Faletau has one more 6 Nations and then MUST be dropped.

So, Taulupe has done it and signed for Bath for next season. Although, I guess the money has played some part, it should meant the end of his international days.

Gatland has already laid down the ground rules, of only 2 players playing outside of Wales being selected (with exception of those signed before the ruling) and with Jamie Roberts signing with the Quins, North resigning with the Saints, Preistland with Bath (although saying he's taking a break from Welsh duties.. mmm) amongst others who have yet to renew/sign contracts, ie Halfpenny. So if Gatland law is going to work, then it has to be enforced.

This brings me to the title of this post... Has this signing put an end to Taulupe's international days or will it just break Gatlands law and re-open the flood gates for players to put hard cash before international loyalties.

If Gatland and the WRU are serious in keeping the best players in Wales, they have to stand up as one on this, and drop a high profile name like Faletau, in the same way England have done with Steffan Armitage.

Who do Wales play at no 8 if not Faletau?

I still think he's one of Wales' most important players.

Steffon Armitage isn't the same. He's not a key England player.

I think the likes of Halfpenny,North,Roberts and Priestland are easier to replace.

Gatland could ignore Taulupe but it's harder to do that when he's so hard to replace.

It's not even as if Taulupe is too old or past his best. He's 25. S.Armitage is 30.

If they do decide to drop Taulupe then won't it be seen as a bit Hypocritical of Gatland and the WRU?

I keep hearing about Gatlands law, about players playing out side Wales and will not get picked for the National side.

However When he Gatland keeps picking Halfpenny, JD2, Roberts. Who have all played over seas.( out side) of Wales Then NO, i don't think this 6ns will be his last. I think he will keep getting selected untill he cannot play either through Injury or loss of form.

The only way to demonstrate that Wales are serious about picking players based in Wales is to drop Faletau. He (and his Agent) have gone for the biggest salary, is it fair to the players who have remained in Wales for Faletau to pick up the same large check for each Wales appearance?

Unfortunately a stand must be made for the good of Welsh rugby, hopefully this will stop the players listening to their greedy agents.

Seagultaf wrote:The only way to demonstrate that Wales are serious about picking players based in Wales is to drop Faletau. He (and his Agent) have gone for the biggest salary, is it fair to the players who have remained in Wales for Faletau to pick up the same large check for each Wales appearance?

Unfortunately a stand must be made for the good of Welsh rugby, hopefully this will stop the players listening to their greedy agents.

Rubbish! Faletau's career could be ended by injury tomorrow. He has to maximise his earnings whilst he is able.

I wonder if people like Seagultaf would turn down a large pay rise if it was offered.

Exiledinborders wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:The only way to demonstrate that Wales are serious about picking players based in Wales is to drop Faletau. He (and his Agent) have gone for the biggest salary, is it fair to the players who have remained in Wales for Faletau to pick up the same large check for each Wales appearance?

Unfortunately a stand must be made for the good of Welsh rugby, hopefully this will stop the players listening to their greedy agents.

Rubbish! Faletau's career could be ended by injury tomorrow. He has to maximise his earnings whilst he is able.

I wonder if people like Seagultaf would turn down a large pay rise if it was offered.

I have no problem with Faletau taking a well paid job with Bath, but why should he also benefit from further significant earnings from his Wales appearances when it was made clear to him that taking the Bath offer would exclude him?

As for whether I would turn down a large pay rise well yes I would and I have. We all have to weigh up the pros and cons of any job offer and I am sure that most of us look at more than just the bottom line.

Was there a 'market value' offer from the regions? If not, it makes no odds, he can be selected.

HammerofThunor wrote:Was there a 'market value' offer from the regions? If not, it makes no odds, he can be selected.

Is this "market value offer" a requirement of the agreement between the regions and the WRU. If so god help us!

Exiledinborders wrote:
Rubbish! Faletau's career could be ended by injury tomorrow. He has to maximise his earnings whilst he is able.

