QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October

by **George Carlin** Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:08 am

First topic message reminder :

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 6 Spring11

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 6 Wales_13

SOUTH AFRICA v WALES

17 October 2015
16:00 BST (UTC+01)
Twickenham, London

Live on expensive telly

Ref: Wayne Barnes (England)
ARs: George Clancy (Ireland) and JP Doyle (England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

30 Played 30
27 Won 2
1 Drawn 1
2 Lost 27
814 Points 440

B. Recent Form

29 November 2014
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
12–6 to Wales

21 June 2014
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
31–30 to South Africa

14 June 2014
Growthpoint Kings Park, Durban
38–16 to South Africa

9 November 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
15–24 to South Africa

11 September 2011
Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington
17–16 to South Africa

13 November 2010
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
25–29 to South Africa

5 June 2010
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
31–34 to South Africa

8 November 2008
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
15–20 to South Africa

C. TEAMS:
SOUTH AFRICA
QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 6 Tanit_10

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 6 Tanit_10

Le Roux; Pietersen, Kriel, De Allende, Habana; Pollard, Du Preez (capt); Mtawarira, B du Plessis, Malherbe; De Jager, Etzebeth; Burger, Louw, Vermeulen.

Replacements: Strauss for Du Plessis (55), Nyakane for Tendai Mtawarira (56), J Du Plessis for Malherbe (60), Du Toit for Etzebeth (67), Alberts for Louw (67), Lambie for Pollard (76), Serfontein for Kriel (67), Pienaar (unused).

WALES
QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 6 Cather10

QF1: South Africa v Wales, 17 October - Page 6 Cather10

Anscombe; Cuthbert, Morgan, Roberts, North; Biggar, G Davies; Jenkins, Baldwin, Lee; Charteris, AW Jones; Lydiate, Warburton (capt), Faletau.

Replacements: Owens for Baldwin (56), James for Jenkins (55), Francis for Lee (55), Davies for Charteris (63), Tipuric for Lydiate (67), L Williams for G Davies (70), Priestland for Biggar (73), Hook for Morgan (67).

by Newsilure Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:01 pm

Griff wrote:
TJ wrote:Griff - its the style of play they are coached to. It makes me want to cry watch 1/2p kicking away good counter ball - it can only be because thats what he has been told to do. Sure you cannot counter attack everytime but its a shame the back 3 of Wales are given so little license to attack

But this is my point - we don't always play that way so I'm not sure it is the coaching. Against Italy this year we were running from everywhere. The same players who were stodgier than my nan's rice pudding for 4 games were suddenly offloading, running good lines, scoring good backs tries. These same players under the same coach have had some great humdingers against Oz over the last few years where we've thrown it about, created overlaps, scored some lovely tries. Same coach, same tactics, pretty much the same players, but different style of play. So I think they can. I think they are given the licence because they have done it enough. It's just they sometimes don't. I'm hoping on Saturday they DO!

Since Shane retired Gat's has only authorised two positions to do anything unusual, like sidestep, that's been numbers 9 and 13. GD didn't play with his head up to well last Saturday and unfortunately without either JD2 or Scott or CA we didn't have anyone suitable for free ranging 13 role. Anyway as long as Cuthbert stays fit we are guaranteed one exciting back on the pitch, will he catch it, will he see it, will he make up his mind to tackle.... probably not, but its the never knowing that's so exciting!

by **George Carlin** Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:03 pm

2ndtimeround wrote:
Biltong wrote:I heard a rumour Romain Poite is the referee?

If that is the case we are in deep, deep shyte.

I hope it is a NH ref, the simple fact of having a familiar man in charge can make a big difference.
Joubert as usual killed us in the last game, I cant remember our back row been penalised that heavily under any other official.

We've got Joubert this weekend. Might as well just give Australia a bye

by 2ndtimeround Tue Oct 13, 2015 7:40 pm

George Carlin wrote:
2ndtimeround wrote:
Biltong wrote:I heard a rumour Romain Poite is the referee?

