Irish RWC: Pick your Flyhalves

Hi all,

Haven't posted here in a long time tbh but I did this for the last world cup and thought it would be good to do again.
I want to get a sense of what the Irish (and non-Irish) 606ers think the Irish squad should be.

I am taking it as near guaranteed that there will be a 18-13 split
6 props
3 hookers
4 locks
5 backrow

3 scrumhalves
2 flyhalves
3 centres
5 outside backs

Flyhavles: PICK 2

Sexton-
Probably the best flyhalf north of the equator and one of Ireland's best players. His kicking game is very strong, his defense is outstanding and he is known to be a leader and a guy who thrives in clutch situations.
Madigan- Will also appear in the category for centres
His versatility makes him a good option and it is easy to see him playing 12 or 15 against some of the weaker nations. His goal kicking is the best in Ireland, his running game can be very good, his long passing the best in Ireland. But his mentality is a mess, there are times he steps up and times he crumbles. Do we want him coming on for an injured Sexton with 60mins left? Do we want him on with 10mins left when we're 4 points behind?
Jackson-
Jackson had a tough season right up until the end. Injuries plagued him earlier then he came back and showed his fantastic game awareness with Ulster. He plays lovely short passes into space and his calm appears infectious. His goal kicking is not of international 10 standard however and with no other regular kickers in the squad where does that leave him? A good defender and decision maker with a touch of class.
Keatley-
Ian is a nearly man in most senses. He has had fantastic days in red and some very dire ones. His outing against Italy was mixed. He kicks goals well, he passes well and defends well without being outstanding in any field. He has moments of brilliance and moments of lunacy.

Please discuss your reasons for voting before you vote as I have not put vote cancelling on and somebody's point of view may sway your decision.

Well if we are picking 2 then I go for Sexton and Jackson because they are the best 2 10s.

Have no doubt Madigan will go though and pip Jackson to the bench because of his place kicking and versatility.

If Sexton gets injured then I would start Jackson but it doesn't bear thinking about. As with scrum-half our back options are a big drop off in quality/experience.

There's still a chance JJ might make it and I think Keatleys performances near the end of the season will rule him out.

No real competition here. Keatley's form dropped off a cliff so he won't be making it barring injury. JJ maybe, he should be in the warm up squads for sure.

It's Sexton and Jacko for me. Madigan will be in the mix anyway and may play a part but as a 10 Jackson would be more solid IMO. Keatley generally can't hit a barn door from a dozen paces and doesn't look like he'll ever be up to the required standard.

I really can't see both Madigan and Jackson being in the squad with Sexton.

Earlier this year I thought Madigan would make it, but he has flattered to deceive, and Jackson looks to be the better game manager and all round 10.

I could see Madigan as backline cover perhaps, not specifically as 10 cover. He'd be on the fringes of Joe's thoughts I'm sure.

I'd be amazed if Madigan didn't go. Even with his poor form this year he's been a consistent selection.

Apart from Sexton we have no other reliable kicker.

If Joe goes with only 2 fly-halves then Jackson will miss out, which would be harsh because he is the form no10 and also Madigan has struggled to perform at 10 when he's started games this year.

I think Joe will leave Jackson out and keep him on standby to be honest .

I'd be panicked if it was solely Sexton and Madigan.

Not because of who "deserves" it, or who has or hasn't played "enough" at ten during the season. I think Madigan would lose us games against tough opposition.

Yeah, the idea that if Sexton is injured and Madigan starts... regardless of the fact that he is a better kicker that will see us fail to control games.

Well if Sexton got injured we'd need to bring another 10 in.

Faintly bonkers not to take Madigan, I feel.

rodders wrote:Well if Sexton got injured we'd need to bring another 10 in.

If he got a knock that ruled him out of the French match but he'd be back for the 1/4 final we'd be stuck with the choice of either removing him from the squad altogether or playing the match with no OH cover on the bench.The only way round it would be to remove a fit player from the squad and I don't know if that is allowed.

We have to take all three. And given the paucity of decent midfield cover in the squad (D'Arcy? Reid? Cave?) we should take Madigan as centre and McFadden and Earls as wings who cover centre. This would mean no room for Zebo unfortunately, after Trimble, Bowe and Kearney.

