Ulster 2015/2016

First topic message reminder :

Thought i would give ol' GC a helping hand and try and get Ulster types looking inward at what has been a tricky season and looking forward to next season and how we should improve. Dont have time to put down all my own theories but will do so later. This thread is a matawalu free zone btw!

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:New Lock???

From Harlequins???

Who is it? Where is Geoff??

If I was to hazard a guess it could be Kieran Treadwell, who's played for Ireland and England at U-18 level?

T'other forum's version of Geoff gave the Harlequins link and the IQ link too so Treadwell sounds the most likely indeed. Another medical joker which hasn't historically worked well for us

People shouldn't expect big things from an injury joker signing that has to be Irish qualified. The point is; get a player in so you can still field a squad of players in their right positions in case of yet more injuries. There's no point in getting jazzed up about it...

Pete330v2 wrote:

rodders wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:New Lock???

From Harlequins???

Who is it? Where is Geoff??

If I was to hazard a guess it could be Kieran Treadwell, who's played for Ireland and England at U-18 level?

T'other forum's version of Geoff gave the Harlequins link and the IQ link too so Treadwell sounds the most likely indeed. Another medical joker which hasn't historically worked well for us

Is he not signing next season?

Injury update;

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/14474.php#.VpaIUOtmw04

Ireland internationals Darren Cave (shoulder) and Jared Payne (foot) have returned to training following their injuries and are in contention to play against Saracens on Saturday.

Nick Williams was concussed during Sunday's win over Oyonnax and will follow the return to play protocols. He will be unavailable for selection this weekend against Saracens.

Sammy Arnold strained his hamstring in the first half of the Oyonnax match and will be sidelined for approximately three weeks.

Louis Ludik is having treatment for an adductor strain he suffered in the same match and he is likely to be rested this week.

Wiehahn Herbst has recovered from a calf injury and he is likely to feature against Saracens this weekend.

Stuart Olding is recovering well from an anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) injury suffered against Cardiff last March. He is in full training and is likely to return to competitive action in the coming weeks.

Tommy Bowe (knee), Iain Henderson (hamstring) and Dan Tuohy (ankle) are recovering well from their respective injuries. A return to play date is yet to be determined for the trio.

If Ludik is to be rested and Arnold is out, at least one of Cave or Payne will have to be in the match day squad. Only five other outside backs besides them fit and available. I imagine Gilroy will continue at 15 with Scholes and Trimble and then we might see some rotation in the centres.

Mostly good news there to be honest - although when Stuart Olding plays again I will be watching through my hands. ACL injuries are horrible and suffering two in quick succession is horrendous. I felt the same way when Luke Marshall returned from the concussion episodes. I sincerely hope the pair of them can have long careers playing for both Ulster and Ireland.

Regardless I am expecting Olding to return playing at 10. We need a good backup to Paddy Jackson and assuming he will be involved in the Six Nations we could see Olding starting a few games there.

Same Rory. Think he would have had a reasonable amount of game time there had he stayed fit.

Given how short-lived his last comeback was, I'll be joining you behind the sofa. Really hope his worst injuries are behind him.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Mostly good news there to be honest - although when Stuart Olding plays again I will be watching through my hands. ACL injuries are horrible and suffering two in quick succession is horrendous. I felt the same way when Luke Marshall returned from the concussion episodes. I sincerely hope the pair of them can have long careers playing for both Ulster and Ireland.

Regardless I am expecting Olding to return playing at 10. We need a good backup to Paddy Jackson and assuming he will be involved in the Six Nations we could see Olding starting a few games there.

What is Olding like at 10?

Marshes wrote:What is Olding like at 10?

He's a solid tackling, hard running, slick passing, talented kicking fly half!

The Great Aukster wrote:

Marshes wrote:What is Olding like at 10?

He's a solid tackling, hard running, slick passing, talented kicking fly half!

Oh really? That's encouraging! I thought centre and full back were his future!!

Anybody braving the weather tomorrow night and heading to the Ravens A game against Bedford at Deramore?

Marshes wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

Marshes wrote:What is Olding like at 10?

He's a solid tackling, hard running, slick passing, talented kicking fly half!

Oh really? That's encouraging! I thought centre and full back were his future!!

He came into the setup at 10 and started his first games there. He then played at 12 where he was outstanding.

Treadwell from Quinns who's a large lock that covers 6 as well and Rodney Ah You both on route to Ulster.

