Irish RWC: Pick your Scrumhalves

Hi all,

Haven't posted here in a long time tbh but I did this for the last world cup and thought it would be good to do again.
I want to get a sense of what the Irish (and non-Irish) 606ers think the Irish squad should be.

I am taking it as near guaranteed that there will be a 18-13 split

6 props
3 hookers
4 locks
5 backrow

3 scrumhalves
2 flyhalves
3 centres
5 outside backs

Scrumhalves: Pick 3

Murray- Unequivocally first choice. 4 years ago he overtook O'Leary, Reddan and others to become Ireland's first choice. He was a tad slow and at times made interesting decisions. He is not the best 9 in the NH. His kicking game is incredible. His defense, leadership, decision making excellent and his passing very good.
Williams- Has had a good bit of game time this season and has improved a lot. He still is not a great decision making 9 where decision making is so crucial and his passing can go wide of the mark at times. He is adding consistency and has been a running threat for the men in red.
Reddan- Definitely slowing up. His form, like many Leinster players has not been good. He did well coming on in the 6Nations when selected on the bench. We have seen his impact on tempo less and less this season however.
Boss- Another who is not having a great season form-wise. He is a guy who likes to bully the game around the fringes which may suit Ireland's narrower game plan but is he doing it well? Many would argue not. His kicking and passing are average while his defense remains strong.
McGrath- In terms of an attacking threat with natural instincts he is very strong. A very good decision maker for a youngster who has a great pass, great sniping break and runs good support lines. His defense is not strong and he is unproven at many levels. He has got very little HCup experience.
Marshall- Has fallen away from the Irish scene a bit this year with the inclusion of Marmion. He is still lightening over 20metres and when a team is on the front foot he is very good. It's the nitty gritty of getting his team on the front foot that he struggles with.
Marmion- Has looked fantastic for the first 6 months of the season. Got some time with Ireland in Argentina. His attacking instincts again are phenomenal. His passing is excellent. Kicking is good. His defense and work rate are strong. He's had injuries in the last couple of months however.
Hart- Hart is playing for Grenoble at the moment and much has been made of his performances there. He has looked good whenever I have seen him, crisp passing, accurate kicking and sensible decision making. He is short of HCup level experience but he has played against top French teams.
Stringer- The 98 cap man has been having a good season at Bath minus a period in the middle. His service is still lightening quick and he is a calm head who makes good decisions. He should have been snapped up by an Irish province by now but continues to play in England.


Please discuss your reasons for voting before you vote as I have not put vote cancelling on and somebody's point of view may sway your decision.

I'm finding this really hard.
Murray is a definite.

In my heart of hearts I want to take Stringer and Marmion on the tour but I think there is just too much unknown in there. I think Reddan will have to go with one of those 2.

Is Reddan playing poorly attributed to him, or MOC game plans or both????
He did well in the 6Nations at times.

Can Marmion rediscover his form in the warm ups?

Will Stringer be given a shot at all?

Murray, Reddan and Boss.

Reddan especially has been really out of sorts but don't think anyone has stepped up to challenge.

Marmion has been poor and McGrath could be a bolter but his lack of experience is a risk so unless he has a stormer in the warm ups would take Boss.

I don't think there is any point bringing Reddan and Boss. Both are out of form. There's no need to bring 2 out of form players for their experience.

I can totally see why you'd need to bring 1 of them or Stringer who is remarkably better form and has much more experience.

I think Charlie Mulchrone (Worcester) should be in the mix here. He played for Ireland at U18 level, I'm surprised he hasn't been tapped up yet!

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I don't think there is any point bringing Reddan and Boss. Both are out of form. There's no need to bring 2 out of form players for their experience.

I can totally see why you'd need to bring 1 of them or Stringer who is remarkably better form and has much more experience.

Stringer is too long out of the international arena. He's done a good job at Bath but for me he's a one trick pony and would be badly found out physically.

The premiership is pretty slow compared to international rugby, and there is very little contest at the breakdown so it's not surprising that his quick service has stood out with so many good players outside him for bath.

McGrath is the only guy with form but wouldn't be confident if he was starting.

I would love to pick Marmion but he's fallen away in the second half of last season.

I'd actually have Cooney ahead of Williams, Hart and Marshall. Was impressed with him at Leinster and the few games I've seen him for Connacht. Don't think he really got a fair shake of the stick with the highly rated prospect of McGrath coming up behind him. Plus he played in the Emerging Ireland games which would suggest he's rated ahead of the above. How did he get on?

Not that Id take him to the RWC of course.

We all know that it'll most likely be Murray Boss and Reddan. Boss's service is just so slow though and age has caught up with Reddan IMO. Maybe he can turn back the years for the RWC but we will need an option that can up the tempo. That's why I am hoping Marmion or McGrath are given a chance to impress in the warm up games.

I do wonder if some of the older guys, like Reddan and even D'arcy have paced through the season and will bring their a games in the autumn?

This thread has destroyed my confidence.

Murray, Murray in a splint and Murray on bucketloads of morphine are our three best options.

But I'll go Murray, Reddan and Boss. Ouch.

