The Ireland Squad Announcement Thread

[Notch]

First topic message reminder :

Following on from the discussion on the 'Ireland 2016 Squad' thread which can be found here.

Ireland squad has been announced. It contains four uncapped players- Stuart McCloskey, Ultan Dillane, Josh van der Flier and CJ Stander. However there is no room for Garry Ringrose. Mike Ross, Cian Healy and Chris Henry have all been omitted due to injury but may feature later as they return to fitness in their provincial set-ups.

Ireland Squad RBS 6 Nations 2016 Rounds 1 & 2

Forwards (19)

Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) Captain
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster)
Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht)*
Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) Vice Captain
Rob Herring (Ballynahinch/Ulster)
Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Martin Moore (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster)
Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster)
Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
CJ Stander (Munster)*
Richardt Strauss (Old Wesley/Leinster)
Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)*
Nathan White (Connacht)

Backs (16)

Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht)
Paddy Jackson (Dungannon/Ulster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster)
Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht)
Luke Marshall (Ballymena/Ulster)
Stuart McCloskey (McCloskey/Ulster)*
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Jared Payne (Ulster)
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster)

*Denotes uncapped player

[GunsGerms]

Apparently Stander will be starting.

[RubyGuby]

I think he will play Payne, McCloskey and Henshaw

[eirebilly]

Your powers of deduction never cease to amaze me guru

[geoff999rugby]

I think he will play Payne, McCloskey and Henshaw

Not according to the papers

[RubyGuby]

I know Geoff, the papers are like Gatland and they don't like change so the Kearney's it will be

I think Schmidt is getting confused with the fact that its the Blarney Stone not the Kearney Stone that brings you luck - That's the price you pay when you get a foreign coach

[PenfroPete]

When is the team announcement lads ?

[geoff999rugby]

I know Geoff, the papers are like Gatland and they don't like change so the Kearney's it will be

I think Schmidt is getting confused with the fact that its the Blarney Stone not the Kearney Stone that brings you luck - That's the price you pay when you get a foreign coach

Like Scotland, Wales, Italy and England you mean

Luckily the French have French coaches and therefore their selection is the most sensible....no wait that does not compute

[marty2086]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dpjfCRszR0

For anyone wanting to watch the announcement

[Notch]

Ireland team:

Zebo, Trimble, Payne, Henshaw, Earls; Sexton, Muray; Mcgrath, Best (c), White; Toner, McCarthy; Stander, O'Donnell, Heaslip.

S. Cronin, J. Cronin, Furlong, Ryan, Ruddock, Marmion, Madigan, D. Kearney

[the-goon]

15. Simon Zebo (Cork Con/Munster) 21
14. Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster) 58
13. Jared Payne (Ulster) 10
12. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 15
11. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 46
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 56
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 42

1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 25
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 89 Captain
3. Nathan White (Connacht) 8
4. Mike McCarthy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 17
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 31
6. CJ Stander (Munster)*
7. Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 9
8. Jamie Heaslip (Dublin University/Leinster) 80 Vice-Captain

Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 48
17. James Cronin (Dolphin/Munster) 2
18. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 3
19. Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster) 34
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 6
21. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 4
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock College/Leinster) 25
23. David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) 14

[RubyGuby]

Ireland team as expected

[the-goon]

I'm underwelmed.

No McCloskey, no SOB, Payne at 13, Zebo starting

Advantage Wales

[carpet baboon]

I like the bench. Back row looks good. Backs I would have done differently.I'm hoping for a performance.

[wolfball]

I am really shocked by people's attitudes... we went from one of the most capped teams in the RWC to a team missing hugely influential players and people seem to expect a wolfhounds team... the average caps we have named are:

Backs, 35
Forwards, 32
Subs, 17

If that's not a team in rebuilding mode, I don't know what is...

[GunsGerms]

Perfectly good team. Bring on Sunday.

[Golden]

Marmion Im pleasantly surprised at.

A lot of impact on the bench for the front 5 and half backs.

