Scotland V USA 27th September

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SCOTLAND V USA
27 September 2015
KO: 14:30 BST
Elland Road, Leeds

Live on ITV

Referee: Chris Pollock
Touch judges: John Lacey, Mike Fraser
Television match official: Ben Skeen

A. Head to Head

4 Played 4
4 Won 0
0 Drawn 0
0 Lost 4

C. Teams

SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 34 caps; 9 tries, 1 pen, 48 points
14 Sean Maitland (London Irish) – 17 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
13 Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 10 caps; 5 tries, 25 points
12 Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps, 1 try, 1 con, 1 pen, 10 points
11 Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 21 caps; 9 tries, 45 points
10 Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps; 2 tries, 2 cons, 14 points
9 Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) CAPTAIN – 16 caps; 4 tries, 20 points

1 Ryan Grant (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
2 Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 90 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
3 Jon Welsh (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps, 1 try, 5 points
4 Richie Gray (Castres) – 47 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
5 Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh Rugby) – 11 caps, 1 try, 5 points
6 Alasdair Strokosch (Perpignan) – 46 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
7 Ryan Bloody Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 12 caps
8 Josh Strauss  (Glasgow Warriors) – 1 cap

16 Kevin Bryce (Glasgow Warriors) – 2 caps
17 Alasdair Dickinson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 48 caps, 2 tries, 10 points
18 Willem Nel (Edinburgh Rugby) – 4 caps
19 Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
20 Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
21 Greig Laidlaw (Gloucester) – 42 caps; 3 tries, 48 cons, 92 pens, 387 points
22 Duncan Weir (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps, 1 try, 6 cons, 9 pens, 1 drop, 47 points
23 Matt Scott (Edinburgh Rugby) – 30 caps, 3 tries, 15 points

USA

(Yes I know she was born in Ukraine but who cares!

1. Eric Fry
2. Phil Thiel
3. Titi Lamositele
4. Hayden Smith
5. Greg Peterson
6. Al McFarland
7. Andrew Durutalo
8. Samu Manoa

9. Mike Petri
10. AJ MacGinty
11. Blaine Scully
12. Thretton Palamo
13. Seamus Kelly
14. Takudzwa Ngwenya
15. Chris Wyles (C)

16. Zach Fenoglio
17. Olive Kilifi
18. Chris Baumann
19. Cameron Dolan
20. John Quill
21. Danny Barrett
22. Shalom Suniula
23. Folau Niua

Other than tattie's over enthusiastic player ratings (as 21st has so eloquently pointed out) I think we've all been pretty much saying the same things.

Thinking back now my opinion at half time wasn't that we needed to sub both props off - Pyrgos and Horne were my biggest concerns - so we're perhaps focussing on that a little too much. Grant showed up well in the loose, but Welsh certainly didn't look good. There's no doubting the difference Dickinson and Nel made though.

Pyrgos improved before he was subbed off but was a bit of a headless chicken in the first half, just trying too hard.

Horne was poor and our midfield defence was ruthlessly targeted. Surely the Horne/Scott debate can be put to bed now - if we struggle against USA we're sure as hell going to struggle against SA and Samoa. Russell missed a number of tackles too. I tried to look up the stats on ESPN but they unhelpfully no longer publish missed tackles. Scott brought a real directness to our play too. I've said it before - Horne's first movement is usually always sideways. I'd still keep him as an impact sub.

Strauss had a quiet first half but grew into the game - let's not forget that was his first start. I think he'll come good when he's not having to carry the back row on his own.

I agree that Swinson put in a decent shift, but the thought of him coming up against the massive bock 2nd rows is just too depressing for a Sunday night.

Impressed with the USA in the first half today. Not too surprised about their performance after watching the USa in the Rugby League World Cup last year. I was listening to an American sports writer on the radio last night and he was saying the sport will get bigger in the USA next year and onwards with the Rugby 7s being in the Olympics.

