Players who can play more than one position effectively?

On another thread me and fes got into a discussion about locks who could play back row. This got me thinking of other players who can play multiple positions well, either fowards or backs. This can't just be playing 6 and 8 or loose head and tight head.

The one person who I think can do this well at both test and club level is Courteney Lawes, who can play both second row and 6. Austin Healy would be another who got played pretty much everywhere by both England and Leicester. However people often think it can hold a player in getting selected for national honours.

Anyone got any other players who have can play multiple positions well.

I always thought Alun Wyn Jones would be an excellent number 8. Paul James as a prop who can play both sides.

If we're talking about any position, then there are a few currently who can do this.

Adam Ashley-Cooper is a very decent outside centre as well as covering the back three. Berrick Barnes can play 10 or 12 equally well in my view, and of course Giteau can play from 9-12 (although not as good at scrum half).

For Ireland Earls plays outside centre and anywhere across the back three (including 15), and Bowe has shown himself a very good outside centre as well as a winger.

England have Banahan (playing wing and either centre positions), and Croft (although he's not really a top class lock). Stevens covers both sides of the scrum, as does Corbisiero.

Paul James covers both sides of the scrum for Wales, and Hook can play 10, 12, 13 or 15.

Scotland have Paterson (10, wings or fullback), Laidlaw (plays 9 or 10 at club level), Hines (a good lock and an average blindside) and Sean Lamont (12, 13 or wing).

Most sides have versatile players. The real key though is finding a player who is equally good in several positions, and there are very few of those.

Paterson is very average in any other position apart from full back, and I think the same about Earls and S Lamont.

James O'Connor, Keith Earls and John Smit

Well Hook can play 10, 12, 13 & 15, as can Henson. Ryan Jones plays 5, 6 & 8, as does J Thomas.

Plenty of players cover 2 positions

There are a high number of wingers who can play FB and vice versa but not sure that's such a change. The French have several and now (with Laidlaw) Edinburgh have players who switch between SH and FH. Hook of Wales seems pretty versatile as is Sean Lamont.

Think back about 1980 we had a prop (Brewster) who started out as a flanker. There was also Richie Dixon who I think played for Glasgow as both centre and flanker.

Because of the law changes over the last 20 years it has become easier for back 5 forwards to rotate and also for Hookers and Props to switch, I don't really see that as being overly flexible.

Not including guys picked for a one off game due to injury or panic.

As I said above, the real trick is finding players who can play several positions equally well. That rules out the likes of Ryan Jones.

I agree that Paterson is a 15 first and foremost, but I think Lamont can play centre just as well as wing personally, and likewise I think Earls is equally good at wing or fullback (and pretty decent at 13).

The best example I can think of at the moment is Ashley-Cooper. Excellent at 13 or 15, two quite different positions.

Only outside centre for Lamont, really did not impress me too much at inside.

Is'nt Digby Ioane the same for aus as AAC?

Sean OBrien was awarded MOTM ar 6,7 and 8 in the Hcup this year.

Don't think Ioane can play 15.

There are a few that can play 6 and 8, but yes, SOB is in limited company being able to cover the entire back row well (Haskell is another who has done so).

Certainly wing and centre though for Ioane.....

Medart can play wing, fullback and since last weekend have proven he could finish his career in the backrow (great counter rucking againt clermont)

Lawes hasn't played that much 6 in reality, and certainly isn't as effective there as he is in the second row. It's useful that he can provide backup across a couple of positions, but with the depth in the backrow I don't think it should even be considered in an England capacity.

Healy is the classic example of a utilty back who's versatility was a blessing and a curse: jack of all trades, master of non. There are far many more examples of this scenario than there are of guys who could genuinely play multiple positions to equal effect. Look at the very best players - I can't think of a single player who could be discussed in that bracket who would not be considered an out-and-out specialist in their position.

There is a difference between can play in different positions and being equally good in every position played. One way of looking at would be to ask if they could be picked on merit in each position with all other players fit. I am not sure there are that many using that criterion.

Tomas O'Leary has played every position from 9-15. He won MOTM when he played outhalf away against the Ospreys about 2 years ago (having started at SH, but Warwick got injured and the only other outhalf cover was a very green AIL outhalf). He was just amazing that night.

EDIT: I should have added that Munster actually won that game.

I wouldn't mind having that Tomas O'Leary back again.

Schrodinger's Cat - agreed. I can't think of a single one, actually (unless you start talking about very similar positions, as mentioned above)

I seem to remember Richie McCaw Playing No 8 for Crusaders when coming back from injury last season, for a small lad who's not that fast he had a smashing game, can't remember the opposition, but Whitelock played 7 that day,

Very few Props can switch sides effectively, being such a specialised position, but in saying that, am I correct in saying that 'The Beast' (SA Loosehead) is a converted back row forward, now there's a change in position.

then there's John Smith, who converted from hooker to tighthead.

don't know anything about the girls so will offer no opinion from 9 through 15

I think that with each position being so specialised it is hard to imagine any, except the most exceptional players being equally capable in two or more different (as discussed by others) positions.

