Final polls for GE15 and round up !!

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 06 May 2015, 3:24 pm

First topic message reminder :

TNS -...............Con 33.................Lab .....32

Panelbase -.......SNP 48................Lab ......26 = wipeout !!

Opinion -..........Con 35.................Lab.......34

Yougov Wales...Lab 39..................Con 25..........Plaid 13 (Change the leader she's crap!!)

Comres .........Con 35..................Lab 30..........(Majority within the margin of error)

Yougov...........Con 34..................Lab 34...................

Ashcroft has Farage winning............

Ashcroft has Clegg safe.........

Ashcroft has IDS number 2 Esther Mcvey behind in her seat.............

Don't forget the big plus for the Tories is voter registration...................Like Republicans in the USA......They are more likely to register.....

Pollsters don't ask are you registered !!

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 12:54 pm

Rowley wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Rowley wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Rowley wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hmm well if you think that is bad how about the scaremongering companies who threatened to pull out of Scotland if a yes vote was passed such as Asda, RBS etc

Is it scaremongering if they mean it? Suspect we will see plenty do likewise with the UK should the EU referendum come to pass. Companies giving voters up front information about the consequences of their decisions is not scaremongering just because it means it might influence people to vote in a manner you don't agree with.

In all fairness though how would any floating voter feel if you have companies threatening to do this or that if a decision is voted for that they don't agree with. That influences a lot of people however you want to look at it.

So your scared that people who are undecided may be given too much information with which to make their decision?

But are/were the companies ever going to do so - that is the point. People/companies say things to influence people in whatever way they can.

Can only comment for myself, but if I was facing the decision about independence, or indeed leaving the EEA in a couple of years, if there was a possibility major employers would be leaving the country was the decision contrary to their wishes I would like to know that before I ticked a particular box.

But again is that an empty threat? We will now never know of course but is that not an outside party (not political unless there is ulterior motive) twisting the arm of the voter? With stuff like that that going on it is quite incredible that 45% still voted yes.

by Derbymanc Fri 08 May 2015, 12:56 pm

Craig, the free prescriptions and school places are a joke in my eyes, if we're all supposed to be one nation and all about equality then why are Scots allowed this???

I'd rather be fully informed about everything than grasping at straws to try and explain things. Big companies are going to give their opinion as it involves them, the same as the MOD stating it would probably move from Faslane down to the South and so on.

The voting public deserve the right to know that and then cast their vote on it. If you had a leader that hadn't countered a lot of arguments with 'we're gonna do it anyway' then i think you would have got your independence (good)

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 12:59 pm

GSC wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:Landslide = 50% of the vote apparently

56 out of 59 seats. What would you call it?

You referred to voters. Only 50% of them voted for the SNP

Only? Tories would kill for that sort of support and so how would you paint 56 seats out of 59?

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 1:03 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Craig, the free prescriptions and school places are a joke in my eyes, if we're all supposed to be one nation and all about equality then why are Scots allowed this???

I'd rather be fully informed about everything than grasping at straws to try and explain things. Big companies are going to give their opinion as it involves them, the same as the MOD stating it would probably move from Faslane down to the South and so on.

The voting public deserve the right to know that and then cast their vote on it. If you had a leader that hadn't countered a lot of arguments with 'we're gonna do it anyway' then i think you would have got your independence (good)

They were brought in by the Scottish government - largely SNP. So you see not gross incompetent as in giving Scotland something you would like - now do you see why Scots vote for them?

But read an earlier post and that is why England should have its own parliament to set up similar laws/rules for the English.

by Derbymanc Fri 08 May 2015, 1:04 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:Landslide = 50% of the vote apparently

56 out of 59 seats. What would you call it?

You referred to voters. Only 50% of them voted for the SNP

Only? Tories would kill for that sort of support and so how would you paint 56 seats out of 59?

Scotlands demise??? Smile

Just kidding Craig, it's a good result for the SNP and it was good to hear Sturgeon stating they weren't chasing a referendum now as they wanted to concentrate on getting things on an even keel.