Not a bad couple of signings to be honest.

I think so Rodders, time will tell but Treadwell's meant to be a solid player and Ah You can be worked on

It seems the dream of Pocock at Ulster has been shattered as Midi are reporting Bordeaux, Racing, Toulon and Toulouse are waiting on him deciding between them in the coming days

marty2086 wrote:It seems the dream of Pocock at Ulster has been shattered as Midi are reporting Bordeaux, Racing, Toulon and Toulouse are waiting on him deciding between them in the coming days

If money's all he wants he can go there, if he wants real honest rugby he should still come to Belfast

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:It seems the dream of Pocock at Ulster has been shattered as Midi are reporting Bordeaux, Racing, Toulon and Toulouse are waiting on him deciding between them in the coming days

If money's all he wants he can go there, if he wants real honest rugby he should still come to Belfast

I thought a different way of life here might appeal to him but then again did Ulster even try for him?

Pete330v2 wrote:

marty2086 wrote:It seems the dream of Pocock at Ulster has been shattered as Midi are reporting Bordeaux, Racing, Toulon and Toulouse are waiting on him deciding between them in the coming days

If money's all he wants he can go there, if he wants real honest rugby he should still come to Belfast

Maybe he checked the weather forecast!

Honestly, I had thought the Pocock to Ulster thing was tongue in cheek. Was it ever a serious option? Or am I missing the point?

I'm not sure the Pocock rumour really had any substance although a few strong clues were being banded about on t'other forum by yer man in the know.
Mind you, it was Midi that officially reported that Ruan had signed for Toulon a couple of years back so their sources are probably not unlike our own, made up in utter desperation for a bit of a conversation maker.

What about this little conundrum raised by someone on the match thread...

Piutau
Payne
Trimble
Gilroy
Bowe
Cave
Olding
Luke Marshal
McCloskey
Nelson (who showed himself much superior to the remaining squad backs)

Which 3/4 won't even make the bench of a European cup clash??? And which 5 will start? As for the league... How much can you rotate whilst still hoping to build a cohesive unit?

Injuries will always be a factor as well as international call ups so I think everyone will get a good chance.

It is true that injuries are more and more common. But its not unheard of for a partnership to go uninterrupted for a good run. If there's six nations looming and players can't get their chance to shine I can see them unhappy.

15 Piutau
14 Trimble
13 Payne
12 McCloskey
11 Bowe
10 Jackson

On bench we would need scrum half and fly half cover.

So then... One more back out of

Gilroy, Cave, L Marshall, Olding. Maybe Olding will be fly half cover on bench?

I can see Cave cashing in on a move to France.

If injuries lead to Piutau being shifted to wing and Payne to full back I could see Gilroy become disgruntled. Probably need a few injuries before he would get used. That said I've had him ahead of Bowe for much of the past while. Bowe on the bench sounds unthinkable though.

clivemcl wrote:It is true that injuries are more and more common. But its not unheard of for a partnership to go uninterrupted for a good run. If there's six nations looming and players can't get their chance to shine I can see them unhappy.

15 Piutau
14 Trimble
13 Payne
12 McCloskey
11 Bowe
10 Jackson

On bench we would need scrum half and fly half cover.

So then... One more back out of

Gilroy, Cave, L Marshall, Olding. Maybe Olding will be fly half cover on bench?

I can see Cave cashing in on a move to France.

If injuries lead to Piutau being shifted to wing and Payne to full back I could see Gilroy become disgruntled. Probably need a few injuries before he would get used. That said I've had him ahead of Bowe for much of the past while. Bowe on the bench sounds unthinkable though.

I don't think we can afford to lose any of them, Clive. Think about how badly we have been hit by injuries, as always, and the only addition to your list is Piutau. Added to that is the fact that Bowe isn't getting any younger, I wouldn't have him as a starter now, and neither is Trimble, although I think Trimble still has a couple of seasons in him.
We really need Olding to cover for Jackson. Humphs simply isn't good enough. Not even at Pro12 level.
Piutau will be great for us in different ways, but I don't think he will be with us beyond the two years, and so that needs to be factored in as well.

I actually think in the future we could see Olding, Marshall and McCloskey all featuring in the 23. Olding can play anywhere basically and Marshall can cover both centre positions. Cave and Marshall will probably be the two battling it out for the bench.

