France v Ireland, 11 October

Munchkin wrote:

Sin é wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:By the way, how does it take two weeks to diagnose a fractured foot?

They would have to wait for the swelling and bruising to do down to scan it.

But apparently he was fully involved in training on Wednesday. Not with a fractured foot.

Sin é wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:Again, you fail to show the necessary comprehension skills to grasp points made by individuals as they are written. Try, just as an example, thinking about what has been said not what you think they say.

How you think I haven't shown respect to Keith Earls is one of the most laughable stupid, self indulgent pieces of nonsensical garbage I've seen in this forum yet. No credible person would take that from what I've said.

I didn't mention this missed tackle from four years ago to my knowledge. Be so kind, could you please directly quote where I referred to it? I don't know what this missed tackle is. Furthermore, if this single missed tackle, whatever it is, is not representative of his defensive ability (which of course it isn't- anyone can miss a tackle) then a single good pass against Wales is also not representative of his distribution ability. Payne is consistently better than Earls in that regard, but as I have said above, Earls distribution is perfectly reasonable and better than people give him credit for. Payne is not a world class distributer either.

You posted that losing Payne was close to a disaster. That is disrespectful to Earls.

There was one game in the 6Ns when Payne didn't actually pass or offload once. (in fairness to Payne, it seems to be forbidden anyway).

Sin é wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Sin é wrote:

FecklessRogue wrote:By the way, how does it take two weeks to diagnose a fractured foot?

They would have to wait for the swelling and bruising to do down to scan it.

But apparently he was fully involved in training on Wednesday. Not with a fractured foot.

They didn't see the break when they initially scanned it because of the bruising and swelling and then when that had gone down and he trained, they realised that something else was wrong.

SecretFly wrote:tiny fracture first time, then whilst being worked in renewed training it fully cracked due to renewed stress....

Exiled Gael wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Exiled Gael wrote:Again, you fail to show the necessary comprehension skills to grasp points made by individuals as they are written. Try, just as an example, thinking about what has been said not what you think they say.

How you think I haven't shown respect to Keith Earls is one of the most laughable stupid, self indulgent pieces of nonsensical garbage I've seen in this forum yet. No credible person would take that from what I've said.

I didn't mention this missed tackle from four years ago to my knowledge. Be so kind, could you please directly quote where I referred to it? I don't know what this missed tackle is. Furthermore, if this single missed tackle, whatever it is, is not representative of his defensive ability (which of course it isn't- anyone can miss a tackle) then a single good pass against Wales is also not representative of his distribution ability. Payne is consistently better than Earls in that regard, but as I have said above, Earls distribution is perfectly reasonable and better than people give him credit for. Payne is not a world class distributer either.

You posted that losing Payne was close to a disaster. That is disrespectful to Earls.

There was one game in the 6Ns when Payne didn't actually pass or offload once. (in fairness to Payne, it seems to be forbidden anyway).

That is not what I said. I said that Payne's injury is close to disaster for the defensive organisation of the side. I then went on to state that Earls had massive shoes to fill in that regard (i.e. In terms of defensive organisation not all round play as there are other things Ears is better than Payne) and that Henshaw and Sexton would have to step up.

Therefore my comment about 'close to disaster' (in other words not a complete disaster) was not completely about Earls. Again I refer to my previous comments about a lack of comprehension skills. Since I have now referred to your lack of comprehension skills on more than one occasion and you have failed to accurately refer to the words I have used rather than what you think they mean,  it can reasonably be concluded that you are either (or both) not a credible poster and lack fundamental skills in reading and comprehension.

Again, for a second time, can you refer me to where I have mentioned this missed tackle four years ago? I'd be grateful if you could perhaps clear that up. A direct quote of any of my posts where I mention that incident would be fine.

Sin é wrote:

The criticisms of Earls' defence is informed by one incidence in the past in a warmup game against England prior to the last world cup where Tualigi pushed Earls aside to score a try. Something similar has happened to the great Brian O'Driscoll, but no one would claim his defence was potentially lead to a disaster. Earls defence is no worse than most centres and everything else he brings to the table is probably better.

