TNA - Breaking News - Perhaps?

First topic message reminder :

Unconfirmed news coming from the US that Destination America are about to cancel their deal with TNA - Although completely unsubstantiated at this point where would TNA go from what would be a huge setback so soon after the loss of the deal with Spike?

ROH sign with Destination America - Is that a good or bad thing for TNA?

I think a good thing, it shows they are confident in wrestling as a programming option. If Ring of Honor starts seriously outperforming TNA, which I doubt it will, then it will become a bad thing for TNA.

When Coogan said the media were being worked, he may have been right! Signing a second company hardly indicates that Destination America are unhappy with wrestling as a product on it's channel.

A sloppy angle perhaps!

Who saw that coming? I'm guessing for one Dixie, I was listening to her SCSA podcast yesterday where she really goes into overdrive about how wonderful DA are, the marketing money that DA spent on TNA, the vision they share, etc. It really is quite an interesting listen in what has occurred between that being recorded and now.

However, if TNA has bought RoH and the first episode of RoH on Destination America is an Invasion Angle by TNA I will call this all levels of awesome.

Especially being that ROH's next PPV is headlined by Joe, AJ, Daniels and Kaz.

Interesting article http://tjrwrestling.net/ring-of-honor-comes-to-destination-america-what-does-this-mean-for-tna/

Obviously it's not necessarily good news; it can be spun either ways. This could be a sign that DA have lost faith in TNA as a product but want wrestling. Therefore their logic being, put ROH just before Impact, take TNA's viewers and then drop TNA.

^ these were my thoughts, Better wrestling less worn out storylines & i suspect a hell of alot cheaper then TNA. Add in ROH's link with NJPW it makes it alot more appealing.

Also as Paul's link just showed, MVP has said TNA talents were not aware of ROH being signed and he's actually put his e-mail out there for promoters. Looks like TNA's days could be numbered.

Hero wrote:Especially being that ROH's next PPV is headlined by Joe, AJ, Daniels and Kaz.

Do you find this name interesting? Joe who has just joined NXT / WWE in some form and is also doing gigs for RoH. Can't believe that he didn't know this was on the cards and well... dunno, could just be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

Maybe Joe is trying to force WWE's hand to get a more concrete deal with more money was my 1st thought tbh.

Fernando wrote:Maybe Joe is trying to force WWE's hand to get a more concrete deal with more money was my 1st thought tbh.

I assume the flexibility of the deal was what made Joe want to sign up. Can make more money with indie bookings than just purely NXT, allows him to do the things he wants to, then do the NXT thing. Not expecting him ever to be called up to the main roster.

Fernando wrote:Maybe Joe is trying to force WWE's hand to get a more concrete deal with more money was my 1st thought tbh.

Well, if Joe can only work 1 national TV show, that's actually shortened his hand. Anyway, Joe's a bit of a side issue (though an interesting one). Apparently Dixie has a press conference coming up. Meltzer is saying this has completely blind-sided TNA and the plan is for RoH to be a significantly cheaper wrestling alternative to replace Impact.

Prometheus wrote:Right, thanks for being my Billy Corgan Babelfish Adam.

Using our "606 scale of believability" (Patent pending) I'd only be 70% on the reverse clauses in the contract.  So, I'm not convinced that DA would be as tightly locked down as TNA, on the basis that I think they were the bigger player in negotiations and it was their contract.  But, as you probably know most contracts have a degree of ambiguity in them and I'm sure there are enough lawyers in the US that could find what you wanted them to find on any piece of paper.

Well that just plunged to about 10%, given that Dixie didn't even get an exclusivity clause from Destination America, that's pretty bad deal making.

Maybe TNA can become a feeder roster like NXT for ROH

Well, this is great news. ROH on a wider platform will make it easier to watch, force improvements and, most importantly for ROH I'm sure, gain my viewing time more regularly.

I'm not getting that excited yet, it is only a 6 month contract, and it doesn't put them on my TV.

But RoH is clearly the #2 wrestling company in the US and they have a great chance to expand their brand now.

I'd say this is bad news for Lucha Underground, assuming it does return for a second season, but then I realised their viewing figures can't be hit that hard anyway

Just use the ROH Website

This is like banging the neighbour behind ya wife's back but just continuing when she walks in on you

DA seemingly shafting TNA hard with a better cheaper alternative.