Weegie Wizard wrote:I'm starting to get annoyed by Richie Gray. He gave away at least half of our penalties today and seems incapable of clearing out at rucks. Now that he has retired from carrying the ball, what else is he there for?

That's why there is a short second row playing at 6. Richie Gray ineffective at clearing out rucks. Also why you won't see much of Strockosh as that will be his role which is why we always think he does nothing.

Stroker to his credit was the first or second guy clearing out at almost every ruck yesterday. My issue with him is that, whilst he rarely missed a tackle, he seems to give a yard or two each time. Obviously there are few teams that are as physical in contact as some of the USA ball carriers but SA and Samoa are.

I think we need Strauss, Hardie and Denton to be our back row in both those games but I don't have much faith in either Stroker or Wilson to keep the same level of intensity when they get subbed on.

I suppose that is the same problem we face throughout the team - our 1st XV are good enough but very few of our bench are.

tigertattie wrote:Ire vs Romania is a bit dull so I'm going to do some player ratings before I go cook myself some dinner.

Stuart Hogg - 4 - terrible game. Worst since his brain fart game v Wales
Sean Maitland - 6.5 - solid enough if unspectacular. Scored a try though
Mark Bennett - 7 - good shift. Decent defence and ran good lines
Peter Horne - 3 - awful. Pointless. Go back to scotstoun
Tim Visser - 6 - see Maitland. Never came looking for work though
Finn Russell - 7 - ran a good game. Hope he heals up
Henry Pyrgos - 5 - bouff. Slow at the ruck. Bad decision making
Ryan Grant -5 - pretty anonymous. Man shamed at scrum time
Ross Ford - 7 - solid. Decent carries. Good defending. Needs to hook though
Jon Welsh - 4 - manshamed at scrums.  Did nothing in the loose
Richie Gray - 6 - started coming into things in the second half. Good shift though for 80 mins
Grant Gilchrist -5 - injured early. Not his fault
Alasdair Strokosch - 6 - did what he does. Nothing in attack
Ryan Wilson - 4 - rotten. Not a patch on brown who is supposed to be a hooker now
Josh Strauss - 5 - very quiet. Struggling at international lvl so far


Kevin Bryce - 5 - not on long enough to do much
Alasdair Dickinson - 8 - fixed the scrums. Worked in the loose. Chased more kicks than Maitland
Willem Nel - 9 - see Dickerson, scored a try too
Tim Swinson - 6 - unspectacular
Fraser Brown - 8 - tackled and carried well. Best 'back rower' by a country mile
Greig Laidlaw - 6 - this what laidlaw does.
Duncan Weir - 6 - played ok when he came on. Scored a try
Matt Scott - 8 - all hail the other messiah. Surely showed he's superior to Horne. Scored a try.

I know I'm biased, but Edinburgh, with help from Fraser Brown, totally turned the game and saved Scotland's blushes

Ah, that explains it. Low blood sugar can affect judgement, perception and capacity to make reasoned decisions.

For example, I should never go food shopping on an empty stomach, as I inevitably return with a large mozzarella, some frankfurters (despite the shop running out of buns), a bag of Haribo star mix and a bottle of crème de cassis. Why? Poor judgement. Similarly, you really shouldn't write player ratings when you haven't had your dinner yet. You'll come out with some pretty ill-judged nonsense.

Hogg was actually rather good and competed well for the high ball, Swinson carried far better than I expected he would, Duncan Weir showed actual panache in attacking the gain line, and Strauss carried all day long. I suspect Strauss would still be carrying now if the referee hadn't told him to go home.

What do all these players have in common? Let me think...

cp10 wrote:

Weegie Wizard wrote:I'm starting to get annoyed by Richie Gray. He gave away at least half of our penalties today and seems incapable of clearing out at rucks. Now that he has retired from carrying the ball, what else is he there for?

That's why there is a short second row playing at 6. Richie Gray ineffective at clearing out rucks. Also why you won't see much of Strockosh as that will be his role which is why we always think he does nothing.

