South Africa vs England 3rd Test 14-18th Jan

First topic message reminder :

The pivotal 3rd Test starts in two days time. England are expected to be unchanged. Dale Steyn is out injured for SA and looks doubtful for the rest of the series, though Kyle Abbott is fit and will come into the frame for selection. Another possible change is someone else to open in the place of Van Zyl

alfie wrote:

kingraf wrote:This attack has potential but it badly needs a spearhead. There isn't a guy who can rein it in when things get bad. Second match in a row we've had England in a spot of bother and just withered away

It is what it is though , raf.  They are all attacking bowlers...they will never contain a Stokes ; but they are always a chance to take a wicket.  If you want the four of them and no spinner that's the risk you take.  Actually working OK for them so far despite that rapid counterattack.

True but a guy like Steyn or Philander would be really good at reining in a batsman on the charge. aren't here and cant do much about it, but I feel we need one of them to REALLY get the value of the tactic. Anyway as you've said, its not going too badly actually. One more wicket and we're into the bowlers who bat

Joe Root might be the best bat I've seen play for England already

My fault for jinxing England...I'll get me coat...





What was I thinking?

ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

Excellent hundred for Joe Root

One of his better ones ,I think ...considering the situation and bouncey track.

Needs to go on still for the team's sake.

Congrats Rooty on a brilliant and much-needed hundred!

Helped steer England out of a very dicey situation.


Blimey its dark now...almost looks like nightfall. Surely the umps will call it a day due to the light...or the wet stuff will start falling...

That shot to bring up his century by Root was pretty much sex on a cricket pitch

My word

Quality by Root, was about time he converted one of those many starts into a century, got every shot in the book.

Root.   The first England no 4 to score a test century in SA since Ken Barrington (according to cricinfo)

Six 50s between this ton and his last.

Olly wrote:That shot to bring up his century by Root was pretty much sex on a cricket pitch

My word

An even better reason to put the covers on than rain!

Excellent near post header for 4 by Root.

kingraf wrote:

alfie wrote:

kingraf wrote:This attack has potential but it badly needs a spearhead. There isn't a guy who can rein it in when things get bad. Second match in a row we've had England in a spot of bother and just withered away

It is what it is though , raf.  They are all attacking bowlers...they will never contain a Stokes ; but they are always a chance to take a wicket.  If you want the four of them and no spinner that's the risk you take.  Actually working OK for them so far despite that rapid counterattack.

True but a guy like Steyn or Philander would be really good at reining in a batsman on the charge. aren't here and cant do much about it, but I feel we need one of them to REALLY get the value of the tactic. Anyway as you've said, its not going too badly actually. One more wicket and we're into the bowlers who bat

Well of course Steyn would make a huge difference ...but Steyns don't grow on trees. If he gets back they have better balance. I rather suspect SA may have to learn to do without him sooner than they'd like though...

I like this Rabada. . Looks very handy. Viljoen I think might be a bit too much of a loose cannon : suspect he has done well not to have played in Cape Town England might have made 800.

Fantastic for Joe to finally convert another 50 to a century - has had a bad habit recently of getting out in the 70s or 80s.

Still work to do for England though, given the poor performance of the top order. We realistically need to get somewhere above 370 to be ahead of the game.

And bad light stops play. Presumably that will be it for the day, especially if the rain comes.

Weather/light calls a halt...

Good timing. I need some sleep. Goodnight all - looking forward to mor good cricket tomorrow.

Doesnt look too dark outside but I don't think conditions will improve. So if that's the minimum light needed I think we're done for the day. 60-40 England

South Africa's morning, Englands day.

We have some special talents in the middle order, seems like the atmosphere is right for them to express themselves.

Could be a long day tomorrow if SA cant make early inroads.

alfie wrote:

Well of course Steyn would make a huge difference ...but Steyns don't grow on trees.  If he gets back they have better balance. I rather suspect SA may have to learn to do without him sooner than they'd like though...
England might have made 800.

Fortunately, for England, Roots do grow under trees.

Good recovery from England. I wouldn't put them ahead just yet, really need a 50 or so lead to counteract the disadvantage of having to bat last - that is still quite a way off.

Another wicket early tomorrow and SA will fancy taking a lead of their own with an out of form Moeen and the hit and miss Broad to come in next

VTR wrote:Good recovery from England. I wouldn't put them ahead just yet, really need a 50 or so lead to counteract the disadvantage of having to bat last - that is still quite a way off.