I wonder if people like Seagultaf would turn down a large pay rise if it was offered.

It's not so much a case of people criticising players for changing employers for a large pay rise when they would do the same thing themselves so much as it about saying that if you want to change employers thats fine- just don't be counting on being invited to take part in the prestigious competition the employer whose offer you turned down enters a team into.

He was offered a contract to keep him in Wales and keep him available for test rugby, he chose a different path. None of us are in a position to say there's anything wrong with that as none of us have all the facts of how that was handled; maybe the offer was insufficient, maybe the negotiations were handled poorly, maybe the internal politics poisoned the process. Maybe it was just money- or maybe he just wanted to experience a new competition. I don't know so I won't judge him, but its not judgmental or vindictive for the WRU to prioritise players who choose to sign contracts with the Union and the region to play international rugby for Wales over those who sign on with other teams. And it's not judgmental to advocate that they pursue that policy.

Whether its in their best interests to pursue that policy is another matter.

If Wales take this stance then they need to take it with all overseas players

Nathan, I totally agree... The so called Gatland's Law revolves around not picking a player, playing outside of Wales over another who is, so that the top stream Welsh players play in Wales. There was exceptions, namely, any player who had signed a contract prior to the ruling and allowing Gatland to choose up to 2 players playing outside of Wales. I believe for those on existing contracts outside of Wales, they would find themselves under the ruling as and when their existing contract expires, providing they are offered an alternative contract back in Wales. So North, may be an exception, as I believe no regions offered him a contract to come back, but I'm not sure about that.

Some good points made, not going to address each individually, but just wanted to say, I dont blame Faletau for taking the offer, if that is what he really wanted, and would not blame any player taking the money whilst they can. I do agree, you have to look at the bigger picture, and I myself have turned down 5 job offers, paying between £25k-£50k more than I get working in South Wales. But I have to weigh up other factors, and as my salary in South Wales allows me and my family to have a good life why move to where the cost of living is far higher and hence impact my quality of life just for a few more sheckles every month (which the Tax man will take even more of). So, although I dont blame Faletau for going for the bigger pay day, when you have the salary he is on anyway, will it really make a difference to his quality of life.

But, going back to my opening post and the real reason I raised it. If the WRU and Gatland really want to keep the best players in Wales, then he has to show this "rule" has teeth and enforce it. If he doesn't, then players who are honouring it, such as Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Biggar will wonder why they bothered, and the new youngsters will just start the exodus again.

Exercise the ruling or that will be the end of it..

Nothing I read or hear has convinced me that Gatland will stop picking who he wants when he wants regardless of where they are playing.

I agree that if you have two players in the same position (one in Wales one outside) both playing to the same standard week in week out then the Welsh based player should get the nod however we don't have a No8 anywhere near the standard of Faletau so he gets the nod.

beshocked wrote:Who do Wales play at no 8 if not Faletau?

I still think he's one of Wales' most important players.

Steffon Armitage isn't the same. He's not a key England player.

I think the likes of Halfpenny,North,Roberts and Priestland are easier to replace.

Gatland could ignore Taulupe but it's harder to do that when he's so hard to replace.

It's not even as if Taulupe is too old or past his best. He's 25. S.Armitage is 30.

Before injury Dan Baker was pushing him really hard but he's struggled since coming back from injury, though again he;s only 22/23 so plenty of time on his hands.

One option I would like see given a run at No8 is Moriarty, though he himself is outside Wales though would still be eligible for the time being as was already playing in England before the RSA (with so many loop holes) was signed.

The Blues have Navidi who was in great form last year but the Welsh management don't seem to rate him.

At the Scarlets there is Morgan Allen and Pitman, both again young enough but both have struggled to push onto another level.

Seagultaf wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Was there a 'market value' offer from the regions? If not, it makes no odds, he can be selected.

