Fury vs Klitschko

by sab275 Tue 30 Jun 2015, 9:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well... This is looking to be made in the near future.Thoughts? I admittedly wrote Fury off in the past, but he's really looked impressive recently. A big guy, with a good jab. It ll be tough but he ll make a fight of it.

by **ShahenshahG** Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:11 pm

by shenglong2015 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:26 pm

Steffan wrote:Will you not be cheering on your fellow Irishman Sheng for this fight?

My love for the Irish fighter is well documented on these pages in bygone years, and I still have a fondness for my fellow countrymen.

However, I remember Tyson Fury being intereviewed a while back, he was in a gym and on the background of the walls there were some great paintings of the likes of Muhammed Ali, Larry Holmes, Joe Frazier, George Foreman et al

And the interviewer asked how Fury felt when he looked at those paintings, expecting perhaps a word about their greatness but instead he replied "I would whoop any of their arses, any time"

In the same week they interviewed Wlad Klitschko, he was in a study, in the background a book shelf, laced with Boxing DVDs and Books, he was telling the interviewer about his adoration for the old fighters, how he loves watching Rocky Marcianos old fights, and reading books on Ken Norton, and Sonny Liston, quite a measured man.

Taking stock of their two attitudes, its hard to defend Fury and his constant rants and his attitude to our heroes from yesteryear.

I hear Truss, amongst others, saying that Tyson Fury winning the titles would be best for the Heavyweight division, I just dont think they have realised how difficult it will be listenening to Tyson Fury should the unthinkable happen - it will be painful, and simply hard to stick.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:26 pm

shenglong2015 wrote:Does anyone really believe that apart from height that Fury holds any advantages over Klitschko?

My post from previous:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Fury's advantages over Wlad:

Height
Reach
Weight
Recovery
Bravery

Wlad's advantages over Fury:

Speed
Defence
Footwork
Power
Accuracy
Experience
Stamina/conditioning

Shared disadvantages:

Chin

So basically Wlad has all the advantages in the key areas. Fury's chance (and he does have one) is based around bravery for as long as he lasts and Wlad not being able to bully/wrestle him like he did Pov, for example.

They share a disadvantage of suspect chin, the key differences however are:

Fury has been dropped by feather-fisters Cunningham & Pajkic whereas Wlad was wiped out by a serious banger like Sanders;and
Wlad has learnt how to protect his chin, Fury hasn't.

Fury's got a chance, it won't last just a round or something silly, but Wlad is pretty nailed on to take the KO at some point.

by TopHat24/7 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:29 pm

hazharrison wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:Does anyone really believe that apart from height that Fury holds any advantages over Klitschko?

Footwork, fitness, jab, power, even chin are favouring WK.

We can all remember the days when Fury was floored by Nevan Pajkic and Steve Cunningham. I simply cant see how Fury wins this one, he doesnt even have home advantage either, so a KO is a must.

Gotta go with Wlad on this one folks.

Fury's younger, hungrier and technically better inside (Wlad has next to no inside game - apart from cuddling). He's more versatile and probably the gutsier of the two. Those are the advantages I'd say he holds over Klitschko.

How do you know hes hungrier? "probably" gutsier isnt really backing your convistions is it Haz?

Probably has a better toastie maker. Hardly facts.

How does anyone know anything?

Does anyone really contest that a young, unbeaten heavyweight stepping in to the biggest fight of their life is likely to be hungrier than an old champion who's been in this situation a couple of dozen times before? If so then I think you're grasping at straws somewhat.

And I'd argue that Fury is the gutsier of the pair (from what we've seen of them to date).

Judging by their waistlines, if Fury is 'hungrier' it's for Big Macs not boxing glory. It takes a lot more hunger to keep yourself in peak physical condition throughout a long career than it does to be a cumbersome chubster with little interest in conditioning and happy to just turn up and wing it.

