Welsh World Cup Squad

First topic message reminder :

Dragons not playing until tomorrow and quiet on here so just wondered what early thoughts are on the Welsh WC squad.  I think a lot of it will pick itself unless injury or shock retirements dictate.  I have gone with a 30 man squad 16/14 forwards/back split same as last world cup so here's my thought.

Here's the 47 man Training Squad, Players in bold are the ones I think are already inked in:

Props (5) JENKINS,JAMES,LEE, Evans, Francis, Jarvis, Andrews
Hookers (3) BALDWIN,OWENS, Dacey
2 Row (3) AWJ, CHARTERIS, Ball, Davies, Day
Backrow (5) FALETAU, WARBURTON, LYDIATE, TIPURIC,Moriarty, King

No9s (3) WEBB, Davies, Ll Williams
No10s (3) BIGGAR, PRIESTLAND, Anscombe, Morgan
Centres (3) ROBERTS, Sc WILLIAMS, Morgan, Allen
Back 3 (5) NORTH, HALFPENNY, Li WILLIAMS, Cuthbert, Walker, Amos, James (Then 2 from Cuthbert, Amos, Walker) For me Cuthbert and Amos

As I said the ones in Bold are the ones I feel are already pencilled in to go. Updated squad as we stand now

Baldwin, Lee, Faletau, Rhys Webb all took a chance given to them by a player injured or losing form. Can't see Scott Williams inclusion as a negative in any sense of the word.

A lot would have picked him for the 6 Nations anyway given his form. Injuries happen its part and parcel of the game. The biggest one I always refer back to is Gethin Jenkins, in 05 Duncan Jones was our preferred L/head but he got injured and Jenkins came in and never looked back really.

Think Davies and Williams injury helps Hook and Anscombe case significantly…..Priestland may actually become 3rd choice pdq.

Maybe, but I really don't think Priestland has had that bad a season.

I'm interested to see how patchell goes, he may get retained while Williams is out injured

Gwlad wrote:Think Davies and Williams injury helps Hook and Anscombe case significantly…..Priestland may actually become 3rd choice pdq.

I don't think he will take both i feel it will be one or the other and I hope its Hook.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Think Davies and Williams injury helps Hook and Anscombe case significantly…..Priestland may actually become 3rd choice pdq.

I don't think he will take both i feel it will be one or the other and I hope its Hook.

I thought you didn't rate Hook.

I still think you are being ridiculously unfair on Anscombe

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Think Davies and Williams injury helps Hook and Anscombe case significantly…..Priestland may actually become 3rd choice pdq.

I don't think he will take both i feel it will be one or the other and I hope its Hook.

I thought you didn't rate Hook.

I still think you are being ridiculously unfair on Anscombe

Not Hooks biggest fan but if its a choice between Hook and Asncombe then I would take Hook.

I lost sight of Anscombe towards the end of the season.

Can someone (reasonably/remotely) impartial tell me how his season was as a whole?

It does take time to make the transition from Super Rugby. I remember Sean Maitland talking about how different it was and he needed a full season to hit his straps.

GC,

For me he's been overwhelmingly average at best, I get it takes time so let's give him that time not gift wrap him a DC and slot in the Welsh set up.

bedfordwelsh wrote:gift wrap him a DC and slot in the Welsh set up.

This is really the crux of your opinion on Anscombe. He was not gifted a DC. He played well for half a season, he is offering an alternative in a position we lack depth.

George Carlin wrote:I lost sight of Anscombe towards the end of the season.

Can someone (reasonably/remotely) impartial tell me how his season was as a whole?

It does take time to make the transition from Super Rugby. I remember Sean Maitland talking about how different it was and he needed a full season to hit his straps.

George, I think I'm pretty impartial as far as Anscombe is concerned, let me give you a different players form as far as Super Rugby is concerned, when coming to the NH, Fotualii in his first season with us was nowhere near his performance levels of the previous season in the SH, he was battling pretty evenly with Webb in that season, the following year there was no comparison as to who was the better player, and then Saints came in for him, from what I've seen of Anscombe he has the makings of a very good flyhalf, he just needs a bit of time, as for his comparison with Hook, IMO he is already a better player in that position than Hook ever was, especially for us (Ospreys), he (Hook) had occasional good games but was totally inconsistent.

wayne wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I lost sight of Anscombe towards the end of the season.

