Welsh World Cup Squad

First topic message reminder :

Dragons not playing until tomorrow and quiet on here so just wondered what early thoughts are on the Welsh WC squad.  I think a lot of it will pick itself unless injury or shock retirements dictate.  I have gone with a 30 man squad 16/14 forwards/back split same as last world cup so here's my thought.

Here's the 47 man Training Squad, Players in bold are the ones I think are already inked in:

Props (5) JENKINS,JAMES,LEE, Evans, Francis, Jarvis, Andrews
Hookers (3) BALDWIN,OWENS, Dacey
2 Row (3) AWJ, CHARTERIS, Ball, Davies, Day
Backrow (5) FALETAU, WARBURTON, LYDIATE, TIPURIC,Moriarty, King

No9s (3) WEBB, Davies, Ll Williams
No10s (3) BIGGAR, PRIESTLAND, Anscombe, Morgan
Centres (3) ROBERTS, Sc WILLIAMS, Morgan, Allen
Back 3 (5) NORTH, HALFPENNY, Li WILLIAMS, Cuthbert, Walker, Amos, James (Then 2 from Cuthbert, Amos, Walker) For me Cuthbert and Amos

As I said the ones in Bold are the ones I feel are already pencilled in to go. Updated squad as we stand now

Hook was awful against France and Australia. Worst games I've seen from a fly-half, probably worse than any of Priestland's poor performances. That said, it was senior players like R.Jones, S.Jones, as well as Hook bottling it that cost us that game against France.

Hook wouldn't be the primary kicker this time around unless both Halfpenny and Biggar got injured.

Does Priestland even kick?

He was main kicker for Scarlets and has done for Wales but been a long time since he's had to.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Hook wouldn't be the primary kicker this time around unless both Halfpenny and Biggar got injured.

I'm not just talking about his place kicking though. He was just well out of his depth and that nailed his coffin in international rugby for me.

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Hook wouldn't be the primary kicker this time around unless both Halfpenny and Biggar got injured.

I'm not just talking about his place kicking though. He was just well out of his depth and that nailed his coffin in international rugby for me.

Saint,

I am not totally dis-agreeing with you and I am not his biggest fan but given that I think Gatland will take Biggar and Priestland and with JD now out when I look at the other option then I would bite bullet and take Hook.

Anscombe just has proved to me what all the fuss is about and Morgan can be as flaky as Hook and playing in the Championship isn't a high enough standard.

Though I have horrible feeling he will plump for Anscombe

Speaking of Gareth Anscombe:


http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/13219078.Howley_backs__high_risk__high_reward__Anscombe_to_grasp_his_Wales_chance/

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Speaking of Gareth Anscombe:


http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/rugby/latest/13219078.Howley_backs__high_risk__high_reward__Anscombe_to_grasp_his_Wales_chance/

I rest my case but I can't see what all the fuss is about and like said whilst not a Hook fan going into WC he would be my 3rd choice/Utility pick.

Players who take risks are worthy of selection in my opinion. Risks of turnovers and isolation are greater but the gains are higher.

Shane Williams is a great example.

Garland and the coaches seemed to have made a big difference to the way he felt with the physicality of the situations he got in to well.

Hopefully they can do the same with players mentioned above

Williams proved what he could do Anscombe hasn't.

Had a chat with Andrews this morning as he was prepping for a round of 18, and he never expected to make the squad apparently, he says he isn't fully fit and hasn't been for a while. I got the feeling he has given up the idea of international rugby tbh.

Shame, I like his style of play, he just seemed to be missing a destructive element in the scrum.

If they wanted high risk, high reward rugby then they would be looking at first choice XV of

Li Williams, Amos, Morgan, Sc Williams, Walker, Priestland, Rh Williams;
R Evans, Dacey, Rh Jones, AW Jones, Charteris, Ja Davies, Tipuric, Navidi.

Seeing as a few of those have not even made the squad I think it is fair to say they are not really looking that kinda game.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:If they wanted high risk, high reward rugby then they would be looking at first choice XV of

Li Williams, Amos, Morgan, Sc Williams, Walker, Priestland, Rh Williams;
R Evans, Dacey, Rh Jones, AW Jones, Charteris, Ja Davies, Tipuric, Navidi.

