. Francis, whilst getting great reviews is still un tested, Jarvis has never really convinced me and Rh Jones his a converted loose head who himself has been injured.

I also think G Davies will go but the ones I listed are as said the ones I feel already pencilled in.
BW, both Ball and Davies IIRC have been in the squad all year and have done nothing wrong, I can't see him going past those 2, and as I said if Lee is fit he could pick just 1 other t/h and have James to fill across, but that is very dodgy in my eyes, I would rather have 3 of each, your right about Jarvis he doesn't fill me with confidence even at Regional level in the scrum but he is very mobile (at least in comparison to Adam).

Wayne,

I agree and I would take both but I can't be 110% sure he will where as the other I feel that certain will go.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 12 Jun 2015, 9:18 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Saint wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Griff wrote:
The Saint wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
munkian wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
The Saint wrote:And he'd been regularly playing at lock for the Scarlets. If Thornton somehow gets a cap, consider it a novelty like Prydie, Howells and Pretorious before him.

Not to sure about that. Gats has said Prydie was capped to stop him being eligible for England....

In his defense, Prydie had a much more successful debut than Pretorious...

So did North, and Cuthbert, who also fall into the 'cap them to stop others doing it' category.

Again, those two wingers were playing regularly for a region and scoring tries every week... .

I agree there. North was tearing up the Pro12 scoring some awesome length of the filed tries for Scarlets. Cuthbert was doing well too I believe and performed well on the 7s international circuit. Prydie, if I remember rightly, got a Wales cap before he ever played for the Ospreys. Or was that Kristian Phillips? Or both?! I remember at the time there was a bit of furore about it as he was not picking on (professional club rugby) form.

North had played the whole of two months of Pro rugby before getting capped by Wales. I don't think he was even into double figure of Scarlets appearances before he was named in the Welsh AI squad.

And Cuthbert had only really been playing first team rugby for a few months too (the start of the season to the 6Ns).

Kris Phillips and Prydie were called up the same time, then Kris dropped out the training squad due to a family death (and has not been involved since).

It was regular rugby and more than the aforementioned novelties; except for Pretorious who should not have even been capped on that form. You can't say North or Cuthbert didn't carry this form into the Wales team now can you...

Your right. However, as I originally said, they were capped because they had shown signs of future potential and they were dual qualified. Gats has said (in an WalesOnline interview ages ago) that they were both, as well as Prydie, capped because he did not want them to be able to run out for anyone else.

Is that I wonder then why Moriarty is in the squad, other than the U20s have England shown much interest in him? Also that is why I was surprised Francis never got capped against Italy.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 12 Jun 2015, 12:18 pm

Bedford - (avoiding all the quoting) that is more or less what I said right at the beginning of that huge list of quotes. There area a few players there who seem to be there to cap to keep hold of. Moriarty, Day, and Francis are all dual qualified. I think with the possibility of winning the 6Ns against Italy, maybe Gats didn't want to risk it just to rob England of a player they may want to use in a year or two.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 12 Jun 2015, 12:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/33089440

Thornton is out of the JWC with a knee injury.

by Guest Fri 12 Jun 2015, 1:54 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford - (avoiding all the quoting) that is more or less what I said right at the beginning of that huge list of quotes. There area a few players there who seem to be there to cap to keep hold of. Moriarty, Day, and Francis are all dual qualified. I think with the possibility of winning the 6Ns against Italy, maybe Gats didn't want to risk it just to rob England of a player they may want to use in a year or two.

Not wanting to trudge over old ground, just a genuine question: Tom Prydie, from my limited Wiki research, doesn't appear to have any links to other nations. Seems born and bred in Wales and played local age grade rugby all the way up. Perhaps a parent? But I bet most of the Welsh squad would have a non-welsh parent or grand parent, yet this capping to keep 'em policy is rarely used. Was Pryide being courted by other nations for his form in the Premiership? It always seemed strange that he got the Welsh cap before Ospreys.

by ScarletSpiderman Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:07 pm

Griff wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford - (avoiding all the quoting) that is more or less what I said right at the beginning of that huge list of quotes. There area a few players there who seem to be there to cap to keep hold of. Moriarty, Day, and Francis are all dual qualified. I think with the possibility of winning the 6Ns against Italy, maybe Gats didn't want to risk it just to rob England of a player they may want to use in a year or two.