Can someone (reasonably/remotely) impartial tell me how his season was as a whole?

It does take time to make the transition from Super Rugby. I remember Sean Maitland talking about how different it was and he needed a full season to hit his straps.

George, I think I'm pretty impartial as far as Anscombe is concerned, let me give you a different players form as far as Super Rugby is concerned, when coming to the NH, Fotualii in his first season with us was nowhere near his performance levels of the previous season in the SH, he was battling pretty evenly with Webb in that season, the following year there was no comparison as to who was the better player, and then Saints came in for him, from what I've seen of Anscombe he has the makings of a very good flyhalf, he just needs a bit of time, as for his comparison with Hook, IMO he is already a better player in that position than Hook ever was, especially for us (Ospreys), he (Hook) had occasional good games but was totally inconsistent.

Very interesting - thanks to everyone who replied.

Anscombe played very well for the Chiefs, I thought, in a team that played to his strengths. Once the Blues get their structure sorted out, I expect to see more and better from him. I wouldn't have thought there was much debate about including him in the Welsh squad if there is a place for a utility back. I think that the RWC will bring out the best of him if he is selected.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:gift wrap him a DC and slot in the Welsh set up.

This is really the crux of your opinion on Anscombe. He was not gifted a DC. He played well for half a season, he is offering an alternative in a position we lack depth.

Bedford is right, Anscombe has been extremely underwhelming. If you think he's played well then you have some very mediocre expectations.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:gift wrap him a DC and slot in the Welsh set up.

This is really the crux of your opinion on Anscombe. He was not gifted a DC. He played well for half a season, he is offering an alternative in a position we lack depth.

So you think playing well for half a season warrants a DC and a Welsh squad place. I feel it was a done deal even before he pulled a Blues shirt on and was used as an incentive to get him to sign.

From what I have seen of him he hasn't done anything of real note, some good cameos but nothing to warrant all the hype. I have said give him time rather than just rush him in like he has been, then if he proves it fair enough to him.

Rumours from the Blues is that he is already be moved back to XV rather than being the 10 they wanted with Patchell being given the reigns at 10.

Good for the Blues that they have two promising players to interchange between 10 and 15. I think they're right to prioritise Patchell because from what I've seen he is better, although last season both players were pretty inconsistent.

It is good and its great if they push each other all the way improve each other etc, I never had a problem with Anscombe moving over here it's just as I mentioned I feel he's been fast tracked and was pretty much guaranteed a DC which I think is wrong.

Although Anscombe has been a little underwhelming this season, I think he's shown enough to prove he will be plenty capable to compete in the pro 12 and euro rugby should Cardiff get back there.

He has played behind a pretty poor pack, struggling for go forward and has been solid enough, his Super form proved him more than capable to handle pro 12 rugby, and this form may well return in the international set up, with centre being a worry I think we could see him at 12 during the RWC.

If in time he proves it then fair play but I haven't seen anything of real note, as for centres in the WC (I don't think he should go anyway) I would hope Morgan is ahead of him if Williams or Roberts takes a knock.

Anscomme must be behind Roberts, Williams, Dixon, Morgan, North and Hook for the centre shirt.

I'd hope so SS.

Between Dixon and Morgan I think Morgan is the one ready to step up. Not so sure about Dixon, maybe next year.

The Saint wrote:Between Dixon and Morgan I think Morgan is the one ready to step up. Not so sure about Dixon, maybe next year.

In all honesty I think this WC is a year to early for both of them but good luck to them if they get the chance, Dixon is more in the Roberts mold I think (we dont have many at mo) and I reckon we will see them line up for Wales as a 12/13 pairing sooner rather than later

I think Morgan is just too small for Test rugby, he did ok when he came on vs the Boks who had already won the game by a huge margin with something like 10 minutes to go, don't forget Cuthbert scored a length of the field try burning the likes of Habana.

If Morgan had to play from the start they would have crushed him.

IronMike wrote:I think Morgan is just too small for Test rugby, he did ok when he came on vs the Boks who had already won the game by a huge margin with something like 10 minutes to go, don't forget Cuthbert scored a length of the field try burning the likes of Habana.