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 1:09 pm

Derbymanc wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:Landslide = 50% of the vote apparently

56 out of 59 seats. What would you call it?

You referred to voters. Only 50% of them voted for the SNP

Only? Tories would kill for that sort of support and so how would you paint 56 seats out of 59?

Scotlands demise???

Just kidding Craig, it's a good result for the SNP and it was good to hear Sturgeon stating they weren't chasing a referendum now as they wanted to concentrate on getting things on an even keel.

End of the day Derbymanc the Tories and Labour have screwed BRITAIN over for far too long. They have failed Britain for too long and continue to get away with it. People now want other options and Scotland's is the SNP and England's I think will become UKIP.

by Rowley Fri 08 May 2015, 1:10 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:

But again is that an empty threat?

I have no idea, but can say with equal confidence you don't either though. What I do know is I would rather have it in the public domain before I voted than after as I am then in a position to make an informed decision. Should be said, even though it should be fairly obvious that if I judge it an empty threat I would still have the option of saying yes if I do view it as an empty threat. I personally credit people with enouh intelligence to decide these things for themselves.

by **superflyweight** Fri 08 May 2015, 1:12 pm

Free prescriptions and university places are a complete red herring - along with the ongoing freeze on council tax. They don't help the poorest in society (who should have those things anyway), are not redistributive and lead to under-investment in heath, education and local services (the latter usually at the expense of those who need them the most).

All you need to do is look at Scots Gov spending in those areas in contrast to the spending in RUK to realise that the idea that the SNP is a socialist party is like some kind of sick joke.

All they care about is independence and to hell with the consequences and to hell with actually properly governing their current jurisdiction.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 May 2015, 1:18 pm

Just like to say now his career at the top level is gone and despite how much I hated the fact that him and his party sold out.......What a Heavyweight politician Nick Clegg was !!!

Only won the leadership over Huhne by 50.5% - 49.5% and thank goodness he did for the Liberals as Belmarsh isn't a good place to start a campaign from !!!....

Changed the complexion of the last election after his appearances at the 2010 debates and made the Tories balk at the same format again this time..............

Got 23% of the vote in 2010..........which was a great achievement considering what he inherited form Menzies campbell........

Took his party into government for the first time in a 100 odd years !!

Low earners will be grateful for having the tax threshold lifted....................Gay marriage...

Let's not get him confused with the lightweight Ed Miliband.............

Politics has lost one of it's heavyweights.............and there aren't many about !!

Hard act to follow for whoever comes next.............

History may be kinder to him than many think at the moment...........

by Duty281 Fri 08 May 2015, 1:21 pm

I loved it when Farage tore him apart with relentless ease.

Ah, I miss you Nige.

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 1:21 pm

superflyweight wrote:Free prescriptions and university places are a complete red herring - along with the ongoing freeze on council tax. They don't help the poorest in society (who should have those things anyway), are not redistributive and lead to under-investment in heath, education and local services (the latter usually at the expense of those who need them the most).

All you need to do is look at Scots Gov spending in those areas in contrast to the spending in RUK to realise that the idea that the SNP is a socialist party is like some kind of sick joke.

All they care about is independence and to hell with the consequences and to hell with actually properly governing their current jurisdiction.

So can you explain why Scots voted the way the did last night then?

by Rowley Fri 08 May 2015, 1:22 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:

So can you explain why Scots voted the way the did last night then?

Braveheart on TV the night before?

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 May 2015, 1:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:I loved it when Farage tore him apart with relentless ease.

Ah, I miss you Nige.

I thought Clegg won both debates...............

Have to factor in Clegg's personal ratings when they happened..

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 May 2015, 1:23 pm

Rowley wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:

So can you explain why Scots voted the way the did last night then?

Braveheart on TV the night before?

Are you telling me the SNP had an Aussie standing in every seat ??

by **superflyweight** Fri 08 May 2015, 1:24 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
superflyweight wrote:Free prescriptions and university places are a complete red herring - along with the ongoing freeze on council tax. They don't help the poorest in society (who should have those things anyway), are not redistributive and lead to under-investment in heath, education and local services (the latter usually at the expense of those who need them the most).