Seeing as a few of those have not even made the squad I think it is fair to say they are not really looking that kinda game.

Least not with that team I hope

So what do you lot think the team should be for the first warm up?

Do you think we need to try and limit key players like Alyn Wyn, Gethin Jenkins, Jamie Roberts, Dan Biggar, Toby Falateu, Leigh Halfpenny (what I think is the 6 most important players in our team) to just one of the three warm ups and if so which one.

I wouldn't want them starting more then one personally (Start them away to Ireland 15th August) and then they can make another appearance of the bench e.g Italy?

Do you think they will need the game time or need to limit game time to avoid injuries?

I think Gatland has to put what he sees has is first team out against Ireland in one of those games, preferably the home one for me then mix it up in the next two.

Ireland at home

Jenkins Baldwin Francis (give Lee bit more time)
AWJ Charteris
Lydiate Faletau Warburton

Webb Biggar
Li Williams
Roberts
Sc Williams
Amos (give North bit more time)

Halfpenny

I think the Irish games are very risky just by being named, what if Wales play what they consider their first team at home v Ireland and get beat, then get beaten again?

I think for these 3 games combinations are the order of the day, allow for the potential 1st XV to play in 100 minutes or so split between the first 2, and then cameos last up.

First game at home v Ireland I would start:

Jenkins Hibbard Lee
Charteris Davies
Warburton Falatau Tipuric
Davies Preistland
Roberts Williams
James williams Cuthbert

We play Uruguay first then England 6 days later, on the basis we are all well aware that Wales improve with the more games they play, i think he has to go with his top team from before day 1 v Ireland and not mix and match too much at all unless injury demands it. Those 'warm ups' are warm ups in name only; we have to be humming by the time we get to Twickenham. There are only 5 days between the England and Fiji game so i think if anything he will have to make some changes for that game but not a great deal as we know those fellas can cause serious damage. Then there is a 9 day rest period before Aus.

He has to give his first team at least one hit out during these games.

bedfordwelsh wrote:He has to give his first team at least one hit out during these games.

BW, the games against Ireland are before the squad is reduced from 47 to 31, if he has any positions that are not clear cut he has to use those games to sort those out, I would have close to the 1st team only for the Italy game, when he will only have 31 in camp

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:He has to give his first team at least one hit out during these games.

BW, the games against Ireland are before the squad is reduced from 47 to 31, if he has any positions that are not clear cut he has to use those games to sort those out, I would have close to the 1st team only for the Italy game, when he will only have 31 in camp

But Wayne, we are renowned slow starters, if we have our first team v Italy - no disrespect but not the challenge we need- and then we play Uruguay then we are likely to come unstuck by the time we face England. We need to start off with our 1st team in Dublin when the pressure is on.

wayne wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:He has to give his first team at least one hit out during these games.

BW, the games against Ireland are before the squad is reduced from 47 to 31, if he has any positions that are not clear cut he has to use those games to sort those out, I would have close to the 1st team only for the Italy game, when he will only have 31 in camp

I know and agree but for me he has to know his side (think he already knows his starting XV) by the Italy game as you so that would seem the ideal game just pity Ireland isn't last game as I would put strongest out against them.

With injury to JD and Lee still not fully fit I think those are the only 2 positions he doesn't know for his starting XV.

There may be a few either or positions but overall he knows his strongest side.

I would risk James at TH and i think its clear SW will slot into JDs spot.

Jenkins, Baldwin, James
AWJ, Charters
Lydiate, Sam, Faletau
Webb, Biggar
North, DOc, Scott, Half
Liam

bench
Hibbard, ?, Rhodri
Ball but BD close
Tipuric
Mike P
Morgan
Hook

If Lees not fit then I would just throw Francis in at T/Head rest of pack agree with.

If that's M Morgan on bench I don't think he will go so I would put Hook and Amos on bench and James as other prop.

Other than those few little grey areas we will see a settled side for the WC.

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Lees not fit then I would just throw Francis in at T/Head rest of pack agree with.

