QF3: Ireland v Argentina, 18 October

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IRELAND v ARGENTINA

18 October 2015
KO: 13:00 BST (UTC+01)
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [tbc]

Ref: Jerome Garcès (France)
ARs: Romain Poite (France)and Chris Pollock (NZ)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)

A. Head to Head

15 Played 15
10 Won 5
0 Drawn 0
5 Lost 15
331 Points 283

B. Recent Form

14 June 2014
Estadio Monumental José Fierro, Tucumán
17 – 23 to Ireland

7 June 2014
Estadio Centenario, Resistencia
17 – 29 to Ireland

24 November 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
46 – 24 to Ireland

28 November 2010
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
29 – 9 to Ireland

22 November 2008
Croke Park, Dublin
17 – 3 to Ireland

30 September 2007
Parc des Princes, Paris, France
30 – 15 to Argentina

2 June 2007
Estadio José Amalfitani, Buenos Aires
16 – 0 to Argentina

C. TEAMS:

IRELAND


15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster)
13. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
11. Dave Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
6. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
7. Chris Henry (Malone/Ulster)
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) captain

Replacements;
16. Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster)
18. Nathan White (Connacht)
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
21. Eoin Reddan (Old Crescent/Leinster)
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster)
23. Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock/Leinster)

ARGENTINA


15. Joaquin Tuculet
14. Santiago Cordero
13. Matías Moroni
12. Juan Martín Hernández
11. Juan Imhoff
10. Nicolás Sánchez
9. Martín Landajo
1. Marcos Ayerza
2. Agustín Creevy (c)
3. Ramiro Herrera
4. Guido Petti
5. Tomás Lavanini
6. Pablo Matera
7. Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe
8. Leonardo Senatore

Replacements:
16. Julián Montoya
17. Lucas Noguera
18. Juan Pablo Orlandi
19. Matías Alemanno
20. Facundo Isa
21. Tomás Cubelli
22. Jerónimo De La Fuente
23. Lucas González Amorosino

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:All people have suggested is that Argentina are a better team than any faced by Ireland in the WC so far.

Who doesn't accept that?  Find the post.

I'd say they're in the same league as France, England and Wales.  Would I laugh at France, England or Wales as opponents?  Not on your life.  Should we tremble at the prospect of having to play them?.... nope.

Argentina are definitely better than those 3 fly. They stuffed the boks on their home soil this summer, something those 3 have never done, neither have we. They should have beaten the ABs on the opening weekend and have blown every other side in their pool to pieces, including physical Tongan and Georgian sides who really put it up the the ABs.

Along with Australia they've been the best side in the tournament by far  and I'd back them to hammer France, if you are putting them on par with any of the 6N then that is underestimating them.

South Africa have been poor this season, and South Africa beat Argentina on their home soil in the return match. Argentina are a better Argentina than we have faced before, but Ireland are a better Ireland. We can still lose to them, but I don't buy the hype, and I certainly don't buy that they are the better side.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

Against Canada? Shows how clueless you are. We put a big score on them without trying. Against Italy we played with a passive defence and put them away, although it was closer than we would have liked. Against France we played the way we can play for the first time since the 6N's, and yes, we destroyed them. They had nothing left in the tank by the start of the second half.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

God no, just as up in the air as the France game for me. Argentina have looked really strong.

eirebilly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Earls will start. Hard to argue against it after his last game. I think it would be a bit risky starting Jackson against the Mighty Puma's.

You mean after he butchered a simple try and nearly decapitated a team mate?

Nothing like an extreme over reaction to give me a smile

Is that not what these forums are built on?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

I have to say, I find Tiger and your comments baffling.

There is not a person on this thread (that I've seen) that does not think the Argies have a really great and really balanced side. Fast out back and strong up front. And nearly everyone thinks that they could easily beat us if things go their way.

About the only thing that I can see is that there's a modest quiet confidence in this Ireland team (for the first time ever) that we don't have to panic just because the opposition look good. Old Irish teams needed to hope for a bad day from the best teams and throw themselves in front of the bus to win. There's a feeling this time round that we have a bit more of an ability to force our tactical game on other teams and play the right game on the right occasion. That is all.