Odds now seem to be heavily against us in terms of qualification. Not only did we fail to eke the extra point we probably needed out of either Oyonnax or Saracens away, every result that could have went against us at the weekend probably did- including two gutting last minute tries by Toulon and Northampton to turn games that so nearly worked out well for us.

I'm just tying to figure out some of the permutations in play for the scenarios that would get us through. Essentially we need favourable results in two out of the other four pools due to us being the 10th ranked side going into the finale. We need 5 points from Oyonnax for 18 total and then two out of;

Stade Francais lose to Leicester
Ospreys lose to Exeter and/or Clermont lose to UBB
Toulon lose to Bath and/or Wasps lose to Leinster
Saints lose to Scarlets

It gets interesting if several teams are tied on 18 points. Comes down to points difference, then tries scored, then disciplinary record, then drawing lots. Ulster only have a better points difference than Saints of all the teams who can match or better our maximum possible total of 18. We have scored more tries than the Ospreys, Northampton, Toulon and Wasps but less than Stade or Clermont.

If we do scrape through as the 8th seed, and I would strongly advise you not to bet the house on that happening, we'll probably play Saracens again. I mean... I'm not terribly excited about playing them again. We get shown up every time, it's tragic. So Allez Toulouse.

We should aim high against Oyonnax, 80 minutes of high intensity and try and run-up a big score and a lot of tries. Sure, it might blow up in our face, but it will be entertaining rugby and better to die trying!

I have only just seen this, sorry if it has already been discussed, but Ulster have signed Rodney Ah You from Connacht.

http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/18853.php#EjY7Jg954Cb5q82v.97

I did not know he was IQ either, I would have thought Ulster would be aiming higher than him, although he is not a bad player.

There's one half of me yearning for Ulster to get through to the knockout stages and from there who knows what could happen, it's knockout rugby after all. Facing Saracens again would be yet another chance to do better against them and maybe sneak a win if we could add the needed ballast to our pack.
The other half cannot wait for us to exit the Franglo cup in order to concentrate on our bread and butter league and go all out to win it, play every game like it's a European final. The Champs Cup is so heavily in favour of the Toulons and Saracens of this world that it's becoming more of a waste of time and resources every year.

I'm torn!

LordDowlais wrote:I have only just seen this, sorry if it has already been discussed, but Ulster have signed Rodney Ah You from Connacht.

http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/18853.php#EjY7Jg954Cb5q82v.97

I did not know he was IQ either, I would have thought Ulster would be aiming higher than him, although he is not a bad player.

Ah You has been capped for Ireland as well LD. We've also (apparently) signed Keiran Treadwell from Harlequins, also Irish qualified.

LordDowlais wrote:I have only just seen this, sorry if it has already been discussed, but Ulster have signed Rodney Ah You from Connacht.

http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/18853.php#EjY7Jg954Cb5q82v.97

I did not know he was IQ either, I would have thought Ulster would be aiming higher than him, although he is not a bad player.

Well we can't sign another non-Irish tight head, so it has to be someone who is Irish qualified somehow and there's not many Irish tight heads around. This is also an IRFU-influenced signing. I think it's been engineered by Nucifora in Dublin.

I think it's a good enough signing. He'll add to our depth and to our competition. Also he has more ability around the park than Herbst or Lutton.

Not that's he the perfect tight head...

My question is, what will it cost Ulster to bring him in? If we get someone from another province do we have to give someone up? Like a centre?

Don't know but... I doubt Ulster are going to give up a centre without a serious fight.

If Ah Yous confirmed then Id take it everything else is confirmed, maybe even Arnold to Connacht for a year if Henshaws off to Leinster mightn't be a bad idea

Notch wrote:Not that's he the perfect tight head...

On the plus side, he kept his bind even then, which is pretty impressive.

Rodney was a bit of fan favourite at the Sportsground, unfortunate to see him go but hopefully Bealham and Loughney can now focus on becoming number 1 there. Great about the park but can be a bit lost in the scrum at times, wish him all the best in his development and hope he pushes on to his goals.

Arnold to Connacht for a year would only stand in the way of players who have been impressive when called upon, Parata and Robb in the centre and on the wings definitely have the potential so would be a bit silly to help Ulster's players develop rather than our own.

If some loan deal from the big three goes along with Henshaw and and Ah You leaving then I think all of Nucifora's bluster will not have achieved the target of four competitive and equally supported provinces, it would be a pretty inequitable outcome for Connacht.

