Great News - Barnes will not be reffing any Ireland pool games...

First topic message reminder :

...unless a scheduled ref mysteriously retires or steps down at the last minute again. I predict he will be given Ireland's quarter though if we get there.

List of ref apointments here:

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/78669

The appointments for the knock-out stages will be made after the pool stage.

Irelands record under Barnes in the last 10 years:

Match List:

Sources:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/mar/24/england-referees-elite-panel
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/pascal-pape-appeals-10-week-ban-for-kneeing-jamie-heaslip-1.2120489
http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsguru/rugby/stats/index.html?class=1;orderby=date;spanmin1=01+jan+2005;spanval1=span;team=3;template=results;type=team;view=match
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7370102/Henry-suspected-match-fixing-after-07-loss

Sin é wrote:

Poorfour wrote:Barnes has cost Quins a few games, too. But Conor O'Shea recently said that given a choice of all refs he would happily have Wayne referee all our games.

That says more about the standard of refs in the Aviva.

WB is nowhere near as dodgy as Walsh was. But he has very specific things he looks for, especially in the scrum and breakdown, and sometimes misses other things as a result .

Personally , I prefer Poite's style of refereeing a sequence of events. But to each his own.

Walsh had improved a lot in recent years. Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

I've seen Pro 12 matches, my cat could officiate better than most of the referees I've seen in that league, particularly the Scottish ones.

The issue here seems to be that Ireland have been particularly bad at adjusting their play to suit Barnes's style. Not that he's a bad referee. He certainly isn't a bad referee, he's one of the best by a lot of people's standards, but teams failing to understand his style isn't his fault.

So Barnes is a complete anomoly for Ireland as they are well able to adjust for all other refs? Something doesnt add up. He is completely inconsistent. That is his fault. Ireland v Wales he reffed the first half very differently to the second in my opinon. There are lots of examples of his inconsistencies. Bury your head in the sand if you wish. I dont see how a guy who went to school in Wales should be involved in Wales games anyway.

One of the reasons Barnes is a poor ref, in my opinion, is that he lacks consistency. By that I mean he will be whistle happy for much of the 1st half, making some very harsh calls, and then relax with the whistle and penalise less the second half. If an apparent infringement is worth blowing up at all, it is worth doing so consistently.
If you look at the last Ireland v Wales game, Barnes penalised Ireland for the slightest infringement, whether they should actually have been penalised at all is another debate, and later on when Wales were guilty of committing the same infringements Barnes ignores and allows them to play on.
You can see how that may be interpreted as bias. I don't think it necessarily is though. I think it's just how he refs. Ireland should be wise to this, they're not, and so the fault of losing that game lies with them.

Munchkin wrote:One of the reasons Barnes is a poor ref, in my opinion, is that he lacks consistency. By that I mean he will be whistle happy for much of the 1st half, making some very harsh calls, and then relax with the whistle and penalise less the second half. If an apparent infringement is worth blowing up at all, it is worth doing so consistently.
If you look at the last Ireland v Wales game, Barnes penalised Ireland for the slightest infringement, whether they should actually have been penalised at all is another debate, and later on when Wales were guilty of committing the same infringements Barnes ignores and allows them to play on.
You can see how that may be interpreted as bias. I don't think it necessarily is though. I think it's just how he refs. Ireland should be wise to this, they're not, and so the fault of losing that game lies with them.

Exactly. There was a period of about 40 phases in the second half when Ireland was pounding at the Wales defensive line and Barnes couldnt find his whistle. By contrast in the opening 20 minutes when Wales had all the posession Barnes penalised Ireland multiple times in short sucession for similar things that he completely ignored in the second half. That in my mind seperated two fairly similar teams on the day.

He is a terrible ref and it is a real shame he didnt retire for business reasons too.

I just feel that every team has that one ref that they seem to loose the majority of games officiated by that ref.

I genuinely do believe that Barnes is one of the best ref's around, he just seems to officiate a lot of Irelands games where they lose and I don't believe that it is entirely up to him all the time. Like all ref's he makes some dodgy calls and he can be overly picky at the start of games but I do not believe that he is biased against Ireland.

eirebilly wrote:I just feel that every team has that one ref that they seem to loose the majority of games officiated by that ref.

