6 Nations - your predictions for rugby's new 2nd tier

First topic message reminder :

Well with us all being out of the World Cup I think we can move on and look forward to the worlds premier competition in rugby... My predictions for the final table in 2016 is as follows:
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. Scotland
4. France
5. England
6. Italy

I truly believe Wales are going to be in a strong position by February. We'll still be without some key players but have some players to come back in with the likes of Liam Williams and perhaps JD2. We'll also have some better players to come in, Rob Evans anyone? The fitness and strength levels will still be very high as Gatland has had more time with the guys. It's wales' tournament .

Ireland weren't the greatest going into the World Cup and were a distinct second best to Argentina yesterday. However when it comes to 6 Nations opposition Ireland have had the beating of most of the opposition, evident by winning the last two tournaments. The provincial teams are not far off international standard, so Ireland will also still be playing at a high intensity by Feb.

Scotland I think are improving and this will continue into the 6 Nations. I think third is a realistic target for the team. Playing out of sorts France and England teams at home will help their cause. They now also have the beating of Italy - who only seem to be getting worse and could be without their talismanic captain(?). Glasgow are a good team, Edinburgh are continuing to improve. Both will soon overtake the Welsh domestic teams IMO. This will only help the strength of the Scottish team who finally have a good coach.

I think the bottom 3 will all be with new coaches, France and Italy definitely will be. I think it's a big ask to immediately turn around the fortunes of these teams in such a short space of time and England are no doubt building for the 2027 World Cup anyway...

So over to V2. Who's your pick and why?

Shifty wrote:

rodders wrote:Wales will win the 6N.

I think whomever wins the first game between Ireland and Wales in Dublin will set their 6 nations up.  To be honest I think England at Twickenham and Ireland in Dublin might be a little too much for us this season, especially since we're not even sure which players will be back from long term injury, a lot of the players who got injuries are out for 6+ months which takes them to the end of this season.  Most will simply not be pushed back for the last few weeks for the season and will probably start fresh next season now.

Shifty if we can get that win first up against Ireland we then have two home game before going to Twickenham so hopefully if things go well we could be going there on back of 3 wins would should be good confidence wise.

TJ wrote:For those who decry Scotlands chances this year based on previous experience you need to remember that the Scotland team especially the backs are very inexperienced and young - many of them playing in their first 6N last year.  This year they will have a good few more caps and a lot more experience. ie 10 / 13 more caps or for many of them double or more the international experience than they had last year coming into the 6N

Possible first choice back division -

9 - Greig Laidlaw   30 yrs    46 caps
10 - Finn Russell - 23yrs -   15 Caps
11 Tommy Seymour  27 yrs 22 Caps
12 Alec Dunbar       25 yrs   14 Caps
13 Mark Bennett 22 yrs 13 caps
14 Sean Maitland    27 yrs    20 caps
15 Stuart Hogg      23 yrs     38 Caps

158 caps total with more than half of those coming from 2 players.  How many international teams have such an inexperienced back division?  They will only get better and with a six nations, a WC and the warm up matches under their belt nowshould be ready to show us something special

The forwards are not quite as inexperienced but possibly our best forward and maybe the only real world class player we have  Ickle Jonny Gray is only 21 with just 19 caps.  Against Aus we had half the number of caps they did.  Were we not the youngest team in the WC?

We will see tho and as Scots fans we have been here before

England?

Ben Youngs 26yrs 49 caps
George Ford 22 yrs 13 caps
Jonny May 25 yrs 16 caps
Henry Slade 22 yrs 1 cap
Jonathan Joseph 24 yrs 13 caps
Anthony Watson 21 yrs 11 caps
Mike Brown 30 yrs 39 caps

Gives a total of 143, although I think they are pre-world cup stats so you might have to add 20 or so. Still, it drops if you cut May for Nowell and Joseph (injured) for Daly by a few more.

Interesting Robbo. Scots stats are post WC and thats not really your (coaches) first choice is it?

mikey_dragon wrote:Well with us all being out of the World Cup I think we can move on and look forward to the worlds premier competition in rugby... My predictions for the final table in 2016 is as follows:
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. Scotland
4. France
5. England
6. Italy

I truly believe Wales are going to be in a strong position by February. We'll still be without some key players but have some players to come back in with the likes of Liam Williams and perhaps JD2. We'll also have some better players to come in, Rob Evans anyone? The fitness and strength levels will still be very high as Gatland has had more time with the guys. It's wales' tournament .