Have to say that I agree, Marshes. Not that I'm completely against Ah You coming, just not if it means weakening connacht, especially since the move doesn't significantly add to Ulsters strength. I feel the same way about Henshaw.

I'm not sure thats true, because they still have Nathan White plus Bealham and Loughney. I think they're alright there.

I think the difference between Ah You and Henshaw is Ah You was probably encouraged to leave, whereas I don't think the IRFU want Henshaw to move. Of course they might allow him to move to Leinster if its that or let him take up an overseas contract. I might be wrong, the whole thing is as clear as mud.

I'm in favour of Ah You coming to Ulster. He is mobile and has decent hands for a Tighthead. He's not a great scrummager but then Ulster need a bench 3 who can come on for the last quarter, when the game is opening up and the opposition pack are tired. I can still see Herbst and Lutton starting before him but Rodney getting the bench ahead of either of them.

I don't think this is a bad move for Connacht either as they aren't a team that changes the game with the bench players. Their natural modus operandi is to stick to their game plan for 80 minutes and that's served them well.

Notch wrote:I'm not sure thats true, because they still have Nathan White plus Bealham and Loughney. I think they're alright there.

I think the difference between Ah You and Henshaw is Ah You was probably encouraged to leave, whereas I don't think the IRFU want Henshaw to move. Of course they might allow him to move to Leinster if its that or let him take up an overseas contract. I might be wrong, the whole thing is as clear as mud.

I think if they are encouraging Ah You to leave, then for it to be equitable Connacht should be seeing transfer support for their problem positions while we have the resources at TH. I don't think there is much that can be done at 10 at the minute that would be IQ, but we are very light on decent cover for Buckley at LH, and could be at centre if Henshaw goes (although Griffin is coming back). Somebody like Dooley at Leinster coming in would be ideal, but the IRFU need to be convincing players that they believe in Connacht as a viable and long term competitor.

Nothing against Rodney leaving and wish him all the very best at Ulster, he really improved in his time at Connacht and hope he goes further.

I just hope big Rodneys can bring something to the party at Ulster. He's a big lump and a very mobile one at that. He can do plenty of ball carrying etc and with a different coaching setup perhaps even his scrummaging could improve. It's obvious we need another TH as Herbst has been thrashed half to death the last two seasons, it's no wonder his form is suffering.

Marshes wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm not sure thats true, because they still have Nathan White plus Bealham and Loughney. I think they're alright there.

I think the difference between Ah You and Henshaw is Ah You was probably encouraged to leave, whereas I don't think the IRFU want Henshaw to move. Of course they might allow him to move to Leinster if its that or let him take up an overseas contract. I might be wrong, the whole thing is as clear as mud.

I think if they are encouraging Ah You to leave, then for it to be equitable Connacht should be seeing transfer support for their problem positions while we have the resources at TH. I don't think there is much that can be done at 10 at the minute that would be IQ, but we are very light on decent cover for Buckley at LH, and could be at centre if Henshaw goes (although Griffin is coming back). Somebody like Dooley at Leinster coming in would be ideal, but the IRFU need to be convincing players that they believe in Connacht as a viable and long term competitor.

Nothing against Rodney leaving and wish him all the very best at Ulster, he really improved in his time at Connacht and hope he goes further.

Fancy an ex-Brumbie loosehead?

The Great Aukster wrote:

Marshes wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm not sure thats true, because they still have Nathan White plus Bealham and Loughney. I think they're alright there.

I think the difference between Ah You and Henshaw is Ah You was probably encouraged to leave, whereas I don't think the IRFU want Henshaw to move. Of course they might allow him to move to Leinster if its that or let him take up an overseas contract. I might be wrong, the whole thing is as clear as mud.

I think if they are encouraging Ah You to leave, then for it to be equitable Connacht should be seeing transfer support for their problem positions while we have the resources at TH. I don't think there is much that can be done at 10 at the minute that would be IQ, but we are very light on decent cover for Buckley at LH, and could be at centre if Henshaw goes (although Griffin is coming back). Somebody like Dooley at Leinster coming in would be ideal, but the IRFU need to be convincing players that they believe in Connacht as a viable and long term competitor.

Nothing against Rodney leaving and wish him all the very best at Ulster, he really improved in his time at Connacht and hope he goes further.

Fancy an ex-Brumbie loosehead?

That's a no go, who'd keep the Ravens bench warm?

The Great Aukster wrote:

Marshes wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm not sure thats true, because they still have Nathan White plus Bealham and Loughney. I think they're alright there.