I genuinely do believe that Barnes is one of the best ref's around, he just seems to officiate a lot of Irelands games where they lose and I don't believe that it is entirely up to him all the time. Like all ref's he makes some  dodgy calls and he can be overly picky at the start of games but I do not believe that he is biased against Ireland.

Graham Henry called him a cheat in his autobiography. Joe Schmidt asked for clarification on a number of his calls after the Wales game. Its quite rare for Schmidt to question referees and for Henry to call anyone a cheat.

GunsGerms,

I just go by what I see and when I see him refereeing other nations, I have no issue with him. When he referee's Ireland he looks bad. I tend to put that down more to me watching through green tinted glasses.

Thats fine but there are lots of cases where he has been very inconsistant to the extent that a former manager calls him a cheat. I cant think of a time this has happened before. Graham Henry suggested that Wayne Barnes may have even been involved in match fixing and used the term as "blissful purity" to describe the IRBs policy not to investigate bizarre matches or anomolies such as the one Henry referenced in the '07 WC. I think a similar attitude exists amongst rugby fans at times. Personally I think Ireland's record under Barnes in particular how twice in Grand slam deciding games involving Ireland the scheduled referee Steve Walsh has dropped out at the last minute for Barnes to step in merits closer consideration. Yet given the history of inconsistencies I find it staggering that some people consider him to be even a good ref.

I don't doubt Barnes' integrity or quality as a referee but when so much of the laws of rugby come down to interpretation, sometimes you're going to come across a referee who interprets things in a way which disproportionately affects your team. He's got a certain style of refereeing which is extremely bad for teams that like to compete at the breakdown. There is zero latitude at all for anything that could be construed as an offence, even if it is completely accidental or common practice. In many ways he's the opposite to Nigel Owens who tends to judge the intent of the player and let the game flow whenever possible as opposed to pedantically applying the laws as harshly as possible. Both styles have their detractors, I'm sure you can guess which way I lean.

I would have rather got our game with Barnes out of the way in the group stages to be honest. But as much as I dislike being reffed by Barnes, I dislike this idea he (or any ref) is being corrupt or unfair to a team just because of the way he interprets the laws even more. It's complete nonsense and saying he should retire is extremely childish. We have to adapt to him when we have him; the best teams take the referee out of the equation. Barnes is never, ever an excuse or a reason for us to lose a game; he's refereed enough test matches that there is plenty of opportunity to study how he referees games and prepare for him.

Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Sin é wrote:Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

Should Rolland not ever have reffed internationals involving France then?

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

simply not true.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

He didn't mind it so much in the 2nd half,that's the problem.There was a couple of instances in the first half where he penalised Ireland and when PoC questioned him he said the player wasn't interfering with the ball but was on the wrong side so it was a penalty.In the 2nd half there were a few instances where the Irish scrumhalf pointed out Welsh players on the wrong side and Barnes quite clearly can be heard saying the ball is available so play on.That is inconsistent.

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

simply not true.

With respect it is.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

He didn't mind it so much in the 2nd half,that's the problem.There was a couple of instances in the first half where he penalised Ireland and when PoC questioned him he said the player wasn't interfering with the ball but was on the wrong side so it was a penalty.In the 2nd half there were a few instances where the Irish scrumhalf pointed out Welsh players on the wrong side and Barnes quite clearly can be heard saying the ball is available so play on.That is inconsistent.

Not really as by then Wales were really tryingt o get out of the way first half neither were. Its gone now both sides know what not to do if it happens again there s only your team to blame.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

simply not true.

With respect it is.

It isn't. Barnes shafted Ireland with penalising the slightest infringements. Sure Wales were penalised at times in the first half, but nowhere near to the same extent as Ireland. I have no problems with that. Ireland should have caught on to Barnes early in the game. They didn't. It is the inconsistent second half that angers others. It is the fact that he didn't penalise Wales for the exact same infringements that he did Ireland, early in the game. Had Barnes been consistent then the outcome of the game may have been different. Still, as I said, I don't blame Barnes for Ireland losing. Ireland just weren't wise enough to deal with Barnes early.