Ireland weren't the greatest going into the World Cup and were a distinct second best to Argentina yesterday. However when it comes to 6 Nations opposition Ireland have had the beating of most of the opposition, evident by winning the last two tournaments. The provincial teams are not far off international standard, so Ireland will also still be playing at a high intensity by Feb.

Scotland I think are improving and this will continue into the 6 Nations. I think third is a realistic target for the team. Playing out of sorts France and England teams at home will help their cause. They now also have the beating of Italy - who only seem to be getting worse and could be without their talismanic captain(?). Glasgow are a good team, Edinburgh are continuing to improve. Both will soon overtake the Welsh domestic teams IMO. This will only help the strength of the Scottish team who finally have a good coach.

I think the bottom 3 will all be with new coaches, France and Italy definitely will be. I think it's a big ask to immediately turn around the fortunes of these teams in such a short space of time and England are no doubt building for the 2027 World Cup anyway...

So over to V2. Who's your pick and why?

ehm..what?.we won in Scotland 5 months ago and Zebre just beat Edinburgh...

TJ wrote:Interesting Robbo.  Scots stats are post WC and thats not really your (coaches) first choice is it?

Not far off if Lancaster sticks around.

aqualung wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Well with us all being out of the World Cup I think we can move on and look forward to the worlds premier competition in rugby... My predictions for the final table in 2016 is as follows:
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. Scotland
4. France
5. England
6. Italy

I truly believe Wales are going to be in a strong position by February. We'll still be without some key players but have some players to come back in with the likes of Liam Williams and perhaps JD2. We'll also have some better players to come in, Rob Evans anyone? The fitness and strength levels will still be very high as Gatland has had more time with the guys. It's wales' tournament .

Ireland weren't the greatest going into the World Cup and were a distinct second best to Argentina yesterday. However when it comes to 6 Nations opposition Ireland have had the beating of most of the opposition, evident by winning the last two tournaments. The provincial teams are not far off international standard, so Ireland will also still be playing at a high intensity by Feb.

Scotland I think are improving and this will continue into the 6 Nations. I think third is a realistic target for the team. Playing out of sorts France and England teams at home will help their cause. They now also have the beating of Italy - who only seem to be getting worse and could be without their talismanic captain(?). Glasgow are a good team, Edinburgh are continuing to improve. Both will soon overtake the Welsh domestic teams IMO. This will only help the strength of the Scottish team who finally have a good coach.

I think the bottom 3 will all be with new coaches, France and Italy definitely will be. I think it's a big ask to immediately turn around the fortunes of these teams in such a short space of time and England are no doubt building for the 2027 World Cup anyway...

So over to V2. Who's your pick and why?

ehm..what?.we won in Scotland 5 months ago and Zebre just beat Edinburgh...

Scotland beat you home and away in the rwc warm-ups, and one was a thrashing.

As a scotland fan I wouldn't say there was a great deal between Italy and Scotland. I think we will see a better Italy in this 6N

Going by World Cup form though, Italy are the worst pick. They could get better, but I just don't see what is going to drastically change their fortunes. It's not that I dislike Italy, I'm hoping they can get the England scalp this year to add to all others .

Italy were a bit unlucky not to beat Ireland in the World Cup.

As usual, I think the Italy v Scotland game will decide who props up the table. It's in Italy so maybe just advantage Italy but it'll be close.

In Italy that game will be close, but I think Scotland are more capable of beating the other teams, certainly more so than the Azzuri.

Scotland will be good for the 6Ns.  I think they'll force more teams to play their 'top version' of rugby through the contest and make getting to the title a much tougher assignment.

That might mean disappointment for some of the usual selection of 'favourites' but anything that forces teams to perform harder through more games will toughen up the 6Ns.

France too.  They may lack the cutting edge but they're physical, as Ireland found out.  But also they've enough creativity in recent times at our NH levels to score tries.

