How much did player conditioning cause England's RWC downfall?

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Weight can easily be deceptive I agree. Who out of Paul O'Connell (112kg) and Geoff Parling (117kg) carries and tackles better for example.

However one thing has been rather standout for me for a while.... that England's physical conditioning is exceptionally poor. This isn't saying the guys are unfit. Its that they have not been conditioned right for the game, for their position.

People say that talent is lacking in England. Complete BS. Over the last 8 years, they have reached the final of the JRWC 6 times and won it twice. They are not lacking in talent. Yes they may have more funds at junior level but NZ, AUS, SA do to.

Then look at the pack who fielded on Saturday. That is near to a lancaster first choice pack than you could think of. They were man-shamed upfront yesterday. Beaten up. They were done so by Fiji and France before the start of the tournament. Only against Wales with a newby tighthead did they get a little nudge on. England lost 5 penalties to AUS yesterday... it was similar to their 2013 defeat to Wales.

I've had a look at the packs of the major nations at this RWC and the pack size is rather stark.

England's front five was at least 20kg lighter than any other team... yet their backrow was the heaviest of all sides. The balance is nuts. You need big beast upfront to win ball and mobile backrowers to tackle and win possession. England not only have gone opposite to this, they have gone against the grain of every side playing at the moment.

Here is the basic breakdown

ENG
Front 5 - 564kgs
Back 3 - 333kgs
Total - 897kgs

AUS
Front 5 - 590kgs
Back 3 - 326kgs
Total - 916kgs

WAL
Front 5 - 594kgs
Back 3 - 324kgs
Total - 918kgs

SA
Front 5 - 584kgs
Back 3 - 332kgs
Total - 916kgs

NZ
Front 5 - 584kgs
Back 3 - 323kgs
Total - 907kgs

IRE
Front 5 - 583kgs
Back 3 - 326kgs
Total - 909kgs

England looked completely out of sync in all facets of the game. Scrums, Lineouts, rucks. This is in part due to their physical condition and lack of it.

Take Mako for instance. First choice sub as loosehead... again because of workrate and ball carrying over set piece. He's in terrible shape physically for a test match level prop. I myself met and spoke with a current springbok prop just prior to the tournament began. He said that he was conditioned to be about 120kg and have no more than 12% body fat. His club and the boks programmed his training and diet towards these goals and he was heavily regulated. If Mako has a fat ratio of less than 12% then I'm a monkey's uncle (debatable!)

Mako has been in the side for what 2-3 years now? How after all this time can he not be in shape. He's a pro athlete. If he doesn't take this serious then should he really be someone at the summit of English elite rugby? By all accounts he's very talented but at what stage do you say, sorry mate if you want to take rugby seriously, get yourself in order if not you're off the squad.

In the end it comes down to coaching, the way the players see themselves, the standards they set.

Look at Robshaw. If England were serious about him playing openside then why not alter his game and physical stature towards his changing role. He's too heavy, his guns compared to Warburton/Pocock is small (its not simply for show, opensides in for the steal need huge arms). He is built like a 6, a big tackler in the midfield, a big ball carrier weight (but he doesn't carry at all).

In essence I feel England have taken a rather unscientific approach to the game. Built around a idea of front five mobility of say AUS around 2005 where all the backline talent was meaningless as they got marched left right and centre and a Jack Rowell inspired backrow of Ivan Drago behemoths... where even he acknowledged was outdated after NZ tore them a new one in 1995. It has undermined IMO talented individuals, both in the pack and those in the backs who are unable to show their talents to the world.

Its simply unprofessional.

I agree and restarts are so important because they are a way to instantly put pressure on the opposition or if you are defending it, a way to relieve pressure.

Too many times England have just kicked the ball aimlessly to the opposition whether it was vs Ireland's Zebo in the 6 nations or vs Wales' Faletau in this RWC.

Takes the pressure completely off the opposition and allows them to build some momentum.


When I've been watching the RWC I have been thinking - why can't England do that?

Look at Japan and what good coaching can do. There's a clear plan and logic to the way they play. Eddie Jones is a proven international coach, Borthwick is inexperienced but his knowledge of the lineout is excellent and he's got a good brain.

RubyGuby wrote:England's game plan v Wales in Cardiff this year is now unrecognisable. On that day they had energy, they were dynamic all over the field and played with tempo and skill. They were the better team from the 1st minute and they challenged and won restarts and bossed the collision areas. What happened?

indeed. what happened

LondonTiger wrote:

screamingaddabs wrote:I am hugely disappointed that Lancaster bottled it.  

Lancaster had built so much potential, then changed tack at the last moment and threw it away.

In a long line of coaches bottling it.

Johnson in 2011 suddenley changed tack
Ashton in 2007 suffered a player revolt.
SCW in 1999 panicked and changed direction
Cooke in 1991 was ignored by his team come the final.

And how close were the greatest team england have ever had to losing in 2003. We seemed like rabbits in headlights against Wales for much of the 1/4 final and struggled with a very limited Aussie side in the final.

Not sure if its always the coaches, but sometimes the players. There is an argument that one should assist the others in not bottling it, but sometimes its just a case of picking people who rise to the occasion rather than shrink. Not always possible to tell until they're in the situation and then its too late.

From my own sporting days, i felt pressure in games where I knew we/I should win, but could potentially lose if i/we messed up. And least pressure in the opposite situations. I think the wales v england quarter final in 2003 may have showed that a bit. As did the New Zealand Australia semi. The final I think was more andre watson levelling the playing field... something eddie jones seemed to concurr with earlier in the week

milkyboy wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:England's game plan v Wales in Cardiff this year is now unrecognisable. On that day they had energy, they were dynamic all over the field and played with tempo and skill. They were the better team from the 1st minute and they challenged and won restarts and bossed the collision areas. What happened?

indeed. what happened

Gats is what happened. That dastardly James Bond villain and his bloody blacks cat!