Irish RWC: Pick your Hookers ;)

Hi all,

Haven't posted here in a long time tbh but I did this for the last world cup and thought it would be good to do again.
I want to get a sense of what the Irish (and non-Irish) 606ers think the Irish squad should be.

I am taking it as near guaranteed that there will be a 17-14 split
6 props
3 hookers
4 locks
4 backrow

3 scrumhalves
2 flyhalves
3 centres
6 outside backs

Hookers: PICK 3

Best- Best has been in fantastic form for the past year. His lineout throwing has been more consistent and he is bringing that tigerish workrate to rucks and mauls with huge efficiency. He isn't a flash hooker but he makes teams tick.
Cronin- Cronin has improved his lineout throwing and is locked into the Leinster first team. He is a devil in the loose and acts as another centre the way Best acts as another backrow.
Strauss- Strauss has been something of an anomaly this season. He is undoubtedly a fantastic player but he has struggled to put in consistent performances and is lacking form. His position is under real threat.
Herring- Herring has risen well over the last season or so. His physicality and lineout throwing both are strong and he brings a lot to games he's involved in.
Casey- Casey has lost out to Munster's Argentinian import. He is definitely the beneficiary of Munster injuries in this position. He is not in the same league as guys like Sherry and Varley who would have a really definite shout at getting into the RWC squad.

Please discuss your reasons for voting before you vote as I have not put vote cancelling on and somebody's point of view may sway your decision.

Well Best and Cronin are nailed on. Went for Strauss as 3rd choice but to be honest Casey or Herring would be deserving either as Strauss isn't the player he was a couple of seasons ago.

I think if Doak had given Herring more gametime last season, he'd be edging Strauss out.

Best is the heart and soul of the Ulster team, and that has proved a major hurdle for Herring, meaning he hasn't gotten the minutes on the pitch that his hard work and attitude deserve. Mobile, decent ball carrier, solid defensively, smart player. Occasional wobbly darts.

In a tough, niggly, hard-fought game, I'd honestly expect Herring to contribute more than Strauss.

So, for me, Best, Cronin, Herring.

Went for Herring as well as Strauss hasn't been the same player since coming back from that surgery. Would love if we had a someone whose darts we could depend on though.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Casey- Casey has lost out to Munster's Argentinian import. He is definitely the beneficiary of Munster injuries in this position. He is not in the same league as guys like Sherry and Varley who would have a really definite shout at getting into the RWC squad.

Is this going to be a slag off every Munster player because you don't actually know what you are talking about.

Casey has had a shoulder injury but because of Varley & Sherry's injuries, he has soldiered on.

Great young hooker. Prior to his shoulder injury, best lineout thrower in the country by a country mile.

Golden wrote:Went for Herring as well as Strauss hasn't been the same player since coming back from that surgery. Would love if we had a someone whose darts we could depend on though.

Went for Strauss out of habit but really wouldn't have any problem with Herring getting it.Strauss has been inconsistent with his throwing and hasn't been as effective in the loose since coming back from his heart scare.Will always be a Leinster favourite but I'd be worried if he was playing in a big match for Ireland.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Casey- Casey has lost out to Munster's Argentinian import. He is definitely the beneficiary of Munster injuries in this position. He is not in the same league as guys like Sherry and Varley who would have a really definite shout at getting into the RWC squad.

Is this going to be a slag off every Munster player because you don't actually know what you are talking about.

Casey has had a shoulder injury but because of Varley & Sherry's injuries, he has soldiered on.

Great young hooker. Prior to his shoulder injury, best lineout thrower in the country by a country mile.

Oh here we go again, can you please not derail this with your warped view on anything Munster. He has stated is opinion that Varley and Sherry are better players than Casey, but for injury Casey has got plenty of game time. If am not mistaken that would imply they would be on the contention list for RWC (hardly slagging off is it); and who knows, someone like Sherry could have had gametime for Ireland, or Wolfhounds etc to get into JS's plans.

The fact is that Casey isn't starting for Munster anymore, and an NIQ is ahead of him instead of an established international. If he is carrying an injury, fair play for soldering on but it has affected his performances (hence being dropped). It is unfortunate (injuries always are), but we need 3 lads who in JS's mind can deliver on the pitch, not "he would if he wasn't carrying this knock or that".

Your knowledge on the players is valuable to discussions, but no one is out to "slag" munster players so no need for needless accusations.

My choices are Best, Cronin and Strauss. My decision was based on experience at international level. Potential in for 2019 but not now.

