Judgement Day III-bigger crowd than European Champions Cup final- Thread

[LordDowlais]

First topic message reminder :

Oh well, nobody has started a thread on this yet so I might as well do one, is anybody going ? At £10 per person for two games it's a bargain, over 35,000 tickets sold so far,so I have been told, not bad, I will be there.

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/32450.php#.VTS-adJVhHw

Anyway back to the games, everyone has had a weeks rest, except Dragons, I wonder if this will affect them, wins for the two West Wales sides on Saturday, soory to Blues and Dragons fans, I expect to see all the Welsh internationals that are not injured playing as well, I cannot wait. Wales boss Warren Gatland has said that this weekends matches will go a long way to him deciding his WC squad.

The Kiwi coach has identified the Millennium Stadium regional double-header later this month as a perfect opportunity for players to force the way into his plans.

Cardiff Blues take on the play-off chasing Ospreys in the first game of the day on Saturday, April 25, with the Dragons then facing Champions Cup hopefuls the Scarlets.

There will be a host of Wales contenders on duty and Gatland says watching them pit their wits against each other will inform his decision-making when it comes to picking his initial World Cup group.

On June 7, he names a 45-strong training squad, which will embark on a series of camps before playing warm-up fixtures against Ireland and Italy, with the group to be whittled down to a final 31 for this autumn’s global tournament.

So he says the selectors’ eyes will be firmly on Judgement Day III, which is on course for a record attendance, with more than 32,000 tickets having already been sold.

“We have been planning in earnest for this World Cup for some time now, but there are some things you can not plan for,” said Gatland.

“The clubs are approaching the business end of the season and when we name our preliminary RWC squad in June, form is going to be a major factor in our decision-making process.

“All of the national squad coaches will be watching even more closely on Judgement Day this year.

“There is nothing like a derby match to put players under pressure to perform and with the added extra factor of being played out at the Millennium Stadium it should be a revealing day from a coach’s point of view.

“We have a good idea of what our best team is at the moment and we have been really happy with the players in the Six Nations and particularly with the performance against Italy in that final weekend when they did everything that was asked of them.

“But there are always players that time it right and come into consideration at World Cup time when form becomes an incredibly important factor.

“You only have to look at the Sam Warburton who was named captain ahead of the 2011 Rugby World Cup after Matthew Rees missed out through injury and the partnership formed with Dan Lydiate and Toby Faletau in the back row, to see that.

“The door is open for someone to not only play themselves into the squad, but even into the starting line-up and all eyes will be on Judgement Day in April to see if someone can put their hands up.”

This will be the third year for the Pro12 Welsh derby double-header, which drew crowds of 36,174 and 30,411 in 2013 and 2014 respectively.

“Judgment Day is a great concept and a hugely popular event with the fans, but in a World Cup year it is just the kind of event which the coaches need to help inform the decision making process,” said Gatland.

Tickets are available for £10 from www.wru.wales/tickets, the WRU ticket office on Westgate Street, each of the four clubs, at local Tesco stores or by calling ticketmaster on 0844 847 1881.


http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/judgement-day-iii-wales-boss-9004568

[The Saint]

Luckless, pretty much agree with that. I'm all for JD if it helps grow the game and maybe increases profits and attendance. But when it's only us losing home games, coupled with all these Sunday games then it becomes a problem.

[LordDowlais]

I haven't 'rubbished' Judgement Day. I think it's great how many tickets have been sold. But I'd like it a lot more if next season, maybe the two West Wales sides lost a home game to accommodate it.

Speaking of rubbishing things, you seem happy enough to rubbish the Dragons:

If you are using HOME ADVANTAGE as a point for your argument then perhaps you should win more games at home first, its not as if RP is a fortress, also I doubt it very much that Dragons will be the bottom place Welsh region this year, for the first time in about a decade you will rise to the giddy heights of third worst region.

Thanks. Nice touch.