If that's M Morgan on bench I don't think he will go so I would put Hook and Amos on bench and James as other prop.

Other than those few little grey areas we will see a settled side for the WC.

Massive call on Francis, but if he can cut it v ireland then why not…with James on the bench?

Amos? From nowhere to RWC bench seems to big a step for me but i would happily be proven wrong….perhaps v Uruguay which is when i expect to see the experimental bench to come on once the game is well won.

Not M Morgan - though i am a huge fan- thinking Tyler TBH.

bedfordwelsh wrote:With injury to JD and Lee still not fully fit I think those are the only 2 positions he doesn't know for his starting XV.

There may be a few either or positions but overall he knows his strongest side.

BW, Scott will be in for JD2, going by reports I've read Lee will be available and he will have to play the 2nd half of the 2nd Ireland game, he will have to make a decision between Jarvis, Francis and the Scarlet boy, if Lee is not fit he will have to select all 3, if Lee comes through those 3 will have to be whittled down to 2. If Allen is fit, who goes between him and Tyler, he has to make the utility player decision, I think it will be Anscombe but he has to give both Hook and Patchell a chance, if he selects 3 looseheads there has to be a contest between Smith and the other Scarlet, I think the 9 order is Webb, Davies, Phillips, Williams does Gatland think the same, I doubt it. If he has 18 forwards 9 front row, 4 second row and 5 back row, who goes with WRUburton, Lydiate, Faletau and Tipuric, is it Baker, King or Moriarty, unless his decision has already been made he has to give them all a chance in the 2 Irish games.
IMO if he had to select a team for this weekend it would be Halfpenny, Williams, Williams, Roberts, North, Biggar, Webb, Jenkins, Baldwin/ Owens, I'm assuming Lee is fit, AWJ, Charteris, Lydiate, WRUburton, Faletau. I would say another 10 would be quite easy to add, it is the final 6 that are going to be more difficult and he will have to use both Irish matches to sort them out.

Is the 6 days between Uruguay and England game, and 5 days between England and Fiji game true? I wonder if our players will be taking to Twitter to moan about that just like the angry Samoan did in 2011...

True?

No actually i was wrong, it is only 4 full days between England and Fiji games, Sat to Thurs.

So i expect a full 2nd string side v Uruguay and a full 1st team v Fiji; both in Cardiff. The latter is a game we cannot afford to take other than very seriously as i expect PD may figure in the group.

We have 9 days post Fiji to prep for Aus.

If it comes down to point difference though, as in Aus, Wales and England each beat one but lose to the other, then Uruguay is the team to be putting 100 points on.

The Saint wrote:If it comes down to point difference though, as in Aus, Wales and England each beat one but lose to the other, then Uruguay is the team to be putting 100 points on.

I have said all along that the main 3 will all beat each other so points diff will be crucial so with Uruguay first up we have to hit the ground running and get those points in the bag. Although we are notorious slow starters I would like to think that even with a 2nd string side we should be able to get a score against them.

I have to agree with the above, Ireland games are all about testing combinations, If I was Gatland my RWC would start the night after the Irish 2nd game, squad selected.

Italy would be my chance to play the first team, Uraguay again would be my first team, then make a decision on Fiji based on what they have produced in their first 2 games.

Points difference might just be a major factor, England and Wales could beat each other, I'd say Australia have the edge on Wales, but England the edge on Australia so who knows.

60 mins of first team v Uraguay, then 20 mins to empty the bench and rack up the scores.

Tickets are up online. I think we are off to Dublin for a chance to see the Abigail and hopefully watch a good result for Wales.

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Lees not fit then I would just throw Francis in at T/Head rest of pack agree with.

If that's M Morgan on bench I don't think he will go so I would put Hook and Amos on bench and James as other prop.

Other than those few little grey areas we will see a settled side for the WC.

Massive call on Francis, but if he can cut it v ireland then why not…with James on the bench?

Amos? From nowhere to RWC bench seems to big a step for me but i would happily be proven wrong….perhaps v Uruguay which is when i expect to see the experimental bench to come on once the game is well won.