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

simply not true.

With respect it is.

It isn't. Barnes shafted Ireland with penalising the slightest infringements. Sure Wales were penalised at times in the first half, but nowhere near to the same extent as Ireland. I have no problems with that. Ireland should have caught on to Barnes early in the game. They didn't. It is the inconsistent second half that angers others. It is the fact that he didn't penalise Wales for the exact same infringements that he did Ireland, early in the game. Had Barned been consistent then the outcome of the game may have been different. Still, as I said, I don't blame Barnes for Ireland losing. Ireland just weren't wise enough to deal with Barnes early.

They were penalised less by 1 and picked up a yellow in the first. At least 2 of the wales infringements were for not rolling away. Blaming inconsistencies in the 2nd I can see the argument for but they were different in my view as I ve said above.

For consistency Id say Owens is 1 oft he worst but iss till a good ref but then again I dont think theres a bad 1 in the top tiers of the international game. They do a bloody hard job very well for most of the time.

Wales were penalised, but if you check the penalties awarded against Ireland you will find that there was no need to penalise them all. Some of those penalties were ridiculous. Especially some of those for not rolling away.

No 7&1/2 wrote:For consistency Id say Owens is 1 oft he worst but iss till a good ref but then again I dont think theres a bad 1 in the top tiers of the international game. They do a bloody hard job very well for most of the time.

Barnes is cr@p. Owens can have his moments too, but he is nowhere near as bad as Barnes. Don't get me started on Hodges

In the end the players always make more mistakes than the ref.

This is true, but teams should be responsible if they lose games. Not refs.

I probably sound like I have a major issue with ref's now. I don't. It is a difficult and often thankless job and one that fans generally don't appreciate.




I still don't like Barnes though

Carping on about referees is a complete waste of time. I couldn't give a fig who is reffing which match. This nonsense about referees styles and getting used to them is just excuse-making.

Referees and their assistants make mistakes - that's rugby, that's life.

Next there'll be a discussion about the shape of the rugby ball and how that will affect teams....

Pot Hale wrote:Carping on about referees is a complete waste of time.   I couldn't give a fig who is reffing which match.   This nonsense about referees styles and getting used to them is just excuse-making.

Referees and their assistants make mistakes - that's rugby, that's life.

Next there'll be a discussion about the shape of the rugby ball and how that will affect teams....

I wouldn't agree. With Barnes or Clancy, you know it's going to be a bit stop start. With Owens you know the game will likely flow a bit. I much prefer Owens ........ unless we are playing Munster....

Actually to be fair to Clancy I think he is trying to let the game flow a bit more. Based on the last couple of games I have seen him ref anyway.

Munchkin wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Carping on about referees is a complete waste of time.   I couldn't give a fig who is reffing which match.   This nonsense about referees styles and getting used to them is just excuse-making.

Referees and their assistants make mistakes - that's rugby, that's life.

Next there'll be a discussion about the shape of the rugby ball and how that will affect teams....

I wouldn't agree. With Barnes or Clancy, you know it's going to be a bit stop start. With Owens you know the game will likely flow a bit. I much prefer Owens ........ unless we are playing Munster....

Actually to be fair to Clancy I think he is trying to let the game flow a bit more. Based on the last couple of games I have seen him ref anyway.

It's just a big yawn to me. Who cares who's reffing? It's the performance of the team that counts - and winning.

Pot Hale wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Carping on about referees is a complete waste of time.   I couldn't give a fig who is reffing which match.   This nonsense about referees styles and getting used to them is just excuse-making.

Referees and their assistants make mistakes - that's rugby, that's life.

Next there'll be a discussion about the shape of the rugby ball and how that will affect teams....

I wouldn't agree. With Barnes or Clancy, you know it's going to be a bit stop start. With Owens you know the game will likely flow a bit. I much prefer Owens ........ unless we are playing Munster....