Notch wrote:We have to take all three. And given the paucity of decent midfield cover in the squad (D'Arcy? Reid? Cave?) we should take Madigan as centre and McFadden and Earls as wings who cover centre. This would mean no room for Zebo unfortunately, after Trimble, Bowe and Kearney.

Leaving Zebo and Fitzgerald at home means there is no left footed winger - and Joe likes to have left footed kickers on the left wing. Its Bowe v Trimble for the right wing.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

rodders wrote:Well if Sexton got injured we'd need to bring another 10 in.

If he got a knock that ruled him out of the French match but he'd be back for the 1/4 final we'd be stuck with the choice of either removing him from the squad altogether or playing the match with no OH cover on the bench.The only way round it would be to remove a fit player from the squad and I don't know if that is allowed.

The question is whether Ireland would beat the French with anyone but Sexton at 10? If the answer is no then there is no point in replacing Sexton because Schmidt can defer the decision until after the game depending on the quarter final. If the answer is yes, then is there any point in replacing Sexton, because that would require an injury during that specific game and would the sub then win the game? Too much insurance on insurance having three 10s.

I was an advocate of Madigan earlier in the year because he is far more likely to get game time than Paddy when Sexton is fit - the trouble is that his form has let him down not just at 10 but at 12 and he is only a low choice emergency candidate at fullback.

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:We have to take all three. And given the paucity of decent midfield cover in the squad (D'Arcy? Reid? Cave?) we should take Madigan as centre and McFadden and Earls as wings who cover centre. This would mean no room for Zebo unfortunately, after Trimble, Bowe and Kearney.

Leaving Zebo and Fitzgerald at home means there is no left footed winger - and Joe likes to have left footed kickers on the left wing. Its Bowe v Trimble for the right wing.

Then I'd say that Fitzgerald shades Earls.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:We have to take all three. And given the paucity of decent midfield cover in the squad (D'Arcy? Reid? Cave?) we should take Madigan as centre and McFadden and Earls as wings who cover centre. This would mean no room for Zebo unfortunately, after Trimble, Bowe and Kearney.

Leaving Zebo and Fitzgerald at home means there is no left footed winger - and Joe likes to have left footed kickers on the left wing. Its Bowe v Trimble for the right wing.

Then I'd say that Fitzgerald shades Earls.

 Really? Earls was playing pretty well by the end of this season.

If Sin is right and the left footed kicker is more important than form then yes. If not I stand by my original preference.

If I was picking I would actually take Zebo ahead of Bowe as well but we all know thats not happening.

The Great Aukster wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

rodders wrote:Well if Sexton got injured we'd need to bring another 10 in.

If he got a knock that ruled him out of the French match but he'd be back for the 1/4 final we'd be stuck with the choice of either removing him from the squad altogether or playing the match with no OH cover on the bench.The only way round it would be to remove a fit player from the squad and I don't know if that is allowed.

The question is whether Ireland would beat the French with anyone but Sexton at 10? If the answer is no then there is no point in replacing Sexton because Schmidt can defer the decision until after the game depending on the quarter final. If the answer is yes, then is there any point in replacing Sexton, because that would require an injury during that specific game and would the sub then win the game? Too much insurance on insurance having three 10s.

I was an advocate of Madigan earlier in the year because he is far more likely to get game time than Paddy when Sexton is fit - the trouble is that his form has let him down not just at 10 but at 12 and he is only a low choice emergency candidate at fullback.

I believe the answer is yes we'd have a good chance with someone other than Sexton as long as that someone is a 10.I'd pick Jackson but if he got injured in the game I'd have faith in Madigan to see it out.I don't think it's too much insurance,if we were going down the route of having less cover in the halfbacks then I'd take 2 SH's and let Madigan be emergency cover there.That would be a better solution to free up a spot for a back 5 player imo.

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Notch wrote:We have to take all three. And given the paucity of decent midfield cover in the squad (D'Arcy? Reid? Cave?) we should take Madigan as centre and McFadden and Earls as wings who cover centre. This would mean no room for Zebo unfortunately, after Trimble, Bowe and Kearney.