So all in all, hopefully a much more competitive competition to really condition these damn players to approach the playing standards the WC finalist boys operate at.

mikey_dragon wrote:In Italy that game will be close, but I think Scotland are more capable of beating the other teams, certainly more so than the Azzuri.

Well, neither side has beaten any other nation in the 6Ns for two tournaments (they both beat Ireland in 2013). Italy have beaten France more recently than Scotland have. Neither side's record against Wales or England make good reading.

Lets face it, Scotland get this every 6 nations, we play well in a couple of games (normally autumn tests & not the world cup obviously), we all think we've turned a corner.  We get the famous 'dark horses' title and then we struggle to a close victory/loss against Italy and that's it.

With that said, it's ours this year, stick your house on it....or in reality I think we'll probably win 1-2 games, but it all depends on what happens with England and France.  Both are likely to have new coaches by the time the 6 nations rolls round, and who know's how they'll get on, but in theory those two are our best chances of getting a win outside the traditional cutlery battle with Italy (at the moment).  Wales in Cardiff is not a happy hunting ground for us, and Ireland at the Aviva are probably too good for us as well.

The other wild card is Finn Russell, if he stays fit for the whole tournament that increases our chances of getting a result or two, but if we lose him then we're royally screwed.

My prediction is that Scotland will finish between 6th - 4th, Italy will be between those positions as well, the rest could probably finish anywhere between top and 5th.  You can probably tell I've not put a load of thought into this

Have Scotland really turned a corner? They've gone into 6N campaigns before off the back of wins against Aus/SA (not just near misses, actual wins) and still consistently finished in the bottom two of the table. 6N success has consistently eluded despite some decent World Cups/autumn campaigns in between. Not trying to be pessimistic. At this stage I just can't hold my breath for a stage I've seen set time and time again... with the same conclusion every time. Especially having to play Wales and Ireland away.

Oh we're no that great shakes Knowsit...and without POC!!! (God, we're a third world country without him according to the publicity surrounding his retirement)
Wales will be fit and limber and raring to go again of course... but I do feel a sense that Scotland are beginning to lift out of Italian territory.
Cotter is bedding down, his will is getting through to the players more and more.  Self belief truly is up in the squad.... they have a few players that have come in to give them quite a bit more ballast....

6Ns winners?  Probably not.  But improving all the while? ... I think they are.  If it's another false dawn, then no coach will ever work and it's never going to work in the Professional age.  They have only two domestic clubs, which will always make the effort of consistency difficult; but I think the usual boys at the top of the 6N ratings will have to play them harder to beat them this time.

SecretFly wrote:Oh we're no that great shakes Knowsit...and without POC!!! (God, we're a third world country without him according to the publicity surrounding his retirement)
Wales will be fit and limber and raring to go again of course... but I do feel a sense that Scotland are beginning to lift out of Italian territory.
Cotter is bedding down, his will is getting through to the players more and more.  Self belief truly is up in the squad.... they have a few players that have come in to give them quite a bit more ballast....

6Ns winners?  Probably not.  But improving all the while? ... I think they are.  If it's another false dawn, then no coach will ever work and it's never going to work in the Professional age.  They have only two domestic clubs, which will always make the effort of consistency difficult; but I think the usual boys at the top of the 6N ratings will have to play them harder to beat them this time.  

Do us a favour Fly, and try and set up the match next year at Croker.....cheers pal

Why??????????????????????????????????????????????



You don't need it at Croker, Tattie. Argentina showed you all how to play us...... into the ground .....

One thing I think may have turned a corner for Scotland is the scrum

If it stays like it is, it is now a weapon at best and parity at worst

Over the last few years, we have lost games almost 100% because we did not have a scrum at all - teams did not need to play us, they just needed to push us off the ball - get a penalty and 3 points

Hopefully that will be in the past now, so we can have proper games again

Riskysports wrote:One thing I think may have turned a corner for Scotland is the scrum

If it stays like it is, it is now a weapon at best and parity at worst

Over the last few years, we have lost games almost 100% because we did not have a scrum at all - teams did not need to play us, they just needed to push us off the ball - get a penalty and 3 points

Hopefully that will be in the past now, so we can have proper games again

and having a balanced back row.....
and scoring points in the 2nd half.......
and probably not fearing anyone after the performance against Australia....actually forget that....we were lucky and Oz were woeful.