Not wanting to trudge over old ground, just a genuine question: Tom Prydie, from my limited Wiki research, doesn't appear to have any links to other nations. Seems born and bred in Wales and played local age grade rugby all the way up. Perhaps a parent? But I bet most of the Welsh squad would have a non-welsh parent or grand parent, yet this capping to keep 'em policy is rarely used. Was Pryide being courted by other nations for his form in the Premiership? It always seemed strange that he got the Welsh cap before Ospreys.

I can not find the line about Prydie being pulled up for being English Qualified (it was on the tinterweb a while ago though). I believe it is though his father, but don't quote me on that. Although I did find these two articles which back up what I have said re-North/Cuthbert.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2514618/Warren-Gatland-poached-Alex-Cuthbert-George-North-Wales-Englands-hands.html

‘I picked Cuthbert and George North, one because they big, powerful athletes and, two, because they were both English-qualified,’ said Gatland.

‘I’ve got to take a risk sometimes on these guys who are dual-qualified. I can’t afford to sit and wait for a year until Stuart (Lancaster) makes a move.’

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/wales/8070944/Wales-call-up-virtually-unknown-wing-George-North-for-autumn-internationals.html

by lostinwales Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:41 pm

Obviously it worked out with North and Cuthbert but this 'cap once so they are tied' thing seems very cynical

by The Saint Fri 12 Jun 2015, 2:55 pm

lostinwales wrote:Obviously it worked out with North and Cuthbert but this 'cap once so they are tied' thing seems very cynical

Players aren't stupid. They can say no.

by bedfordwelsh Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:15 pm

lostinwales wrote:Obviously it worked out with North and Cuthbert but this 'cap once so they are tied' thing seems very cynical

Its the world we live in these days though, if Francis or Moriarty honestly thought they were on Englands radar they could have said no. Also pretty sure that if Anscombe thought he was anywhere near an AB cap he wouldn't have come here.

Didn't England do it years back when we showed an interest in Duncan Bell?

by munkian Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:17 pm

Didn't England cap Manu to stop him being deported ?

by bedfordwelsh Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:19 pm

Everyone is or was at it and no one is above reproach.

by lostinwales Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:23 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Obviously it worked out with North and Cuthbert but this 'cap once so they are tied' thing seems very cynical

Its the world we live in these days though, if Francis or Moriarty honestly thought they were on Englands radar they could have said no. Also pretty sure that if Anscombe thought he was anywhere near an AB cap he wouldn't have come here.

Didn't England do it years back when we showed an interest in Duncan Bell?

Possibly. We did have a 'vacancy' at the time though. If I remember right he was mostly playing in England but living in Wales, so his Welsh qualifications were pretty tenuous. Looking at his entry on wiki he got 5 caps.

I guess you could argue that Ben Morgan did say 'no'

Oh and we had no problems finding a good number of reasons for capping Manu. I don't think his dodgy visa had anything to do with it Smile

by bedfordwelsh Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:26 pm

Yeah Ben Morgan is proof that players can and do say no and fair play to him, he knew where his heart really lay and decided to pursue that route.

by munkian Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:26 pm

lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Obviously it worked out with North and Cuthbert but this 'cap once so they are tied' thing seems very cynical

Its the world we live in these days though, if Francis or Moriarty honestly thought they were on Englands radar they could have said no. Also pretty sure that if Anscombe thought he was anywhere near an AB cap he wouldn't have come here.

Didn't England do it years back when we showed an interest in Duncan Bell?

Possibly. We did have a 'vacancy' at the time though. If I remember right he was mostly playing in England but living in Wales, so his Welsh qualifications were pretty tenuous. Looking at his entry on wiki he got 5 caps.

I guess you could argue that Ben Morgan did say 'no'

Oh and we had no problems finding a good number of reasons for capping Manu. I don't think his dodgy visa had anything to do with it

Hows that working out for you ? Wink

by lostinwales Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:28 pm

munkian wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Obviously it worked out with North and Cuthbert but this 'cap once so they are tied' thing seems very cynical

Its the world we live in these days though, if Francis or Moriarty honestly thought they were on Englands radar they could have said no. Also pretty sure that if Anscombe thought he was anywhere near an AB cap he wouldn't have come here.

Didn't England do it years back when we showed an interest in Duncan Bell?

Possibly. We did have a 'vacancy' at the time though. If I remember right he was mostly playing in England but living in Wales, so his Welsh qualifications were pretty tenuous. Looking at his entry on wiki he got 5 caps.

I guess you could argue that Ben Morgan did say 'no'

Oh and we had no problems finding a good number of reasons for capping Manu. I don't think his dodgy visa had anything to do with it

Hows that working out for you ?