If Morgan had to play from the start they would have crushed him.

Are you getting confused with Matthew Morgan ?

Yeah, we were talking about Tyler Morgan. He isn't classed as a big centre but he is a very skilful player, and definitely has an old head on young shoulders.

Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

Yeah of course AWOP.

Just something a little bit different, my daughter went to Chessington yesterday with her school, and in a break in the journey at Reading the party spotted 3 Welsh Internationals she knew Leigh Halfpenny, somebody had to tell her who AWJ was, she reckoned the other person was Eli Jenkins, I said it must have been either Eli Walker or Gethin Jenkins, after she checked with a Rugby follower it turns out to be Walker. They were on their way to Gatwick to fly to Switzerland.

Havn't they been in camp for about a week or so already?

Fanster wrote:Havn't they been in camp for about a week or so already?

Not all of them

Risca Rev wrote:Yeah of course AWOP.

+1. The jester's clothes really are coming off now. That was a very poor attempt by 'it' to get a bite.

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

Bless, please try harder

Anyone notice how he only repeats what LD and Steff have said? Strange. And no wonder it's only them two that agree with him.

The Saint wrote:Anyone notice how he only repeats what LD and Steff have said? Strange. And no wonder it's only them two that agree with him.

For some reason you are now attacking everything I say, I'll have no option but to keep reporting you from here on in...

Just stick to the rugby, theres no reason to go for me. Jees mun get a grip!

With regards to Morgan, Amos and Dixon, the Dragons can only take players so far, young players learn and develop when playing with superior players, under talented coaches, and with state of the art facilities, they NEED to play at the highest level, and compete against the very best.

If I'm wrong then why do players who show quality leave for bigger clubs constantly, and it isn't just the recent trend of Waes internationals leaving Wales, even before that players opted for Welsh clubs and regions who were bigger and better.

I have nothing against the Dragons, what they do they do well, and thats make the most of what they have to play with, but they will never progress as a club until they are allowed to, they won't be the club that produces international after international because they don't have the infrastructure to do so, when they do develop good players those players are then attracted elsewhere.

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

What like Lydiate and Faletau have been held back you mean.

Fanster wrote:

The Saint wrote:Anyone notice how he only repeats what LD and Steff have said? Strange. And no wonder it's only them two that agree with him.

For some reason you are now attacking everything I say, I'll have no option but to keep reporting you from here on in...

You could always just use the foe button.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

What like Lydiate and Faletau have been held back you mean.

Oooh I can predict the answer to that "Lydiate has left the Dragons because they were holding him back, and Faletau is looking to do the same thing. So yes the Dragons have held them back" (this is not my view point, but just the expected reply to your post).

One which I will treat with the contempt it deserves SS.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

What like Lydiate and Faletau have been held back you mean.

Both were developed as fully fledged internationals at the Dragons, which is great that the Dragons can do it, however Lydiate has hardly decided to return there despite wanting back to Wales, what does that say? And Falatau will probably sadly leave due to money, and to develop as a player.

Come on, I never said they weren't capable of turning out a good player every now and then, but on the whole they struggle to turn out top players on a regular basis, and now the squad has been reduced to local lads only nearly they will find it harder.

Lydiate and Falatau had some decent players to learn from in Charvis, Owen, and Bearman (Off the top of my head), not only did they have to fight for these places they learnt from older heads along the way.

Who is the back 3 guru to teach Amos, Dixon and Morgan? Will Aled Brew be that? has Lee Byrne stuck around? Or is Ashley Smith the new skills coach?

Truth is these guys would be better off up the road in Cardiff, at least scrapping with Cuthbert, Allan, and Patchel for team places.

Fanster wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

What like Lydiate and Faletau have been held back you mean.

Both were developed as fully fledged internationals at the Dragons, which is great that the Dragons can do it, however Lydiate has hardly decided to return there despite wanting back to Wales, what does that say? And Falatau will probably sadly leave due to money, and to develop as a player.

Come on, I never said they weren't capable of turning out a good player every now and then, but on the whole they struggle to turn out top players on a regular basis, and now the squad has been reduced to local lads only nearly they will find it harder.