Though, in this respect I guess you are right, Fury is indeed the 'gutsier' of the two.....

by shenglong2015 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:30 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:Does anyone really believe that apart from height that Fury holds any advantages over Klitschko?

My post from previous:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Fury's advantages over Wlad:

Height
Reach
Weight
Recovery
Bravery

Wlad's advantages over Fury:

Speed
Defence
Footwork
Power
Accuracy
Experience
Stamina/conditioning

Shared disadvantages:

Chin

So basically Wlad has all the advantages in the key areas. Fury's chance (and he does have one) is based around bravery for as long as he lasts and Wlad not being able to bully/wrestle him like he did Pov, for example.

They share a disadvantage of suspect chin, the key differences however are:

Fury has been dropped by feather-fisters Cunningham & Pajkic whereas Wlad was wiped out by a serious banger like Sanders;and
Wlad has learnt how to protect his chin, Fury hasn't.

Fury's got a chance, it won't last just a round or something silly, but Wlad is pretty nailed on to take the KO at some point.

Recovery is a good one, I suppose theres plenty of evidence backing that one, and I'm not tryng to provoke, just wondering how Fury edges bravery?

by shenglong2015 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:33 pm

Agreed Tophat, how on earth anyone can come to the conclusion that Fury is hungrier over a dominant champion who has obviously showed his hunger time and time again, not to mention keeps himself in top shape nearing 40 is beyond me.

by Steffan Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:41 pm

Look...Fury is going to win. Is that a fact...yes. And for Klitschko it could be a very painful one

by TopHat24/7 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:42 pm

[quote="shenglong2015"]

TopHat24/7 wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:Does anyone really believe that apart from height that Fury holds any advantages over Klitschko?

My post from previous:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Fury's advantages over Wlad:

Height
Reach
Weight
Recovery
Bravery

Wlad's advantages over Fury:

Speed
Defence
Footwork
Power
Accuracy
Experience
Stamina/conditioning

Shared disadvantages:

Chin

So basically Wlad has all the advantages in the key areas. Fury's chance (and he does have one) is based around bravery for as long as he lasts and Wlad not being able to bully/wrestle him like he did Pov, for example.

They share a disadvantage of suspect chin, the key differences however are:

Fury has been dropped by feather-fisters Cunningham & Pajkic whereas Wlad was wiped out by a serious banger like Sanders;and
Wlad has learnt how to protect his chin, Fury hasn't.

Fury's got a chance, it won't last just a round or something silly, but Wlad is pretty nailed on to take the KO at some point.

Recovery is a good one, I suppose theres plenty of evidence backing that one, and I'm not tryng to provoke, just wondering how Fury edges bravery?

Wlad wiped out and failed to avenge his losses, getting big bro to do the job. Fury gets dropped a fair bit but always gets up and goes for it.

Wlad is a boxer not a fighter. Fury is the reverse.

by Mr Bounce Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:51 pm

The only chance I see is for Fury to apply constant pressure on Klitschko to back him up with an attempt to land the big one and also to have a referee who has no truck with any of Wlad's holding silliness.

The thing is I don't believe he has the talent to do it. I think he'll get drawn into fighting Wlad's fight and will do something silly like walk onto a jab and fall over. Whilst I would like to see someone take Wlad's titles, I don't want it to be Fury even though he's from Britain. I think the guy is a first class plank and I have not seen anything from him that makes me think he can win. People say Wlad's chinny but his defence is such that's nobody's decked him in 10 years - Fury's power is lacking, he is ponderous and he won't dent Wlad unless he gets incredibly lucky.

I can only see this going one way - Fury will be in no position to continue according the ref by the end of the 5th. I reckon he'll be down at least 4 times too.

In an alternative universe, Wlad throws caution to the wind and wipes him out in round 1.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:51 pm

To be honest only the individual knows how hungry they are...