So there's a chance Samoa Joe could finish the year on Destination America but TNA won't?

For what its worth this should be a good chance for both companies. I think its more interesting to see how WWE react to ROH and their contract with Samoa Joe.

This can be seen as DA using RoH as a placement for TNA, which is why its scheduled to be shown before Impact, or that the whole cancel thing was false and DA are into the wrestling thing and its a decent draw for them.

It really depends on what/ who you want to believe.

Meltzer apparently published a internal memo from DA yesterday:

Wrestling Observer (via wrestlezone) wrote:Destination America is not renewing TNA Wrestling next year. While the ratings were strong, the audience was not large enough to justify the program investment. We plan to honor the current contract and continue to air original episodes of TNA Wrestling on Friday nights through the end of the third quarter 2015. When the up-front rate card is released, the Friday night anthology title will now be called ‘American Tales,’ which will be a combination of Paranormal and Americana programming. I hope this is good news given all of the advertisers that included TNA on their DNA list.

Apparently, Meltzer is claiming that DA are still broadcasting on "Friday" nights.

Now this could be taken 2 ways:

1. This was prior to the move to Wednesday and the move is a last ditch attempt to get TNA to work. ROH is cheap (its not being paid for as the shows were already being made - in other words, the money that ROH is making from DA is a bonus on their fixed costs). So maybe the model is to try and get the TNA audience over to their cheap alternative.

2. Its all BS and that Meltzer is making it all up.

Now I dont believe number 2 but I also dont think that TNA is done with (ie I dont believe the above memo).

Apparently, ROH and DA were in discussion for several months and the announcement was always going to be announced yesterday.

Now here is my thoughts on what actually happened:

1. There was discussion about being cancelled but it never was. It was put in the last chance sallon.
2. Dixie was aware of ROH joining and asked to be moved to straight after it. ROH also knew of this and agreed for the greater benefit.
3. Only a few people on TNA and ROH knew.
4. Billy Corgan was one of the people who did know and it was revealed to him prior to starting - this is why he was referring to exciting times and "working a sloppy angle"
5. Meltzer does have contacts and has been partially worked.
6. If ratings dont improve to at least 500k on first showing, it will still get pulled.

I know it wont happen but how awesome would it be if during the main event of the live ROH show, some TNA talent show up for a new invasion angle?

A question to really ask does this mean we will see ROH in the UK on challenge?

MetalMotty wrote:A question to really ask does this mean we will see ROH in the UK on challenge?

You may do but it has nothing to do with the DA deal!

I think the problem with your time line Adam is:
1) MVP tweeted after the RoH / DA announcement.  Now, he may be still working us, but it really doesn't read like that to me.  Why would he not be saying something to the effect that "this is great news".

2) TNA talent like Rockstar Spud were pulled from scheduled media interviews yesterday, so again that points to it being news to the talent.  Why not let them know this is happening if that is the plan?  Keeping them in the dark, just doesn't sound like good management.

3) Meltzer (and unfortunately we have to take him on this, unless you heard it elsewhere) reports that Dixie had a TC with the TNA talent yesterday and no real questions were answered.  So, she was telling talent that for legal reasons they can't discuss the contract, etc.  

And maybe everyone at TNA is working us all.  But I find it easier to read this as TNA being blind-sided.  

All balls are in DA's court now.  If they find an evening of wrestling is great for them and their sponsors, they renew both contracts.  If RoH pulls the same numbers as TNA, they drop TNA and extend the RoH contract as that will be cheaper for them.  If they both bomb, they drop them both.

agree totally with the last statement but I do think that the TNA management (ie Dixiew, John Gad and Corgan) most probably knew about it.

I think that the talent didnt - that I know for a fact as I had an email from one of their wrestlers saying that he didnt know and had a coworkers contact him about it all too.

I still think that there is an element of deception here from TNA, DA and Meltzer. DA hold all the card. I then think that TNA management know more than they are letting on. Meltzer is just a patsy in all of this.

I can understand your dislike of Meltzer, but I think describing him as the patsy in this is a bit harsh.

I stand to be corrected, but he's still got this kind of right hasn't he?
- He reported that. Destination America had an internal memo saying they were cancelling TNA
- He then also reported that this internal memo was previous to the announcement of TNA moving to Wednesday. And the read I got was that he then said that TNA may go, it may stay, who knows now.