Doesn't mean I'm not worried when I see Santiago Cordero dancing around 5 or 6 tackles with the ball in hand.

I mean what do you want? That every Irish fan gives up the ghost and starts talking like this match is a shoe-in for Argentina?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

Bit of an oxymoran there no?

Munchkin wrote:

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:All people have suggested is that Argentina are a better team than any faced by Ireland in the WC so far.

Who doesn't accept that?  Find the post.

I'd say they're in the same league as France, England and Wales.  Would I laugh at France, England or Wales as opponents?  Not on your life.  Should we tremble at the prospect of having to play them?.... nope.

Argentina are definitely better than those 3 fly. They stuffed the boks on their home soil this summer, something those 3 have never done, neither have we. They should have beaten the ABs on the opening weekend and have blown every other side in their pool to pieces, including physical Tongan and Georgian sides who really put it up the the ABs.

Along with Australia they've been the best side in the tournament by far  and I'd back them to hammer France, if you are putting them on par with any of the 6N then that is underestimating them.

South Africa have been poor this season, and South Africa beat Argentina on their home soil in the return match. Argentina are a better Argentina than we have faced before, but Ireland are a better Ireland. We can still lose to them, but I don't buy the hype, and I certainly don't buy that they are the better side.

Maybe not the better side per se but in this tournament they've played better rugby against better opposition than we have.

We also really struggled against them 2 summers ago when they put out their c team and they have the anti-style to the way we like to play - they force teams to commit to the breakdown and make it difficult to win ball, but have blistering pace to burn teams out wide if the defense gets sucked narrow.

You can't gain much from Argentina's ranking or long term performances as with the other tier one sides, they have world class players and when they do come together and get a run of games and preparation together they are as good as any side in the world.

I am certain this is the toughest opposition/challenge we have faced under Schmidt and will take our best performance to win. The only side I'd rather face less is NZ at this stage of the competition.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

Oh, and you think I'm a gimp, an arrogant gimp

Away back to your thread and moan about how unfair life is, you ejit

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

Against Canada? Shows how clueless you are. We put a big score on them without trying. Against Italy we played with a passive defence and put them away, although it was closer than we would have liked. Against France we played the way we can play for the first time since the 6N's, and yes, we destroyed them. They had nothing left in the tank by the start of the second half.

I know you Irish lads like a drink but being in the boozer before noon is a bit extreme!

Munchkin, I know you views do not necessarily represent those of the entire country of Ireland and many Irish posters on here i.e. Notch, Fly ME109 and Rodders are good and well informed posters. However your comments here are absolutely rancid in their arrogance and make me wish/hope with every fibre in my being that Argentina rip you a new one.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

IMO it's disrespectful. That's not my opinion, it's a fact. Make up your mind!

Not disagreeing with anything you say there Rugger, last thing we should be doing is underestimating a team that has done numbers on us in tournaments before, particularly looking as strong as they have been. That line just cracked me up

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

Against Canada? Shows how clueless you are. We put a big score on them without trying. Against Italy we played with a passive defence and put them away, although it was closer than we would have liked. Against France we played the way we can play for the first time since the 6N's, and yes, we destroyed them. They had nothing left in the tank by the start of the second half.

I know you Irish lads like a drink but being in the boozer before noon is a bit extreme!

Munchkin, I know you views do not necessarily represent those of the entire country of Ireland and many Irish posters on here i.e. Notch, Fly ME109 and Rodders are good and well informed posters. However your comments here are absolutely rancid in their arrogance and make me wish/hope with every fibre in my being that Argentina rip you a new one.

No, you're confusing us with the Scots.

I don't drink alcohol at all.

Tea total

I need a drink.

Golden wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

Bit of an oxymoran there no?

Do you mean Oxymoron Golden? Or is Oxy Moran an Irish player I don't know about? Can he play 10 or 13 by any chance?

rodders wrote:I need a drink.