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Casey- Casey has lost out to Munster's Argentinian import. He is definitely the beneficiary of Munster injuries in this position. He is not in the same league as guys like Sherry and Varley who would have a really definite shout at getting into the RWC squad.

Is this going to be a slag off every Munster player because you don't actually know what you are talking about.

Casey has had a shoulder injury but because of Varley & Sherry's injuries, he has soldiered on.

Great young hooker. Prior to his shoulder injury, best lineout thrower in the country by a country mile.

Oh here we go again, can you please not derail this with your warped view on anything Munster. He has stated is opinion that Varley and Sherry are better players than Casey, but for injury Casey has got plenty of game time. If am not mistaken that would imply they would be on the contention list for RWC (hardly slagging off is it); and who knows, someone like Sherry could have had gametime for Ireland, or Wolfhounds etc to get into JS's plans.

The fact is that Casey isn't starting for Munster anymore, and an NIQ is ahead of him instead of an established international. If he is carrying an injury, fair play for soldering on but it has affected his performances (hence being dropped). It is unfortunate (injuries always are), but we need 3 lads who in JS's mind can deliver on the pitch, not "he would if he wasn't carrying this knock or that".

Your knowledge on the players is valuable to discussions, but no one is out to "slag" munster players so no need for needless accusations.

My choices are Best, Cronin and Strauss. My decision was based on experience at international level. Potential in for 2019 but not now.

Pete has just written off Casey completely as not being good enough without knowing that
a) Casey has been carrying a shoulder injury for the 2nd part of the season but soldiered on because Munster were down to Eusebio & Scannell (Academy hooker).
b) You seem to be unaware that the reason he lost his place v Eusebio is because he picked up an ankle injury in April that ruled him out for 6 weeks.

Injury is why he was 'dropped'.

If Pete is going to dish players, let him do it with giving full information.

PS - You are picking Strauss on pre heart condition form. He isn't the same since.

I went for Best, Cronin and Herring. I think Herring is the best shout here over he and Strauss as he is a tougher fella and more in the mold of Best than Cronin. I think that we could use Herring more effectively in a RWC than Strauss.

Pre-heart condition Strauss would be a definite pick though.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I went for Best, Cronin and Herring. I think Herring is the best shout here over he and Strauss as he is a tougher fella and more in the mold of Best than Cronin. I think that we could use Herring more effectively in a RWC than Strauss.

Pre-heart condition Strauss would be a definite pick though.

'

I went for the same... Casey was a good shout last autumn, but would need a miracle to get on the plane. Strauss will probably pip Herring though, as Joe loves him.

Sin é wrote:

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Casey- Casey has lost out to Munster's Argentinian import. He is definitely the beneficiary of Munster injuries in this position. He is not in the same league as guys like Sherry and Varley who would have a really definite shout at getting into the RWC squad.

Is this going to be a slag off every Munster player because you don't actually know what you are talking about.

Casey has had a shoulder injury but because of Varley & Sherry's injuries, he has soldiered on.

Great young hooker. Prior to his shoulder injury, best lineout thrower in the country by a country mile.

Oh here we go again, can you please not derail this with your warped view on anything Munster. He has stated is opinion that Varley and Sherry are better players than Casey, but for injury Casey has got plenty of game time. If am not mistaken that would imply they would be on the contention list for RWC (hardly slagging off is it); and who knows, someone like Sherry could have had gametime for Ireland, or Wolfhounds etc to get into JS's plans.

The fact is that Casey isn't starting for Munster anymore, and an NIQ is ahead of him instead of an established international. If he is carrying an injury, fair play for soldering on but it has affected his performances (hence being dropped). It is unfortunate (injuries always are), but we need 3 lads who in JS's mind can deliver on the pitch, not "he would if he wasn't carrying this knock or that".

Your knowledge on the players is valuable to discussions, but no one is out to "slag" munster players so no need for needless accusations.

My choices are Best, Cronin and Strauss. My decision was based on experience at international level. Potential in for 2019 but not now.

Pete has just written off Casey completely as not being good enough without knowing that
a) Casey has been carrying a shoulder injury for the 2nd part of the season but soldiered on because Munster were down to Eusebio & Scannell (Academy hooker).
b) You seem to be unaware that the reason he lost his place v Eusebio is because he picked up an ankle injury in April that ruled him out for 6 weeks.

Injury is why he was 'dropped'.

If Pete is going to dish players, let him do it with giving full information.

PS - You are picking Strauss on pre heart condition form. He isn't the same since.