While at the game, it is hard to actually tell - but I thought that Gray was very busy and was the first up tackler at almost ever turn - and he very rarely got pushed back - some of the contacts he made with the USA runners reverberated around the ground

I even commented to people round how I thought Richie had moved from a show pony to a hard working tackle monster

I expect it is hard to clear rucks when you are doing the tackling

I would need to watch on TV, but that is the impression I got when at the game

Gilchrist out of wc. Hamilton?
Russell inversion injury whatever that is..

I thought Hogg had a great game. He fluffed that pass to Visser, however he created the space in the first place from nothing. Was blistering with the ball in hand and solid in the arial battles. Dunno where the low score comes from.

Horne and Pyrgos IMO were trying too hard. I'm not going to bring the daggers out for Horne who IMO still has a lot to offer Scotland. Furthermore I would start him at 10 if we lose Russell. Weir aside from his try is not a great player and hasn't been for some time.

Strauss very quiet IMO. Wilson and Stroks aquitted themselves better.

Finally, Scott, Dickinson and Nel take a bow lads.

Scott and Bennet to start against South Africa.

alive555 wrote:Gilchrist out of wc. Hamilton?  
Russell inversion injury whatever that is..

That lad has absolutely no luck. Rory Lamont/ Sy Taylor syndrome.

Hamilton retired from international Rugby and Toolis is injured.... we now don't have much lock cover.

Bummer about Gilchrist. I haven't been wildly impressed with him, but I'm sure that his bulk is one of the reasons that our scrum has been so stable.

I think that means we can only call on Hardie if Toolis really is injured? Does anyone know the prognosis there?

Hamiltons retired so toolis ?
inversion injury is sprained ankle. Probably a couple of weeks?

Surely we can talk Hamilton out of retiring?

Fairly selfish if your country needs you and you only called it quits in a Liza Minelli-esque hissy because you weren't selected in the first place.

We might soon see how seriously Cotter thinks of Harley as a lock.

Harley is the only option - Ben toolis has just had elbow surgery.

Other than that it's Fraser McKenzie, but its a long time since he's been involved.

Swinson looked very competent when he came on. How he stacks up against those giant South African forwards is another matter.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Swinson looked very competent when he came on. How he stacks up against those giant South African forwards is another matter.

A lot like the image below, I would think (Swinson on the left):

Ah the Glasgow fans rallying round they're team is actually quite sweet!

I don't get folk defending Hogg. Yes it's nice to see him making a break, but if he butchers the oppertunity of a try by throwing a wonky pass, then that's hardly great is it!

"Ahhh but he tried really hard" is the downfall of Scottish Rugby! We need to be acheiving more and expecting more!

Hogg would be the first one to come on here and say he had a bad game by his normal standards!

And someone posted that Horne was "good" in the second half? - Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think Harley seems the sensible option to replace Gilco. At 2nd row we're not too bad with the Grays, and Swinson being first choice and bench cover, and really there are no other choices. I wonder if Hamilton is regretting retiring now.

or way out of left field - Cummings

He's played a couple of games for Glasgow, which cements him in the world class category.

You are assuming that he goes for a like for like replacement. I would not be surprised if he goes for Barclay now and runs with the three second rows we have got. The games are well spread out now and three should do unlesss we pick up another injury, in which case call up Harley. There must be some concern as to how quickly Hardie can come back now and then we have no openside for the games that we need one.

If he is going to pick Harley it will only be as a lock not a blind side. He has nailed his colours to Stroks now in that back up role and to be fair, he did not take a backward step on sunday.

With BVC learn to expect the unexpected.

That's a good point - we could see Barclay or Cowan called up.

RDW_Scotland wrote:That's a good point - we could see Barclay or Cowan called up.

Yes Cowan could be an option as well, I had overlooked him, though probably Barclay on form from the warm up games. We figured at time that others may staill get there chance and we still have the two hardest games in the pool to come.

Sean Lamont in the second row?

tigertattie wrote:Ah the Glasgow fans rallying round they're team is actually quite sweet!