Ireland by 9 points

Marshes wrote:

Golden wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

Bit of an oxymoran there no?

Do you mean Oxymoron Golden? Or is Oxy Moran an Irish player I don't know about? Can he play 10 or 13 by any chance?

Hes the new utility back haven't you heard?

Hes a kiwi so he must be better then Earls right?

Radge shouldn't you be concentrating on Australia?

tecphobe wrote:Radge shouldn't you be concentrating on Australia?

So I have to be Irish now to comment on your threads? That's a bit deatheaterish* isn't it?

Australia vs. Scotland is a bit of a forgone conclusion, there isn't much to say on that thread Australia will win and probably win well especially when we have lost 2 of our best players. Yes Ireland have lost 3/4 of their best players but as we all know Ireland have a much greater player pool than Scotland.

Ire vs. Arg is much less clear cut despite how easy Munchkin thinks it will be...

*harry potter reference

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

Can only imagine you are reading a different thread. Some people seem to have a problem with Irish fans being confident in what this team is capable of. Argentina are a great side, my second favourite side, and if they beat us I will support them for the rest of the tournament. They have incredibly impressive outside backs and back row, and a traditionally strong scrum. But we are not such a bad side ourselves. I can say that I respect Argentina and see them as a side with an outside chance of winning this World Cup. But I'm not going to pretend I don't have the same view of my own team, which is tried and tested in tight and important games and has won silverware and beaten the big SH teams in the last two years. There's really no team in this World Cup we're going to face who I think we can't possibly beat when we play at our best. I think our best performances under Schmidt back that up- I particularly want to see us have another crack at the All Blacks after just falling short in 2013. So if that is arrogant or thinking other teams are only as good as Uruguay, fine. We didn't come to the RWC to make up the numbers, we came to win. And I believe we can win this game. Just because you believe in your own team doesn't mean you don't respect the ability of others.

I'm another boring non-drinking/drunk Irishman btw. Our genetic imprint is just about still clinging in there in areas where civilisation hasn't got to yet. David Attenborough wants to do a docu special on us... but the drunks keep giving him wind-up directions.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Australia vs. Scotland is a bit of a forgone conclusion

That is actually a much worse attitude to have than the one you castigate Munchkin for.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

tecphobe wrote:Radge shouldn't you be concentrating on Australia?

So I have to be Irish now to comment on your threads? That's a bit deatheaterish* isn't it?

Australia vs. Scotland is a bit of a forgone conclusion, there isn't much to say on that thread Australia will win and probably win well especially when we have lost 2 of our best players. Yes Ireland have lost 3/4 of their best players but as we all know Ireland have a much greater player pool than Scotland.

Ire vs. Arg is much less clear cut despite how easy Munchkin thinks it will be...

*harry potter reference

Who said it would be easy? Try reading through the threads before you jump to conclusions, and before you throw out insults. You might end up being banned for three weeks. Wouldn't want that

If you had bothered to read my comments, you would find that I have said that we can be beaten by Argentina. It's all on the day, and with some key players missing our task isn't any easier. I just don't buy the hype surrounding Argentina. They are an improved side. They might beat us, but I think we will win.

Now wind your horns in

SecretFly wrote:I'm another boring non-drinking/drunk Irishman btw. Our genetic imprint is just about still clinging in there in areas where civilisation hasn't got to yet.  David Attenborough wants to do a docu special on us... but the drunks keep giving him wind-up directions.

I knew there was something odd about you Fly

tecphobe wrote:Ireland by 9 points

Or do you mean 9 pints?

60 pints if we lose....even me.

Golden wrote:

Marshes wrote:

Golden wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Argentina are the new All Blacks. Can't be denied. Just look at their recent record.....


We should tremble with fear.

Either this comment is tongue in cheek banter or is level of arrogance mostly associated with Will Carling era England. Staggering.

LondonTiger wrote:Argentina are a half decent side, but reading most o fthis thread I get the feeling Irish fans view them about as good as Uruguay.