Ok, he doesn't rate Casey as much as you do. It's hardly slagging a player off though is it? You don't get to start for Munster and be touted for ireland by not being a good player.
No one is out "get" Munster.
Anyway it sounds like injury has ruled him out anyway.

Cronin could be one of the stars of the tournament if gets any sort of chance.

So long as we don't have any scrums or line outs, I have total faith in him.

Best, Cronin and Casey for me. Casey gets the nod simply because he's young enough to benefit from the experience and at least should know a couple of his jumpers' games.

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

the-goon wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Casey- Casey has lost out to Munster's Argentinian import. He is definitely the beneficiary of Munster injuries in this position. He is not in the same league as guys like Sherry and Varley who would have a really definite shout at getting into the RWC squad.

Is this going to be a slag off every Munster player because you don't actually know what you are talking about.

Casey has had a shoulder injury but because of Varley & Sherry's injuries, he has soldiered on.

Great young hooker. Prior to his shoulder injury, best lineout thrower in the country by a country mile.

Oh here we go again, can you please not derail this with your warped view on anything Munster. He has stated is opinion that Varley and Sherry are better players than Casey, but for injury Casey has got plenty of game time. If am not mistaken that would imply they would be on the contention list for RWC (hardly slagging off is it); and who knows, someone like Sherry could have had gametime for Ireland, or Wolfhounds etc to get into JS's plans.

The fact is that Casey isn't starting for Munster anymore, and an NIQ is ahead of him instead of an established international. If he is carrying an injury, fair play for soldering on but it has affected his performances (hence being dropped). It is unfortunate (injuries always are), but we need 3 lads who in JS's mind can deliver on the pitch, not "he would if he wasn't carrying this knock or that".

Your knowledge on the players is valuable to discussions, but no one is out to "slag" munster players so no need for needless accusations.

My choices are Best, Cronin and Strauss. My decision was based on experience at international level. Potential in for 2019 but not now.

Pete has just written off Casey completely as not being good enough without knowing that
a) Casey has been carrying a shoulder injury for the 2nd part of the season but soldiered on because Munster were down to Eusebio & Scannell (Academy hooker).
b) You seem to be unaware that the reason he lost his place v Eusebio is because he picked up an ankle injury in April that ruled him out for 6 weeks.

Injury is why he was 'dropped'.

If Pete is going to dish players, let him do it with giving full information.

PS - You are picking Strauss on pre heart condition form. He isn't the same since.

Ok, he doesn't rate Casey as much as you do. It's hardly slagging a player off though is it? You don't get to start for Munster and be touted for ireland by not being a good player.  
No one is out "get" Munster.
Anyway it sounds like injury has ruled him out anyway.

Pete is being very disrespectful to a young player by not mentioning his injuries. He said he lost out to the argentinian hooker completely unaware that he has had two injuries, his latest one an ankle injury that ruled him out for 6 weeks when he apparently 'lost out' on selection to the Argentinian.

Casey- Casey has lost out to Munster's Argentinian import. He is definitely the beneficiary of Munster injuries in this position. He is not in the same league as guys like Sherry and Varley who would have a really definite shout at getting into the RWC squad.

Pete doesn't watch Munster - how could he actually know anything about their players. He has some neck commenting (always negatively) then.

Notch wrote:So long as we don't have any scrums or line outs, I have total faith in him.

Didn't Best have a meltdown v Glasgow? And that isn't the first time he has had one.

Notch wrote:So long as we don't have any scrums or line outs, I have total faith in him.

Cronin has improved immeasurably here in all fairness. He's been pretty solid for Leinster and hasn't had yips coming off the bench for Ireland the way he used to

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:So long as we don't have any scrums or line outs, I have total faith in him.

Didn't Best have a meltdown v Glasgow? And that isn't the first time he has had one.

I don't recall it being a full throated nutty, Sin. He's still your best scrummaging hooker by some distance.

George Carlin wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:So long as we don't have any scrums or line outs, I have total faith in him.

Didn't Best have a meltdown v Glasgow? And that isn't the first time he has had one.

I don't recall it being a full throated nutty, Sin. He's still your best scrummaging hooker by some distance.

All our hookers have their flaws:
Best: when the pressure is on, his lineout throwing goes to pot (even with Toner in the lineout standing in front of him). He is a good scrummager, good at the breakdown and can actually hook.

Cronin: Can't hook and unreliable lineout thrower. Great ball carrier.

Casey: Lacks experience (still very young), but he can do something that none of our other hookers do, hit his man in the lineout.