So, look I don't subscribe to the man I'd prefer to spend my money on watching wrestling. But, I'm not seeing what he's done wrong here, he just seems to be reporting what he knows when he knows it.

Back to TNA management. I could understand (particularly if the Dixie email story is true) that DA told Dixie and a couple of other managers in TNA that RoH was happening. But that Dixie could not tell talent, and if word leaked out, then their deal was over immediately. So, you don't tell talent that RoH is happening. But I think you can tell talent that there is a plan and they will see what that is very shortly and that it will be good. But leaving them in the dark says that either the management are really bad (which I can believe), management is completely uncaring (which Dixie did not sound like on the SCSA podcast) or TNA did not know about this deal (which is where I lean to).

This is a must watch:

I don't think that video will be something TNA will approve. He's practically saying that TNA's future is in jeopardy and that he's willing to jump ship if anybody offers.

I think it's got to the point now where it will be a big surprise if TNA is still on Destination America in 2016. 

The whole thing stinks of unprofessionalism and it's ridiculous to think that TNA still can't run itself properly.

We dont actually know what Dixie and Co knew ahead of time.

Until TNA is dropped or renewed, we dont know who is telling the truth.

All we have at the moment is one dirtsheet putting out unsubstantiated rumours. And to me, the ROH announcement makes me think that the mole for these rumours is in TNA and not DA because otherwise, the ROH negotiations would have leaked.

That in itself makes me think the leaked DA internal memo is BS.

Maybe I just dont want to believe it but I still dont think that TNA is cancelled in the fall.

We all see the same reports and information. How we interpret those can obviously vary. And maybe you are right Adam, but I just don't see the story that validates a claim that anything other than what Meltzer has reported / rumoured is true.

Where is it? Where is the Destination America press release saying that they are so into wrestling their plan is to have two shows. Why didn't they negate the rumours TNA was to be cancelled? Why do TNA talent seem to think they are blindsided by this?

TNA could well be on Destination America in 2016 and beyond. But it is really, really hard for me to see that narrative at the moment. But, unless Destination America make an unequivocal statement one way or the other, I guess only time will tell.

I don't think it even matters who knew what or when, the point is that TNA have lost the plot right now, they're being blindsided from every side. 

There are rumours of cancellation.
They have moved days.
One of their tapings wasn't even shown, a year old PPV was shown instead. (Gained less than 1/4 of a million viewers as well)
Then their TV station hires a considerably cheaper wrestling show to the surprise of their talent.
Now their talent is coming out and talking about TNA going out of business and how they are in the dark.

It's just bad news after bad news and whether or not some of the things end up not being true, TNA have handled everything about this horribly.

The only thing I would say about that is that networks dont usually release press releases about negative rumours.

TNA should have but I am guessing that Discovery dont want to have to issue releases every time a internet hack says something negative about a show of theirs.

If no rumours had come out about the get out clause (and it being used), the news this week would largely be positive:

TNA in a better time slot.
ROH supporting the new time slot creating a Wednesday wrestling block.

Both of these things were missed by Meltzer (the move and the addition).

Meltzer has an agenda against TNA which to me weakens his credibility on this story.

We aren't going to agree on this Adam. And as we've both acknowledged, only Destination America and time will reveal what happens, when it happens.

But

Adam D wrote:
If no rumours had come out about the get out clause (and it being used), the news this week would largely be positive:

reminds me of this:

Does he have an agenda though? I haven't seen evidence of it other than that he posts mostly negative stories about TNA, which is the same as almost all of the wrestling dirt sheets.

I think that even if you take Meltzer out of the equation completely, you would still reach the conclusion that things are far from good at TNA.

1)  I don't think that TNA has sold a ticket to a paying customer to see their product live in USA in 2015.  
2)  Destination America cut all its proposed TNA programming around Impact.
3) Destination America chose not to show a new Impact show over the Memorial Day weekend, instead showing a Slammiversary repeat. A new show was shown internationally.
4)  Destination America signed a cheaper wrestling product.

And you can add stuff around that which you can see as a glass half empty, like the arenas it's shows are recorded in really feeling quite empty, or wrestlers being let go at the time of contract re-negotiation.  

Now, we might still all have thought that TNA had a 2 year deal with Destination America and they'd be good to the end of 2016, but even without the dirtsheets I don't think you could look at TNA and think they were in a solid long term, future safe position.