Actually to be fair to Clancy I think he is trying to let the game flow a bit more. Based on the last couple of games I have seen him ref anyway.

It's just a big yawn to me.   Who cares who's reffing?    It's the performance of the team that counts - and winning.  

True and true, but I would think allowing a game to flow, allowing momentum to build, gets the best performances out of teams whilst allowing for a more entertaining game.

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

Should Rolland not ever have reffed internationals involving France then?

Rolland didn't go to school in France. He went to school in Dublin. He represented Leinster & Ireland.

And no other team had a problem with him reffing them. Before the death threats he was the best ref in the world.

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

Should Rolland not ever have reffed internationals involving France then?

Rolland didn't go to school in France. He went to school in Dublin. He represented Leinster & Ireland.

And no other team had a problem with him reffing them. Before the death threats he was the best ref in the world.

But what about his French parentage and all the time he spent in France?

Nah mate. Wayne Barnes has probably been the best in the world since 2007 .

Barnes is a quality ref, always very happy to get him at Falcons as he's very consistent.

We don't tend to win that many with him reffing(we don't tend to win that many full stop) but I certainly can't blame Barnes for this.

Sometimes you've got to accept its not ref but you're team that aren't performing.

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

Should Rolland not ever have reffed internationals involving France then?

Rolland didn't go to school in France. He went to school in Dublin. He represented Leinster & Ireland.

And no other team had a problem with him reffing them. Before the death threats he was the best ref in the world.

But what about his French parentage and all the time he spent in France?

Nah mate. Wayne Barnes has probably been the best in the world since 2007 .

FYI - Barnes only went to sixth form in Wales, a whopping 2 years! And nobody really considers Monmouth as part of Wales anyway . Nice try though.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Barnes is a quality ref, always very happy to get him at Falcons as he's very consistent.

We don't tend to win that many with him reffing(we don't tend to win that many full stop) but I certainly can't blame Barnes for this.

Sometimes you've got to accept its not ref but you're team that aren't performing.

What if your team is performing when reffed by anybody else?

Notch has it right. Every team seems to have refs whose wavelength they just don't get.

For England, it's Joubert. For Ireland, it's Barnes . For Australia, it's probably Poite.

That doesn't imply bias. Every senior referee has a ref coach, and they review every match; too many mistakes and they drop off the panel (as Barnes did at one point).

It's also a very hard job to do to everyone's satisfaction .Even as a mini-rugby ref I have been sworn at and accused of cheating (and that in a practice match with nothing to play for). Some fans will see whatever they want.

P.s. I exclude Walsh from this analysis on the basis that a referee should as a minimum know what a legal bind looks like.

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

Should Rolland not ever have reffed internationals involving France then?

Rolland didn't go to school in France. He went to school in Dublin. He represented Leinster & Ireland.

And no other team had a problem with him reffing them. Before the death threats he was the best ref in the world.

But what about his French parentage and all the time he spent in France?

Nah mate. Wayne Barnes has probably been the best in the world since 2007 .

You seem to know all the details. Where in France is his father from (his mother is Irish and he grew up in Ireland)?

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

Should Rolland not ever have reffed internationals involving France then?

Rolland didn't go to school in France. He went to school in Dublin. He represented Leinster & Ireland.

And no other team had a problem with him reffing them. Before the death threats he was the best ref in the world.

But what about his French parentage and all the time he spent in France?

Nah mate. Wayne Barnes has probably been the best in the world since 2007 .

You seem to know all the details. Where in France is his father from (his mother is Irish and he grew up in Ireland)?

Wasn't his father from Paris, and isn't his middle name Pierre?

Seriously though, I think the refs were put in extremley difficult situations in 2011, after dumping Ireland out of the RWC, and facing France a half French, half Irish ref was the exact wrong decision to make on ref choise!!!

Similar instances happened with Nigel Owens reffing a group game that couldve dumped Wales out.

The Saint wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

Should Rolland not ever have reffed internationals involving France then?

Rolland didn't go to school in France. He went to school in Dublin. He represented Leinster & Ireland.