As much as I love Best (when he hits his man he's arguably the best in the world) and dislike agreeing with Sin é, I find it strange that Schmidt keeps selecting him. His selection of best is hugely hypocritical of his selection policies and the way he has the Irish team set up.

gleesonisgod wrote:As much as I love Best (when he hits his man he's arguably the best in the world) and dislike agreeing with Sin é, I find it strange that Schmidt keeps selecting him. His selection of best is hugely hypocritical of his selection policies and the way he has the Irish team set up.

Apart from his darts being off the odd time Best is head and shoulders above any of the other candidates. I may be an Ulster fan but I've never been Best's biggest fan however, the man's class on the pitch is undeniable. His place in the Irish setup is due to him being the best hooker by a country mile.

gleesonisgod wrote:As much as I love Best (when he hits his man he's arguably the best in the world) and dislike agreeing with Sin é, I find it strange that Schmidt keeps selecting him. His selection of best is hugely hypocritical of his selection policies and the way he has the Irish team set up.

But who else would he pick? None of our hookers are great at hitting their jumpers. Casey is probably the best from the touch line but hes seriously inexperienced.

Best is really the only option to start. Like you said when his darts are on the button hes amongst the best in the world.

If Strauss could get back to his pre-injury form then he would definitely be pushing him but as is, Best is our No.2.

Golden wrote:

gleesonisgod wrote:As much as I love Best (when he hits his man he's arguably the best in the world) and dislike agreeing with Sin é, I find it strange that Schmidt keeps selecting him. His selection of best is hugely hypocritical of his selection policies and the way he has the Irish team set up.

But who else would he pick? None of our hookers are great at hitting their jumpers. Casey is probably the best from the touch line but hes seriously inexperienced.

Best is the only really option to start. Like you said when his darts are on the button hes amongst the best in the world.

If Strauss could get back to his pre-injury from then he would definitely be pushing him but as is, Best is our No.2.

Its really strange to me how hookers struggle so much with lineout throws... I mean, anyone can have one off bad days, but having consistent issues as a pro seems weird; do they do exercises of the Wilkinson ilk, ie don't go inside until you've slotted over 50 straight kicks? Is it the throw technique? Its a pretty unnatural motion, and I would love to see some innovation in new ways of throwing it in...

I don't get why more people don't throw in using only one hand?
It's a bigger wind up but still I think the power would be much more no????

When Best starts going weird from touch I get the same feeling as when Sexton goes down holding his hamstring.

Joe loves leaders. Best is a leader. I suspect that's also part of the reason Felix Jones is on the bench so often for Ireland, when there are other, more talented players available.

Statistically Ulster have the best lineout in the Pro12, so maybe Best's throwing isn't that bad?

Best is singled out for three particularly poor performances especially the HEC final - when Muller (who was normally Ulster's main Jumper) shouldn't have been playing because he had a torn shoulder muscle and Best threw to everyone else but him.

The Great Aukster wrote:Statistically Ulster have the best lineout in the Pro12, so maybe Best's throwing isn't that bad?

Best is singled out for three particularly poor performances especially the HEC final - when Muller (who was normally Ulster's main Jumper) shouldn't have been playing because he had a torn shoulder muscle and Best threw to everyone else but him.

To be fair he has the blips for country as well as club. I think Best is the obvious choice and he brings so much more to his role, but I've never been fully confident in him finding his man on the pressure throws, and with POM, POC and Toner in there we have some of the best line-out operators in the NH so there is not much excuse. Maybe its just a confirmation bias..

Here's a weird one. If push came to shove could/would/should a guy like Cronin or Strauss end up playing in the backrow or covering backrow?

Has this ever happened??

Herring has played at openside for us, die to injuries during a game - he started off as one.

I thought this must have happened once or twice. We have some seriously dynamic hookers

Ye anyone who has attempted a line out throw can see that Best's technique is strange. He keeps his arms straight rather than letting them naturally move out to the side.

I'd love to see Casey or Strauss given a real go during the warm ups. If Best wasn't to start he probably wouldn't make the bench either.

gleesonisgod wrote:Ye anyone who has attempted a line out throw can see that Best's technique is strange. He keeps his arms straight rather than letting them naturally move out to the side.

I'd love to see Casey or Strauss given a real go during the warm ups. If Best wasn't to start he probably wouldn't make the bench either.

The way that there are kicking coaches and scrum coaches do you think there is a lineout specialist at all? Or does it fall in remits of skills coach or forwards coach.