If that is the case we are in deep, deep shyte.

I hope it is a NH ref, the simple fact of having a familiar man in charge can make a big difference.
Joubert as usual killed us in the last game, I cant remember our back row been penalised that heavily under any other official.
We've got Joubert this weekend. Might as well just give Australia a bye

Ouch.

I cant complain, Wayne Barnes will keep the game moving, its just a shame we don't have the Backs fit to make the most of it.
With J P Doyle and Clancy on the wings that's a really strong team of officials and only 1 away from what would be my pick for the final with Owens replacing Clancy.

by bedfordwelsh Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:24 pm

Wayne Barnes has been good so far

by **Biltong** Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:42 pm

Yeah, I have no issues with him, at least he is usually consistent throughout a match

by wales606 Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:11 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne Barnes has been good so far

Agree,

Think it will be Barnes or Owens for the final

Hope it goes nowhere near Joubert or Clancy.

by fa0019 Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:20 pm

Think Owens has to improve from last sunday if he wants the final.... surprisingly poor and if anything his mocking of pape was a little crass. Starting to believe his own hype a little. Top ref don't get me wrong but it just didn't sit well with me.

by maestegmafia Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:56 pm

wales606 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne Barnes has been good so far

Agree,

Think it will be Barnes or Owens for the final

Hope it goes nowhere near Joubert or Clancy.

I won't watch if it's Clancy

He ruins matches for both teams and the fans

by SecretFly Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:07 am

If it's Clancy then the losing team will be given 3 hours more than 80 minutes to pull the ABs back in Wink

That's fair.

by gregortree Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:00 am

You know a thread has run out of prematch gas when it starts blaming the unnamed ref before his first whistle.

by RubyGuby Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:44 am

gregortree wrote:You know a thread has run out of prematch gas when it starts blaming the unnamed ref before his first whistle.

C'mon Greg we all know they ref who gets the final is a complete 1 eyed toxxer thumbsup

by Luckless Pedestrian Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:23 am

fa0019 wrote:Think Owens has to improve from last sunday if he wants the final.... surprisingly poor and if anything his mocking of pape was a little crass. Starting to believe his own hype a little. Top ref don't get me wrong but it just didn't sit well with me.

Only a little?

by RubyGuby Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:32 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Think Owens has to improve from last sunday if he wants the final.... surprisingly poor and if anything his mocking of pape was a little crass. Starting to believe his own hype a little. Top ref don't get me wrong but it just didn't sit well with me.

Only a little?

I'm with fa0019 here - I thought Owens was very poor and is starting to move into Steve Walsh territory in wanting to become the centre of attention

thumbsup

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:10 am

Looks like an unchanged team for the Bokks

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:20 am

Roux
JPP
Allende
Kreil
Habbana
Pollard
Du Preez
Beast
Du Plessis
Malherbe
Etzbeth
Lood
Louw
Burger
Vermulan

Subs
Strauss, Nyakane, Du Plessis, Du Toit, Alberts, Pienaar, Lambie and Serfontein

by SecretFly Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:25 am

The French lost because Owens wanted them to. Fact.

God, some of you guys must have lost a lot of money at the bookies Wink

My heart bleeds..

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:32 am

HM

"We have planned for when Jean de Villiers and Victor Matfield are injured.
I never thought we would start with the youngsters in the second-row.
I am a big believer you need experience but youngsters all over the world have shown they can inspire with heart.
I look back at sport like Mike Tyson and Boris Becker who were stars at 21 and in history you have figures like Alexander the Great.
I truly believe in these guys and they have played against some of the best players in the world in the the Rugby Championship.
I back the youngsters and what they lack in experience they make up for in heart."

by BamBam Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:33 am

Pleasantly surprised that they resisted bringing Matfield back in

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:37 am

Meyer on Du Preez the Scrumhalf that was playing in Japan..!