Sorry Luckless I apologise, I was just rubbed up the wrong way by a few Dragons fans on here saying they are not going to bother because it was not at RP. You are right, perhaps they should rotate the fixtures so that each team loses out on a home game, but I do not think the fixtures are down to the WRU, I think they are decided by the league. So we cannot blame the WRU for this.

[bedfordwelsh]

Its wrong that the same two clubs have to have it classed as their home game, it should be rotated but I have always been in favour of the double header

[Chunky Norwich]

That's the reason I can't be a hypocrite and tell Luckless Pedestrian to just suck it up.

I would never, ever attend a Scarlets home game at the Millennium Stadium.

[LordDowlais]

I would never, ever attend a Scarlets home game at the Millennium Stadium.

Why not though ? If it gets more fans involved then it's win win, people who shout at others for not making an effort with regionalism and the what not, should not moan about having a home game in the MS for a double header.

This is not aimed at you Chunky, but all the die hard fans with that attitude.

[SecretFly]

Two Neutral One-Off, Once per Season Double Header Promotional Games???

What's with the problem between 'home' and 'away' in the title?

[Chunky Norwich]

I would never, ever attend a Scarlets home game at the Millennium Stadium.

Why not though ? If it gets more fans involved then it's win win, people who shout at others for not making an effort with regionalism and the what not, should not moan about having a home game in the MS for a double header.

This is not aimed at you Chunky, but all the die hard fans with that attitude.

Because my team is based in West Wales. I pay a high price for damn good seats in a stadium close to my folks' home and I make a day of it and go and visit my family in a nice part of the world.

I'll be damned if I am going to be told that one of my home games is to be moved an hour and half away to a different region where the two away sides that day only have to travel a few miles while our fans have to travel over 50 miles.

It's up to the region and Union to encourage the growth of the game. Not the customers already spending their hard earned. They shouldn't be put out.

Currently it's only Dragons and Blues home games because they are both based within 10 minutes from the stadium.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Not quite ten minutes away for the Dragons...

[LordDowlais]

Currently it's only Dragons and Blues home games because they are both based within 10 minutes from the stadium.

Try telling that to the Dragons fans on here.

[Chunky Norwich]

Currently it's only Dragons and Blues home games because they are both based within 10 minutes from the stadium.

Try telling that to the Dragons fans on here.

eh?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Two Neutral One-Off, Once per Season Double Header Promotional Games???

What's with the problem between 'home' and 'away' in the title?

Fly, if this double-header was in addition to our home games, there'd be no problem; but this is one of our home games.

[LordDowlais]

Anyway, back to the rugby on the day, these are the refs for the first game, Cardiff Blues V Ospreys

At Millennium Stadium, 2.30pm Live on BBC WALES
Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU, 123rd competition game)
Assistant Referees: Rhys Thomas, Gwyn Morris (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: Dennis Jones (WRU)
TMO: Gareth Simmonds (WRU)
Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/17140.php#iMYf9zUKG6hVrFuZ.99

And hears the refs for the second game Dragons V Scarlets

At Millennium Stadium, 4.45pm Live on S4C
Referee: George Clancy (IRFU, 70th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Neil Hennessy, Sean Brickell (both WRU)
Citing Commissioner: Russell Howell (WRU)
TMO: Tim Hayes (WRU)
Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/matchcentre/17142.php#mkkIBBqdpiy6sbSC.99

[Chunky Norwich]

Eugh. Clancy. Good grief.

[The Saint]

How does the double header for 'London' teams work... I know that Quins are across the street so it's technically a home game right? but do they have some sort of agreement that each team will have to give up a home game if the opposition did the previous year?

[bedfordwelsh]

How does the double header for 'London' teams work... I know that Quins are across the street so it's technically a home game right? but do they have some sort of agreement that each team will have to give up a home game if the opposition did the previous year?

Saint,

I was wondering that myself, I have been to quite a few over the years and its a great day out with a great atmosphere one I do think our own double header will eventually reach but as to who 'loses' a home game I am not sure but I am pretty sure whoever is classed as the 'home' team gets a bigger slice of any revenue to compensate for what they may lose at their own ground.