Is this "market value offer" a requirement of the agreement between the regions and the WRU. If so god help us!

Think so. Charteris referred to it, saying he wouldn't count as a wild card as there was no market value offer from the regions. I suppose Falatau didn't sigh up to a DC when one was offered, so there is the offer.

majesticimperialman wrote:If they do decide to drop Taulupe then won't it be seen as a bit Hypocritical of Gatland and the WRU?

I keep hearing about Gatlands law, about players playing out side Wales and will not get picked for the National side.

However When he Gatland keeps picking Halfpenny, JD2, Roberts. Who have all played over seas.( out side) of Wales Then NO, i don't think this 6ns will be his last. I think he will keep getting selected untill he cannot play either through Injury or loss of form.

No such thing and never has been.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:If they do decide to drop Taulupe then won't it be seen as a bit Hypocritical of Gatland and the WRU?

I keep hearing about Gatlands law, about players playing out side Wales and will not get picked for the National side.

However When he Gatland keeps picking Halfpenny, JD2, Roberts. Who have all played over seas.( out side) of Wales Then NO, i don't think this 6ns will be his last. I think he will keep getting selected untill he cannot play either through Injury or loss of form.

No such thing and never has been.

Agreed, it was a phrase made up by the newspapers.

With regard to North, he also has a contract that allows him release for all Wales games and training, hence Saints getting fined for signing up to it.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:With regard to North, he also has a contract that allows him release for all Wales games and training, hence Saints getting fined for signing up to it.

I wonder if that clause has been retained in his new contract?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:With regard to North, he also has a contract that allows him release for all Wales games and training, hence Saints getting fined for signing up to it.

I wonder if that clause has been retained in his new contract?

Probably be another £60K fine for Saints if it is

HammerofThunor wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:Was there a 'market value' offer from the regions? If not, it makes no odds, he can be selected.

Is this "market value offer" a requirement of the agreement between the regions and the WRU. If so god help us!

Think so. Charteris referred to it, saying he wouldn't count as a wild card as there was no market value offer from the regions.  I suppose Falatau didn't sigh up to a DC when one was offered, so there is the offer.

I read somewhere Charteris was offered a £750k over three years, deal with the Scarlets. Not too sure what his 'market value' is mind, but would have though that offer would have been classed as 'market value'.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

beshocked wrote:Who do Wales play at no 8 if not Faletau?

I still think he's one of Wales' most important players.

Steffon Armitage isn't the same. He's not a key England player.

I think the likes of Halfpenny,North,Roberts and Priestland are easier to replace.

Gatland could ignore Taulupe but it's harder to do that when he's so hard to replace.

It's not even as if Taulupe is too old or past his best. He's 25. S.Armitage is 30.

Before injury Dan Baker was pushing him really hard but he's struggled since coming back from injury, though again he;s only 22/23 so plenty of time on his hands.

One option I would like see given a run at No8 is Moriarty, though he himself is outside Wales though would still be eligible for the time being as was already playing in England before the RSA (with so many loop holes) was signed.

The Blues have Navidi who was in great form last year but the Welsh management don't seem to rate him.

At the Scarlets there is Morgan Allen and Pitman, both again young enough but both have struggled to push onto another level.

I think that just shows the chasm that exists between Faletau and the other no 8s available to Wales.

Faletau has Wales by the short and curlies until there are viable alternatives at no 8.

Also if I was Faletau I would feel a bit upset if he was prevented from playing for Wales but others like Roberts and North were allowed to, they are all chasing the biggest salary they can. Also North re-signed for Saints.

I would say North is more replacable than Faletau.

As said earlier I still can't see Gatland not picking who he wants when he wants. IF he does start sticking to the rules then fine but it has to be across the board and not selective.

nathan wrote:If Wales take this stance then they need to take it with all overseas players

I totaly agree with you here. It does make wonder if Gatlands law is a bit all mouth and no trousers. Every one who has gone abroad ( To play out side of Wales has all ways been picked ) with the Exception of Hook maybe.