Sin é wrote:Tomas O'Leary has played every position from 9-15. He won MOTM when he played outhalf away against the Ospreys about 2 years ago (having started at SH, but Warwick got injured and the only other outhalf cover was a very green AIL outhalf). He was just amazing that night.

EDIT: I should have added that Munster actually won that game.

I wouldn't mind having that Tomas O'Leary back again.

He's not even a good scrum half

leinsterbaby wrote:

Sin é wrote:Tomas O'Leary has played every position from 9-15. He won MOTM when he played outhalf away against the Ospreys about 2 years ago (having started at SH, but Warwick got injured and the only other outhalf cover was a very green AIL outhalf). He was just amazing that night.

EDIT: I should have added that Munster actually won that game.

I wouldn't mind having that Tomas O'Leary back again.

He's not even a good scrum half

Would you read the last line of my post.

So what you want him to play out half? A position he hasn't played in a long time. That's a great idea. I hope he plays outhalf for Munster too.

Sin é wrote:I wouldn't mind having that Tomas O'Leary back again.

i.e. the current Tomas O'Leary is nowhere near his 2009 level. Which, was excellent.

I'm pretty sure Matthew Tait has started for England at all of 11, 13, 14 and 15. Also Jason Robinson did (I think his game in the centre was against Italy). Lewsey certainly played all the back 3 positions.

The French have long had the tendency to consider their half-backs as interchangable, so players like Michalak can play either 9 or 10.

Is it Andy Titterall that alternates between hooker and open side flanker?

Oh, and going back a good few years, JPR Williams played as a flanker for the Lions in a midweek match.

red_stag wrote:James O'Connor, Keith Earls and John Smit

Not so sure that John Smit is a very effective tight head, he does a little better on loose head, but still struggles.

I would add to the pot.

Frans Steyn, Flyhalf, Inside center and fullback.
GIo Aplon, Wing and Fullback
Ruan Pienaar, Scrumhalf and Flyhalf
Butch James, Flyhalf and inside center
Danie Rossouw, Lock, Flanker and eightman

Oh and Francois Hougaardt, scrumhalf and Wing.

Biltongbek - he also plays at hooker too.

Hehe, yes, I thought that was obvious.

On the South African theme, Brits pretty much played every position on the park against Leicester at the weekend!

Rossouw and F Steyn are particularly good calls. Equally good in several quite different positions.

I still think more game time should be given to both Roberts and Halfpenny at XV.

For me I would love to see a back three of

North
Roberts
Hlafpenny

Bedford I would prefer 15 - Halfpenny - 14 - North and 11 - Roberts also coming into the midfield more. Roberts is slow over the first 10-15 yards and I think he will be found out at FB, his kick is also dubious whereas 1/2p is lightening over the first few yards and elusive with a great kick. I just think that Jamie would try to batter his way out from the back which would be a disaster. I know he's shorter but I also think he's good under the high ball with Jamie alongside for back up there

In France the scrum half and outhalf seem to be interchangeable. Michalak, Ellisalde, Yashvilli have all played 9 and 10 for club and country (I think?).

If you move Roberts away from centre though, who would fill in? Who is there behind Davies and Roberts? Hook is now set at 10, and I've always thought Bishop was nothing more than average.

Someone mentioned Tait. He is the epitome of a player who has been ruined by his versatility. Supposedly so talented that he could play any of the outside back positions, he's then proceeded to play all over the park and not get any serious gametime in one position to be considered a specialist. As a result, he is viewed as a 'good utility option' for the England squad, rather than the world class 13 he might have been if his coaches had the balls to show him that faith and allow him to develope his game at OC.

I think Fran Steyn has gone/is going the same way: everyone looks at the guy and appreciates that he has world class attributes, but he hasn't nailed down a position as his own (partly due to injury, I know).

The world class players will always be specialists in their positions. Tell me a single player who is:

a). World class (i.e of proven test match quality)
b). As effective in one position as he is in another

(and not 6's who can play 8 or vice-versa, although even this would be tricky)

What about Mauro Bergamasco - flanker and scrum half!

I do realise that is possibly a bit unkind to him. I have great respect for him for attempting it even though he must have known he would be completely out of his depth.

As I said above, Adam Ashley-Cooper is the best I can think of.

One of the best outside centres in the game currently, but also one of the best fullbacks. He plays 13 now because Beale is so good, but were Beale injured, I suspect AAC would move to 15 and Ioane or Horne to 13.

leinsterbaby wrote:Sean OBrien was awarded MOTM ar 6,7 and 8 in the Hcup this year.

O Brien cannot play at 7

6 yes and even better at 8 but 7 no way

Tayto wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Sean OBrien was awarded MOTM ar 6,7 and 8 in the Hcup this year.

O Brien cannot play at 7

6 yes and even better at 8 but 7 no way

He is good enough to be awarded MOTM in a Heineken cup game and against Munster in the ML at 7 so O think while it may not be his strongest position he is actually quite an accomplished 7.

Re doubting Earls' ability to play across the backline. While his success at 11 is plain enough to see, it is interesting to note that during the *2010* 6Nations campaign, Irelan's most effective rugby was produced when he was twice forced to play at 13, once when D'Arcy went off injured and the other when POC took out BOD.

