Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
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hjumpshoe
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catchweight
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TRUSSMAN66
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Boxing
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Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
1986
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Three champions............Tubbs, Thomas and Spinks.......
January - Remember like it was yesterday debating with guys in High about whether Tubbs speed and footwork would be enough to beat the defensively canny and bigger punching Witherspoon.......Picked Tubbs but it was a 50/50 spread and we all couldn't wait to see what happened... (Witherspoon close decision)
March - We all thought Pinky T was the next great heavy and the talk in high was whether he'd send another message post Weaver to Holmes/ Witherspoon and Spinks that he was the man by stopping the durable and charismatic Berbick........100/0 spread on this fight but it was a fight of interest.....(Berbick close decision)
April - The long awaited rematch between Holmes and Spinks........Would Larry jump on him this time ???.....Was Larry past it ???...What controversial crap would Larry harp on about in the run up ??..Eagerly anticipated rematch.........Probably 80/20 Holmes spread.....(Spinks robbery)......
2015
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Only Two champions........................ and by the way one of them apparently fought last night....
Heavyweight is crap.............Blame the actors and not the directors or the Producers.....
------
Three champions............Tubbs, Thomas and Spinks.......
January - Remember like it was yesterday debating with guys in High about whether Tubbs speed and footwork would be enough to beat the defensively canny and bigger punching Witherspoon.......Picked Tubbs but it was a 50/50 spread and we all couldn't wait to see what happened... (Witherspoon close decision)
March - We all thought Pinky T was the next great heavy and the talk in high was whether he'd send another message post Weaver to Holmes/ Witherspoon and Spinks that he was the man by stopping the durable and charismatic Berbick........100/0 spread on this fight but it was a fight of interest.....(Berbick close decision)
April - The long awaited rematch between Holmes and Spinks........Would Larry jump on him this time ???.....Was Larry past it ???...What controversial crap would Larry harp on about in the run up ??..Eagerly anticipated rematch.........Probably 80/20 Holmes spread.....(Spinks robbery)......
2015
-----
Only Two champions........................ and by the way one of them apparently fought last night....
Heavyweight is crap.............Blame the actors and not the directors or the Producers.....
Last edited by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 27 Sep 2015, 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ..)
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
I actually think there are a few interesting heavies coming up so hopefully within 2 years it will be a more interesting division
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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Location : Worcester
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
wheelchair1991 wrote:I actually think there are a few interesting heavies coming up so hopefully within 2 years it will be a more interesting division
We can but hope............But If Brook and Quigg are anything to go by...............Can't see Eddie doing anything but getting a slice for Josh and finding the stiffest chumps around..
My prediction is they'll be four world champions in two years time..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
I agree with that, ican't see Hearn letting AJ near Wlad even though he's getting older, he will be fighting Wilder or Provetkin i think depending on who holdsthe WBC strap at the time. Aj is highky ranked with them and has been for a while
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Yep....When Wlad goes we'll have three belts on offer.............Unless Fury does him which is what i'm hoping..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Can't see it myself
wheelchair1991- Posts : 2129
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
In the U.S I think the division is screwed. The U.S still produces the athletes but they go into other sports now.
There is a famine of talent out there now but perhaps the European countries can start producing some quality heavyweights. Hopefully we get a few heavyweight versions of Golovkin or Kovalev in the near future.
There is a famine of talent out there now but perhaps the European countries can start producing some quality heavyweights. Hopefully we get a few heavyweight versions of Golovkin or Kovalev in the near future.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
Join date : 2013-09-18
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
The problem is that the heavyweight division, by default will always have the slimmest picking of any division. 6'6 220lbs people don't just walk around. Then you find that the ones that do exist are snapped up by sports where they have a greater chance of success and mental faculty retention.
kingraf- raf
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Any division after say 122lbs
kingraf- raf
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Between Wlad being so dull and none of the top contenders willing to fight each other it really is bad times for the division. Just look at Wlads recent opponents and then look at who they beat to earn a shot. Really is awful.
Tony Thompson only started fighting other decent names after he lost two shots at the crown. Sums it up for me. Areola has fought far better opposition after losing to Vitali. The champ is dull and you only have to beat one top twenty fighter and wait in the queue for him.