But lets look at this in a different light shall we. If Wales do decide to stop Toby playing for Wales. and not ban any other player who play abroad. Could they Wales, Gatland, the WRU, maybe be accused of Racism.

This is a very tricky situation for the whole Gatlands law thing.

majesticimperialman wrote:

nathan wrote:If Wales take this stance then they need to take it with all overseas players

I totaly agree with you here. It does make wonder if Gatlands law is a bit all mouth and no trousers. Every one who has gone abroad ( To play out side of Wales has all ways been picked ) with the Exception of Hook maybe.


But lets look at this in a different light shall we. If Wales do decide to stop Toby playing for Wales. and not ban any other player who play abroad.    Could they Wales, Gatland, the WRU, maybe be accused of Racism.

This is a very tricky situation for the whole Gatlands law thing.

Dwayne Peel is the only player who had an example made of them. And he supposedly went with Gats blessing before all this Gats law stuff kicked off.

Faletau?

First name on the team sheet.

We know it, he knows it and so does WG.

S/S, Forgot about Peel to be honest.

But then was not thinking about him. Thinking more about Halfpeeny. jD2, Jamie Roberts, and Mike Phillips.

Gwlad. I think you might be right about that. First name on the team sheet. That is why i believe he will still get selected.

If rumours are to be believed Peel had big fall out with Howley that's why he never figured.

bedfordwelsh wrote:If rumours are to be believed Peel had big fall out with Howley that's why he never figured.  

True, but then if rumours are true there is a good reason for Hook, Johnathan Thomas and Leigh Byrne all dropping out of favour all at the same time too.

Look guys we are a small nation with a small pool of class players, we need the best team we can put together on every occasion, no matter where they are playing

majesticimperialman wrote:

nathan wrote:If Wales take this stance then they need to take it with all overseas players

I totaly agree with you here. It does make wonder if Gatlands law is a bit all mouth and no trousers. Every one who has gone abroad ( To play out side of Wales has all ways been picked ) with the Exception of Hook maybe.


But lets look at this in a different light shall we. If Wales do decide to stop Toby playing for Wales. and not ban any other player who play abroad.    Could they Wales, Gatland, the WRU, maybe be accused of Racism.

This is a very tricky situation for the whole Gatlands law thing.

Racism?

Risca Rev wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

nathan wrote:If Wales take this stance then they need to take it with all overseas players

I totaly agree with you here. It does make wonder if Gatlands law is a bit all mouth and no trousers. Every one who has gone abroad ( To play out side of Wales has all ways been picked ) with the Exception of Hook maybe.


But lets look at this in a different light shall we. If Wales do decide to stop Toby playing for Wales. and not ban any other player who play abroad.    Could they Wales, Gatland, the WRU, maybe be accused of Racism.

This is a very tricky situation for the whole Gatlands law thing.

Racism?

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If rumours are to be believed Peel had big fall out with Howley that's why he never figured.  

True, but then if rumours are true there is a good reason for Hook, Johnathan Thomas and Leigh Byrne all dropping out of favour all at the same time too.

Hook and JT weren't good enough IMO, Peel was a class above all his peers.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If rumours are to be believed Peel had big fall out with Howley that's why he never figured.  

True, but then if rumours are true there is a good reason for Hook, Johnathan Thomas and Leigh Byrne all dropping out of favour all at the same time too.

Hook and JT weren't good enough IMO, Peel was a class above all his peers.  

Including howler and therein lay the problem

Gwlad wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If rumours are to be believed Peel had big fall out with Howley that's why he never figured.  

True, but then if rumours are true there is a good reason for Hook, Johnathan Thomas and Leigh Byrne all dropping out of favour all at the same time too.

Hook and JT weren't good enough IMO, Peel was a class above all his peers.  

Including howler and therein lay the problem

No arguments of me on that one Gwlad.