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Riskysports wrote:One thing I think may have turned a corner for Scotland is the scrum

If it stays like it is, it is now a weapon at best and parity at worst

Over the last few years, we have lost games almost 100% because we did not have a scrum at all - teams did not need to play us, they just needed to push us off the ball - get a penalty and 3 points

Hopefully that will be in the past now, so we can have proper games again

and having a balanced back row.....
and scoring points in the 2nd half.......
and probably not fearing anyone after the performance against Australia....actually forget that....we were lucky and Oz were woeful.

Not to forget that other teams don't have to try as much against us, and don't have to play their best tactics to beat us...

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:

Riskysports wrote:One thing I think may have turned a corner for Scotland is the scrum

If it stays like it is, it is now a weapon at best and parity at worst

Over the last few years, we have lost games almost 100% because we did not have a scrum at all - teams did not need to play us, they just needed to push us off the ball - get a penalty and 3 points

Hopefully that will be in the past now, so we can have proper games again

and having a balanced back row.....
and scoring points in the 2nd half.......
and probably not fearing anyone after the performance against Australia....actually forget that....we were lucky and Oz were woeful.

Not to forget that other teams don't have to try as much against us, and don't have to play their best tactics to beat us...

We can't score tries.
Cannot kick penalties outside 20m and directly in front of the posts.

Jesus, we're going to get proper humped next year.

Yes, lads - I think you are forgetting your place here.

As well you know, Scotland are rubbishy rubbishy poo poo and need it to pour with rain and for the other side to not turn up or the other side to try not to score like those brilliant Australians did and that it doesn't matter if we beat South Africa and Australia in recent years because they never try against us and often only select 12 players to give us a chance and other home nations not also winning against the same Sanzar sides is not relevant and we have slow rubbishy backs who can't score and that Dan Parks guy he is useless and we are just rubbishy because we are always rubbishy and certainly not improving how dare you suggest it and we are useless and should know our place.

About time!

Was beginning to think the Scots were becoming........................ cocky!

Can't be having that, lads.  Not enough room for another 'on their day they could beat anyone' side in the 6Ns!

mikey_dragon wrote:

aqualung wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Well with us all being out of the World Cup I think we can move on and look forward to the worlds premier competition in rugby... My predictions for the final table in 2016 is as follows:
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. Scotland
4. France
5. England
6. Italy

I truly believe Wales are going to be in a strong position by February. We'll still be without some key players but have some players to come back in with the likes of Liam Williams and perhaps JD2. We'll also have some better players to come in, Rob Evans anyone? The fitness and strength levels will still be very high as Gatland has had more time with the guys. It's wales' tournament .

Ireland weren't the greatest going into the World Cup and were a distinct second best to Argentina yesterday. However when it comes to 6 Nations opposition Ireland have had the beating of most of the opposition, evident by winning the last two tournaments. The provincial teams are not far off international standard, so Ireland will also still be playing at a high intensity by Feb.

Scotland I think are improving and this will continue into the 6 Nations. I think third is a realistic target for the team. Playing out of sorts France and England teams at home will help their cause. They now also have the beating of Italy - who only seem to be getting worse and could be without their talismanic captain(?). Glasgow are a good team, Edinburgh are continuing to improve. Both will soon overtake the Welsh domestic teams IMO. This will only help the strength of the Scottish team who finally have a good coach.

I think the bottom 3 will all be with new coaches, France and Italy definitely will be. I think it's a big ask to immediately turn around the fortunes of these teams in such a short space of time and England are no doubt building for the 2027 World Cup anyway...

So over to V2. Who's your pick and why?

ehm..what?.we won in Scotland 5 months ago and Zebre just beat Edinburgh...

Scotland beat you home and away in the rwc warm-ups, and one was a thrashing.

yes indeed, for what it's worth. But it was not me to say we have the beating of Italy. Most of our clashes will Always be bruising and close affairs, at least until the day Scotland will be capable to murder us at ruck and scrum, so that you can you your backplay that is indeed better an more effective than ours

I meant impose your backplay, sorry

That's alright Signor Lung, Scotland have been meaning to impose their backplay for years now but somehow never got round to it either.