We do know that Wlad is rightly the favorite..........Also know the last decent fighter that took it him, got in shape and punched straight made him look like a chump...

by Steffan Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:52 pm

Mr Bounce wrote:The only chance I see is for Fury to apply constant pressure on Klitschko to back him up with an attempt to land the big one and also to have a referee who has no truck with any of Wlad's holding silliness.

The thing is I don't believe he has the talent to do it. I think he'll get drawn into fighting Wlad's fight and will do something silly like walk onto a jab and fall over. Whilst I would like to see someone take Wlad's titles, I don't want it to be Fury even though he's from Britain. I think the guy is a first class plank and I have not seen anything from him that makes me think he can win. People say Wlad's chinny but his defence is such that's nobody's decked him in 10 years - Fury's power is lacking, he is ponderous and he won't dent Wlad unless he gets incredibly lucky.

I can only see this going one way - Fury will be in no position to continue according the ref by the end of the 5th. I reckon he'll be down at least 4 times too.

In an alternative universe, Wlad throws caution to the wind and wipes him out in round 1.

You're crazy

by shenglong2015 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:52 pm

Point taken, although we have yet to see if Fury will avenge any of his losses....once bitten and all that, bravery can sometimes be stupiditys ugly brother.

Have seen guys like Fury suffering losses before and disappearing, or fighting on and being a shadow of themselves, after one heavy fight.

He always strikes me as one of those characters, that one bad loss could be enough to ruin Fury IMO.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:54 pm

shenglong2015 wrote:Point taken, although we have yet to see if Fury will avenge any of his losses....once bitten and all that, bravery can sometimes be stupiditys ugly brother.

Have seen guys like Fury suffering losses before and disappearing, or fighting on and being a shadow of themselves, after one heavy fight.

He always strikes me as one of those characters, that one bad loss could be enough to ruin Fury IMO.

Who have you seen like Fury disappearing mate ??

by shenglong2015 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 5:57 pm

Truss you keep saying about punching straight, out of all the boxing coaches, technicians and fighters that Wlad has faced no one has worked this out in the last 10 years?

Only Truss knows the answer sitting typing on the 606v2 forum? And has decided to tell us the key to beating the World Heavyweight Champion?

C'mon mate, its gonna take more than repeattedly hitting the "X" button on your playstation, maybe its a glitch on your "Fight Night Round 4" game?

by shenglong2015 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 6:00 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:Point taken, although we have yet to see if Fury will avenge any of his losses....once bitten and all that, bravery can sometimes be stupiditys ugly brother.

Have seen guys like Fury suffering losses before and disappearing, or fighting on and being a shadow of themselves, after one heavy fight.

He always strikes me as one of those characters, that one bad loss could be enough to ruin Fury IMO.

Who have you seen like Fury disappearing mate ??

Seen George Foreman disappearing.

Seen Mike Perez never being the same again after his heavyweight fight with that russian geezer

Bernard Dunne after his loss to Poonsawat

If you want I could send you a portfolio but you will have to give me a bit of time, say next week? I'll have it on your desk by next week, is that okay boss?

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 6:01 pm

You think coaches couldn't work Tyson, Louis, Leonard and Ali out ???

It's okay spotting weaknesses another thing exposing them......

Already said I pick Wlad..............However....He comes in straight and doesn't move his head..

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 6:02 pm

"I've seen fighters like fury disappearing before ...."

"George Foreman"..

okay mate..

by Steffan Tue 07 Jul 2015, 6:10 pm

Ali disappeared as well. He beat Zora Folley and didn't fight for over 3 years after that

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 6:14 pm

Steffan wrote:Ali disappeared as well. He beat Zora Folley and didn't fight for over 3 years after that

Jimmy Hoffa too disappeared after taking on the mafia......

In fairness to the guy like Hagler he didn't make the mistake of coming back..

by Strongback Tue 07 Jul 2015, 6:22 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You think coaches couldn't work Tyson, Louis, Leonard and Ali out ???

It's okay spotting weaknesses another thing exposing them......