His form has not surprised me.
I convinced him to come back but he was not sure because he has had some injuries.
I begged him to come back because if you have him in your side it clicks.
He is like Richie McCaw.
He is one of the most astute players I have ever coached.
He is a genius and an unbelievable player. If we go through in this tournament he will get ever better and I have so much confidence in him.

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:39 am

I'm quite surprised at his passion for Du Preez. I didn't think he looked that spectacular yet!

He was a superb player but he has slowed down after, what, four years in Japan?

by fa0019 Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:54 am

Never thought FdP was ever a gas man anyhow. Just has excellent game management. Will suit Pollard a lot more than Lambie.

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:07 am

I imagine it will be quite a pensive match

by mikey_dragon Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:23 pm

That's quite a bench SA are able to put out there...

by Guest Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:41 pm

They'll need it too. Wales are going to blow them off the park first sixty minutes boxing

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:59 pm

Gents....

2 tickets for the match on sale. Cat D tickets £125 each.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:16 pm

South Africa by 20.

Injuries have hit Wales hard and the Boks just seem to be getting better.

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:18 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Gents....

2 tickets for the match on sale. Cat D tickets £125 each.

Bugger just bought two for £155.

Oh well good luck mate I'm sure you'll find them a good home

by Runster Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:48 pm

gregortree wrote:You know a thread has run out of prematch gas when it starts blaming the unnamed ref before his first whistle.

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:02 pm

fa0019 wrote:Never thought FdP was ever a gas man anyhow. Just has excellent game management. Will suit Pollard a lot more than Lambie.

It looks like injury is forcing Meyers hand to make big improvements and blood young exciting talent.

The depth in SA rugby is enviable from a Welsh perspective.

This is a good side and although they lost to the Japs early on their last game was the type of clinical excecution of a weaker team we expect a top Bok side to produce. They did it to us once with even more precision.

That said, the American you played a week ago would have probably put a half century on that Welsh team.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:06 pm

wales606 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne Barnes has been good so far

Agree,

Think it will be Barnes or Owens for the final

Hope it goes nowhere near Joubert or Clancy.

Hope it's Barnes too.

Then I can add this one to the Joke Thread:

What do you call an Englishman in the RWC 2015 Final?

The Referee.

by SecretFly Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:09 pm

Yeah.. I hope it ain't Clancy. It'd get too embarrassing to be reffed by a ref from your own Nation (well, outside of Pro12 anyway)........... I'd elect to have JP Doyle instead....

by lostinwales Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:10 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
wales606 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne Barnes has been good so far

Agree,

Think it will be Barnes or Owens for the final

Hope it goes nowhere near Joubert or Clancy.

Hope it's Barnes too.

Then I can add this one to the Joke Thread:

What do you call an Englishman in the RWC 2015 Final?

The Referee.

Welsh? you never know.....

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:13 pm

lostinwales wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
wales606 wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Wayne Barnes has been good so far

Agree,

Think it will be Barnes or Owens for the final

Hope it goes nowhere near Joubert or Clancy.

Hope it's Barnes too.

Then I can add this one to the Joke Thread:

What do you call an Englishman in the RWC 2015 Final?

The Referee.

Welsh? you never know.....

It's an interchangeable joke.

What do you call a Scot on the Lions tour?

The Doctor

by fa0019 Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:15 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
fa0019 wrote:Never thought FdP was ever a gas man anyhow. Just has excellent game management. Will suit Pollard a lot more than Lambie.

It looks like injury is forcing Meyers hand to make big improvements and blood young exciting talent.

The depth in SA rugby is enviable from a Welsh perspective.

This is a good side and although they lost to the Japs early on their last game was the type of clinical excecution of a weaker team we expect a top Bok side to produce. They did it to us once with even more precision.

That said, the American you played a week ago would have probably put a half century on that Welsh team.