And no other team had a problem with him reffing them. Before the death threats he was the best ref in the world.

But what about his French parentage and all the time he spent in France?

Nah mate. Wayne Barnes has probably been the best in the world since 2007 .

FYI - Barnes only went to sixth form in Wales, a whopping 2 years! And nobody really considers Monmouth as part of Wales anyway . Nice try though.

He played rugby in Wales in probably his 2 most formative years. Considering his age, he probably played in the same schools competitions as most the Welsh teams.

Barnes is undoubtedly a poor ref. and not just for Ireland. He was removed from the elite panel because his performances weren't up to standard as judged by his peers. He has undoubtedly affected the outcome of games and has little empathy with players.

His inconsistency isn't rooted in bias though just his own interpretation of how to referee a game. He likes to lay down the law early (for both sides) and then tries to let the game open up in the second half. He is the opposite of a referee that can studied and planned for because his own level of consistency from game to game is er... inconsistent.

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

He didn't mind it so much in the 2nd half,that's the problem.There was a couple of instances in the first half where he penalised Ireland and when PoC questioned him he said the player wasn't interfering with the ball but was on the wrong side so it was a penalty.In the 2nd half there were a few instances where the Irish scrumhalf pointed out Welsh players on the wrong side and Barnes quite clearly can be heard saying the ball is available so play on.That is inconsistent.

Should have penalised your 9 for bellyaching so much then. He's not the captain. SOB too when he squeaks up about something.

Risca Rev wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

He didn't mind it so much in the 2nd half,that's the problem.There was a couple of instances in the first half where he penalised Ireland and when PoC questioned him he said the player wasn't interfering with the ball but was on the wrong side so it was a penalty.In the 2nd half there were a few instances where the Irish scrumhalf pointed out Welsh players on the wrong side and Barnes quite clearly can be heard saying the ball is available so play on.That is inconsistent.

Should have penalised your 9 for bellyaching so much then. He's not the captain. SOB too when he squeaks up about something.

A bellyaching 9? That's so unusual. Almost unheard of I would say.

Here are some thoughts on the referee appointments.

Group A (England, Australia, Wales, Fiji and Uruguay). In my view referees from Group A nations (e.g. England or Wales) should referee these matches. Additionally no referee from one of the Group B nations (i.e. South Africa) should referee a game that might directly influence their nations opponents in the quarters. Key games affected, Australia v Wales (Joubert). You end up with a situation where Group B rankings should be known, Assuming South Africa finish 1st their opponents could be determined, given the potential closeness of this group the 2 qualifying teams, and South Africa semi finalist opponents could also be determined. Joubert is a fine ref, but a French, NZ or Irish ref would have been more appropriate.

Group B (South Africa, Scotland, Samoa, USA and Japan). In this instance Games involving South Africa with Samoa and Scotland are refereed by referees from Group A nations and the key game for determining the second qualifier is refereed by South African. South Africa should know if they finish 1st, in this case their potential semifinal opponents could be determined by one of their own referees. If they somehow lost a game Peyper could determine their fate. Peyper shouldn't be put in this position, a French, NZ or Irish ref would have been more appropriate. I don't think English and Welsh refs should control SA's games against Scotland and Samoa.

Group C (NZ, Argentina, Tonga, Georgia, and Namibia). It's not to bad. It would be better if French referees weren't involved. The saving grace is that the NZ games against Tonga and Georgia should be a gulf to great for the minnows.

Group D (France, Ireland, Canada, Italy, Romania). The big question is why was an Irish man selected to referee an Italy v Canada match or a French referee the Italy v Ireland game. Either side could beat France and French qualification or winning this group could be dependent on this last game. Not good enough.