Leaving Zebo and Fitzgerald at home means there is no left footed winger - and Joe likes to have left footed kickers on the left wing. Its Bowe v Trimble for the right wing.

Then I'd say that Fitzgerald shades Earls.

for the left wing spot. Earls rarely plays on the left wing now (although he has done a fair bit).

Joe said something about not playing Fitz on the right wing in the 6Ns because he is left footed and would have ended up with 3 left footed players in the back 3.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

rodders wrote:Well if Sexton got injured we'd need to bring another 10 in.

If he got a knock that ruled him out of the French match but he'd be back for the 1/4 final we'd be stuck with the choice of either removing him from the squad altogether or playing the match with no OH cover on the bench.The only way round it would be to remove a fit player from the squad and I don't know if that is allowed.

The question is whether Ireland would beat the French with anyone but Sexton at 10? If the answer is no then there is no point in replacing Sexton because Schmidt can defer the decision until after the game depending on the quarter final. If the answer is yes, then is there any point in replacing Sexton, because that would require an injury during that specific game and would the sub then win the game? Too much insurance on insurance having three 10s.

I was an advocate of Madigan earlier in the year because he is far more likely to get game time than Paddy when Sexton is fit - the trouble is that his form has let him down not just at 10 but at 12 and he is only a low choice emergency candidate at fullback.

I believe the answer is yes we'd have a good chance with someone other than Sexton as long as that someone is a 10.I'd pick Jackson but if he got injured in the game I'd have faith in Madigan to see it out.I don't think it's too much insurance,if we were going down the route of having less cover in the halfbacks then I'd take 2 SH's and let Madigan be emergency cover there.That would be a better solution to free up a spot for a back 5 player imo.

That's insurance on insurance though. To really justify a third flyhalf, you need the following circumstances:
1. Sexton to be injured enough not to take any part in the France game but not injured enough to miss the quarter final,
and
2. The starting cover to go off injured in the France game and the bench option able to win the game.

That's a fairly distinctive set of circumstances to require the use of a precious squad place for. The third 10 won't see any game time otherwise and that place is therefore not available for another outside back option. With 13 backs and five of then as half backs that leaves 8 to cover centre and back three. If you take 6 half backs that leaves only seven outside backs - five starting and one on the bench so only one to rotate or cover injuries in a whole tournament? Of course Madigan could play 12 fairly well, but should he go instead of say Earls who could cover the outside backs better but not cover 10 at all?

I think we have to go for Madigan over Jackson as he offers more impact and he covers more positions.

I think we can only bring 2 Flyhalves. I don't think we can sacrifice a 9 or a back 3 position for it.

Seems Keatley is out of the race for 10 so maybe that's an indication that Joe is looking for fewer flyhalves.

I think Schmidts love for Felix Jones is the real problem,I'd have 6 halfbacks then Henshaw,Payne,Kearney,Bowe,Zebo,Earls,Fitzgerald,Trimble.
Madigan and Payne can cover 12,Henshaw,Earls and Fitz cover 13,Earls,Zebo,Fitz and Madigan can all cover fullback.

I was gonna mention Jones too. It would be hard to have Jones and Jackson on a bench. You'd have no centre cover other than Tommy Bowe or Luke if he got selected to start.

If Sexton gets injured and we call up Jackson/Madigan as cover does Sexton have to go home or can we drop one of our outside backs in his place?

asoreleftshoulder wrote:I think Schmidts love for Felix Jones is the real problem,I'd have 6 halfbacks then Henshaw,Payne,Kearney,Bowe,Zebo,Earls,Fitzgerald,Trimble.
Madigan and Payne can cover 12,Henshaw,Earls and Fitz cover 13,Earls,Zebo,Fitz and Madigan can all cover fullback.

ASLS - The likelihood is that Schmidt can only take 13 backs so it is either 5 halfbacks + 8 others or 6+7.

Golden - it may be possible to do that but it would be morally contemptuous. Imagine being told that an injured Sexton is less dispensible than you!

You're right,dunno why I thought we would have 14 backs.Okay so I go with 6 halfbacks and leave Fitzgerald at home.That's what I'd go with if I was picking the squad today.

Do who would you start at 10 against Romania?