I don't get folk defending Hogg. Yes it's nice to see him making a break, but if he butchers the oppertunity of a try by throwing a wonky pass, then that's hardly great is it!

"Ahhh but he tried really hard" is the downfall of Scottish Rugby! We need to be acheiving more and expecting more!

Hogg would be the first one to come on here and say he had a bad game by his normal standards!

And someone posted that Horne was "good" in the second half? - Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that really worth knocking 6 points off his score?

If a dodgy pass was all it took, then all our players would be in minus 100s

Yes, that was a shocking pass, but he played well in most other areas and was very dangerous

I think you are letting that pass colour your score

PS He got MOM - and I expect it wasn't a Glasgow fan that voted that one......

I think our main problem at scrum time was Pyrgos being too honest with his put ins. He fed absolutely straight every time. Laidlaw and HC can disguise a squint feed much better as they've both fed the Edinburgh front row many, many times.

EWT Spoons wrote:or way out of left field - Cummings

He's played a couple of games for Glasgow, which cements him in the world class category.

Pretty much this. Let's cap him before NZ lure him away and get him on residency

Anyone got a link for tackle stats etc from yesterdays game?

tigertattie wrote:Anyone got a link for tackle stats etc from yesterdays game?

stroker made the most tackles

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/match/14198#stats

alive555 wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Anyone got a link for tackle stats etc from yesterdays game?

stroker made the most tackles

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/match/14198#stats

Well thoses stats seem a little strange

Not one lineout not straight - did they not watch the first half - not one line out completed it seemed!

Riskysports wrote:

cp10 wrote:

Weegie Wizard wrote:I'm starting to get annoyed by Richie Gray. He gave away at least half of our penalties today and seems incapable of clearing out at rucks. Now that he has retired from carrying the ball, what else is he there for?

That's why there is a short second row playing at 6. Richie Gray ineffective at clearing out rucks. Also why you won't see much of Strockosh as that will be his role which is why we always think he does nothing.

While at the game, it is hard to actually tell - but I thought that Gray was very busy and was the first up tackler at almost ever turn - and he very rarely got pushed back - some of the contacts he made with the USA runners reverberated around the ground

I even commented to people round how I thought Richie had moved from a show pony to a hard working tackle monster

I expect it is hard to clear rucks when you are doing the tackling

I would need to watch on TV, but that is the impression I got when at the game

It's the attacking not defensive rucks where the coaches see the deficiencies. They partner Stockosh (or Harley) with him to make up for it. I'm just going on what i've seen with selection not based on me knowing how he performs as watching the attacking breakdown take up a lot of time. Some news site did it for Paul O'Connell during the 6 nations. The guy clears out so many attack breakdowns. Unseen work that needs to be done.

Just watching the game again on TV - and in actual fact - the first 20 mins, we were a lot better than I thought 0 in fact we were quite good

Lots of off loads, attacks, and breaks. Controlled the ball well

Just started the second 20 (When they scored and 20.30 mins) and will update after that

second 20 - again not as bad as I expected - apart from their try, the US did not look like scoring another

We still made a few breaks - just rushed a few things and their tackling was fierce

The scrum, also did not look as bad - not great

But overall - needed some more patience - but was an ok half

You must be bored!

ALways best to watch in on TV as well - looked a lot worst live

Now starting the second half - so will be very relaxed

wooo hooo - try :-)

Another point.....

Russell's tackling, for a smaller guy, is pretty bl00dy good. He seems to stop players dead which is no mean feat.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Another point.....

Russell's tackling, for a smaller guy, is pretty bl00dy good. He seems to stop players dead which is no mean feat.

From memory he missed a lot of tackles in the first half though.

I've still not been able to find missed tackle stats anywhere - ESPN used to publish them.

I would ignore the ESPN stats - it said not line outs lost by either team lol

BTW - Just finished it

Weir really should not have gone for that try, 3 man over lap, and not the % option

But - in case you missed it, we won