The Ireland Squad Announcement Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Following on from the discussion on the 'Ireland 2016 Squad' thread which can be found here.

Ireland squad has been announced. It contains four uncapped players- Stuart McCloskey, Ultan Dillane, Josh van der Flier and CJ Stander. However there is no room for Garry Ringrose. Mike Ross, Cian Healy and Chris Henry have all been omitted due to injury but may feature later as they return to fitness in their provincial set-ups.

Ireland Squad RBS 6 Nations 2016 Rounds 1 & 2

Forwards (19)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
CJ Stander (Munster)*
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
Nathan White (Connacht)

Backs (16)

Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Stuart McCloskey (McCloskey/Ulster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster)

*Denotes uncapped player

[profitius]

My forwards based on the 35 man squad


1 James Cronin - powerful in the scrums, strong ball carrier and even throws in the odd offload. McGrath is solid but Cronin MIGHT offer something different. If not starting then from the bench.
2 Best - obviously!
3 Furlong - very young from a tighthead yet but he offers something extra outside the scrums as well as being a potentially strong scrimmager. If he doesn't start he'll be used as an impact sub throughout the tournament IMO.
4 Ryan - hasn't been great this season but he always plays well at international level.
5 Toner - not much choice but a solid option.
6 Ruddock - solid player who can be a lineout option.
7 Van Den Flier - pace, pace, pace! Ireland need more pace especially if we're going to see attacking rugby. VDF isnt massive but half the battle is getting to the breakdown first eg Michael Hooper.
8 SOB - No Heaslip or Stander. SOB is better than both of them and will do Heaslip job and play his normal game as well. Heaslip is technically good but SOB could cope I reckon.

Bench. Cronin, McGrath, White, Stander, McCarthy

[Notch]

profitius, isn't it awesome that I picked a completely different back row but each of them looks equally strong?

[Notch]

Actually I would like to make a change in my team. Stuart McCloskey not to make it into the 23. Luke Marshall to join Henshaw in the centres. Trimble on the bench.

[Marshes]

Ruaidhri O Connor of the Indo tweeting another Ireland International on verge of a move to the Premiership, rumour it is a Munster player (he says definitely not Ulster): https://twitter.com/RuaidhriOC/status/691764801496862721

[Notch]

Robbie Diack and Jared Payne named in Planet Rugby team of the week. Diack could be considered unlucky to miss out on the Ireland squad. He has really become very impressive for me, he's looking more aggressive and making more yards.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/team-of-the-week-champions-cup-12/

[Notch]

Keith Earls to switch to Saracens. Something is really, really rotten in that Munster dressing room.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/munster-shock-as-earls-close-to-saracens-switch-34395724.html

If Earls is leaving I would pick Luke Fitzgerald or Andrew Trimble ahead of him. Seems harsh, but if we reward the player who is staying it will help stem the exodus.

[Notch]

Edit: given some of the rumours about why Earls is moving I would like to withdraw my statement and suggest that he continues to be selected for Ireland.

[GunsGerms]

Keith Earls to switch to Saracens. Something is really, really rotten in that Munster dressing room.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/munster-rugby/munster-shock-as-earls-close-to-saracens-switch-34395724.html

If Earls is leaving I would pick Luke Fitzgerald or Andrew Trimble ahead of him. Seems harsh, but if we reward the player who is staying it will help stem the exodus.

100% agree. Also it is really sad that Earls is leaving.

[Marshes]

Edit: given some of the rumours about why Earls is moving I would like to withdraw my statement and suggest that he continues to be selected for Ireland.

What are the rumours Notch? I'm just seeing family motivations, but I assumed if the source of the story is Earls agents then it is standard enough practice to distance yourself from financial motivations.

[Notch]

I read a rumour that he has moved to London so his sick child can be closer to medical experts. I don't know if thats true or if his child is even sick, but if it is true that is exactly what the RFU mean when they say that 'players playing overseas can only be selected in exceptional circumstances'. You're not going to get a better exception than that are you.

Regardless of whether or not it is true I plan to not leap to conclusions next time a player leaves.

[Sin é]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

[Sin é]

Keith Earls to switch to Saracens. Something is really, really rotten in that Munster dressing room.

All the Provincial Munster contracts are going through fine, so I don't think that is true.

The problem/delay is with the players on central contracts like Murray and Keith Earls.

[Notch]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

As I say, moving for that reason shouldn't disqualify a player from Ireland duty.

[munkian]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

As I say, moving for that reason shouldn't disqualify a player from Ireland duty.

Having spent a few years there it is an amazing hospital but don't Ireland have an equivalent ?

[maestegmafia]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

As I say, moving for that reason shouldn't disqualify a player from Ireland duty.