GunsGerms wrote:

Munchkin wrote:One of the reasons Barnes is a poor ref, in my opinion, is that he lacks consistency. By that I mean he will be whistle happy for much of the 1st half, making some very harsh calls, and then relax with the whistle and penalise less the second half. If an apparent infringement is worth blowing up at all, it is worth doing so consistently.
If you look at the last Ireland v Wales game, Barnes penalised Ireland for the slightest infringement, whether they should actually have been penalised at all is another debate, and later on when Wales were guilty of committing the same infringements Barnes ignores and allows them to play on.
You can see how that may be interpreted as bias. I don't think it necessarily is though. I think it's just how he refs. Ireland should be wise to this, they're not, and so the fault of losing that game lies with them.

Exactly. There was a period of about 40 phases in the second half when Ireland was pounding at the Wales defensive line and Barnes couldnt find his whistle. By contrast in the opening 20 minutes when Wales had all the posession Barnes penalised Ireland multiple times in short sucession for similar things that he completely ignored in the second half. That in my mind seperated two fairly similar teams on the day.

He is a terrible ref and it is a real shame he didnt retire for business reasons too.

So you managed to completely ignore the fact that somebody else, in fact a few, have stated that it is their opinion that it is up to Ireland to manage Barnes's refereeing style. This is the exact point I made. Since you didn't question Munchkin's posting, you must presumably agree with all of it?

Risca Rev wrote:

asoreleftshoulder wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Roll away quickly and not in the way/path of the scrum half. its not rocket science.

That's fine as long as it's consistent. Barnes wasn't. I also think some of his penalising Ireland for not rolling away was incredibly harsh. Ridiculously so. I can understand why some question his impartiality, even if I don't agree.

Both teams got it in the neck 1st half and then made genuine efforts to clean up their act. They know he doesnt like people on the wrong side.

He didn't mind it so much in the 2nd half,that's the problem.There was a couple of instances in the first half where he penalised Ireland and when PoC questioned him he said the player wasn't interfering with the ball but was on the wrong side so it was a penalty.In the 2nd half there were a few instances where the Irish scrumhalf pointed out Welsh players on the wrong side and Barnes quite clearly can be heard saying the ball is available so play on.That is inconsistent.

Should have penalised your 9 for bellyaching so much then. He's not the captain. SOB too when he squeaks up about something.

Does that work both ways,should he have penalised the Welsh players who were complaining in the 1st half,instead of penalising the Irish players?

Players in the first half weren't necessarily interfering with the ball but were in the way of the scrum half, couple of instances where they rolled into the path of the incoming 9. 2nd half they weren't doing either (if the example you're thinknig of is right at the start of the 2nd).

I'm thinking of several examples all through the 2nd half,either they were in the way of the 9 and made no effort to move just spread their arms and lay there or they rolled and conveniently moved over the ball blocking the 9 for a second before getting out of the way.

Fair enough, we see things differently.

This forum has taught me that rugby fans are like religious nuts, no matter how much evidence you provide, no matter how much reason you use, you are definately wrong, because No!

We are all as bad as each other, and cn only possibly see what we want, no matter what actually happened!

Probably because the rules are so complex you can always pick 2 or 3 things as infringements. Why I generally like to give the benefit of the doubt especially over a game.

eirebilly wrote:GunsGerms,

I just go by what I see and when I see him refereeing other nations, I have no issue with him. When he referee's Ireland he looks bad. I tend to put that down more to me watching through green tinted glasses.

I put it down to the fact that he hates Ireland. He's the same with provinces, he does everything he can to ensure Irish teams lose.... so its not a case of adapting to him as he will penalize Irish players at every opportunity.

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The Saint wrote:

Sin é wrote:Barnes is a poor communicator and talks at players. He should never ref internationals involving Wales as he went to school there.

Should Rolland not ever have reffed internationals involving France then?

Rolland didn't go to school in France. He went to school in Dublin. He represented Leinster & Ireland.

And no other team had a problem with him reffing them. Before the death threats he was the best ref in the world.

But what about his French parentage and all the time he spent in France?

Nah mate. Wayne Barnes has probably been the best in the world since 2007 .

You seem to know all the details. Where in France is his father from (his mother is Irish and he grew up in Ireland)?

But I was including all the holidays he had in the French Riviera though... Add all them up and it works out over 2 years, which is more than the period of time Wayne Barnes spent in the most English part of Wales .