I get the same impression Tiger. Ireland are a strong side but I would say Argentina are just as strong.

Arrogant because I don't buy the hype? Fair enough Radge. Ireland have just won two 6N's, have beaten Australia and South Africa in the AI's, have just destroyed France, but according to you I'm arrogant for not buying the Argentina hype, and it is hype, and believing my side can beat them.....

You numpty

Interesting choice of words. If you destroyed France I'm curious to see how you rate your team's performances against Canada.

I wouldn't say you destroyed France. You beat them well enough despite losing some key players, although you should have lost your best player due to GBH but that's another matter.

Indeed you are correct, you have won the last couple of six nations tournaments, bagging grand slams along the way no doubt... And yes beating South Africa hasn't exactly been a benchmark for an invincible team this year since Argentina and Japan can also count themselves among teams to have taken that particular scalp.

As for Australia beating them in the Autumn hasn't been all that hard, now however is a different matter.

The level of contempt you are showing the Argentina side IMO is pretty disrespectful. That's not my opinion thats a fact. I would like to see Ireland win, the whole NH/SH or 6N/RC thing, but your posts don't exactly endear your side to me.

Basically I think you are a bit of a gimp.

Bit of an oxymoran there no?

Do you mean Oxymoron Golden? Or is Oxy Moran an Irish player I don't know about? Can he play 10 or 13 by any chance?

Hes the new utility back haven't you heard?

Hes a kiwi so he must be better then Earls right?

Well with a first name like Oxy I assumed Antipodean

Also I thought "Better than Earls" was an oxymoron too! That might just be for some

Radge Argentina have not beaten Ireland home or away since the 2007 RWC. Scotland have beaten Ireland more recently and I would still expect Ireland to beat Scotland. No one is saying that Argentina are a bad.side their clearly not, however the psychological boost given to Ireland supporters by beating France is Huge. They are our bogey side it gives us optimism and belief and makes us dare to dream

SecretFly wrote:I'm another boring non-drinking/drunk Irishman btw. Our genetic imprint is just about still clinging in there in areas where civilisation hasn't got to yet.  David Attenborough wants to do a docu special on us... but the drunks keep giving him wind-up directions.

We are a dying breed. Won't be long before we are forced to go underground and not drink in secret

Bookies agree with me Rodders

tecphobe wrote:Bookies agree with me Rodders

That's because Argentian's aren't as likely to go on paddy power online after 10 pints.

Notch wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Australia vs. Scotland is a bit of a forgone conclusion

That is actually a much worse attitude to have than the one you castigate Munchkin for.

Bless you Notch but lets be realistic.

Australia have beaten South Africa, New Zealand, Wales and England in the last 3 months. That's 4 teams we haven't beaten in 3 years. My attitude is realistic. Follow a rubbish team for long enough and you can't be as optimistic as you guys

You can't seriously think we stand a chance against that Australian team do you? They hammered England at Twickenham, a feat Scotland haven't managed in my lifetime. We will lose, I just hope we make a good account of ourselves.

No, but I think it is better to be positive than to write your team off. Upsets happen in sport, and it can happen in this game. But only if the Scotland players mentality is closer to Munchkins than yours! Keep the faith!

They (Australia) didn't hammer Wales (depleted Wales) - a Wales that had they been a touch more savvy might have collected one or two tries from 13 man Australia.

Yes, wonderful show by Australia with 13 men on the field for a time, but they were down to 13 for a reason - pressure exerted by Wales.

So.  Have Cotter's Scotland not got the blood for one final all-out effort to do another 'shock' result on this WC?  

I think they do.  Give it their all, harass the Aussie's with sustained intensity and see what happens.  But I think they'll give themselves a chance.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
You can't seriously think we stand a chance against that Australian team do you? They hammered England at Twickenham, a feat Scotland haven't managed in my lifetime. We will lose, I just hope we make a good account of ourselves.

Scotland have nothing to lose so can go all out knowing they've already achieved their goal of qualification and.if Australia are looking down the road then there is definitely a chance of an upset.