All you need to do is look at Scots Gov spending in those areas in contrast to the spending in RUK to realise that the idea that the SNP is a socialist party is like some kind of sick joke.

All they care about is independence and to hell with the consequences and to hell with actually properly governing their current jurisdiction.

So can you explain why Scots voted the way the did last night then?

The aforementioned underinvestment in education.

by GSC Fri 08 May 2015, 1:30 pm

by **Hero** Fri 08 May 2015, 1:31 pm

I've voted LD for a number of elections now and Clegg was stuck between a rock and a hard place after going into coalition, which also was a poisoned chalice that they had no choice but to grasp.
For all the good he did as part of the coalition the tuition fee broken promise will forever be his legacy unfortunately, it's a shame he's no longer there within the cabinet to rein in David when they go OTT on cuts etc.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 May 2015, 1:33 pm

Hero wrote:I've voted LD for a number of elections now and Clegg was stuck between a rock and a hard place after going into coalition, which also was a poisoned chalice that they had no choice but to grasp.
For all the good he did as part of the coalition the tuition fee broken promise will forever be his legacy unfortunately, it's a shame he's no longer there within the cabinet to rein in David when they go OTT on cuts etc.

His legacy will be taking the Libs into government...................Let's face it It'll be another 100 years till they go back..

by SecretFly Fri 08 May 2015, 1:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:I loved it when Farage tore him apart with relentless ease.

Ah, I miss you Nige.

I think Farage is relieved in a sense. He's a reasonably decent enough man who could argue a point of principle....especially when talking about Europe. But I think even he knew he was attracting some downright Monster Raving Looney chaps. I think Nigel maybe wanted off the boat before the more bloodthirsty zombie members lost all self control.

I think UKIP will implode without him. Nobody will have the patience or ability to hold the loose-cannon guys in check.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 May 2015, 1:39 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I loved it when Farage tore him apart with relentless ease.

Ah, I miss you Nige.

I think Farage is relieved in a sense. He's a reasonably decent enough man who could argue a point of principle....especially when talking about Europe. But I think even he knew he was attracting some downright Monster Raving Looney chaps. I think Nigel maybe wanted off the boat before the more bloodthirsty zombie members lost all self control.

I think UKIP will implode without him. Nobody will have the patience or ability to hold the loose-cannon guys in check.

They should beg him to stay !!

by Duty281 Fri 08 May 2015, 1:58 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I loved it when Farage tore him apart with relentless ease.

Ah, I miss you Nige.

I think Farage is relieved in a sense. He's a reasonably decent enough man who could argue a point of principle....especially when talking about Europe. But I think even he knew he was attracting some downright Monster Raving Looney chaps. I think Nigel maybe wanted off the boat before the more bloodthirsty zombie members lost all self control.

I think UKIP will implode without him. Nobody will have the patience or ability to hold the loose-cannon guys in check.

He's certainly relieved. I think UKIP, now Britain's third largest party in terms of support, will survive and be able to consolidate without him.

UKIP may just be able to have a different image without him, as well.

by **superflyweight** Fri 08 May 2015, 2:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I loved it when Farage tore him apart with relentless ease.

Ah, I miss you Nige.

I think Farage is relieved in a sense. He's a reasonably decent enough man who could argue a point of principle....especially when talking about Europe. But I think even he knew he was attracting some downright Monster Raving Looney chaps. I think Nigel maybe wanted off the boat before the more bloodthirsty zombie members lost all self control.

I think UKIP will implode without him. Nobody will have the patience or ability to hold the loose-cannon guys in check.

He's certainly relieved. I think UKIP, now Britain's third largest party in terms of support, will survive and be able to consolidate without him.

UKIP may just be able to have a different image without him, as well.

Final polls for GE15 and round up !! - Page 5 Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_775066

by SecretFly Fri 08 May 2015, 2:10 pm

The board meeting to elect a new Leader.

by Lowlandbrit Fri 08 May 2015, 2:11 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:History may be kinder to him than many think at the moment...........