It was discussed on TMS that Wanderers sometimes has the potential to go flat as the test progresses.

England turned what looked like being a bad day into a fairly decent one thanks to that stand by Stokes and Root. England just ahead but South Africa still well in this. If they can bowl England out for less than their total tomorrow then I'd make them favourites to win the test.

I feel a Jimmy Anderson 30* happening tomorrow

Not sure I'd even put England ahead at the moment - 75 behind and 5 wickets left, and as VTR says, a lead of at least 50 would be needed to compensate for batting 4th. Still lots of work to do, but we are at least in a position to try and push on thanks to Root and Stokes rescuing the bad position we'd got into.

Well balanced match situation - a bad morning tomorrow and we'll be chasing the game. A good one (say Root and Bairstow batting to lunch) and we'll be very strong.

dummy_half wrote:Not sure I'd even put England ahead at the moment - 75 behind and 5 wickets left, and as VTR says, a lead of at least 50 would be needed to compensate for batting 4th. Still lots of work to do, but we are at least in a position to try and push on thanks to Root and Stokes rescuing the bad position we'd got into.

Well balanced match situation - a bad morning tomorrow and we'll be chasing the game. A good one (say Root and Bairstow batting to lunch) and we'll be very strong.

It is on a knife edge without a doubt. As England bat deep then I'd say it would need to be a big collapse from here for them not to pass South Africa's total. A lead of 50 or more for England after the first innings then they will be well-placed.

Saffers have no spinner, so think this batting last lark is being slightly overblown

Can't in all my top on this earth with season tickets to the Wanderers remember a spinner winning a Test match in the fourth innings. 90mph on an up and down pitch isn't easy. Don't know if that's what the pitch will do though

Olly wrote:Saffers have no spinner, so think this batting last lark is being slightly overblown

Hi Olly - you just beat me to making the same point.

Obviously no guarantees but from here England should be looking to at least level South Africa's total and then go on to make some sort of lead. Still very difficult to assess though, as others have pointed out.

As Dummy flagged early today, a major disappointment for England was allowing South Africa's 8th and 10th wickets put on a combined total of nearly 90 runs. Realistically, you often have to accept the frustration of one annoying late wicket partnership but two makes me grumpy!

After South Africa owned the first session, England evened the game through that fabulous partnership between Root and Stokes. Root is one of the finest batsmen going around at present, and Stokes is building his reputation by the day.
England perhaps just a head at the moment as they have Ali and Broad to come in besides these 2. Bairstow has been in fine form with the bat throughout the series and Root has a hundred to his name. The new ball is far away too. So South Africa would need more than a moment of inspiration to come back into the game.
Rabada continues to impress and Morkel produced some brutes in between. Viljoen I have been looking forward to seeing in action, he is fast but not a great first day in test cricket after that first ball wicket that in itself wasn't of the best ball he would ever bowl in his life. South Africa perhaps missing the spin option, the attack is a bit too similar....... Perhaps AB made a colossal mistake by not calling up on the vicious military medium of Styan v!! That's what he's in the side for and it was unforgivable on AB's part.......

kingraf wrote:Can't in all my top on this earth with season tickets to the Wanderers remember a spinner winning a Test match in the fourth innings. 90mph on an up and down pitch isn't easy. Don't know if that's what the pitch will do though

Moeen has never had the chance

alfie wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:Alfie - I suppose an important consideration is whether running on the pitch is just unlucky, stupidly reckless or a mix of gamesmanship and cheating.  

Nearly always very hard to tell and I'm sure some of us will have different views depending on what team the bowler is playing for!

As you suggest, sensible umpiring with an early quiet word should be able to stop most issues arising.

I honestly don't think it is gamesmanship. To actively mess with your delivery and follow through for the sake of wearing the pitch ? When your team is batting last ?  Don't think so...
It is an involuntary action , a consequence of your whole run up to follow through sequence ; and some bowlers are more prone to trespass than others. Like no balling , or clipping the stumps ...can be eradicated by practice ; but not always with ease. So occasional slips are going to happen ; and that is where the particular umpire and his attitude will be significant.

I am pretty sure Jimmy had trouble with this very issue in 2003 against SA , in his first year as a Test bowler. Hasn't often been bothered by it to this degree in recent years... So is it one particular umpire with a bee in his bonnet , or is Jimmy redeveloping an old glitch in his action ?  Perhaps a consequence of recovery from injury ? I am sure the backroom staff will be on to it...but might be hard to fix in the middle of a match. Hope it doesn't mess him up too much in second innings.