I think the wallabies look too good but wouldn't see it as a forgone conclusion at all.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Notch wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Australia vs. Scotland is a bit of a forgone conclusion

That is actually a much worse attitude to have than the one you castigate Munchkin for.

Bless you Notch but lets be realistic.

Australia have beaten South Africa, New Zealand, Wales and England in the last 3 months. That's 4 teams we haven't beaten in 3 years. My attitude is realistic. Follow a rubbish team for long enough and you can't be as optimistic as you guys

You can't seriously think we stand a chance against that Australian team do you? They hammered England at Twickenham, a feat Scotland haven't managed in my lifetime. We will lose, I just hope we make a good account of ourselves.

Scotland won their last 2 meetings against Argentina and Ireland beat Australia yet according to you Scotland have no chance and Ireland supporters can't be confident of beating Argentina.

Actually rodders Ireland are favourites across the books. As someone who works in the industry I wouldn't be foolish enough to go by PP

We may need to get some missing posters up for Darren Cave as Earls sat out training today!

marty2086 wrote:We may need to get some missing posters up for Darren Cave as Earls sat out training today!

He's locked inside Earls wardrobe

He sat out training 'cause his kinda class don't need no training.  

Plus, he's letting the glue dry a little on his hands.  Hoping for more grip at the weekend.

Argentina have been hyped up. That's not to disparage them. Ireland were under hyped before france and are now over hyped. France were under hyped before Ireland but are always a cliche so are correctly hyped (neither under nor over hyped) for NZ. Scotland are under hyped and aus over hyped. Wales under hyped. SA hyped. England under hyped. Etc etc. To much hype. Regardless I think Ireland will win by 5. Aus by 8. SA by 1 and NZ by 13. I think that reflects the current world standings of the teams left in the competition. Others are of course free to disagree but it is remarkable how rare irish confidence is that it comes across to others as massive gloating. Expecting to beat a team you are rabked ahead of by a non-converted try wouldn't be gloating for most other teams, why Ireland?

Have just seen that Ireland may play Johnny Sexton in their game against Argentina.

I thought Ian Madigan really liven'd up the Ireland attack when he came on, so why risk playing Sexton if he is not fully fit?

Sexton controls the pace and pattern of a game better.  We may need a brake put to the game at times.

Or that would be the theory..

...maybe though we'll rue the day we didn't stick with Madigan (if that turns out to be the case that Sexton plays)

SecretFly wrote:Sexton controls the pace and pattern of a game better.  We may need a brake put to the game at times.

Or that would be the theory..

...maybe though we'll rue the day we didn't stick with Madigan (if that turns out to be the case that Sexton plays)

SecretFly.

Never really thought Madigan wouldbe any good for Ireland to be honest. Did not think he could get the Ireland team flowing like he did the other day. But was really impressed when he came on for Sexton. I know Sexton is number 1 fly half for Ireland, but limping off with a groin injurie and the game sparking into life when Madigan came on, just seems madness to me.

Surely it would be in Ireland best interest to let Sexton fully recover for the next game.( if there is to be a next game) that is.

Madigan is impulsive and just might set up too fast a game that might have the potential of running away from us against a very slick Argentina.

We've always said Madigan can do his thing.  And he can.  And the more he's trusted, the more his confidence will grow.  
But I do think if Sexton is fit to play (and Joe is not the man to throw a guy in there who isn't) he'll be a better chaperone to take us through the first 60 or so minutes of the next game.

Considering (if lucky) that we might have an encounter next up with the glory boys of Oz, I think this game should be a much more a containing kind of game.  Containing the Argentine's most ambitious gameplans - frustrating them.

There are only three more games AT MOST.  It's becoming too late to be trying to save players when the very act of saving them might lose you a game.  Lose a game and it's over anyway.

SecretFly wrote:Madigan is impulsive and just might set up too fast a game that might have the potential of running away from us against a very slick Argentina.