When they ain't broke Manu and Morgan have worked out very well for us thanks Smile

by munkian Fri 12 Jun 2015, 3:41 pm

lostinwales wrote:
munkian wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Obviously it worked out with North and Cuthbert but this 'cap once so they are tied' thing seems very cynical

Its the world we live in these days though, if Francis or Moriarty honestly thought they were on Englands radar they could have said no. Also pretty sure that if Anscombe thought he was anywhere near an AB cap he wouldn't have come here.

Didn't England do it years back when we showed an interest in Duncan Bell?

Possibly. We did have a 'vacancy' at the time though. If I remember right he was mostly playing in England but living in Wales, so his Welsh qualifications were pretty tenuous. Looking at his entry on wiki he got 5 caps.

I guess you could argue that Ben Morgan did say 'no'

Oh and we had no problems finding a good number of reasons for capping Manu. I don't think his dodgy visa had anything to do with it

Hows that working out for you ?

When they ain't broke Manu and Morgan have worked out very well for us thanks

Not against Wales so I'm happy for you Very Happy

by lostinwales Fri 12 Jun 2015, 4:09 pm

Manu scored his first international try vs Wales in a win in the summer of 2011. Since then he played vs Wales in 2012 and 2013 both Wales wins.

Ben Morgan played vs Wales in 2013 and 2014 - a loss and a win.

Obviously decisive evidence. Its also sidetracking your thread so I'll try and leave it alone Smile

by bedfordwelsh Sat 13 Jun 2015, 8:46 am

I would have loved it if Morgan has chosen Wales I think he is a great player, typical old school No8 and a great contrast to Faletau.

That said Baker is more old school No8 as well so it is good that we have two players competing but with different styles.

by maestegmafia Sat 13 Jun 2015, 9:52 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would have loved it if Morgan has chosen Wales I think he is a great player, typical old school No8 and a great contrast to Faletau.

That said Baker is more old school No8 as well so it is good that we have two players competing but with different styles.

Faletau reminds me of Merve... Where as Baker is more Derek Quinnell

by bedfordwelsh Sun 14 Jun 2015, 8:42 am

Good balance to each other too though Maes, I would start Faletau every time though that said I do hope Baker gets some decent game time in the warm ups and the WC.

by **George Carlin** Sun 14 Jun 2015, 8:47 am

Bedford - do you fancy updating the OP with the actual squad details?

by **George Carlin** Sun 14 Jun 2015, 8:50 am

lostinwales wrote:Obviously it worked out with North and Cuthbert but this 'cap once so they are tied' thing seems very cynical

Indeed. Even more sneakily we made sure that Hugh Blake was tied to Scotland instead of anywhere else by playing him in our international 7s team. devil

He hasn't even played for Glasgow yet.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 14 Jun 2015, 8:55 am

George Carlin wrote:Bedford - do you fancy updating the OP with the actual squad details?

Can do mate

by maestegmafia Sun 14 Jun 2015, 10:52 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:Good balance to each other too though Maes, I would start Faletau every time though that said I do hope Baker gets some decent game time in the warm ups and the WC.

Yes I agree. I hope Baker keeps progressing at the rate he is... He is a superb prospect. Really looking forward to him getting to a level where he genuinely is pushing Faletau for his place in the team.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 14 Jun 2015, 11:46 am

maestegmafia wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Good balance to each other too though Maes, I would start Faletau every time though that said I do hope Baker gets some decent game time in the warm ups and the WC.

Yes I agree. I hope Baker keeps progressing at the rate he is... He is a superb prospect. Really looking forward to him getting to a level where he genuinely is pushing Faletau for his place in the team.

If (lets hope not) Faletau took a knock then I would have no probs with Baker starting at 8. We would lose the experience and our style would have to change a bit but I think Baker would comfortably step in and not be out of depth.

by ScarletSpiderman Sun 14 Jun 2015, 5:02 pm

I could see Gats going for Warburton at 8, and Tips open side if Faletau were to be injured.

by The Saint Sun 14 Jun 2015, 5:18 pm

I think Gats would put Halfpenny back to wing before considering putting Warburton back at 8.

by **George Carlin** Sun 14 Jun 2015, 5:58 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Bedford - do you fancy updating the OP with the actual squad details?

Can do mate

by bedfordwelsh Mon 15 Jun 2015, 8:21 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I could see Gats going for Warburton at 8, and Tips open side if Faletau were to be injured.

If it was during a game and Baker wasn't on the bench then that would seem the best option but I would hope that if it happened before a game or if Baker was on the bench he would use him, otherwise why pick him.

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