[LordDowlais]

the 'home' team gets a bigger slice of any revenue to compensate for what they may lose at their own ground.

And this is happening on Saturday as well, if what I hear is correct, Dragons will make more money on Saturday, than they would for a sell out RP.

[bedfordwelsh]

Again, while we all vent our frustrations on here the Dragons and Blues must have agreed that they would be the home team all the time and if it meant more revenue then that is a big incentive for them to agree to it.

[LordDowlais]

Again, while we all vent our frustrations on here the Dragons and Blues must have agreed that they would be the home team all the time and if it meant more revenue then that is a big incentive for them to agree to it.

Yes, thankfully, somebody who is thinking along the same lines as me, why are the die hard fans so quick to stick two fingers up to the double header when it is win win for their region ?

[SecretFly]

It gets close to making things appear viable.....

[LordDowlais]

Lyn Jones seems to be a fan of it:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/rugby-union/32407065

[bedfordwelsh]

It gets close to making things appear viable.....

If it continues to grow then it will be, it's the highest attendances so far this year and the London one gets 80,000+ so if we can get up to our limit then yes it will be viable.

Problem being you will never actually see a full stadium for this one or the London one as, surprisingly to me a hell of a large % of fans only stay for their game.

[Guest]

I'm a fan of it too. I shall be there on saturday. But I'm also a fan of equality and fairness. Not because I'm some sort of socialist. It's just neater in some way. I like even things like the numbers 2 and 4! So for me it's fairer, neater, more equitable if the home advantage bit was shared out every other year. Otherwise it's a bit lopsided. I don't like lopsided. And in a league where points count (as they always do), and the research evidence supports home advantage being a real thing (even more so in rugby that other sports), then I think it would be better to take turns on losing home advantage each year. I don't feel strong enough about it not to attend though. But that's just a personal thing.

[SecretFly]

It gets close to making things appear viable.....

If it continues to grow then it will be, it's the highest attendances so far this year and the London one gets 80,000+ so if we can get up to our limit then yes it will be viable.

Problem being you will never actually see a full stadium for this one or the London one as, surprisingly to me a hell of a large % of fans only stay for their game.

Oh I think it's great. A bit like that final day of Six Nations. An event.
No, I'm all for the idea. But I'm saying some people who need the Pro12 show to always look shoddy and uncared for would maybe feel such a day doesn't look too good for their arguments.

[bedfordwelsh]

I am with you Griff and unfortunately this will be the first one I haven't attended. I have always thought it a good idea and think it will go from strength to strength but as we have both mentioned it should be rotated.

Maybe the Ospreys and Scarlets didn't agree to 'losing' a home game do we actually know the ins and outs of it?

[Chunky Norwich]

I'm a fan of it too.  I shall be there on saturday.  But I'm also a fan of equality and fairness.  Not because I'm some sort of socialist.  It's just neater in some way.  I like even things like the numbers 2 and 4!  So for me it's fairer, neater, more equitable if the home advantage bit was shared out every other year.  Otherwise it's a bit lopsided.  I don't like lopsided.  And in a league where points count (as they always do), and the research evidence supports home advantage being a real thing (even more so in rugby that other sports), then I think it would be better to take turns on losing home advantage each year.  I don't feel strong enough about it not to attend though.  But that's just a personal thing.

It would be extremely lopsided if the two Western sides have to play home games on the other side of the country.

[Guest]

I'm a fan of it too.  I shall be there on saturday.  But I'm also a fan of equality and fairness.  Not because I'm some sort of socialist.  It's just neater in some way.  I like even things like the numbers 2 and 4!  So for me it's fairer, neater, more equitable if the home advantage bit was shared out every other year.  Otherwise it's a bit lopsided.  I don't like lopsided.  And in a league where points count (as they always do), and the research evidence supports home advantage being a real thing (even more so in rugby that other sports), then I think it would be better to take turns on losing home advantage each year.  I don't feel strong enough about it not to attend though.  But that's just a personal thing.

It would be extremely lopsided if the two Western sides have to play home games on the other side of the country.