Depth is a luxury but remember, SA only have 5 pro teams to Wales 4. I admit that near all of those are SA registered players and one or two play in Europe/Japan.

No way a foregone conclusion. The boks for me should win if both teams play to their potential. They're on the up, have fresh legs and form.. with a big dose of reality from the Japan game (which will suit the boks to a T). Wales still have a capable backrow and halfback pairing... and North would get into any team in the world, albeit form has not been great since he's come back.

by RubyGuby Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:18 pm

North would not get into any team in the world - there are at least 6 wingers who are better and at the moment I'd take DTH Van Der Merve before him

thumbsup

by fa0019 Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:21 pm

RubyGuby wrote:North would not get into any team in the world - there are at least 6 wingers who are better and at the moment I'd take DTH Van Der Merve before him

Form is one thing that stops it yes... but class lasts a long time. Wingers have mostly short shelf lives. Why Ben Cohen last got capped aged 27, the greats such as Campo, Habana, Williams, Robinson, Underwood... they all lasted well into their 30s when their pace left them. North may have to adjust his game but eventually he'll just be as potent.

by RubyGuby Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:54 pm

North offers little aside of power which any good defence can nullify these days - His failure to get over the line at pace from 10 yards out against a scrambling defence illustrates his lack of peripheral vision and guile to have the fleetness of foot to offset the defenders. There's only so much you can teach but an instinctive winger would have waltzed over from there as the defenders would not have been able to adjust their running lines. I've seen this time and time again with North. Maybe centre is his long term position as he will not get quicker.

thumbsup

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:59 pm

RubyGuby wrote:North offers little aside of power which any good defence can nullify these days - His failure to get over the line at pace from 10 yards out against a scrambling defence illustrates his lack of peripheral vision and guile to have the fleetness of foot to offset the defenders. There's only so much you can teach but an instinctive winger would have waltzed over from there as the defenders would not have been able to adjust their running lines. I've seen this time and time again with North. Maybe centre is his long term position as he will not get quicker.

DTH excels at that, he'll be a great asset to the Scarlets next year.

Wales seem to place a lot of faith in their big, powerful strike runners and much less faith in guile and flair. One of Wales' best wingers of the modern era was Shane Williams. Something that might be lost on current coaching staff.

Certainly Halfpenny was a joy to watch with the ball in hand 4 to 5 years ago. Now he is just a different type of player.

by Seagultaf Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:38 pm

RubyGuby wrote:North offers little aside of power which any good defence can nullify these days - His failure to get over the line at pace from 10 yards out against a scrambling defence illustrates his lack of peripheral vision and guile to have the fleetness of foot to offset the defenders. There's only so much you can teach but an instinctive winger would have waltzed over from there as the defenders would not have been able to adjust their running lines. I've seen this time and time again with North. Maybe centre is his long term position as he will not get quicker.

North's form and development have really dropped off since he left Wales for the English league, he is no doubt being paid loads of money but he is clearly suffering for the number of games he is playing. When he was in Wales he played more often for Wales than his club, that clearly suited him. He needs to decide when his contract runs our whether he is in the sport for short term cash or a long term Wales career?

by TightHEAD Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:47 pm

Cash every time.

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:42 pm

W

Seagultaf wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:North offers little aside of power which any good defence can nullify these days - His failure to get over the line at pace from 10 yards out against a scrambling defence illustrates his lack of peripheral vision and guile to have the fleetness of foot to offset the defenders. There's only so much you can teach but an instinctive winger would have waltzed over from there as the defenders would not have been able to adjust their running lines. I've seen this time and time again with North. Maybe centre is his long term position as he will not get quicker.

North's form and development have really dropped off since he left Wales for the English league, he is no doubt being paid loads of money but he is clearly suffering for the number of games he is playing. When he was in Wales he played more often for Wales than his club, that clearly suited him. He needs to decide when his contract runs our whether he is in the sport for short term cash or a long term Wales career?