Murray and Reddan are nailed on certainties. They are the incumbents with the experience.

The third choice is difficult because there is no stand-out. I think Schmidt will pick Boss because of his style of game, experience and leadership. He also knows Sexton better than any of the remaining candidates (and most of the squad as well). If pressed into emergency service as a utility back his defence is probably better than the rest.

James Hart while offering a goal kicking option has no senior level experience and wouldn't be worth breaking the 'outside ireland non-selection' policy if such a thing exists (same for Stringer now).

Marmion and McGrath are both behind Cooney on recent performances and selection but none have played with Sexton and have hardly played behind Heaslip. Neither has Paul Marshall (nor Williams) and despite being nowhere near as 'bad' as some Ulster fans make out, Marshall does offer exceptional pace. Marshall also knows Jackson's game should he be called into action.

All in all I'd have to agree with Joe and go with Boss.

Ah, after Murray and Reddan it's a wasteland. A barren, soul destroying wasteland.

I went for Boss, much to my own frustration. I had really hoped that Marmion would have overtaken him now. But every Wolfhounds game I've seen where those two guys are sent out to battle it out for the 3rd choice spot Marmion has been seriously disappointing, got replaced early and Boss has come in and improved the service to 10 and the game control.

It's not that Boss has played well in those games, or that I have confidence in Boss, because he's been average and I don't really. But Marmion has been given chances to dislodge him and whiffed his lines nearly every time.

Give Marmion one last chance in the warm-ups perhaps, but I'm not confident he can manage the step up. I wish I was; I had very high hopes for him as an option for this tournament a year or two ago.

Agree on Marmion Notch. He just hasn't looked to have enough quality at the higher level. McGrath might have overtaken him but his service remains annoyingly inconsistent for me. I would really have liked to take a young prospect who would learn from the experience and get a run out from the bench in the pool games, but I wouldn't be convinced any of the above batch would go any further. I might have voted for Cooney if he had been on the list!

Cooney is probably the form 9 around the end of the season and in the Tbilisi cup. Letting him go was another great move by MOC!


Marmion's form fell off a cliff in the second half of the season. I honestly think its down to playing non stop for a few years now. He probably needed a break and should be in the mix for the world cup squad.


It'll come down to who is the best kicker of the ball between Cooney, Boss and Marmion IMO.


I don't see Stringer, Marshall or Williams being involved. I've never seen Hart play so can't comment.

Tomas O'Leary might be in the mix yet. He has the experience to close out a game at least.

Why are we not considering Stringer. So far the only other arguments to the idea have been, he's been out of the international scene for too long and that Premiership rugby is slow because people don't go into the breakdown which doesn't make any sense at all.

The guy is quality.

Had a bad period in the middle of the season but came out all guns firing afterwards.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Why are we not considering Stringer. So far the only other arguments to the idea have been, he's been out of the international scene for too long and that Premiership rugby is slow because people don't go into the breakdown which doesn't make any sense at all.

I said the premiership is slow and the breakdown isn't much of a contest not because of. The referees are stricter on counterrucking and contesting the breakdown which means a lot of penalties and also less pressure on the 9 compared to international rugby.

Stringer is too old, too weak and too slow for the international game - he can't even do 80min for Bath and Ford didn't give him a contract for next year. He can't tackle any more and is ok as long as he avoids contact, which wouldn't be possible for Ireland.

I have a lot of admiration for how well he's gone at Bath but his time has passed at international level.

I picked Marmion in Lieu of Cooney not being there. I don't think Boss or Reddan can be expected to care a game if Murray was out injured, at least in Cooney we have a player who has performed really well in 2015 and was a standout in the Emerging Ireland side. I say give him a shot in the Autumn and if he does well there he goes. I don't believe in this going with the devil you know business.

Murray goes without saying and I never wanted to see Reddan in an Irish shirt and that still stands. He's a liability at best IMO.
Marmion and Boss were my choice for backups simply because there's little else and I'm a Bossy fan also I will not vote for Reddan....have I made that clear enough

Well we have seen a fair bit of our options culled due to the squad announcement.

No Stringer, no Marshall, no McGrath, no Conney, no Williams.

Just watching the Ireland Wales game from this years 6Nations and Reddan has been awesome. Anyone who wants a look check this out from 60mins when Reddan comes on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_GCjyPzZTI

I went for Murray, Marmion and Reddan.

Boss is an awful 9 I think.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Just watching the Ireland Wales game from this years 6Nations and Reddan has been awesome. Anyone who wants a look check this out from 60mins when Reddan comes on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_GCjyPzZTI

He was but his form has nosedived since - he's been awful for Leinster over the last few months.

Wouldn't disagree but Boss has been in the same bad form and has rarely if ever played well for Ireland.

Marmion has buckets of potential too and could really come in to his own in the world cup

Honestly - Boss has been better than either Reddan or Marmion this season.

He gets a bit of a raw deal Boss - his physicality means he never gets turned over and is a strong defender. His distribution can be frustratingly slow at times but the same could be said of Murray. He's past his best too though but the younger guys haven't stepped up.

He seems to be higher rated by SH coaches which says a lot about what he brings.