[Blanko]

Is Schmidt really picking this team ?
It's full of yesteryear players (sexton -12 mths since a good game and an injury liability now, Heaslip), out of form players (Kearney), and players who if they play to their best are barely good enough at this level (Zebo, Earls).

Can't believe he doesn't  trust the form players when they are in form. It's like hey we won last year with these players so same again youve earned it

It doesn't give the fans and excitement factor. JS used to be so innovative.

Disappointed but excited for Stander

[clivemcl]

Here's the thing...

If you can't get international gametime off the back of fantastic club form... what else are you expected to do? I just hope Joe is managing these players well. You could understand a few players being well and truly miffed by their treatment.

[Golden]

I think we'll have them in the scrum for the full 80. Hopefully we can match them in the lineout. The breakdown Id be worried about though. Big challenge for TOD

[wolfball]

Here's the thing...

If you can't get international gametime off the back of fantastic club form... what else are you expected to do? I just hope Joe is managing these players well. You could understand a few players being well and truly miffed by their treatment.

The only players who can be miffed are McCloskey and Jackson. And the truth is, with missing leaders (POC, POM, SOB, Sexton, BEST, RKearney were are our defined leaders (and Payne the backline defensive leader) in the RWC - only two of the senior leaders are in this team), you need other leaders, ie Sexton/Payne drilling our defense aganst the best midfield in the tournament. So that's why Jackson misses out. I think McCloskey is unlucky, and I would have picked him, but our midfield is barely bedded in, has been proven to work against some of the very best teams (SA, Aus) and is worth continuing with. McCloskey will play this 6 Nations, but we have three super tough games. I want us to win them. And with such an inexperienced team, adding more debutants will not help our cause.

[profitius]

Its not as bad as people make out. The glaring omission is McCloskey who has been one of the form players in Europe this season. Schmidt does love to play players out of position and form means nothing to him.

Positives. Marmion, James Cronin, Furlong on the bench, Stander starting. More dangerous back 3 than the world cup.

Theres still enough firepower there to take care of Wales.

[Sin é]

Far from me to defend Schmidt, but I can understand why he would look to keep some existing partnerships - like Toner & McCarthy, Stander & TOD, Murray, Sexton, Henshaw etc etc.

McCloskey was never a runner against Wales as he hasn't been involved long enough. Perhaps we might see a Jackson - McCloskey - Payne midfield at some stage during the tournament.

Good to see Marmion in the 23 (though I doubt if we will see much of him).

Delighted for CJ - he has worked very hard and put his heart into this. He is a real warrior.

[JmD]

Stander aside, I'm incredibly underwhelmed by this. Every match thread for the past year has been filled with "McCloskey has to play for Ireland ASAP!", yet here we are with the same old boring backline. The injury to Kearney gave Schmidt the perfect opportunity to drop Jared back to his best position, play Henshaw in his best position and play McCloskey at 12. Only in Ireland would this kind of conservative selection in direct contrast to form and logic be accepted.

[marty2086]

Far from me to defend Schmidt, but I can understand why he would look to keep some existing partnerships - like Toner & McCarthy, Stander & TOD, Murray, Sexton, Henshaw etc etc.

McCloskey was never a runner against Wales as he hasn't been involved long enough. Perhaps we might see a Jackson - McCloskey - Payne midfield at some stage during the tournament.

Good to see Marmion in the 23 (though I doubt if we will see much of him).

Delighted for CJ - he has worked very hard and put his heart into this. He is a real warrior.

Sin sorry but you contradict yourself with that statement, McCloskeys been involved as long as Stander and has an existing partnership with Payne

[GunsGerms]

Stander aside, I'm incredibly underwhelmed by this. Every match thread for the past year has been filled with "McCloskey has to play for Ireland ASAP!", yet here we are with the same old boring backline. The injury to Kearney gave Schmidt the perfect opportunity to drop Jared back to his best position, play Henshaw in his best position and play McCloskey at 12. Only in Ireland would this kind of conservative selection in direct contrast to form and logic be accepted.

Really don't get why people care about selection so much and on top of that why every year without fail there are cries for new caps, for transition and "picking on form" etc.