Tony Thompson only started fighting other decent names after he lost two shots at the crown. Sums it up for me. Areola has fought far better opposition after losing to Vitali. The champ is dull and you only have to beat one top twenty fighter and wait in the queue for him.
Lance- Posts : 1712
Join date : 2011-10-29
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Deontay isn't a great fighter, but he is decent to watch.
It's a pity Mr Haye got bad injuries. He could of made for exciting fights with Wilder and Noshua.
It's a pity Mr Haye got bad injuries. He could of made for exciting fights with Wilder and Noshua.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
The World Heavyweight title was once the crown jewel of boxing, now its just an embarrassment of a division littered with garbage, what a state its in.
Nico the gman- Posts : 1753
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Doesn't help when you have a clown like David Haye giving people like Audley Harrison a shot and messing Tyson Fury about. Plus there was toe-gate. Hopefully Fury, Wilder and Joshua can make some good fights
Steffan- Posts : 7856
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
catchweight wrote:In the U.S I think the division is screwed. The U.S still produces the athletes but they go into other sports now.
There is a famine of talent out there now but perhaps the European countries can start producing some quality heavyweights. Hopefully we get a few heavyweight versions of Golovkin or Kovalev in the near future.
The 70's and 80's weren't as good as history would make you believe. The world wide tentacles of American proganda, preoccupied with American athletes, is the reason that period is so highly regarded. Better boxers than now? Yes. As good as the hype? No
3fingers- Posts : 1482
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
History hasnt made me believe they were better. I saw them box. I know they were a lot better than the crap around today.
The 80s was not considered a vintage era for heavyweights when I began watching them. The "propoaganda" at the time was mainly how the division was in decline. There was no bigging up the era to be something special witht he exception maybe of Mike Tyson who was genuinely electrifying.
Little did people realise back then how truly terrible the division would really get. Maybe its considered a vintage era now by comparison to the last decade of total crap.
The 80s was not considered a vintage era for heavyweights when I began watching them. The "propoaganda" at the time was mainly how the division was in decline. There was no bigging up the era to be something special witht he exception maybe of Mike Tyson who was genuinely electrifying.
Little did people realise back then how truly terrible the division would really get. Maybe its considered a vintage era now by comparison to the last decade of total crap.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Norton....Foreman.....Ali......Frazier......Shavers......Lyle......Young....Quarry.....Holmes
What an overhyped sack of crap the 70s was...
What an overhyped sack of crap the 70s was...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
The U.S traditionally supplied over 90% of the heavyweight world champions and top contenders.
Now their top 5 heavyweights are:
Wilder
Jennings
Thompson
Arreola
Cunningham
In the case of Jennings and Wilder, these guys failed to make it as american footballer and basketballers. They took up boxing late. Jennings was a part timer until recently.
Thompson is over 40 years old and was never all that good to start with. Cunningham was more of cruiderweight and Arreola isnt much more than a grossly conditioned latino tough guy with a decent punch.
Even from the 1980s, which at the time was considered a decline, the current crop is pretty shocking for country with the U.S heavyweight tradition in the sport. Its unlikely to change either, while all the opportunites lie in track, nfl and basketball.
Now their top 5 heavyweights are:
Wilder
Jennings
Thompson
Arreola
Cunningham
In the case of Jennings and Wilder, these guys failed to make it as american footballer and basketballers. They took up boxing late. Jennings was a part timer until recently.
Thompson is over 40 years old and was never all that good to start with. Cunningham was more of cruiderweight and Arreola isnt much more than a grossly conditioned latino tough guy with a decent punch.
Even from the 1980s, which at the time was considered a decline, the current crop is pretty shocking for country with the U.S heavyweight tradition in the sport. Its unlikely to change either, while all the opportunites lie in track, nfl and basketball.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Who would become a heavyweight boxer nowadays? Given alternate opportunities to make a living, alternate opportunities for hobbies & sports when young. I suppose there is also health & safety regulations plus a lot more knowledge of what the sport can do to the brain. Plus many of the heavyweights nowadays are "super heavyweights" who have a more stationary, defensive method of boxing. Plus the proliferation of world titles to be won - although doesn't really apply that much to the current heavyweight decision given the dominance of Wlad & the klitchkos (Both doctors of sports science I believe).