I'd agree with that, especially since I'm pretty sure the next act in the script they've been following is them going to a more idealogical leader who the party base love, but who doesn't really connect to the general public.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I think UKIP will implode without him. Nobody will have the patience or ability to hold the loose-cannon guys in check.

They should beg him to stay !!

That seems to be what he's hoping for with his 'maybe I'll stand again' resignation speech.

by SecretFly Fri 08 May 2015, 2:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I loved it when Farage tore him apart with relentless ease.

Ah, I miss you Nige.

I think Farage is relieved in a sense. He's a reasonably decent enough man who could argue a point of principle....especially when talking about Europe. But I think even he knew he was attracting some downright Monster Raving Looney chaps. I think Nigel maybe wanted off the boat before the more bloodthirsty zombie members lost all self control.

I think UKIP will implode without him. Nobody will have the patience or ability to hold the loose-cannon guys in check.

He's certainly relieved. I think UKIP, now Britain's third largest party in terms of support, will survive and be able to consolidate without him.

UKIP may just be able to have a different image without him, as well.

You gotta admit that it's hard keeping down the pop-upper raving mad crowd though. Every month or two, just when you think this here UKIP is respectable folks, someone comes out and says something Monty Pythonish and the build up has to begin again.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 May 2015, 2:16 pm

Harriet Harman is going too.....So there will be a leader and deputy leader election........

Man/Woman or Woman/Man ...Take your pick..

Burnham and Reeves/Piero/Creasy..............I think I'm in love with stella Creasy..

Cooper and Umunna/Jarvis..............Now there is a deputy position on offer not sure Umunna will go for the top job..

by SecretFly Fri 08 May 2015, 2:20 pm

"maybe I'll stand again"...for the Conservatives. Afterall, they're going to have the referendum that I wanted anyway, and they like dapper coats just like me....

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 2:22 pm

superflyweight wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
superflyweight wrote:Free prescriptions and university places are a complete red herring - along with the ongoing freeze on council tax. They don't help the poorest in society (who should have those things anyway), are not redistributive and lead to under-investment in heath, education and local services (the latter usually at the expense of those who need them the most).

All you need to do is look at Scots Gov spending in those areas in contrast to the spending in RUK to realise that the idea that the SNP is a socialist party is like some kind of sick joke.

All they care about is independence and to hell with the consequences and to hell with actually properly governing their current jurisdiction.

So can you explain why Scots voted the way the did last night then?

The aforementioned underinvestment in education.

Well things don't tally up. I have lived in England and Scotland in recent years and I certainly had better health treatment in Scotland with less waiting times to be dealt with in hospital and for treatment so that poo poos the health theory. And you say free prescriptions and university places are a red herring yet people in England would certainly like some of that. And sorry but you don't get it. Independence is what SNP are striving for and is what 45% of what Scots want. What exactly do Tories and Labour have in common with Scottish voters? Zilch hence their catastrophic showing last night.

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 08 May 2015, 2:32 pm

Rowley wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:

But again is that an empty threat?

I have no idea, but can say with equal confidence you don't either though. What I do know is I would rather have it in the public domain before I voted than after as I am then in a position to make an informed decision. Should be said, even though it should be fairly obvious that if I judge it an empty threat I would still have the option of saying yes if I do view it as an empty threat. I personally credit people with enouh intelligence to decide these things for themselves.

It wasn't an empty threat in RBS case I know that much. Whether it was for Asda I don't know. I know this because the corporate office I sometimes work for had called me to London for a few weeks to supervise sealing and transfer of confidential files and there was talk of RBS purchasing the top two floors at Kingdom Street

by **ShahenshahG** Fri 08 May 2015, 2:35 pm

superflyweight wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
superflyweight wrote:Free prescriptions and university places are a complete red herring - along with the ongoing freeze on council tax. They don't help the poorest in society (who should have those things anyway), are not redistributive and lead to under-investment in heath, education and local services (the latter usually at the expense of those who need them the most).

All you need to do is look at Scots Gov spending in those areas in contrast to the spending in RUK to realise that the idea that the SNP is a socialist party is like some kind of sick joke.