Jump forward 12 months and Ireland best game of the tournament was when Earls played at FB and he had an excellent game that day too. While that game was won up front by a monumental effort from the pack and the control of Sexton for 70mins and then ROG pinning the English back for the last 10, there is no way that Earls 'flukes' all of these good perfromances (individual and collective) when not playing 11.

I've always felt that Wally could have been a very good No.8 for both Munster & Ireland and with his ball carrying and a more 'traditional' 7, the EOS era could have produced more. Obviously today he is still an effective player and can do the dirty unglamourous work too. Again no fluke he was MoM on Saturday.

As far as genuine international class in significantly different positions, Tim Rodber was a great back row who developed into a very solid lock. Otherwise you have to look at Michael Jones moving from being the best ever 7 (at least until McCaw) to being a world class 6.

Kind of get the point about Tait being a victim of his versatility, but I think that's also because he (and Chris Patterson sufferes in a similar way) is not a perfect fit for any of the positions - lacks the power to be a great 13 (although you'd possibly have argued the same about BOD when he started, and he's gone on to be one of the great defensive 3/4s), isn't well enough attuned to the positional side of being a winger, and has struggled at fullback in knowing when to kick and when to counter.

On Tait I think we'll see him re-emerge as an international centre next season once he's had 6 months at Leicester. It looks to me like one of the shrewdest bits of business I've seen in a while from Leicester. Great replacement for Hipkiss, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see Tuilagi on the wing opposite his brother eventually.

Dummy half, I take all of your points about Tait, but we'll never know - now - the player he might have been if given the opportunity to specialise:

He might lack the power to be a great 13, but - as you say - that's a criticism that has been levelled at the likes of BOD and Conrad Smith at various times in the past...

He might lack the positional awareness to be a winger, and the decision-making capability of a fullback, but these are most certainly things that a player learns through playing a position week-in, week-out.

Players are ruined when coaches mess about with their postions. The way the English domestic game is played (and any other domestic league, really) creates a natural need for the strong utility player who can be called-upon to plug a gap in the depths of January and help get the result. But this does not equate to being a top-level international, where absolute specialism is required to be the very best in a given position

Are there any other props that cover hooker and vice versa? I can only think of the following

Mullan
Brookes
Smit
Afoa

Shane Williams used to be a scrum half who got converted to wing quite late in his career.

Andrew Lewis started his career for Wales at loose head and finished at Hooker for Cardiff.

Spencer John started off as a tight head but finished as a loose head.

Craig Quinell started off as a Blindside flanker but ended up at Lock.

Chris Wyatt started off at number 8 but finished up as a lock.

Gareth Thomas, was capped at 15, 14, 13, 12, 11 for Wales.

Gavin Henson has played Full Back, Wing, Centre and fly Half.

James Hook has played Centre, Full Back and Fly Half.

Jason Leonard played both sides of the scrum for England.

Fredrico Mendez played both props and Hooker for Argentina at various times.

It is often a case of adapting to your teams requirements,A.c Wallace star Full back for the 1905/6 Originals All Blacks was comfortable in the back line anywhere.The NZ 5/8 skill set meant all there players were at least capable at 10,12,15.Wingers often moved inside as they got older,Umaga,Nonu as examples.Dan Carter played,10 ,12,15 for All Blacks at odd times and briefly Wing and Scrum half.Colin Slade and Stephen Brett had to play else where for Crusaders when DC was at 10.There are many cases of in betweeners,who were too light or too short to play as regular locks.Brian Lochore,Troy Flavell,Frik Du Preez as examples all greats or near greats.Sometimes specalist loosies play right/left instead of open /blind or because of a team plan.Kel Tremain often packed at 8 on a n attacking scrum with John Graham at 7 ,and vice versa on a defensive scrum on the 1063 tour.Rodney O,and Keiran Read are 6`s picked at 8 for the All Blacks .Most All Black loosies are comfortable at 6,7,8.In the past props have played at number 8,Ian Clarke,Wilson Whineray for example,Most Hookers could do a fair job as a loose forward and so on.Micheal Jones was great at 7 and 6 after injury slowed him down,likewise Richard Hill.Dougie Howlett,David campese,Cory jane,Isreal dagg,Christian Cullen,Serge Blanco all wings who could play FB or vice versa.

Hook started as a scrum half. Should have left him there.

Umaga was an excellent winger and centre.
Piri Weepu is probably the best or 2nd best halfback for NZ and probably the 2nd best 1st five right now.
Sean Fitzpatrick often covered hooker and ref in the same game.

Watch out for Jarred Hoeata.
Playing lock and 6 for Highlanders.
Bolter for the RWC
Will replace Thorn next year.
Tough, good around the park and can tackle!

I notice a lot of people are posting people who have been thrown into another position as a once off. Surely we are looking for people who actually are a viable option in numerous positions.

red_stag wrote:I notice a lot of people are posting people who have been thrown into another position as a once off. Surely we are looking for people who actually are a viable option in numerous positions.

Dunno if you are talkin about Hoeata but he sure is viable. Lock and 6.