West?! Aberwystwth is West. I've never understood this west wales Scarlets thing!

Back to the point: A one game a season event, with every other season being your team's home game (and therefore right to a big slice of the revenue), is not too much to ask for the greater good IMO.

[LordDowlais]

Boys, I do not think the WRU chooses the fixtures, I think it's the league that sets the fixtures out, and the WRU use the derbies at this time of the year for the double header, so in affect the WRU are making something out of the fixtures they have been given.

[Chunky Norwich]

Back to the point: A one game a season event, with every other season being your team's home game (and therefore right to a big slice of the revenue), is not too much to ask for the greater good IMO.

I'm just telling you my opinion as one of the fans of the teams you're talking about. I would guess there would be a large boycott of Ospreys and Scarlets fans of the double header if they had to play home games in the city of another region.

Infact I know Scarlets fans who currently boycott it, and it's not even our home game!

[Guest]

Back to the point: A one game a season event, with every other season being your team's home game (and therefore right to a big slice of the revenue), is not too much to ask for the greater good IMO.

I'm just telling you my opinion as one of the fans of the teams you're talking about. I would guess there would be a large boycott of Ospreys and Scarlets fans of the double header if they had to play home games in the city of another region.

Infact I know Scarlets fans who currently boycott it, and it's not even our home game!

Some will boycott it.  Some who don't currently go to PYS may end up going to the MS for JD3 (particularly if they live in the capital now).  Swings and roundabouts I s'pose.  You win some, lose some.  It's like the whole regional thing in the first place - we lost some Newport fans but gained some wider regional fans.  The same will probably happen on Saturday (for the game, not the long term I hope )

I don't know for certain but I'm willing to guess that loads of Dragons fans will not attend because they're not willing to do anything that requires a modicum of effort over and above what it usually takes to drag their lethargic ars*s from their house to Rodney Parade, 5 minutes walk down the road.  The Dragons board will know this too.  That's the way it is and that's what they signed up to.  But I'm willing to risk it (attending, and the whole concept in general) to try to get more interest and to see if we can grown the regions somehow.  And I guess the regions were willing to risk it too.

[Chunky Norwich]

Back to the point: A one game a season event, with every other season being your team's home game (and therefore right to a big slice of the revenue), is not too much to ask for the greater good IMO.

I'm just telling you my opinion as one of the fans of the teams you're talking about. I would guess there would be a large boycott of Ospreys and Scarlets fans of the double header if they had to play home games in the city of another region.

Infact I know Scarlets fans who currently boycott it, and it's not even our home game!

Some will boycott it.  Some who don't go to PYS may end up going to the MS for JD3 (particularly if they live in the capital now).  Swings and roundabouts I s'pose.  You win some, lose some.  It's like the whole regional thing in the first place - we lost some Newport fans but gained some wider regional fans.  The same will probably happen on Saturday (for the game, not the long term I hope )

I don't know for certain but I'm willing to guess that loads of Dragons fans will not attend because they're not willing to do anything that requires a modicum of effort over and above what it usually takes to drag their lethargic ars*s from their house to Rodney Parade, 5 minutes walk down the road.  The Dragons board will know this too.  That's the way it is and that's what they signed up to.  But I'm willing to risk it (attending, and the whole concept in general) to try to get more interest and to see if we can grown the regions somehow.  And I guess the regions were willing to risk it too.

You win some you lose some - in this case I just think you'd lose more than you win. It just about works with the 2 East Wales regions. The other two - I highly doubt it.

[LordDowlais]

But I'm willing to risk it (attending, and the whole concept in general) to try to get more interest and to see if we can grown the regions somehow. And I guess the regions were willing to risk it too.

I could not have put that better myself, who knows, if Scarlets or Dragons throw the ball around and win, and a person in the crowd has a good day, you might see that person next week at one of the home grounds, or that person could go out and buy a jersey of the team, if only one extra fan gets on board with regionalism, then for me it will have been a success.

[Chunky Norwich]

if only one extra fan gets on board with regionalism, then for me it will have been a success.