Market value is a tricky term. On the global market, it's possible to say that no Welsh player could be offered a "market value" contract because the Premiership and Top 14 teams are playing with different sums of money. But if market value is what the WRU feel is a fair value in the Welsh market, then it would be argued that all the players have received offers at fair market value.

I know in football, if a player under 24 sees out his contract and signs for a new club, the old club is entitled to compensation if they offered the player a new contract on the same or better terms. So maybe it will come down to was the offer on better or equal terms as the last offer (which the player would have obviously accepted initially, and therefore be deemed fair). Although the market has moved on in even 3 years and the players may feel they are better and therefore worth more than 3 years ago.

May end up being one for the lawyers!

Another interesting Peter Jackson article in the Rugby Paper, he quoted Martyn Hazell Dragons director that the fault of Falatau going to Bath can be laid firmly at the door of the WRU, it only needed another £25000, and he would have signed, it said the WRU were only prepared to offer Taulupe the same as what he was on at the Dragons £350000, they were not prepared to go to £375000, although the WRU would only have to give 60% of that, according to the article it appears £350000 is the ceiling that they would stop at, it goes onto say that Leigh Halfpenny would have to have an enormous drop in wages if he was to come back to Wales on a DC.
In the same article he also again blames the WRU for the Scott Williams fiasco, he said Wasps offered more than the WRU were prepared to do, that is when we (Ospreys) put in the increased offer and then the Scarlets matched it. At least us and the Scarlets were prepared to put our money where our mouth is. The WRU were not, they were prepared to just let him go as they have now done with Faletau. This DC debacle has not had a very auspicious start IMO, there are at least 5 who don't deserve it in my eyes, we should be trying to hang on to the players who really matter.

Since when has Gatlands words been worth anything, he'll continue to select him as he does 1/2p, North, JD2 and Phillips!

Gatland has no choice and he knows it.

TightHEAD wrote:Since when has Gatlands words been worth anything, he'll continue to select him as he does 1/2p, North, JD2 and Phillips!

Gatland has no choice and he knows it.

WTF are you on about, are you on the pop or what, JD2 is already back in Wales and Phillips has retired from International Rugby.
Gatland could have had the choice, he decided with Lewis back in 2012 to put in as many clauses as he could and yes he will use anything to put in the players he wants. We were down to our at best 4th choice Outside centre in the recent WC did they let us down, I don't think so.

I agree with this, Faletau has made his choice and he knew what the situation is, yes he would be a massive loss, but it is time for the WRU to finally show some balls in all this, they are coming good with the DC's, now they must stand firm on the rule, that if you are playing in Wales, and you are showing just as much form as a player who is not, then the fact that you are in Wales should give you the nod.

Gatlands words and threats are meaningless, Toby will continue to be selected no matter where he plays rugby.

The point about 1/2P, North, JD2, James and Phillips are that they were selected for Wales when playing overseas so why was it an issue for Toby to play a higher standard of rugby when he was only another 30mins more down the M4?

LordDowlais wrote:I agree with this, Faletau has made his choice and he knew what the situation is, yes he would be a massive loss, but it is time for the WRU to finally show some balls in all this, they are coming good with the DC's, now they must stand firm on the rule, that if you are playing in Wales, and you are showing just as much form as a player who is not, then the fact that you are in Wales should give you the nod.

The problem with that Lord after the 2 player rule, there is this option of a player being as good playing in Wales being nearly as good as Faletau
he (Gatland) has to run this past the Regions, he has to convince the Regions that he is much better than the Welsh playing option.
He will pick Faletau.

TightHEAD wrote:Gatlands words and threats are meaningless, Toby will continue to be selected no matter where he plays rugby.

The point about 1/2P, North, JD2, James and Phillips are that they were selected  for Wales when playing overseas so why was it an issue for Toby to play a higher standard of rugby when he was only another 30mins more down the M4?