Not M Morgan - though i am a huge fan- thinking Tyler TBH.

Amos has already been capped (albeit not against one of the top sides) and Howley especially is a big fan. He's been on their radar for a while.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

wales606 wrote:Backs: Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), James Hook (Gloucester Rugby), Matthew Morgan (Bristol Rugby), Rhys Patchell (Cardiff Blues), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jack Dixon (Newport Gwent Dragons), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon), Tom James (Exeter Chiefs), George North (Northampton Saints), Eli Walker (Ospreys), Liam Williams (Scarlets).
Forwards: Rob Evans (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Paul James (Bath Rugby), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Richard Hibbard (Gloucester Rugby), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Dominic Day (Bath Rugby), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Rory Thornton (Ospreys), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (CAPT - Cardiff Blues).

The 21 I have highlighted are the ones I think are already in the World Cup squad so there 10 places to fight for

Do you really think they may not take Jake Ball?

I think they will but the ones I listed I feel are 110% already pencilled in.  Depends how many 2nd rows they take 3 and a utility type or 4 specialists.

Rory Thornton has a hell of a lot of promise. The squad time will do him a lot of good. May surprise the coaches

Doubt it.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Lees not fit then I would just throw Francis in at T/Head rest of pack agree with.

If that's M Morgan on bench I don't think he will go so I would put Hook and Amos on bench and James as other prop.

Other than those few little grey areas we will see a settled side for the WC.

Massive call on Francis, but if he can cut it v ireland then why not…with James on the bench?

Amos? From nowhere to RWC bench seems to big a step for me but i would happily be proven wrong….perhaps v Uruguay which is when i expect to see the experimental bench to come on once the game is well won.

Not M Morgan - though i am a huge fan- thinking Tyler TBH.

Amos has already been capped (albeit not against one of the top sides) and Howley especially is a big fan. He's been on their radar for a while.

Tonga 2013 1 cap….like i said, from nowhere to RWC bench too big a step for me. With the likes of hook and Anscombe offering utility cover at 15 this frees Sanjay and half to cover the wings.

For me the back 3 options will be

Half
Sanjay
North
Anscombe
Hook

and likely, Cuthbert

Gwlad wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Lees not fit then I would just throw Francis in at T/Head rest of pack agree with.

If that's M Morgan on bench I don't think he will go so I would put Hook and Amos on bench and James as other prop.

Other than those few little grey areas we will see a settled side for the WC.

Massive call on Francis, but if he can cut it v ireland then why not…with James on the bench?

Amos? From nowhere to RWC bench seems to big a step for me but i would happily be proven wrong….perhaps v Uruguay which is when i expect to see the experimental bench to come on once the game is well won.

Not M Morgan - though i am a huge fan- thinking Tyler TBH.

Amos has already been capped (albeit not against one of the top sides) and Howley especially is a big fan. He's been on their radar for a while.

Tonga 2013 1 cap….like i said, from nowhere to RWC bench too big a step for me. With the likes of hook and Anscombe offering utility cover at 15 this frees Sanjay and half to cover the wings.

For me the back 3 options will be

Half
Sanjay
North
Anscombe
Hook

and likely, Cuthbert

I'd say it will be a tough call between Cuthbert and Amos

Can't see them taking both Anscombe and Hook, the former has done nothing yet to warrant a place in the squad and the latter has proved countless times he does not have the head for test rugby. Personally I would take Patchell, very raw but massively talented.

Gwlad wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Lees not fit then I would just throw Francis in at T/Head rest of pack agree with.

If that's M Morgan on bench I don't think he will go so I would put Hook and Amos on bench and James as other prop.

Other than those few little grey areas we will see a settled side for the WC.

Massive call on Francis, but if he can cut it v ireland then why not…with James on the bench?

Amos? From nowhere to RWC bench seems to big a step for me but i would happily be proven wrong….perhaps v Uruguay which is when i expect to see the experimental bench to come on once the game is well won.

Not M Morgan - though i am a huge fan- thinking Tyler TBH.

Amos has already been capped (albeit not against one of the top sides) and Howley especially is a big fan. He's been on their radar for a while.