All they care about is independence and to hell with the consequences and to hell with actually properly governing their current jurisdiction.

So can you explain why Scots voted the way the did last night then?

The aforementioned underinvestment in education.

Haha

by **superflyweight** Fri 08 May 2015, 2:47 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
superflyweight wrote:Free prescriptions and university places are a complete red herring - along with the ongoing freeze on council tax. They don't help the poorest in society (who should have those things anyway), are not redistributive and lead to under-investment in heath, education and local services (the latter usually at the expense of those who need them the most).

All you need to do is look at Scots Gov spending in those areas in contrast to the spending in RUK to realise that the idea that the SNP is a socialist party is like some kind of sick joke.

All they care about is independence and to hell with the consequences and to hell with actually properly governing their current jurisdiction.

So can you explain why Scots voted the way the did last night then?

The aforementioned underinvestment in education.

Well things don't tally up. I have lived in England and Scotland in recent years and I certainly had better health treatment in Scotland with less waiting times to be dealt with in hospital and for treatment so that poo poos the health theory. And you say free prescriptions and university places are a red herring yet people in England would certainly like some of that. And sorry but you don't get it. Independence is what SNP are striving for and is what 45% of what Scots want. What exactly do Tories and Labour have in common with Scottish voters? Zilch hence their catastrophic showing last night.

One anecdotal experience doesn't "poo poo the health theory". It's not a theory - it's fact. Spending (per capita) on the NHS is lower n Scotland that in comparison to spending on the NHS in the rest of the UK and lower than it was under the previous Scottish Labour government. As health is a devolved issue, the SNP (and Sturgeon in particular as Scottish health minister) has overseen that reduction in spending.

As for not getting it? I get the fact that there is a healthy number of Scots who want independence. The majority though are existential nationalists and want independence for the sake of independence. That's fine - good luck to them, but what concerns me is the creation of an environment in which anyone voicing legitimate concerns about the SNP or its plans for independence is shouted down and proper debate is abandoned in favour of pushing towards a single-minded objective.

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 2:58 pm

The shouting down of opinions happened on both fronts on the referendum debate so lets not pretend that it is all one way traffic. Heck a Tory MP last night says this went on from Labour candidate. I am still waiting for an explanation as to what the Tory and Labour party has in common with Scottish voters - naff all that is what. I am mystified as to why people should want to vote for parties that have done sweet FA for Scotland for 150 odd years. That is the crux of things here really. Labour and Tory incompetence for acting in Scotland's interests hence they have virtually no representation in Scotland.

56 seats out of 59 is a glowing indictment of Scottish voters backing the SNP and it follows a trend? Why? If, as you pretend that SNP are so pathetic in all areas, then please explain why support is growing for the party and not bombing out.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 08 May 2015, 3:01 pm

Youtube is full of yobbish behaviour from Nats when Jim Murphy was trying to speak in public....

Yep there is bad behaviour from Labour, UKIP, Conservative etc...............But not in the SNP's league..

by SecretFly Fri 08 May 2015, 3:03 pm

Would you.............................. please!!!!! Just........................................... look.................................... would you pl........................................... would you allow me my opinion without...................... Please, would you just stop interrupting me, Truss!

by Ent Fri 08 May 2015, 3:09 pm

Nationalism is an ideology, not a direction for a political party.

And won't be around for long if they don't develop an identity beyond independence.

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 3:10 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Youtube is full of yobbish behaviour from Nats when Jim Murphy was trying to speak in public....

Yep there is bad behaviour from Labour, UKIP, Conservative etc...............But not in the SNP's league..

Says a staunch Labour supporter who has just had their party virtually eradicated from Scotland. thumbsup

Look closer to home as to why that is? As soon as the Tories and Labour admit to having problems in Scotland and admit (almost like an alcoholic) of their gross wrong-doings in the past then they can move on and try to rebuild a modicum of faith in their wretched parties.

by SecretFly Fri 08 May 2015, 3:13 pm

Ent wrote:Nationalism is an ideology, not a direction for a political party.

And won't be around for long if they don't develop an identity beyond independence.