I know he will be selected, I've already said so, you've now added another James, if it is Paul James you're talking about, he was denied full access to all Welsh squad sessions, he and Bath had come to an arrangement PRL stepped in and stopped it.
Higher standard of Rugby? are you having a laugh.

Don't think its a massive stretch to say Bath are a better team than Dragons?

TightHEAD wrote:Since when has Gatlands words been worth anything, he'll continue to select him as he does 1/2p, North, JD2 and Phillips!

Gatland has no choice and he knows it.

He does have choice actually but when it comes to TF it is his preference to pick him.

Gwlad wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Since when has Gatlands words been worth anything, he'll continue to select him as he does 1/2p, North, JD2 and Phillips!

Gatland has no choice and he knows it.

He does have choice actually but when it comes to TF it is his preference to pick him.

there's not much of a choice after Faletau at the moment.

johnrgby wrote:Look guys we are a small nation with a small pool of class players, we need the best team we can put together on every occasion, no matter where they are playing

You can't ignore this critical point if you want a Welsh national team to be competitive. Our four regions are producing poor rugby and the pro 12 is a substandard competition. It's no surprise that the best talent in Wales want to play for some decent teams, for decent pay and with a chance of winning something.

Let's get something straight on here shall we, the first 2 names on the selected team would be Falatau and Biggar, and I would say Dan is easier to replace than Taulupe, but is either indispensable, NO, I was worried when we had to go down to first Cory Allen and then Tyler Morgan to replace JD2 and Scott in the recent WC, did they badly let us down, my answer is no.
Richie McCaw, Conrad Smith and Ma Nonu have all just left NZ, will they be replaced by an equivelant player, probably not, Sam Cane will replace Richie and Sonny Bill and Fekitoa will take over from the other 2, those 3 have already been capped a number of times. We will have to try somebody if Taulupe has a serious injury and IMO Moriarty, Navidi, King and even Baker (the last named will give somebody a heart attack) would not let us down badly, none of them are near to Taulupe at the moment, even though the ginger one outplayed him last season in one match which was commented on by BBC pundits, I believe he was MOTM in one of the games.
Gatland as I've said before will pick him, he'll use the final clause, of nobody in the Regional setup is at his standard, the only downside to that for him, is that he has to get PRW to agree to it, personally I hope they say no.

Wales' issue is that there is no consistency.

Personally I think it would be bizarre to pick Moriarty and not Faletau at 8 when both are playing in England regardless of who signed first.

Wales should be doing their utmost to encourage players to stay in Wales but there's no need to cut off your nose to spite your face - Faletau is your best no 8, pick him till you've developed a good enough home grown replacement.

England's tough line has reaped benefits because they have stuck to it but there is also consistency. No Steffon Armitage. There's no player in the England squad outside England.

Yes there is criticism for this policy but it helps English clubs retain players in England which is good for the club and international game.

English players know that if they chase the Euro in France then their international career is effectively over.

With Wales you don't really know where you stand, one rule for one player, one for another.

wayne wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Gatlands words and threats are meaningless, Toby will continue to be selected no matter where he plays rugby.

The point about 1/2P, North, JD2, James and Phillips are that they were selected  for Wales when playing overseas so why was it an issue for Toby to play a higher standard of rugby when he was only another 30mins more down the M4?

I know he will be selected, I've already said so, you've now added another James, if it is Paul James you're talking about, he was denied full access to all Welsh squad sessions, he and Bath had come to an arrangement PRL stepped in and stopped it.
Higher standard of Rugby? are you having a laugh.

He may have been denied access but Gatland still selected him and Bath are a little bit better than Newport, so who can blame Toby for wanting to move.

Chokers Bath are a better team than they once were, but other than a nice amount of money I don't see what else they offer. Toby has spent his career playing at the Dragons and has continued to achieve the highest honours in rugby; the higher standard of rugby in England and France chirp has proven to be a myth on many an occasion.