Tonga 2013 1 cap….like i said, from nowhere to RWC bench too big a step for me. With the likes of hook and Anscombe offering utility cover at 15 this frees Sanjay and half to cover the wings.

For me the back 3 options will be

Half
Sanjay
North
Anscombe
Hook

and likely, Cuthbert

I hope (but will be disappointed) that Anscombe doesn't even make the squad I haven't seen anything of what all the fuss was about.

I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If Lees not fit then I would just throw Francis in at T/Head rest of pack agree with.

If that's M Morgan on bench I don't think he will go so I would put Hook and Amos on bench and James as other prop.

Other than those few little grey areas we will see a settled side for the WC.

Massive call on Francis, but if he can cut it v ireland then why not…with James on the bench?

Amos? From nowhere to RWC bench seems to big a step for me but i would happily be proven wrong….perhaps v Uruguay which is when i expect to see the experimental bench to come on once the game is well won.

Not M Morgan - though i am a huge fan- thinking Tyler TBH.

Amos has already been capped (albeit not against one of the top sides) and Howley especially is a big fan. He's been on their radar for a while.

Tonga 2013 1 cap….like i said, from nowhere to RWC bench too big a step for me. With the likes of hook and Anscombe offering utility cover at 15 this frees Sanjay and half to cover the wings.

For me the back 3 options will be

Half
Sanjay
North
Anscombe
Hook

and likely, Cuthbert

I hope (but will be disappointed) that Anscombe doesn't even make the squad I haven't seen anything of what all the fuss was about.

You may be right but rather like priestland he is one of Gats chosen men and has a DC; QED they will have to take the punt.

Look how long he persisted with Priestland before realizing he was cooked? Fact is Anscombe has done pretty well in a poor side. Now is his chance to show what he is capable of in the Welsh set up.

Unless they take Hook as a centre I can't see them taking both him and Anscombe and whilst not a huge Hook fan I would currently take him over Anscombe and Patchell.

I doubt we will ever be privvy to the selection process but I wonder how much these DCs will have to play when it comes to close decisions.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

Yes I think he might do that.. As I said earlier I think he has the talent. Just needs that opertunity.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

Yes I think he might do that.. As I said earlier I think he has the talent. Just needs that opertunity.

Well if he performs well enough to dis lodge AWJ, Charteris, Ball or Davies fair play to the lad.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

Yes I think he might do that.. As I said earlier I think he has the talent. Just needs that opertunity.

Well if he performs well enough to dis lodge AWJ, Charteris, Ball or Davies fair play to the lad.

Beds if he dislodged all of them we would only have one lock.

I ink he has the ability and athleticism to put himself forward ahead of either Davies or Ball. Charteris and AWJ are our best combination.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

Yes I think he might do that.. As I said earlier I think he has the talent. Just needs that opertunity.

Well if he performs well enough to dis lodge AWJ, Charteris, Ball or Davies fair play to the lad.

Beds if he dislodged all of them we would only have one lock.

I ink he has the ability and athleticism to put himself forward ahead of either Davies or Ball. Charteris and AWJ are our best combination.

Cannot see that happening before a world cup. It would be insane for Gatland not to select his 4 internationally experience locks

Who is this Thornton?

Realistically every player selected for the extended squad is there to prove he is worthy of a RWC slot, Gatland has the ability and balls to choose untested characters, maybe Davies international career is over? Maybe his charater isn't right for the culture Gatland is nurturing?

That said wasn't Wales 2011 world cup squad packed with experience?

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I would be hugely surprised if Thornton made the squad, they will take 4 locks at most which are already well established and proven International players.

So for him to dis lodge any of them 4 then it would take some kind of super human performances in the warm up games and training camps.

Yes I think he might do that.. As I said earlier I think he has the talent. Just needs that opertunity.

Well if he performs well enough to dis lodge AWJ, Charteris, Ball OR Davies fair play to the lad.

Beds if he dislodged all of them we would only have one lock.

I ink he has the ability and athleticism to put himself forward ahead of either Davies or Ball. Charteris and AWJ are our best combination.

Maes,

Notice the OR