Guest- Guest
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
In the U.S, only the dregs and leftovers of other sports are becoming heavyweight boxers.
It no longer offers the same way out as it used to. The number of boxing programmes offered by colleges is tiny, sholarships only a tiny fraction compared with other sports and much more safety, financial security and stability offered in other sports.
Wilder and Jennings are good examples of U.S heavyweights who had ambitions to play other pro sports and didnt make it so they took up boxing in their twenties. Both are currently ranked the top two U.S heavyweights in the world now.
It no longer offers the same way out as it used to. The number of boxing programmes offered by colleges is tiny, sholarships only a tiny fraction compared with other sports and much more safety, financial security and stability offered in other sports.
Wilder and Jennings are good examples of U.S heavyweights who had ambitions to play other pro sports and didnt make it so they took up boxing in their twenties. Both are currently ranked the top two U.S heavyweights in the world now.
catchweight- Posts : 4339
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Well, the 'lead actor' would probably deal with 'Tubbs, Thomas & Spinks' as easily as most of the last 20 oppos he's managed fine.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
After the way you lost the plot on wheelies thread on Friday...
Best If I just agree with you...
Best If I just agree with you...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Who is the lead actor?
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Think he's talking about Wlad..
He's never seen Thomas, Tubbs and Holmes we know that..
He's never seen Thomas, Tubbs and Holmes we know that..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
He wouldn't beat Holmes for sure. Not sure about the other 2 Truss. Only seen videos.
Do you really think Tubbs would beat WLad?
Do you really think Tubbs would beat WLad?
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Corrie sanders did just by punching straight..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Yes but Wlad has improved somewhat from then.
It would be similar to knocking Khan for his early loss.
Not satying Tubbs wouldn't win, I didn't start properly watching boxing until early mid 90's.
I know of one particular80's heavy who would smash Wlad in a couple rounds.
It would be similar to knocking Khan for his early loss.
Not satying Tubbs wouldn't win, I didn't start properly watching boxing until early mid 90's.
I know of one particular80's heavy who would smash Wlad in a couple rounds.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
How has he improved......He's never fought anyone that punches straight since..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Awh come on. Everyone knows the divison is bad, but if it were that simple someone could of done it by now.
Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.
Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
So the division is bad but someone could have done it by now..
So you're admitting he's crap then..
So you're admitting he's crap then..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
The world's greatest fear is that in few months we may be swapping the name Wlad for Fury.AdamT wrote:Awh come on. Everyone knows the divison is bad, but if it were that simple someone could of done it by now.
Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.
Fury wins the title and Holmes will come out of retirement along with Bugner and Bruno. Even Smokin' Joe would rise from his grave to take on that chump.
Guest- Guest
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Think he's talking about Wlad..
He's never seen Thomas, Tubbs and Holmes we know that..
Did I say Holmes? Must've missed that.....
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Funny how most say Tyson is overrated because he didn't beat anyone great and you're saying these 80's heavyweight were good.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
DAVE667 wrote:The world's greatest fear is that in few months we may be swapping the name Wlad for Fury.AdamT wrote:Awh come on. Everyone knows the divison is bad, but if it were that simple someone could of done it by now.
Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.
Fury wins the title and Holmes will come out of retirement along with Bugner and Bruno. Even Smokin' Joe would rise from his grave to take on that chump.
Fury does win the Joshua fight will dwarf the Groves - Froch one..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
AdamT wrote:Funny how most say Tyson is overrated because he didn't beat anyone great and you're saying these 80's heavyweight were good.
Tubbs beat Bonecrusher and Page...........Also beat unbeaten Bowe in most peoples eyes...........Look it up..
Witherspoon - Got ripped off against Larry.....Beat Tubbs, Page and Bruno..............
Thomas beat Weaver and Witherspoon..
Learn your history or don't waste my time..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
AdamT wrote:He wouldn't beat Holmes for sure. Not sure about the other 2 Truss. Only seen videos.
Do you really think Tubbs would beat WLad?
Truss has a blinkered misty-eyed view of the 80s. Never can actually explain or justify why those guys would so comfortably deal with a 6'6" 245lb athletic & mobile heavy hitter like Wlad that's cultivated a style under Manny Steward that none have been able to succumb. Despite, apparently, it being as simple as 'punching straight' (let's ignore that it wasn't a straight punch that Sanders took Wlad out with, it was a cross/hook from memory).