We've always said Madigan can do his thing.  And he can.  And the more he's trusted, the more his confidence will grow.  
But I do think if Sexton is fit to play (and Joe is not the man to throw a guy in there who isn't) he'll be a better chaperone to take us through the first 60 or so minutes of the next game.

Considering (if lucky) that we might have an encounter next up with the glory boys of Oz, I think this game should be a much more a containing kind of game.  Containing the Argentine's most ambitious gameplans - frustrating them.

There are only three more games AT MOST.  It's becoming too late to be trying to save players when the very act of saving them might lose you a game.  Lose a game and it's over anyway.

I think you are right that Sexton should start over Madigan if he is fit, but I do hope the lads are sitting down to re-watch the game thinking "Jeez Louise maybe we can play a bit more of an open plan!!". Or maybe that was Joe's crafty plan all along

Against France Ireland actually looked like playing their own game, rather than containment or stifling. It was brilliant to see, and the odd fumble aside, everyone looked like they were up to the challenge of playing that type of rugby. I don't know how much of that was down to Madigan coming on, but if I'm honest I don't think it would have been the same if Sexton stayed on.

I'm not saying we have to go all-singing, all-dancing, just that the aerial bombardment and containment be aspects of the plan rather than the focal points. To my mind a containment game at this stage cedes the initiative and momentum to the attacking team, which is a dangerous thing against a team with their tails already up.

Oh I'm not saying aerial stuff all the way through, Marshes.  But these players simply now have to pace themselves because if they don't, it won't matter how wonderful they were in their last game, there is always a bigger one on the horizon if they win it.

Three games potentially.  Each one theoretically increasing in effort needed to sustain an 80 minutes.  We can't save our considered best players from here on in (we've lost a few of them already to injury).  Our considered best players virtually have to be out there, if fit - so I'm saying a degree of pacing is required.  We couldn't do the France game three times in succession.  We just wouldn't hold up.

So I'd like us to have a plan to keep Argentina at arms length for good spells (if possible) spoil it up (like we can) - but absolutely in periods to put on the gas and see what happens.

But the plan shouldn't be 'let's go all out to get to the semi' and then be happy enough that we did it, but have nothing left in the tank for another game. This is getting very serious now. If Joe can manage this cautiously, we can get to a final.

Marshes wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Madigan is impulsive and just might set up too fast a game that might have the potential of running away from us against a very slick Argentina.

We've always said Madigan can do his thing.  And he can.  And the more he's trusted, the more his confidence will grow.  
But I do think if Sexton is fit to play (and Joe is not the man to throw a guy in there who isn't) he'll be a better chaperone to take us through the first 60 or so minutes of the next game.

Considering (if lucky) that we might have an encounter next up with the glory boys of Oz, I think this game should be a much more a containing kind of game.  Containing the Argentine's most ambitious gameplans - frustrating them.

There are only three more games AT MOST.  It's becoming too late to be trying to save players when the very act of saving them might lose you a game.  Lose a game and it's over anyway.

I think you are right that Sexton should start over Madigan if he is fit, but I do hope the lads are sitting down to re-watch the game thinking "Jeez Louise maybe we can play a bit more of an open plan!!". Or maybe that was Joe's crafty plan all along

Against France Ireland actually looked like playing their own game, rather than containment or stifling. It was brilliant to see, and the odd fumble aside, everyone looked like they were up to the challenge of playing that type of rugby. I don't know how much of that was down to Madigan coming on, but if I'm honest I don't think it would have been the same if Sexton stayed on.

I'm not saying we have to go all-singing, all-dancing, just that the aerial bombardment and containment be aspects of the plan rather than the focal points. To my mind a containment game at this stage cedes the initiative and momentum to the attacking team, which is a dangerous thing against a team with their tails already up.

I think we played to the same gameplan we used v Wales in the 6N.It was a possession based gameplan but our accuracy was just several levels up from where it has been in ages.