The equivalent of this thread is Adam holding his hands over his ears and shouting "LA LA LA" really loudly so he can't hear any bad news

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:The equivalent of this thread is Adam holding his hands over his ears and shouting "LA LA LA" really loudly so he can't hear any bad news

Meow!

Give the guy a break! He's obviously upset at the idea he might not get to take any more selfies with Dixie.

Personally I'll be a little sad if TNA is dropped, but I have to admit to becoming steadily less interested as time has gone on. Only watched parts of the last Impact show and even missed the main event (which I think was Bobby Roode vs Bram, for some inexplicable reason).

EC3, Spud, Ken Anderson, the Hardys, the Wolves, Roode and Aries are about the only talent I'd tune in to watch now. The lack of good feuds / storylines is telling, I think, in how flat the crowds usually are, which makes for a fairly hollow viewing experience.

If Destination America does decide to part ways with TNA I hope Challenge get to show RoH instead...be nice to see some familiar faces from TNA (and the better talent they let go).

Someone mentioned a possible invasion angle, if DA decided to keep both companies on their schedule. That something I'd love to see, as I missed out on the whole WWF /WCW thing (read up on the history a bit, but didn't see it as it was happening).

There seem to be some very good reports on this week's tag match between Wolves and the Dirty Heels.

Prometheus wrote:There seem to be some very good reports on this week's tag match between Wolves and the Dirty Heels.  

I can confirm it was a great match (as you'd expect). I'd put it up there with the 3-way tag matches between the Hardys, Team 3D and the Wolves. Fast-paced, lots of nice combinations and near-pins to keep the excitement levels up.

I'm actually kinda glad its a 5-match series now.

Spoiler:

BGT was being DVR'd (don't ask) so I didn't manage to tape this. I'll have to see if I can find a copy out there on the web somewhere.

I thought it was an excellent show and much better than the last few weeks.

Taryn vs Kim was really good. The two of them show so much physicality.

Kenny King looked an absolute star in the X Division match. Same goes for Manik.

EC3 vs Anderson was meh. EC3 really handles himself well with things like the refusal to shake hands at the end.

Tag match was really good - these four always put on a great match. 

The main event was disappointing compared to what had gone before. I did like the way that Eric Young got out of the first submission!

I also thought the opening was entertaining as it was different - EY driving to the arena where Angle confronted them. Gave a different type of feel to the show from the off. Also really digging the Dollhouse entrance music - its grown on me.

It was the best Impact show that I've seen this year. Which is a shame as the writing now seems on the wall.

The best of 5 tag team matches are very good so far. Although I don't like the way TNA books it. The Wolves are winning 2-0 but you can guarantee that the Dirty Heels are gonna win the next 2 matches to make it a decider to end the series.

nadeem2099 wrote:The best of 5 tag team matches are very good so far. Although I don't like the way TNA books it. The Wolves are winning 2-0 but you can guarantee that the Dirty Heels are gonna win the next 2 matches to make it a decider to end the series.

Isn't that the same however the score goes though? Match goes 1-1 and whoever wins the next one, well we expect the other team to win the 4th. Okay, the counter is that we've got 1 more meaningful matches, but it is still the same issue in wrestling.

True. At least TNA are doing something right with their tag team division. It was the right move putting Roode and Aries back together again. Although I hope they don't have a falling out and one of them turns heel and they start feuding with each other.

Also James Storm was brilliant on the mic aswell. The "bad bad man" line was great.

Saw a tweet saying that Impact did less than 100K viewers more than ROH last night (including the Impact re-run). If those numbers hold, that can't be good for TNA.

This week's impact being summed up by one particular angle between James Storm and Mickie James. There's wrestling that suspends belief, and there's stuff that is just stupid.

Spoiler:

ROH at 8PM: 163,000 viewers TNA at 9PM-11PM: 297,000 viewers ROH at 11PM: 110,000 viewers TNA West Coast: 72,000 viewers
TNA's last episode (on a Friday) had 413,000 viewers.
ROH has regularly been doing nearly half a million viewers on Sinclair, plus getting good viewings on their site, so their numbers are really good for a debut. And not counting NESN, just on TV they're already regularly getting over 770,000 viewers with this new deal.

Thats the information ive seen anyway.