Independence is an Identity...as the UK knows only too well when they contemplate 'Europe' and remove themselves from aspects of Europe (currency and possibly more after a referendum) to maintain Independent Identity.

by **superflyweight** Fri 08 May 2015, 3:33 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:The shouting down of opinions happened on both fronts on the referendum debate so lets not pretend that it is all one way traffic. Heck a Tory MP last night says this went on from Labour candidate. I am still waiting for an explanation as to what the Tory and Labour party has in common with Scottish voters - naff all that is what. I am mystified as to why people should want to vote for parties that have done sweet FA for Scotland for 150 odd years. That is the crux of things here really. Labour and Tory incompetence for acting in Scotland's interests hence they have virtually no representation in Scotland.

56 seats out of 59 is a glowing indictment of Scottish voters backing the SNP and it follows a trend? Why? If, as you pretend that SNP are so pathetic in all areas, then please explain why support is growing for the party and not bombing out.

Off the top of my head and at the risk of this going all a bit Life of Brian - minimum wage, NHS, welfare state, Scottish Parliament.

I'm not pretending. The SNP have overseen comparative under-spending in health, education and local services. I'm not saying that in itself is pathetic, but I am saying that it's pathetic that much of the Scottish electorate is incapable of questioning it.

by Adam D Fri 08 May 2015, 3:43 pm

superflyweight wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:The shouting down of opinions happened on both fronts on the referendum debate so lets not pretend that it is all one way traffic. Heck a Tory MP last night says this went on from Labour candidate. I am still waiting for an explanation as to what the Tory and Labour party has in common with Scottish voters - naff all that is what. I am mystified as to why people should want to vote for parties that have done sweet FA for Scotland for 150 odd years. That is the crux of things here really. Labour and Tory incompetence for acting in Scotland's interests hence they have virtually no representation in Scotland.

56 seats out of 59 is a glowing indictment of Scottish voters backing the SNP and it follows a trend? Why? If, as you pretend that SNP are so pathetic in all areas, then please explain why support is growing for the party and not bombing out.

Off the top of my head and at the risk of this going all a bit Life of Brian - minimum wage, NHS, welfare state, Scottish Parliament.

I'm not pretending. The SNP have overseen comparative under-spending in health, education and local services. I'm not saying that in itself is pathetic, but I am saying that it's pathetic that much of the Scottish electorate is incapable of questioning it.

But apart for minimum wage, NHS, welfare state, Scottish Parliament, what has the Tories and Labour ever done for us?

by Ent Fri 08 May 2015, 3:44 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Ent wrote:Nationalism is an ideology, not a direction for a political party.

And won't be around for long if they don't develop an identity beyond independence.

Independence is an Identity...as the UK knows only too well when they contemplate 'Europe' and remove themselves from aspects of Europe (currency and possibly more after a referendum) to maintain Independent Identity.

No it's not, if you have no ideas beyond independence then if and when you achieve it another party will rise up and take your spot.

Happened to the uup, had no agenda other than unionism and the dup took their place.

by **superflyweight** Fri 08 May 2015, 3:45 pm

The aquaduct!

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 3:53 pm

Ent wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Ent wrote:Nationalism is an ideology, not a direction for a political party.

And won't be around for long if they don't develop an identity beyond independence.

Independence is an Identity...as the UK knows only too well when they contemplate 'Europe' and remove themselves from aspects of Europe (currency and possibly more after a referendum) to maintain Independent Identity.

No it's not, if you have no ideas beyond independence then if and when you achieve it another party will rise up and take your spot.

Happened to the uup, had no agenda other than unionism and the dup took their place.

No if Independence had of been voted for the SNP the SNP would have got sat in power long enough for a general election to be arranged and new parties would then come into being. Perhaps Scottish Labour or Scottish Conservative or under a different guise. The difference being that those parties would be creating policies etc only relevant to Scotland whereas in the present structure such parties will only ever be the puppets of Westminster passing bills only of interest outwith of Scotland and not having the backbone to get things done for Scotland as their ideaology is one of the union and that is all that interests them - Scotland's interests are way down on their agenda.

by Rowley Fri 08 May 2015, 4:05 pm

Duty281 wrote:Farage gone as well.