There is much more to selection that picking on form and the team under Schmidt constantly evolves. Joe Schmidt like most good coaches never selects 15 individuals, as far as I can tell he selects players based on what he wants to get from a team. Therefore, for me it is virtually irrelevant who he picks provided we do well. I don't even care how he sets the team out provided he gets everyone to buy into the game plan and as a team we consistently deliver.

Last year we lost 1 competitive game badly. Every other game we were either highly competitive or we won. I have faith that this trend will continue.

[Sin é]

Far from me to defend Schmidt, but I can understand why he would look to keep some existing partnerships - like Toner & McCarthy, Stander & TOD, Murray, Sexton, Henshaw etc etc.

McCloskey was never a runner against Wales as he hasn't been involved long enough. Perhaps we might see a Jackson - McCloskey - Payne midfield at some stage during the tournament.

Good to see Marmion in the 23 (though I doubt if we will see much of him).

Delighted for CJ - he has worked very hard and put his heart into this. He is a real warrior.

Sin sorry but you contradict yourself with that statement, McCloskeys been involved as long as Stander and has an existing partnership with Payne

McCloskey does not have an existing partnership with Sexton. That is why I'm saying that we might see a Jackson, McCloskey, Payne line out later in the tournament.

[JmD]

Stander aside, I'm incredibly underwhelmed by this. Every match thread for the past year has been filled with "McCloskey has to play for Ireland ASAP!", yet here we are with the same old boring backline. The injury to Kearney gave Schmidt the perfect opportunity to drop Jared back to his best position, play Henshaw in his best position and play McCloskey at 12. Only in Ireland would this kind of conservative selection in direct contrast to form and logic be accepted.

Really don't get why people care about selection so much and on top of that why every year without fail there are cries for new caps, for transition and "picking on form" etc.

There is much more to selection that picking on form and the team under Schmidt constantly evolves. Joe Schmidt like most good coaches never selects 15 individuals, as far as I can tell he selects players based on what he wants to get from a team. Therefore, for me it is virtually irrelevant who he picks provided we do well. I don't even care how he sets the team out provided he gets everyone to buy into the game plan and as a team we consistently deliver.

Last year we lost 1 competitive game badly. Every other game we were either highly competitive or we won. I have faith that this trend will continue.

The last time we saw them, Ireland put in the undeniable worst performance of the Schmidt era. Even when they were winning games, there was plenty of criticism of the level of performance and lack of any spark. If the selection doesn't change, and we know the SYSTEM^TM won't change, then why should we expect the performances to change?

[Notch]

Stander aside, I'm incredibly underwhelmed by this. Every match thread for the past year has been filled with "McCloskey has to play for Ireland ASAP!", yet here we are with the same old boring backline.

I can remember some people saying that they were disappointed he wasn't included in the wider training squad for the World Cup in the summer... can only remember his name being mentioned as a possible wildcard/bolter selection for the World Cup squad before this Six Nations.

[Notch]

Stander aside, I'm incredibly underwhelmed by this. Every match thread for the past year has been filled with "McCloskey has to play for Ireland ASAP!", yet here we are with the same old boring backline. The injury to Kearney gave Schmidt the perfect opportunity to drop Jared back to his best position, play Henshaw in his best position and play McCloskey at 12. Only in Ireland would this kind of conservative selection in direct contrast to form and logic be accepted.

Really don't get why people care about selection so much and on top of that why every year without fail there are cries for new caps, for transition and "picking on form" etc.

There is much more to selection that picking on form and the team under Schmidt constantly evolves. Joe Schmidt like most good coaches never selects 15 individuals, as far as I can tell he selects players based on what he wants to get from a team. Therefore, for me it is virtually irrelevant who he picks provided we do well. I don't even care how he sets the team out provided he gets everyone to buy into the game plan and as a team we consistently deliver.

Last year we lost 1 competitive game badly. Every other game we were either highly competitive or we won. I have faith that this trend will continue.