Even if he''s the only person that turns up, and the event loses £4m?













[I'm joking]

[LordDowlais]

Anyway, back to the rugby, does anybody know when the teams will be announced ?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

But I'm willing to risk it (attending, and the whole concept in general) to try to get more interest and to see if we can grown the regions somehow. And I guess the regions were willing to risk it too.

I could not have put that better myself, who knows, if Scarlets or Dragons throw the ball around and win, and a person in the crowd has a good day, you might see that person next week at one of the home grounds, or that person could go out and buy a jersey of the team, if only one extra fan gets on board with regionalism, then for me it will have been a success.

Well they can't both win.

[Guest]

But I'm willing to risk it (attending, and the whole concept in general) to try to get more interest and to see if we can grown the regions somehow. And I guess the regions were willing to risk it too.

I could not have put that better myself, who knows, if Scarlets or Dragons throw the ball around and win, and a person in the crowd has a good day, you might see that person next week at one of the home grounds, or that person could go out and buy a jersey of the team, if only one extra fan gets on board with regionalism, then for me it will have been a success.

Well they can't both win.

Rugby is the winner in JD3, Luckless. C'mon man, get with the spirit

[GavinDragon]

Walesonline reckon 50k will attend. Great for welsh rugby

[Luckless Pedestrian]

But I'm willing to risk it (attending, and the whole concept in general) to try to get more interest and to see if we can grown the regions somehow. And I guess the regions were willing to risk it too.

I could not have put that better myself, who knows, if Scarlets or Dragons throw the ball around and win, and a person in the crowd has a good day, you might see that person next week at one of the home grounds, or that person could go out and buy a jersey of the team, if only one extra fan gets on board with regionalism, then for me it will have been a success.

Well they can't both win.

Rugby is the winner in JD3, Luckless.  C'mon man, get with the spirit

I'm all for optimism, but that takes the biscuit!

[Guest]

It's easy for you to say it's not about home advantage, you're not losing a home game. Ask the Scarlets whether they'd prefer a trip to Dave Parade or the Millennium Stadium.

People always seem to miss this point (as Dowlais shows). If it's about "showcasing our game", then it should be either an extra game (neutral), or we shouldn't be the ones who suffer losing a home game every season. That alone tells me it isn't about showcasing the game.

Dragons could potentially have made more money by playing their Challenge Cup quarter there, but didn't. What's the difference?

What point am I missing Rev ? Look, please do not take this the wrong way, but all you are losing out on is home advantage, it does not look as though you will finish any higher in the league than you are now, and aren't the WRU paying you for moving your game to the MS ? In fact, if rumours are to be believed, then you are going to make more money from this fixture than you would if you were playing it at RP. It is ONE fixture, against Scarlets, why the hard core Dragons fans would want to boycott watching their team because of this is beyond me, if it is not about show casing the game, then please tell us what is it about ?

Stop posting posts full of waffle and answer a simple question that I posed. You even had it in my post you quoted. I'm not interested in Dowlais rumours, I want a straight up answer. I'll even caps it all for you, so maybe you won't gloss over it. IF WE ARE SHOWCASING OUR GAME, WHY AREN'T WE SHARING THE LOSE A HOME GAME AROUND?

If you think I'm less of a Dragons fan, then ask yourself why I went to Edinburgh last week on 13 days notice. Why are you pretending not to have a region again, when you say you're an Ospreys supporter now?

Do me a favour now, stop your guff and answer the one simple question. I can tell you have no answer already, or maybe you already would've done.

[Guest]

I haven't 'rubbished' Judgement Day. I think it's great how many tickets have been sold. But I'd like it a lot more if next season, maybe the two West Wales sides lost a home game to accommodate it.

Speaking of rubbishing things, you seem happy enough to rubbish the Dragons:

If you are using HOME ADVANTAGE as a point for your argument then perhaps you should win more games at home first, its not as if RP is a fortress, also I doubt it very much that Dragons will be the bottom place Welsh region this year, for the first time in about a decade you will rise to the giddy heights of third worst region.