Exiled Gael wrote:

I'd be very interested to see exactly where Keith Earls has any responsibility for Trimble's hit here?  If you look at the 23-24 second frame Earls doesn't even seem to be looking in Trimble's direction.  He certainly isn't making any physical  gestures towards Trimble and I can't see him shouting to make the hit.  

Again Sin é, I am forced to ask for a THIRD time to directly quote from me where I referred to this apparent missed tackle from four years ago.  You have attempted to tell me where you think my view has been informed by this incident, despite the fact that I had no idea what missed tackle you were talking about.  As you will be aware having clearly closely read what I previously pointed out my criticism of Earls' defence was that he was weak on the left shoulder (and good on his right).  As the Engine#4 has alluded to above, Earls gets his head in poor positions at times because he wants to make a tackle on his right rather than the left.  It no doubt has led to neck and shoulder injuries in the past and will in the future unless he rectifies the technical fault.  So be so kind, please refer directly in my previously posts where I have either explicitly or implicitly referred to this missed tackle against England in a warm up match four years ago which frankly, I don't remember.  If anyone else has a video of it handy I would like to see what it actually is.

ME-109 wrote:The nordy chip on shoulder is well in force tonight

SecretFly wrote:Stop bickering boys and let's simply hope that Ireland find their mojo and start to play with even a pinch of the intensity that either Wales or Australia have used so far in this competition.

Ireland’s conservative game plan will not be enough against the best teams
It’s not unpatriotic to question the lack of a cutting edge in Joe Schmidt’s side’s attack

By the bend in his nose and the fading scar under his now bushy eyebrows, I would guess that, in his day, he was an inside centre. He did not have the “cauliflower ear” trademark of a backrow forward. So maybe 40 years ago, he would have been a tough No 12.

It was outside the supermarket last Monday, the morning after Ireland had scraped home over Italy. There were no “beg your pardons”. He looked up, recognised me and said it straight. “We have not got a chance have we?” He didn’t wait for an answer.

“Keith Earls aside, we can’t break a line to score a try,” he argued. “If we can’t take Italy apart, how are we going to take on France, then New Zealand, or if we are lucky Argentina?” He was now on a roll.

“In Joe we trust!” He spat out the words. “What sort of ‘shi!teology’ is that, to build a World Cup campaign on? He’s a good coach, we all know that, but it seems like he is being held up as the head of a strange cult and we are all supposed to be under his spell. We’re having ourselves on.”

He rolled his eyes. “Anyway, lucky it’s only a game,” he chuckled. “By the way you might tell everyone the truth.” He got back in his car and was gone. The problem with old rugby guys is, mostly, they are right.

I’ve noticed a real change in the atmosphere surrounding the Irish team. The squad is full of fine men. They are excellent role models, wonderful professional athletes and highly dedicated to Ireland’s cause. I know many of them. The country can be very proud of them.

The finest of all is our captain. Paul O’Connell is an icon, and an all time great. He has always conducted himself with great dignity, skill, courage, humour and grace.

Joe Schmidt and his staff are also highly intelligent, successful and admirable men. The country, quite rightly holds them in the highest esteem. As a coach, I regard Joe as one of the world’s best.

But here is my issue. As wonderful and as admirable as the entire set-up is, like us all, they are not perfect. Honest debate, in a mature manner, regarding issues surrounding the team, is actively being discouraged. More than that, anyone who challenges the ‘cult’ is rounded on.

That’s not healthy for rugby and it’s keeping the wonderful Irish rugby public, who support the team so magnificently, in the dark. What makes this veil of silence even more immature is that the obvious errors in the build up to this World Cup are not being addressed.

Predictable Irish attacking structures where players are running across field are being disguised as so called “power plays”. This term alone seems to have mesmerised the Irish rugby community into a false sense of security. In reality they are simply well organised three phase attacking systems. These are not original, nor are they being executed in a manner that is likely to break down well organised defensive systems.