Lydiate and Falatau had some decent players to learn from in Charvis, Owen, and Bearman (Off the top of my head), not only did they have to fight for these places they learnt from older heads along the way.

Who is the back 3 guru to teach Amos, Dixon and Morgan? Will Aled Brew be that? has Lee Byrne stuck around? Or is Ashley Smith the new skills coach?

Truth is these guys would be better off up the road in Cardiff, at least scrapping with Cuthbert, Allan, and Patchel for team places.

That last bit did sound funny in my head, but the thought of 3 prospects heading to Cardiff to be coached there made me giggle too much, after the pap the Blues gave us last season, Cardiff and coaching quality shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath...

On the plus side bug Phil Davies will be at the RWC won't he, fair play to him for ever getting a coaching gig again, hopefully his fans won't boo and berate him on their way out of the stdium 20 minutes early...

Fanster wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

What like Lydiate and Faletau have been held back you mean.

Both were developed as fully fledged internationals at the Dragons, which is great that the Dragons can do it, however Lydiate has hardly decided to return there despite wanting back to Wales, what does that say? And Falatau will probably sadly leave due to money, and to develop as a player.

Just call me mystic meg!!!!

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Fanster wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

What like Lydiate and Faletau have been held back you mean.

Both were developed as fully fledged internationals at the Dragons, which is great that the Dragons can do it, however Lydiate has hardly decided to return there despite wanting back to Wales, what does that say? And Falatau will probably sadly leave due to money, and to develop as a player.

Just call me mystic meg!!!!

Because you could respond to a silly comment with a sensible answer? Hardly rocket science is it, if you were brave enough you'd have have had the cahonas to just comment it in the first place, instead of attributing your thoughts to me...

SS,

What's the lottery numbers for tonight

No Fanster, because I predicted your response before you posted it

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

What like Lydiate and Faletau have been held back you mean.

Oooh I can predict the answer to that "Lydiate has left the Dragons because they were holding him back, and Faletau is looking to do the same thing. So yes the Dragons have held them back" (this is not my view point, but just the expected reply to your post).

ScarletSpiderman wrote:No Fanster, because I predicted your response before you posted it

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Fanster wrote:Morgan, Dixon and Amos will all more than likely be held back by the Dragons, not playing top euro rugby and not playing with any players of any real quality.

Which is sad, as they are all potentially international standard, they just need to move to bigger clubs who can bring that talent through.

What like Lydiate and Faletau have been held back you mean.

Oooh I can predict the answer to that "Lydiate has left the Dragons because they were holding him back, and Faletau is looking to do the same thing.  So yes the Dragons have held them back" (this is not my view point, but just the expected reply to your post).

Stay in the pack buddy, it's warm and you won't have to explain yourself...

So, out of the Dragons academy recently you have had Amos, Morgan, Leach, Dixon, Dee, Griffiths to name a couple.

Out of the Blues Academy recently you have had.... ?

Yet they have bought in Adam Jones, Matthew Rees, Anscombe.

Who's doing better at 'producing internationals' with limited resources ?

Lydiate hasn't exactly pulled up trees in France. If Faletau moves to Bath he'll be playing with some cracking back rowers though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lydiate hasn't exactly pulled up trees in France. If Faletau moves to Bath he'll be playing with some cracking back rowers though.

Though hes done well at the Ospreys

The move for Lydiate (like Jenkins) just didn't work but he had established himself before his move when he was a Dragon.

Have always been a huge fan of his and would still think that Lydiate Faletau Warburton s our best backrow combo as they compliment each other really well.

All that said Lydiate has added more carrying to his game since he has been at the Os and that is one area he did need to improve in.

Fanster wrote:For some reason you are now attacking everything I say, I'll have no option but to keep reporting you from here on in...

Just stick to the rugby, theres no reason to go for me. Jees mun get a grip!

Oh dear Fanster you must be really touchy to feel personally attacked there . We all talk about rugby but 'your points' which you try and pass off as your opinion are just comments repeating posters opinions on here, they're mostly void, and certainly bereft of common sense. Maybe you're finally getting the idea that nobody cares for 'your viewpoint' - a viewpoint in which I've already pointed out you get your ideas from. Give it a rest as you're making us yawn to death.