I think George Norths partner needs to be based in England so he wants to be with her.

by nganboy Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:59 am

TightHEAD wrote:Cash every time.

If that were true who on earth would want to play for NZ?
even the very best get paid about $NZ 10 per air mile

by nganboy Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:01 am

Anyway - I imagine despite losing important team leaders SA should win it. Even if they have been pretty Poopie this year

by maestegmafia Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:22 am

nganboy wrote:Anyway - I imagine despite losing important team leaders SA should win it. Even if they have been pretty Poopie this year

Wales have ten backs missing...! We have only beaten you twice... You are hitting form, you should win this at a canter...!

But I'm sure Wales will try to stop you.

by bedfordwelsh Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:35 am

Wales have been decimated by injuries in the backs and more specifically in 2 positions we are now down to what 4th/5th choice in the centre and wing/fullback so to even get this far has been great achievement.

That said I won't be using that as an excuse if we lose this weekend, we had chances last week to win the game but there were a few wrong decisions and a bit of white line fever that cost us the game.

by RubyGuby Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:41 am

Hook or Tyler Morgan is an interesting one. I see merits for both but one factor that might swing it is the fact that SA have a relatively inexperienced international centre pairing who are more guile than bosh. Maybe that's an opportunity for Morgan to test himself against other players with relatively little experience at this level. Of course the argument works the other way as well; however I'd be more cautious of playing Tyler against experienced and wily centres such as JDV etc. Interesting call here.

thumbsup

by bedfordwelsh Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:04 am

Hook doesn't get my vote at all and his defence is no worse or better than Morgans so for me I would give Tyler his chance after all he's the one for the future not Hook

by RubyGuby Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:11 am

Yeah Hook seems to divide a lot of opinion on here and in general I'm probably a little less critical than most. SA have few weaknesses but they remain in experienced at 10, 12 and 13 and maybe that's where we need to try and exploit them with our big runners. Maybe North and Roberts in the centre again might not be the worse. I don't like the fact that we may have 2 wingers who are poor and slow to turn defensively from angled aerial kicks. Unfortunately the cupboard is pretty bare and they have 2 strike runners out wide who are up there with the best and Cuthbert for me has become the new Priestland as I wince when he gets the ball. Priestland has done well when he has come on and I'm a bit surprised they haven't considered Priestland (10), Biggar and Roberts as a midfield. In Gatland we trust. Here's hoping and it makes you think what we might have achieved with 1/2p, Liam, Foxy and Scott W fit.

thumbsup

by bedfordwelsh Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:22 am

It's already been announced that Cuthbert and North will be on the wings with I guess and hope Anscombe at XV, that then leaves a straight shoot out I guess between Morgan and Hook, with Morgan getting my vote.

My 23 would be

James Baldwin Lee
AWJ Charteris
Lydiate Faletau Warburton

G Davies Biggar
North Roberts T Morgan Cuthbert

Anscombe

Jenkins, Owens, Francis, B Davies, Tipuric, Williams, Priestland and I guess Hook

by chris_501 Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:34 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:It's already been announced that Cuthbert and North will be on the wings with I guess and hope Anscombe at XV, that then leaves a straight shoot out I guess between Morgan and Hook, with Morgan getting my vote.

My 23 would be

James Baldwin Lee
AWJ Charteris
Lydiate Faletau Warburton

G Davies Biggar
North Roberts T Morgan Cuthbert

Anscombe

Jenkins, Owens, Francis, B Davies, Tipuric, Williams, Priestland and I guess Hook

I hope that is our 23 BW. I prefer Charteris to Davies. For all the improvement de Jäger brings, Matfield is still a top class lineout lock. Hopefully Longdog can get in to disrupt things a little bit without him.

Morgan should start at 13, I thought he showed up fine against Fiji, but I guess depends on whether he is 100% fit. Hook on the bench can cover at 13 if there is a first half disaster.

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