As he is now unemployed who is in the market for a loud mouth right wing gobshyte who likes a pint and a fag? Someone contact the BBC, we have a new host for Top Gear.

by GSC Fri 08 May 2015, 4:07 pm

Scotland voted to be part of that union last time I checked.

by Rowley Fri 08 May 2015, 4:09 pm

GSC wrote:Scotland voted to be part of that union last time I checked.

Yeah but only because those opposing independence cheated by making people aware of potential consequences of the decision.

by SecretFly Fri 08 May 2015, 4:11 pm

Ent wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Ent wrote:Nationalism is an ideology, not a direction for a political party.

And won't be around for long if they don't develop an identity beyond independence.

Independence is an Identity...as the UK knows only too well when they contemplate 'Europe' and remove themselves from aspects of Europe (currency and possibly more after a referendum) to maintain Independent Identity.

No it's not, if you have no ideas beyond independence then if and when you achieve it another party will rise up and take your spot.

Happened to the uup, had no agenda other than unionism and the dup took their place.

The goal is Independence. The argument for Independence will and has included detail. Nationalism is what it is - and the UK do it as much as any other when fighting their corner in world affairs. National interest. National political interest, National security interest. National interest within a European Union. 'Nationalism' isn't a bad word. Some like to tarnish it so but it is what it is. All Independent Nations remain 'nationalistic' in their very practical dealing with the world week in and week out.

The only issue is that those that do not wish Scotland to become Independent will always argue that it needs something more than Nationalism to legitimise it. No, it needs the idea that you are a distinct Nation that can govern itself independently of outside influence except through wished for treaties that you are an equal partner in and negotiate as equals.

by GSC Fri 08 May 2015, 4:12 pm

Rowley wrote:
GSC wrote:Scotland voted to be part of that union last time I checked.

Yeah but only because those opposing independence cheated by making people aware of potential consequences of the decision.

Typical scaremongering from multinational corporations in the pocket of the British Government

by **superflyweight** Fri 08 May 2015, 4:17 pm

My favourite independence argument was the one where Salmond said that an independent Scotland would share the pound.

So a net exporter of oil would be a junior partner in a currency share with a net importer of oil? Aye - genius!

by CaledonianCraig Fri 08 May 2015, 4:24 pm

GSC wrote:Scotland voted to be part of that union last time I checked.

Have a look at the history of opinion polls on the subject and you will notice that the call for Independence is one growing louder and stronger. Hmm 5% in it is far from as conclusive as it looked like being when the whole referendum was announced and I'd say getting 45% was a measure of the will to make it happen despite what Labour individuals were scaremongering. Ironic really. Their modus operandi throughout the campaign was based on what losing Scotland would do for the chances of the Labour party getting back into Westminster hence their motives for protecting the union but now Scotland is virtually Labour MP-free now anyway. Also ask yourself the make-up of those that voted. It may surprise you but a heck of a lot of English people live in Scotland and it is a given that many of them voted no for obvious reasons and the rest that voted no were given promises by Labour in a last-ditch attempt to curry favour and top that off with the spin put out in a rather childish manner like you can't have the pound, you'll lose the NHS, you'll lose the Queen blah blah blah and you have the royalists aboard the no vote. Even though a lot of those things were perhaps not even realistically going to happen it worked on convincing the gullible to vote no. We had all of that yet still the vote was 45% so by no means was this an overwhelming shout to stay in the union. Put it this way - if it had been a boxing match we'd have calls for a rematch now.

by GSC Fri 08 May 2015, 4:34 pm

And if the SNP had managed to successfully provide answers that these things weren't going to happen with sound reasoning behind it then they couldve brought those voters back.

Except the SNP dont have the answers to those questions. And if I were voting on independence, id want to be damn sure they did. Voting for independence otherwise is so stupid its barely worth contemplating.

You call it scaremongering, I call it wanting to know there's a realistic and sound strategy after independence.

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