I think the difference between Ah You and Henshaw is Ah You was probably encouraged to leave, whereas I don't think the IRFU want Henshaw to move. Of course they might allow him to move to Leinster if its that or let him take up an overseas contract. I might be wrong, the whole thing is as clear as mud.

I think if they are encouraging Ah You to leave, then for it to be equitable Connacht should be seeing transfer support for their problem positions while we have the resources at TH. I don't think there is much that can be done at 10 at the minute that would be IQ, but we are very light on decent cover for Buckley at LH, and could be at centre if Henshaw goes (although Griffin is coming back). Somebody like Dooley at Leinster coming in would be ideal, but the IRFU need to be convincing players that they believe in Connacht as a viable and long term competitor.

Nothing against Rodney leaving and wish him all the very best at Ulster, he really improved in his time at Connacht and hope he goes further.

Fancy an ex-Brumbie loosehead?

has he even turned out for the ulster first team? What else ye got by way of LH? Like I say Dooley at Leinster would be a good option, if he has Healy and McGrath ahead of him at Leinster

Marshes wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

Marshes wrote:

Notch wrote:I'm not sure thats true, because they still have Nathan White plus Bealham and Loughney. I think they're alright there.

I think the difference between Ah You and Henshaw is Ah You was probably encouraged to leave, whereas I don't think the IRFU want Henshaw to move. Of course they might allow him to move to Leinster if its that or let him take up an overseas contract. I might be wrong, the whole thing is as clear as mud.

I think if they are encouraging Ah You to leave, then for it to be equitable Connacht should be seeing transfer support for their problem positions while we have the resources at TH. I don't think there is much that can be done at 10 at the minute that would be IQ, but we are very light on decent cover for Buckley at LH, and could be at centre if Henshaw goes (although Griffin is coming back). Somebody like Dooley at Leinster coming in would be ideal, but the IRFU need to be convincing players that they believe in Connacht as a viable and long term competitor.

Nothing against Rodney leaving and wish him all the very best at Ulster, he really improved in his time at Connacht and hope he goes further.

Fancy an ex-Brumbie loosehead?

has he even turned out for the ulster first team? What else ye got by way of LH? Like I say Dooley at Leinster would be a good option, if he has Healy and McGrath ahead of him at Leinster

Yes, a couple off the bench against Zebre and the first half against Edinburgh, all at the start of the 2014 season - he must be the highest paid player per minute in the squad!

As for the others, the main three are Kyle McCall, Andrew Warwick and Callum Black.
The youngest is McCall (24) who started as a centre at school and as he filled out(!), he moved to the back row and now the front row. That shows up in his play as he is mobile has good hands and is good at the breakdown, so you're not getting him.
Almost a year older is Andrew Warwick who looked good in his first season and can play both sides. His future might lie at the tight side, but like McCall he is mobile although doesn't have his subtlety. With McCall's emergence he might not be getting the development he needs, but he does have the raw materials to potentially be good. I'd like to keep him.
Black doesn't let anyone down and is rarely bested by a TH, he doesn't offer much in the loose but that's not for lack of effort...

In short, you can have Murphy!

Stuart Olding back for Ulster "A".

Welcome back, exciting young Ulster centre #526.

Yes, great to see Olding back playing. Fingers crossed is injury doesn't flare up again.

Don't think it's a question of flaring up - if he does it again he's now used up his quota of 'spares' from his hamstring store and will have difficulty walking never mind playing.

It's one reason I'd like to see him play more at outhalf or fullback where the traffic is less congested and the prangs less frequent.

Yes, it's a nasty injury, Aukster, but hopefully that's his last.

I would like to see him play at outhalf, but for different, and purely selfish, reasons.

Awesome news re. Olding.

In terms of keeping an eye on some of the recent signings we've made, Sam Windsor's kicking from hand has been so poor he's been shifted from 10 into 12 whilst Paul Rowley can't even make the Ravens 23 even when Dave Shanahan isn't involved.

I don't want to be mean about anybody but Rowley might be one of the worst players I've seen in an Ulster jersey, and thats saying a lot. Windsor can't kick at all, but at least he can run and pass. I can only imagine Rowley was signed so that we didn't have to call up AIL players to run as the opposition in training drills.

That does sound mean reading it back, and it's nothing personal if you're reading this Paul, but it's pretty hard to sugarcoat it.