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
From what I have seen I would still back Wlad.
Would definitely back his brother to smash the 80's heavies other than Holmes or Tyson.
Would definitely back his brother to smash the 80's heavies other than Holmes or Tyson.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Why who has he beat in their league...????? Who..
Who has he beat with their skill set....
Come back after you've watched them fight.
Who has he beat with their skill set....
Come back after you've watched them fight.
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Don't hold your breath! The empty can rattles the most and Fury made David Haye look like the Dalai Lama at certain points.TRUSSMAN66 wrote:DAVE667 wrote:The world's greatest fear is that in few months we may be swapping the name Wlad for Fury.AdamT wrote:Awh come on. Everyone knows the divison is bad, but if it were that simple someone could of done it by now.
Wlad for all his flaws, is a very dominating heavy. Divison is garbage, but you can only beat what is put in fron of you.
Fury wins the title and Holmes will come out of retirement along with Bugner and Bruno. Even Smokin' Joe would rise from his grave to take on that chump.
Fury does win the Joshua fight will dwarf the Groves - Froch one..
Guest- Guest
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Haye sparring a week before the first fight ..........
Fury looked like Stephen Hawking when he said Haye would bottle out of the second fight too....
Fury looked like Stephen Hawking when he said Haye would bottle out of the second fight too....
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
I have watched them fight in youtube.
So because I didn't live then I shouldn't comment?
You have a strong opinion on Louis vs Ali.
Were you around to see Louis fight? Perhaps your opinion is no more valid than mine on the 80's fighters.
So because I didn't live then I shouldn't comment?
You have a strong opinion on Louis vs Ali.
Were you around to see Louis fight? Perhaps your opinion is no more valid than mine on the 80's fighters.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
All you've got to do to beat the K's is bob and weave, get on the inside and go to the body. How on earth would Vitali Klitschko been able to deal with Tony Tubbs and Greg Page??? being a 6' 7" wrecking machine with an iron jaw isn't going to get you far against those guys.
Mayweathers cellmate- Posts : 685
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
AdamT wrote:From what I have seen I would still back Wlad.
Would definitely back his brother to smash the 80's heavies other than Holmes or Tyson.
Go watch some YouTube videos. I did. Unlikely it'll change your opinion though. As the corollary of Truss standard trumped out argument is who did any of those guys fight/beat akin to Wlad??
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
If you've watched them fight then you'll know they have a pedigree..and are well schooled.....
Wlad has never fought in that league..
Ali beat plenty of fighters as good as Louis..
Wlad has never fought in that league..
Ali beat plenty of fighters as good as Louis..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
"plenty of fighters.......as good as someone I never saw fight"
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Talking about Fury shooting his mouth about his chances of winning. I don't doubt he has belief but even against someone like Wlad, you need a bit more than that and Fury is going to have to fight about three times better than he's ever done before to stand any sort of chance.TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Haye sparring a week before the first fight ..........
Fury looked like Stephen Hawking when he said Haye would bottle out of the second fight too....
Also, didn't know Hawking was famed for his psychic ability!!!!
Guest- Guest
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Truss you and I both know Ali is better.
However the point still stands. If some older guy is arguing with you about it, he could tell you to clear because you have never see Louis fight.
However the point still stands. If some older guy is arguing with you about it, he could tell you to clear because you have never see Louis fight.
AdamT- Posts : 6651
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
Well If we both know ali is better why did you bring it up.............
I saw Tubbs fight on film...I saw Louis fight on film
What a stupid remark...
I saw Tubbs fight on film...I saw Louis fight on film
What a stupid remark...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
And all you have to do to be Mayweather is put him under "intelligent pressure" and not let him dictate the pace of the fight..............Mayweathers cellmate wrote:All you've got to do to beat the K's is bob and weave, get on the inside and go to the body. How on earth would Vitali Klitschko been able to deal with Tony Tubbs and Greg Page??? being a 6' 7" wrecking machine with an iron jaw isn't going to get you far against those guys.
Guest- Guest
Re: Death of the Heavy division - Can't blame the Alphabets !! ......
I think I actually saw the 38 yr old, unmotivated, sluggish Lewis actually miss with a punch he threw at Vitali..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
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