Already said I pick Wlad..............However....He comes in straight and doesn't move his head..

Everybody knows Ali couldn't see a left hook to save his life.

by hazharrison Tue 07 Jul 2015, 6:57 pm

shenglong2015 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:Does anyone really believe that apart from height that Fury holds any advantages over Klitschko?

Footwork, fitness, jab, power, even chin are favouring WK.

We can all remember the days when Fury was floored by Nevan Pajkic and Steve Cunningham. I simply cant see how Fury wins this one, he doesnt even have home advantage either, so a KO is a must.

Gotta go with Wlad on this one folks.

Fury's younger, hungrier and technically better inside (Wlad has next to no inside game - apart from cuddling). He's more versatile and probably the gutsier of the two. Those are the advantages I'd say he holds over Klitschko.

How do you know hes hungrier? "probably" gutsier isnt really backing your convistions is it Haz?

Probably has a better toastie maker. Hardly facts.

How does anyone know anything?

Does anyone really contest that a young, unbeaten heavyweight stepping in to the biggest fight of their life is likely to be hungrier than an old champion who's been in this situation a couple of dozen times before? If so then I think you're grasping at straws somewhat.

And I'd argue that Fury is the gutsier of the pair (from what we've seen of them to date).

Yes I contest it.

Klitschko's hunger and desire in unquestionable to be at the top so long, always in shape, a dedicated athlete, who I know has a real love for boxing.

I will not go into the reason why I dont think Fury is as "hungry" or "dedicated" to the sport.

I dont think any straws are being grasped at all.

Moreover I feel you are looking for reasons why Fury will win, and coming up short, and beginning to paint Tyson Fury as some sort of decenet challenger when in effect he is no different from any previous foe other than his height as I stated before.

I don't think Fury will win. I merely pointed out what I feel his advantages are (he has a few). Fury will be training harder than he's ever trained in his life. For Wlad, it's just another day at the office. This is why I've suggested Fury will have more hunger (which is being confused with dedication).

If Fury goes down, he'll get up. His hunger and ambition will drag him up. If Wlad hits the deck he may very well stay there - he's had a long old career. His hunger and ambition is unlikely to be at the same level it was when he went for his first title.

by Hammersmith harrier Tue 07 Jul 2015, 7:03 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:Does anyone really believe that apart from height that Fury holds any advantages over Klitschko?

My post from previous:

TopHat24/7 wrote:Fury's advantages over Wlad:

Height
Reach
Weight
Recovery
Bravery

Wlad's advantages over Fury:

Speed
Defence
Footwork
Power
Accuracy
Experience
Stamina/conditioning

Shared disadvantages:

Chin

So basically Wlad has all the advantages in the key areas. Fury's chance (and he does have one) is based around bravery for as long as he lasts and Wlad not being able to bully/wrestle him like he did Pov, for example.

They share a disadvantage of suspect chin, the key differences however are:

Fury has been dropped by feather-fisters Cunningham & Pajkic whereas Wlad was wiped out by a serious banger like Sanders;and
Wlad has learnt how to protect his chin, Fury hasn't.

Fury's got a chance, it won't last just a round or something silly, but Wlad is pretty nailed on to take the KO at some point.

Recovery is a good one, I suppose theres plenty of evidence backing that one, and I'm not tryng to provoke, just wondering how Fury edges bravery?

Wlad wiped out and failed to avenge his losses, getting big bro to do the job. Fury gets dropped a fair bit but always gets up and goes for it.

Wlad is a boxer not a fighter. Fury is the reverse.

I think Wlad getting up off the floor three times against the big hitting Samuel Peter showed a level of resillience and guts that Fury has yet to show, getting up off the floor against Cunningham isn't a positive it's a negative. Wlad wouldn't be put on the floor by Cunningham or Pajkic in the first place.

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 07 Jul 2015, 7:59 pm

Any top quality heavy shouldn't be on the floor three times against Peter.....