Here here

Likewise in Wales North wanted to be closer to his cyclist girlfriend who trains in England.

[BamBam]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

As I say, moving for that reason shouldn't disqualify a player from Ireland duty.

Here here

Likewise in Wales North wanted to be closer to his cyclist girlfriend who trains in England.

Sorry, are you honestly comparing the two?

[Golden]

So Sexton didnt fail his HIA on the weekend and was just removed as a precaution according to Leinster. Pretty sure they said otherwise the other day. Either way still very worrying.

[Sin é]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

As I say, moving for that reason shouldn't disqualify a player from Ireland duty.

Having spent a few years there it is an amazing hospital but don't Ireland have an equivalent ?

Not really. The existing Children's Hospital is a shambles from the point of view of facilities and the building of a new hospital has been bogged down in political shinigans, though  in saying that the disease (Primary Cilia Dyskinesia) is fairly rare and so would likely have few sufferers in Ireland and little expertise in its treatment.

[munkian]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

As I say, moving for that reason shouldn't disqualify a player from Ireland duty.

Having spent a few years there it is an amazing hospital but don't Ireland have an equivalent ?

Not really. The existing Children's Hospital is a shambles from the point of view of facilities and the building of a new hospital has been bogged down in political shinigans, though  in saying that the disease (Primary Cilia Dyskinesia) is fairly rare and so would likely have few sufferers in Ireland and little expertise in its treatment.

Fairy nuff, she'll be well looked after there anyway - although Quins would be a better bet as they often have the hospital on their shirts.

[LeinsterFan4life]

From Thornley's piece:

"The prospect of paying in the region of £250,000 (€328,000) compensation to Wasps in light of Marty Moore having signed a heads of agreement with the Premiership club left Leinster with little option but to reluctantly give up on their attempts to keep the 24-year-old tight-head.
After several weeks of negotiations with Leinster, who followed up a one-year offer with a reduced two-year contract, Moore decided to accept the three-year deal on the table from Wasps. As reported in The Irish Times two weeks ago, he informed team-mates and Leinster management of his decision to join the Coventry-based Premiership club.

Informed of Moore’s decision, and on foot of The Irish Times report, Leo Cullen, Joe Schmidt and Ireland scrum coach Greg Feek all re-entered the fray and strove to persuade the player to remain.
After days of discussions, Moore was of a mind to stay put, but Wasps were determined to complete the signing. Legal advice was sought by both parties, and with Wasps entitled to roughly one year of his salary as compensation should the deal have fallen through, Leinster backed down.

Whatever his fate with Ireland over the ensuing three seasons, his loss is significant for Leinster, all the more so given the IRFU are not permitting the provinces to sign overseas tightheads, even though they downgraded Ross from an international to a provincial contract, leaving Leinster to conclude deals with both tightheads.
They have re-signed the 36-year-old Ross for one year, but have lost out on his 24-year-old understudy. "

[Golden]

Surely its strange that he signed a contract with Wasps before letting Leinster know of his intentions? Especially if a bigger counter-offer would have persuaded him to stay put.

[True Raven]

Why would you offer a 24 year old with potential a one year offer? Surely a long term deal on a cheaper salary before becoming a regular international shoots up his salary

[Marshes]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

Absolutely fair enough then, I did some work with the mental health service at GOSH, top notch. Also my partner was treated there when she was a kid and had only good things to say.

Hope Earls and family get the support they need.

[LeinsterFan4life]

Surely its strange that he signed a contract with Wasps before letting Leinster know of his intentions? Especially if a bigger counter-offer would have persuaded him to stay put.

Apparently Nucifora was away on holidays when this was all going down.

[profitius]

profitius, isn't it awesome that I picked a completely different back row but each of them looks equally strong?

Plenty of depth there alright!

I think Schmidt will go with Ruddock, SOB, Heaslip with Stander on the bench.

[Notch]

Sounds like Martin Moore might have made a big mistake. One year contract for Mike Ross, one year contract for Martin Moore. Mike Ross retires at the end of his contract hypothetically doubling the amount available to Leinster to pay for a tight head after a year. Martin Moore takes over Ross' contract long term. He went for money in the short-term.

Seems like the English clubs are all sweet talk and then when players sign it's you'll turn up for work or you can pay us off. They'll say thats completely fair and common place, and I agree. However I also think them taking this stance seems more about beating Leinster than coming together to make the best decision for the player's future. I probably wouldn't want to work for them as much as the IRFU- its interesting to note that Ulster voluntarily released Lewis Stevenson from his contract yesterday to allow him to pursue other opportunities when an English club came calling and also released Xavier Rush. Munster voluntarily released Paul O'Connell to Toulon. I hope that if Piutau decides to welsh on the Ulster deal we act like Wasps did and say no, considering Ulster and the IRFU facilitated that transfer for them. I also hope that Wasps respect for the sanctity of contracts extends to Piutau.