The thing that really excites me now is that we didn't actually play brilliantly last week,we played well but there is a lot to work on.We gave away far too many penalties,14 I think.We wasted one gilt edged chance and at half time it felt like the game was still on a knife edge.That game will stand to us and we'll be a lot sharper now having played a real top level Test match.Healy is the only player I think can improve hugely on his performance but I'd like to see the Kearney brothers a little more involved.

Marshes wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Madigan is impulsive and just might set up too fast a game that might have the potential of running away from us against a very slick Argentina.

We've always said Madigan can do his thing.  And he can.  And the more he's trusted, the more his confidence will grow.  
But I do think if Sexton is fit to play (and Joe is not the man to throw a guy in there who isn't) he'll be a better chaperone to take us through the first 60 or so minutes of the next game.

Considering (if lucky) that we might have an encounter next up with the glory boys of Oz, I think this game should be a much more a containing kind of game.  Containing the Argentine's most ambitious gameplans - frustrating them.

There are only three more games AT MOST.  It's becoming too late to be trying to save players when the very act of saving them might lose you a game.  Lose a game and it's over anyway.

I think you are right that Sexton should start over Madigan if he is fit, but I do hope the lads are sitting down to re-watch the game thinking "Jeez Louise maybe we can play a bit more of an open plan!!". Or maybe that was Joe's crafty plan all along

Against France Ireland actually looked like playing their own game, rather than containment or stifling. It was brilliant to see, and the odd fumble aside, everyone looked like they were up to the challenge of playing that type of rugby. I don't know how much of that was down to Madigan coming on, but if I'm honest I don't think it would have been the same if Sexton stayed on.

I'm not saying we have to go all-singing, all-dancing, just that the aerial bombardment and containment be aspects of the plan rather than the focal points. To my mind a containment game at this stage cedes the initiative and momentum to the attacking team, which is a dangerous thing against a team with their tails already up.

Yep this last point is what scares me too. But I agree with SF that it's hard to see how we can keep up the type of bodies-on-the-line breakdown intensity required for us to dominate possession. D'arcy just wrote a column somewhat motivated by this issue I think. He seems to think that the solution lies with a "neither and both" approach to the Argentina game. When the Argies back off for the kicking game, Murray/Madigan/Sexton need to have their heads up and be looking to break the gainline. When the Argies realise that we are running it (like last week) and then reinforce their line, then we have to spot the gaps and bring out our best territorial game to make them turn and cover. All going well then they won't know which way to turn.

No worries there then... that sounds like a piece of

SecretFly wrote:Oh I'm not saying aerial stuff all the way through, Marshes.  But these players simply now have to pace themselves because if they don't, it won't matter how wonderful they were in their last game, there is always a bigger one on the horizon if they win it.

Three games potentially.  Each one theoretically increasing in effort needed to sustain an 80 minutes.  We can't save our considered best players from here on in (we've lost a few of them already to injury).  Our considered best players virtually have to be out there, if fit - so I'm saying a degree of pacing is required.  We couldn't do the France game three times in succession.  We just wouldn't hold up.

So I'd like us to have a plan to keep Argentina at arms length for good spells (if possible) spoil it up (like we can) - but absolutely in periods to put on the gas and see what happens.

But the plan shouldn't be 'let's go all out to get to the semi' and then be happy enough that we did it, but have nothing left in the tank for another game.  This is getting very serious now.  If Joe can manage this cautiously, we can get to a final.

Dead right the level of intensity from the France game will be very difficult to match. It would be great to have something in the tanks for the semis (particularly if Scotland don't give Australia a tough game so they come at us fresher), but I think Argentina will be all out (much much fresher from a less intense game and longer rest), and this could also be a match with another big toll. Their forwards are big and abrasive so will give plenty of wear to our pack, and I think our defensive line needs to be up quick like against France to choke space or their backs could do damage. I think they will aim to come at Ireland early and establish the upper hand but if they can't it could be a big tussle for the advantage stretched out over 80 minutes. Might suit them to drag Ireland into that type of game.

For me our main hope of being able to contain them and change the gears is if we get a good score out in front, but only then can we really look at containment!