However, in this current cult-like atmosphere, if anyone has the temerity to suggest that things in the Irish team are anything but tickety-boo brilliant, you are accused of being unpatriotic.

Now as far as I know, saying our centres are not breaking tackles is not quite the same as selling secrets to the Russians. Nor is it attacking the man in the jersey, it is a rugby observation.

I can’t quite put my finger on the reasons behind this situation. Maybe the country is just longing to have something good and wholesome, like the Irish rugby team, to cheer about. Maybe amongst the pain of austerity, the brutal truth that Ireland may not be good enough in this World Cup is not a welcome topic.

No matter the reason, at this World Cup, the pinnacle of world rugby, you have to score tries. With rugby returning to the great beauty of the running game, Ireland have been caught on the hop.

In August, Australia scored three tries when defeating New Zealand. When Argentina and Japan defeated the Springboks they scored three tries. Last weekend as they got the better of England, Australia scored three tries.

In Ireland’s last eight games against tier one teams – from the 2014 November Internationals, the Six Nations and this World Cup – Ireland have only scored more than two tries once. That was the win over Scotland in the final game of the last Six Nations. Winning two Six Nations Championships was a fantastic achievement, but in playing a conservative defensive style, Joe may have not prepared a game plan capable of defeating any of the four Southern Hemisphere teams.

Regardless of how deep we go in this competition, and despite the apparent lack of cutting edge, I wouldn’t hesitate in giving Joe a further two-year extension to his contract and secure his services through to the end of the next World Cup. Both Clive Woodward and Graham Henry lost quarter-finals at their first World Cups before winning the next. You have to experience a World Cup to understand it. Joe will be a better coach for the 2015 experience.

France may have too much for Ireland but it will be close. Either way, unless Ireland can find a running game both Argentina and New Zealand seem to be a league above. That is the truth and the truth is never treason.

Cloggie wrote:I can't shake the vision of Keith Earls scoring a hattrick of tries today and Bastareaud to be subbed off at half time. It has history written all over it...

eirebilly wrote:Come off it Rory, Earls has had a couple of unfortunate moments but he has also showed his distribution skills at this RWC.

Sure even the great BOD had some poor moments of decision making but we all remember him with great fondness.

What Earls also brings is very attacking defence, he gets to rucks as much if not more than BOD did.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

I didn't mention his distribution skills, I mentioned his decision making. When to go to ground, when to think about the offload, when to know if it is on or not... these things are a weakness in his game. They are all important traits for a 13.

It is an opinion Billy, you have to accept that people have legitimate reasons and evidence to back up their opinions on Earls/Payne/whatever it is that you may disagree with.

Also, I'm watching the Argentina game here... flip me, we have some serious work to do, even if we beat France.

eirebilly wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

I didn't mention his distribution skills, I mentioned his decision making. When to go to ground, when to think about the offload, when to know if it is on or not... these things are a weakness in his game. They are all important traits for a 13.

It is an opinion Billy, you have to accept that people have legitimate reasons and evidence to back up their opinions on Earls/Payne/whatever it is that you may disagree with.

Also, I'm watching the Argentina game here... flip me, we have some serious work to do, even if we beat France.

I may be wrong here but when you say 'Throwing the ball away like a headless chicken' I would tend to think that would be a description of his distributing skills...

Also, distribution is part good decision making is it not? Earls has shown that as well...

I have no objections with others opinions which is why I countered your post. If you don't like that then I wont counter your posts anymore.

eirebilly wrote:Ok Rory, I apologise for the 'come off it' comment, I just get annoyed with comments like that when describing Earls.

Yes he has made some bad decisions but also some excellent ones (Wonderful pass to Kearney for his try). The fact remains, Earls is Irelands best attacking player and although he will make mistakes (as all players do) he does threaten opposing team and makes breaks.

I just hope that Schmidt has the bollix to make some early calls if required. In this, I am referring to maybe bringing Henderson on early if Irelands forwards aren't getting over the gain line.