Thanks. Nice touch.

Sorry Luckless I apologise, I was just rubbed up the wrong way by a few Dragons fans on here saying they are not going to bother because it was not at RP. You are right, perhaps they should rotate the fixtures so that each team loses out on a home game, but I do not think the fixtures are down to the WRU, I think they are decided by the league. So we cannot blame the WRU for this.

Oh my word. You even quoted my post saying about us losing a home game and I even elaborated further and said if it's money, why didn't we move our quarter final v Blues. You are beyond help. So selective in your replying, it's unreal. Do me a favour dowlais and give up.

[Guest]

the 'home' team gets a bigger slice of any revenue to compensate for what they may lose at their own ground.

And this is happening on Saturday as well, if what I hear is correct, Dragons will make more money on Saturday, than they would for a sell out RP.

More rumours again. Give me a bit more substance.

[Guest]

I would never, ever attend a Scarlets home game at the Millennium Stadium.

Why not though ? If it gets more fans involved then it's win win, people who shout at others for not making an effort with regionalism and the what not, should not moan about having a home game in the MS for a double header.

This is not aimed at you Chunky, but all the die hard fans with that attitude.

Right, in simple terms for you. Who are the two favourites on the weekend? I'll give you a clue, it isn't the two who have given up a home game. So what fans are Dragons likely to attract on the back of this?

[Guest]

Again, while we all vent our frustrations on here the Dragons and Blues must have agreed that they would be the home team all the time and if it meant more revenue then that is a big incentive for them to agree to it.

Yes and it makes Hazell a huge hypocrite for not moving our home quarter then. Revenue isn't worth jack when we lose any hint of atmosphere to a more open stadium and air horns etc.

[LordDowlais]

If you think I'm less of a Dragons fan

Sorry to get in the way of a good rant and all that, but I do not think you are less of ma Dragons fan by not going, I just do not understand why you would not go, two games for a tenner, and good day out, also, if it is not about showcasing regional rugby, then it must be about money, but I THINK it is about showcasing the regional game, you disagree, fair enough, but if you disagree, then please could you tell me what you think JDIII is about ?

[LordDowlais]

Right, in simple terms for you. Who are the two favourites on the weekend? I'll give you a clue, it isn't the two who have given up a home game. So what fans are Dragons likely to attract on the back of this?

So it's a conspiracy by the WRU to hand the advantage to Ospreys and Scarlets ? Is this what you are getting at ?

[SecretFly]

I would never, ever attend a Scarlets home game at the Millennium Stadium.

Why not though ? If it gets more fans involved then it's win win, people who shout at others for not making an effort with regionalism and the what not, should not moan about having a home game in the MS for a double header.

This is not aimed at you Chunky, but all the die hard fans with that attitude.

Right, in simple terms for you. Who are the two favourites on the weekend? I'll give you a clue, it isn't the two who have given up a home game. So what fans are Dragons likely to attract on the back of this?

Fans that want them to win?

[LordDowlais]

Anyway, back to the rugby, they are letting the fans vote on the roof, open or closed, it is up to you, make your vote count :-

http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/7616.php#.VTjJBNJVhHw

[SecretFly]

Keep it open.... you never know how many days a summer lasts in these parts.  It's a crime to cut off sun when it shows.

Oh the forecast is the summer is over and rain at the weekend so close it.

[LordDowlais]

Well, more good news, apparently JDIII will have a bigger crowd than the nice new fandagled European CC final:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/judgement-day-iii-crowd-set-9096845

It's nearing 50,000 now,and there is still two days to go, and that is without walk ups.

http://www.cardiffblues.com/news/7612.php#.VTjxCtJVhHw

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I don't think you should have changed the title of the thread. There might be more people attending Judgement Day, but it's not 'bigger' than the Champions Cup final. That's the pinnacle of European club rugby. Judgement Day isn't even the pinnacle of the Pro12.

[LordDowlais]

There you go Luckless I have added another word, just for you.

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