Fury going down against Cunningham is even worse....But let's face it Fury's only chance is to land early and being three inches taller and fighting against a guy who comes in straight and doesn't move his head he has a chance to do that...

Yep there is wishful thinking involved in my analysis... but I did see Wlad rocked by a jab in the fight before last...and I don't think you need to be George Foreman to send him over..

by Steffan Tue 07 Jul 2015, 8:13 pm

by hazharrison Wed 08 Jul 2015, 6:36 am

Fury was really caught bang on by Cunningham and had to recover from a worse position than Klitschko. While Peter was a more formidable puncher than Cunningham, he was never clocked cleanly (I believe if Peter could have landed flush, he'd have won the fight).

Fury was also badly hurt by Pajkic and Firtha (though Pajkic didn't floor him), again caught square on due to a lax guard.

Peter Fury has largely corrected the defensive laziness inherent on both the Pajkic and Firtha fights. When he boxes to orders, he's a far more difficult fighter to catch clean.

One aspect that's been overlooked is Fury's work rate. While he doesn't have a muscular physique, he's fitter than he looks and can fight at a good clip - certainly at a higher pace than Klitschko is used to.

by **rodders** Wed 08 Jul 2015, 9:21 am

Can see this being a scrappy fight with Fury looking to tie Klitscho up and work him on the inside - wrestle and rough him up.

Fury has a good jab and reach advantage but don't think he wins at distance.

Can see either a scrappy points win for Wlad or else a KO if he can catch Fury coming in.

Don't see any way Fury wins this as he doesn't have the power to get a KO and can't see him getting a decision in Germany.

by **ShahenshahG** Wed 08 Jul 2015, 9:39 am

Yeah because the location is the reason he won't get the decision

by Scottrf Wed 08 Jul 2015, 9:48 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Heavyweight title is the premier title in the sport............It's the blue riband usually when heavyweight boxing thrives it carries the rest of the sport with it...

At the moment it's being hidden away in Germany..

That's why I believe the Klits are bad for the sport..

Hidden away in front of filled out stadiums and terrestrial TV whereas the Yanks don't turn up for anyone not named Mayweather or Pacquiao.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 08 Jul 2015, 10:14 am

Yep...

by RanjitPatel Wed 08 Jul 2015, 11:31 am

Wlad deserves all the plaudits for longevity that he musters but I'd love to see someone take the titles from him to spice the division up. People would be interested in the division again.

However, Fury isn't the man to do it. I wish he was as I like the guy and most of the vitriol he gets is for people taking what he says seriously when it's all just wind ups. He admitted that and came across very well on this forums podcast a couple of years ago. I want him to win but always thought his downfall would come against a puncher. He's shown heart getting up in the past but won't have been hit as hard as Wlad hits him.

To be honest, I'd still fancy Price to beat him and would make Joshua a favourite. Fury's not ready for Wlad and never will be. On that note on the radio yesterday Duke McKenzie asked two presenters if they'd stick Joshua in with Fury now and they both said yes but wouldn't send him near Wlad for another year at least. I agree and that says it all about Fury's chances.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 08 Jul 2015, 11:40 am

Price is the biggest joke in the division....

Gassed after a couple of rounds against a 42 year old..............

I just want him to fight Joshua, Wilder or Wlad and then go and work on a building site somewhere..

Heavy boxing would be a laughing stock If Price can get buried off Thompson twice and pick up a slice..

by RanjitPatel Wed 08 Jul 2015, 11:47 am

I don't think Price will ever win a title but I would still fancy him to beat Fury. I might be in the minority on this but feel a puncher always beats Fury. He just doesn't have the chin.

I picked Thompson to beat Price and won a tidy bit of money on them so am aware of his deficiencies too. Don't think Fury can stop Price with one shot though whereas I do the other way.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 08 Jul 2015, 12:32 pm

RanjitPatel wrote:I don't think Price will ever win a title but I would still fancy him to beat Fury. I might be in the minority on this but feel a puncher always beats Fury. He just doesn't have the chin.