I wonder if Cardiff or Exeter paid a transfer fee to Ulster, or if the IRFU got the kind of transfer fee Wasps wanted when they released O'Connell to Toulon. Are the IRFU being played for saps? It seems we are doing well in retaining our best talent in Ulster and maybe saying to players fair play if you want to leave but the door is open to come back makes them feel more valued than offering them very little and expecting them to stick around regardless.

What I would say is that its insane that Leo Cullen, Greg Feek and Joe Schmidt were not involved in the contract negotiations of a future first choice Ireland international. That is literally an insane way of doing business. How do you give Nucifora a five year contract and expect players to be happy when he says they should be getting a one year contract? That can only work out one way because they're getting more job offers than he is. If you're going to lowball them, at least put them in a room with people they trust and respect.

[Golden]

Sounds like Martin Moore might have made a big mistake. One year contract for Mike Ross, one year contract for Martin Moore. Mike Ross retires at the end of his contract hypothetically doubling the amount available to Leinster to pay for a tight head after a year. Martin Moore takes over Ross' contract long term. He went for money in the short-term.

Seems like the English clubs are all sweet talk and then when players sign it's you'll turn up for work or you can pay us off. They'll say thats completely fair and common place, and I agree. However I also think them taking this stance seems more about beating Leinster than coming together to make the best decision for the player's future. I probably wouldn't want to work for them as much as the IRFU- its interesting to note that Ulster voluntarily released Lewis Stevenson from his contract yesterday to allow him to pursue other opportunities when an English club came calling and also released Xavier Rush. Munster voluntarily released Paul O'Connell to Toulon. I hope that if Piutau decides to welsh on the Ulster deal we act like Wasps did and say no, considering Ulster and the IRFU facilitated that transfer for them. I also hope that Wasps respect for the sanctity of contracts extends to Piutau.

I wonder if Cardiff or Exeter paid a transfer fee to Ulster, or if the IRFU got the kind of transfer fee Wasps wanted when they released O'Connell to Toulon. Are the IRFU being played for saps? It seems we are doing well in retaining our best talent in Ulster and maybe saying to players fair play if you want to leave but the door is open to come back makes them feel more valued than offering them very little and expecting them to stick around regardless.

What I would say is that its insane that Leo Cullen, Greg Feek and Joe Schmidt were not involved in the contract negotiations of a future first choice Ireland international. That is literally an insane way of doing business. How do you give Nucifora a five year contract and expect players to be happy when he says they should be getting a one year contract? That can only work out one way because they're getting more job offers than he is. If you're going to lowball them, at least put them in a room with people they trust and respect.

Did Ulster not get a nice pay off for letting Rush stay in Cardiff? Thought i read that at the time

[Notch]

The truth is I am not party to the accounts of Ulster or the IRFU. I haven't looked at the information that is in the public domain but as far as I can remember the income isn't broken down into separate sources in the publicly available accounts.

[True Raven]

But isn't it leinsters fault for offering him a years contract? You cant blame a player for wanting a long term contract to secure his future.

[Notch]

But isn't it leinsters fault for offering him a years contract?  You cant blame a player for wanting a long term contract to secure his future.

Not at all. Moore seems relatively blameless in this. If Wasps release him for training camps over Christmas he could be in the mix, but if not he shouldn't.

Injuries might force us to use him but how convenient for the IRFU he's sitting out the whole Six Nations with one just as this comes around.

[Sin é]

Right. It seems that IRFU have offered Earls a reduced 2 year IRFU contract (and the leak about family  issues came from IRFU).

Earls wants a longer contract as he will be 30 when this contract finishes.

Munster have fairly strongly put that they want to keep Keith and its up to the IRFU to negotiate to keep him.

[Marshes]

Now John Andress to Munster: http://www.the42.ie/john-andress-munster-tighthead-prop-2568746-Jan2016/

Jesus when it rains it pours, must be part of the storm from the US!

Also hear that Olding could be back this weekend? Be great to see him get a good run over the six nations and rest of the season, and be in contention for the summer.

[rodders]

Did Ulster not get a nice pay off for letting Rush stay in Cardiff? Thought i read that at the time

Yes they did, Rush personally bought out his contract.

Moving to Wasps is a good move for Moore - he'll find it tough but will learn a lot under Dai Young.

Apparently the IRFU tried to force him to move to Munster with a 3 year deal vs a 2 year reduced contract at Leinster and it backfired, when they offered the same terms at Leinster he'd already signed for Wasps.

Earls isn't worth a big contract, good wingers are ten a penny, he's 28 with a very poor injury record. If he can get better deal elsewhere then good luck to him but the IRFU should play hard ball here with some of these guys.