Hi Alfie - I liked this comment tonight from Bob Willis:
''Interesting that the umpire can see the bowlers running into that danger area but don't look for front foot no balls.''

For all his abilities as a bowler, James Anderson is a serious thug on field and he often gets a far too lenient treatment for his rowdy behavior. It is time for the England management to tell their senior seamer to behave himself.......
http://www.espncricinfo.com/south-africa-v-england-2015-16/content/story/962589.html

Today, I have a feeling, will be pivotal in how this test will end. Whoever, has the better of it will be in pole position to win it so here is my road map for the day.

South Africa will aim to have a lead after the first innings. By lunch they would want to have bowled England out for no more than 300 by lunch. They'd hope to avoid any great losses of wickets to reach tea on 75 for 1 and they would feel very confident of a win if they could close at around 200 for 3.

England will have their own agenda. They would look to reach lunch on around 320 for 7 (or better) and bat through the afternoon session to reach tea perhaps being bowled out for around 400. They would then look to make inroads into the South African batting line-up reducing them to around 75 for 3 at close still holding a narrow lead whilst into the middle order of the South African batting line-up.

Root falling early on the 3rd day is a big boost to South Africa Bairstow and Ali now looking to settle and build a partnership. Ali could do with a big score here as he hasn't contributed a lot with the bat of late. England 252 for 6 trailing by 61 runs.

Ali and Bairstow building a little partnership here and reducing the deficit. England on 268 for 6 and trail by 45 runs.

Fabulous catch by Vilas to dismiss Ali just as he looked like he had settled. England 279 for 7 are trailing by 34 runs.

This test is fascinatingly poised. It has followed a similar pattern throughout where just when it looks like one team is getting on top the other bites back. At present it is too close to call with England on 286 for 7 trailing South Africa by 27.

I do find some of the commentators views odd. The South African contingent saying if England only have a lead of about 20 then that is not bad. Very odd. South Africa won the toss and elected to bat and when you do that your aim is to bat big and get a first innings lead is it not? England 299 for 7 and Broad looking surprisingly at ease.

Rabada bowls Broad with a cracking set-up and delivery. England now 309 for 8 and they trail by 4 runs.

Finn feathers one and given out on review. England now 311 for 9 and still trail by 2 runs.

The reason for that Craig is due to the detriment of batting last. If they end up basically level after first innings (which looks very likely) then South Africa have a fairly clear advantage (albeit their lack of a spinner may lessen the benefit).

England get a crucial first innings lead as Bairstow top edges for 4. England 315 for 9 and lead by 2.

Born Slippy wrote:The reason for that Craig is due to the detriment of batting last. If they end up basically level after first innings (which looks very likely) then South Africa have a fairly clear advantage (albeit their lack of a spinner may lessen the benefit).

Yes but South Africa still need to bat themselves into a position of strength which evidently they couldn't do after one round of innings so any advantage a team takes into the second innings I'd say gives them the psychological and mathematical edge. Plus pressure comes into this as in South Africa are 1-0 down with a fairly inexperienced team.

England bowled out for 323 and take a lead of 10 into the second innings. Bairstow the last man to fall for 45 - another solid knock to hold the innings together. Rabada takes a five for and he looks the most likely of the new crop of Saffers bowlers to settle into test cricket.

With lunch half an hour away then England will be desperate to bag a wicket or two with the new ball before lunch.

South Africa avoid any loss of early wickets and reach lunch on 16 for 0 and lead by 6 runs. They'll be happy about that little session.

Broad/Anderson have to pull their finger out and start bowling better

Olly wrote:Broad/Anderson have to pull their finger out and start bowling better

I am surprised that Finn hasn't been flung the new ball considering that he has been England's best bowler on this tour. As things stand I'd say the threshold is 250. If South African can post a total in excess of that I cannot see England retrieving the situation.

SA morning then ? England would have wanted a lead of fifty plus...

Game stays wide open though. Don't think this is going to turn into a minefield so if England can bowl SA out again for around 300 they might fancy the target.

(Not seen a ball today ; but I imagine Root going early was the key moment )

Well that's one...Elgar a good early wicket to get.

What wouldn't they give to get Amla early ?

Well Root going so early and still 70 behind then England would have settled for a lead of 10 and xertainly would have when they were 90 for 4.

Broad strikes and dismisses Elgar. South Africa 23 for 1. I cant see England would want to chase too much more than 225 as historically Jo'burg is not noted for fourth innings big run chases.