I picked Thompson to beat Price and won a tidy bit of money on them so am aware of his deficiencies too. Don't think Fury can stop Price with one shot though whereas I do the other way.

Won't have to knock Price over................Just wait till the third round when he's knackered.....and jump on him..

by TopHat24/7 Wed 08 Jul 2015, 12:43 pm

shenglong2015 wrote:Point taken, although we have yet to see if Fury will avenge any of his losses....once bitten and all that, bravery can sometimes be stupiditys ugly brother.

Two unoffical losses, John MaccyD & Chisora, were both 'avenged' comprehensively.

by Steffan Wed 08 Jul 2015, 12:47 pm

Fury would stop Price within 6-8 rounds. I am still waiting to see any evidence of Fury not having a chin. Yes he has hit the canvas but he got back up and won. Lots of fighters such as Naseem and Calzaghe got knocked down. This doesn't exactly make you a chinless wonder

by hazharrison Wed 08 Jul 2015, 1:05 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
shenglong2015 wrote:Point taken, although we have yet to see if Fury will avenge any of his losses....once bitten and all that, bravery can sometimes be stupiditys ugly brother.

Two unoffical losses, John MaccyD & Chisora, were both 'avenged' comprehensively.

I agree on McDermott but Chisora? Fury beat him well in their first fight. The decision wasn't disputed (which is a miracle for a boxing match).

by TopHat24/7 Wed 08 Jul 2015, 1:50 pm

Ok, Chis wasn't really a disputed resulted, more that he was highly favoured until weigh-in and his fat-bastardness was seen as the reason for the loss. First few rounds he gave Fury major issues and was winning, but the lazy tub of lard couldn't last, so Fury won.

by hazharrison Wed 08 Jul 2015, 2:51 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Ok, Chis wasn't really a disputed resulted, more that he was highly favoured until weigh-in and his fat-bastardness was seen as the reason for the loss. First few rounds he gave Fury major issues and was winning, but the lazy tub of lard couldn't last, so Fury won.

Chisora had a decent second round but Fury controlled the opener and was quickly back on track in round 3. Chisora came alive in the 10th but that was about it.

by Scottrf Wed 08 Jul 2015, 2:54 pm

Chisora really only upped the pace a couple of times and both times Fury looked absolutely hopeless.

by TopHat24/7 Wed 08 Jul 2015, 2:57 pm

Exactly. So the thinking was if Chis had trained in the gym not McDonalds he could have kept up the pace and got the job done. So he lost more than Fury won.

Either way Fury was comprehensive in the return.

by AdamT Wed 08 Jul 2015, 3:02 pm

It is a disgrace, how many of these heavyweights, that look like they just stepped off a bar stool, or out of KFC!

Boxing is always picked as one of the most gruelling sports. Too many fat messes in the heavyweight division. BMI clinically obese.

by hazharrison Wed 08 Jul 2015, 3:04 pm

Scottrf wrote:Chisora really only upped the pace a couple of times and both times Fury looked absolutely hopeless.

Well he landed a couple of decent digs on Fury in rounds two and ten. Fury was wide open back then. He isn't these days (under Uncle Peter).

Fury is a different fighter almost every time out: reckless/careful, fat/fit, boxer/banger.

by Scottrf Wed 08 Jul 2015, 3:08 pm

Southpaw/Orthodox. Some really shoddy switch-hitting.

Not saying he connected with masses but Fury didn't look like he could deal with it. Style wise not particularly relevant for a Wlad fight though.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 08 Jul 2015, 3:10 pm

Wladivostock is 39...............As I always say with Manny and Mayweather when you hit a certain age... sometimes the well becomes dry......

If Fury does give him a good scrap and Wlad looks shot.....Hopefully Josh will be moved quicker..

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