[Golden]

So when Botha is gone, are they expecting Andress and Archer to fill that gap? Very wishful thinking IMO.

Are they still looking to convert Cronin?

[Sin é]

Earls isn't worth a big contract, good wingers are ten a penny, he's 28 with a very poor injury record. If he can get better deal elsewhere then good luck to him but the IRFU should play hard ball here with some of these guys.

Really kind of Saracens then to offer an injury prone Earls a big fat 3 year contract, particularly when good wingers are 10 a penny.

[Sin é]

So when Botha is gone, are they expecting Andress and Archer to fill that gap? Very wishful thinking IMO.

Are they still looking to convert Cronin?

John Ryan is the one being converted to TH.

[rodders]

Earls isn't worth a big contract, good wingers are ten a penny, he's 28 with a very poor injury record. If he can get better deal elsewhere then good luck to him but the IRFU should play hard ball here with some of these guys.

Really kind of Saracens then to offer an injury prone Earls a big fat 3 year contract, particularly when good wingers are 10 a penny.

Well they are quite good at wasting money

[Notch]

Well they are quite good at wasting money

Can you imagine what some posters would say if the IRFU had £45million debt on their books?

[Sin é]

Well they are quite good at wasting money

Can you imagine what some posters would say if the IRFU had £45million debt on their books?

It says more about them that they don't. They seem quite happy to run the provinces into the ground!

My conspiracy theory is that the IRFU want to destroy the Provinces as they are now (with strong identities) and introduce a single national academy that all players will go through and then be allocated as needed to each of the Provinces.

Its going to be painful for a while yet to be a provincial fan.

[Notch]

See, but a National Academy sounds like a really good idea to me. Irish Rugby isn't a democracy but if it was I would definitely vote for that idea.

Maybe Nucifora is going to be both the best AND worst thing that has ever happened to rugby in Ireland.

[Notch]

It's so funny that you'd think the biggest divide in Irish Rugby would be between North and South, but it's actually between the urban and the rural.

[marty2086]

Well they are quite good at wasting money

Can you imagine what some posters would say if the IRFU had £45million debt on their books?

It says more about them that they don't. They seem quite happy to run the provinces into the ground!

My conspiracy theory is that the IRFU want to destroy the Provinces as they are now (with strong identities) and introduce a single national academy that all players will go through and then be allocated as needed to each of the Provinces.

Its going to be painful for a while yet to be a provincial fan.

Saracens have debt because they have a sugar daddy 'loaning' them money, who would you like to be the IRFUs sugar daddy?

[Notch]

Probably that bloke, what's his name. He owns all the horses. Had that fight with Alex Ferguson.

Rock of Gibraltar was the horse right?

[marty2086]

Probably that bloke, what's his name. He owns all the horses. Had that fight with Alex Ferguson.

Rock of Gibraltar was the horse right?

Magnier?

Would you trust him? His gifts apparently have to be returned sure

[Notch]

You don't think Craig and Boudjellal aren't like that? They put so much money into their teams they felt entitled to restructure the entire competition!

[rodders]

Well they are quite good at wasting money

Can you imagine what some posters would say if the IRFU had £45million debt on their books?

It says more about them that they don't. They seem quite happy to run the provinces into the ground!

My conspiracy theory is that the IRFU want to destroy the Provinces as they are now (with strong identities) and introduce a single national academy that all players will go through and then be allocated as needed to each of the Provinces.

Its going to be painful for a while yet to be a provincial fan.

Saracens have debt because they have a sugar daddy 'loaning' them money, who would you like to be the IRFUs sugar daddy?

Bono?

[Sin é]

Probably that bloke, what's his name. He owns all the horses. Had that fight with Alex Ferguson.

Rock of Gibraltar was the horse right?

Magnier?

Would you trust him? His gifts apparently have to be returned sure

Not Magnier, JP McManus who sponsors everything that moves in Limerick. Very generous man. Loves his sport, particularly GAA.

[marty2086]

You think he'd have £40m to give away?

[Sin é]

He gave away 40m in 2014 to local causes.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/community/90295/Limerick-s-JP-McManus-donating-.html

[maestegmafia]

Earls' daughter suffers from a rare respiratory disease (you may remember he missed playing in a 6Ns game because she was ill at her birth). The proximity to Great Ormond Street Hospital could be the motivation.

Some in the know also saying that the length of contract offered (2 years) is a big issue.

As I say, moving for that reason shouldn't disqualify a player from Ireland duty.

Here here

Likewise in Wales North wanted to be closer to his cyclist girlfriend who trains in England.

Sorry, are you honestly comparing the two?

Just that they both have personal reasons for playing rugby elsewhere

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