The last time we saw them, Ireland put in the undeniable worst performance of the Schmidt era. Even when they were winning games, there was plenty of criticism of the level of performance and lack of any spark. If the selection doesn't change, and we know the SYSTEM^TM won't change, then why should we expect the performances to change?

As I've said two-thirds of the team is different between this game and the last game. As far as tactics go, we've consistently varied our tactics more than any other Ireland side I can ever remember.

[JmD]

As I've said two-thirds of the team is different between this game and the last game. As far as tactics go, we've consistently varied our tactics more than any other Ireland side I can ever remember.

The only change between that team and this team that isn't injury related is Dave Kearney, who is somehow still on the bench.

[clivemcl]

Nope, still not signing up to this. If Rob Kearney was playing it would have at least been more expected.

But seriously... Joe HAS to know that Payne is considerably better at 15 than Zebo. The dog in the street knows it. And it's not like moving Payne leaves us weak in the center. Has McCloskey given ANY reason to doubt his international credibility? He's one of the the form centers in Europe.

We played Murray, Sexton, Henshaw, Payne against Wales last year and we lost. Henshaw and Payne were not a great partnership in that game.

I'm not sure I buy the leadership thing. Besides... some guys won't shout their way to leadership roles, but when they are thrown in and trusted, you will find they will naturally become leaders with the confidence being put in them. For me, Jackson particularly fits this bill. He is no shrinking violet, and is a very clear and decisive player with plenty of balls.

It may be an 'ok' selection. But the majority of those watching form would no doubt have given chances where deserved.

[GunsGerms]

The last time we saw them, Ireland put in the undeniable worst performance of the Schmidt era. Even when they were winning games, there was plenty of criticism of the level of performance and lack of any spark. If the selection doesn't change, and we know the SYSTEM^TM won't change, then why should we expect the performances to change?

I'd say Schmidt's 2nd game in charge (against Australia) was his worst.

Schmidt's tactics in his two six nations are different for practically every game. While some things remain the same there are always different tactics. Also its easier to change things up in the six nations with two rest weekends. In the WC with a building injury list, more matches and no break between your last game it is much harder to change the script.

[JmD]

Nope, still not signing up to this. If Rob Kearney was playing it would have at least been more expected.

But seriously... Joe HAS to know that Payne is considerably better at 15 than Zebo. The dog in the street knows it. And it's not like moving Payne leaves us weak in the center. Has McCloskey given ANY reason to doubt his international credibility? He's one of the the form centers in Europe.

We played Murray, Sexton, Henshaw, Payne against Wales last year and we lost. Henshaw and Payne were not a great partnership in that game.

I'm not sure I buy the leadership thing. Besides... some guys won't shout their way to leadership roles, but when they are thrown in and trusted, you will find they will naturally become leaders with the confidence being put in them. For me, Jackson particularly fits this bill. He is no shrinking violet, and is a very clear and decisive player with plenty of balls.

It may be an 'ok' selection. But the majority of those watching form would no doubt have given chances where deserved.

Absolutely agree. Payne playing fullback not only gives us a better fullback, but it also gets our 2 best centres on the field. It's a win-win situation. Remember when Henshaw and Payne were first selected together and people thought it was a stopgap? Well now there's a better option, but for some reason Schmidt is unwilling to move on from the stopgap.

[GunsGerms]

As I've said two-thirds of the team is different between this game and the last game. As far as tactics go, we've consistently varied our tactics more than any other Ireland side I can ever remember.

Bullseye Notch. Absolutely right.

[Notch]

As I've said two-thirds of the team is different between this game and the last game. As far as tactics go, we've consistently varied our tactics more than any other Ireland side I can ever remember.

The only change between that team and this team that isn't injury related is Dave Kearney, who is somehow still on the bench.

Yeah and he's clearly on the bench because of injuries to other players! Bowe, his brother, Fitzgerald all out and he still doesn't make the 15. He's clearly fallen down the pecking order quite a bit.

It's crazy to see the revisionism thats going on regarding the Argentina game.

1) Before the game we lost key leaders and organising voices in the team- O'Connell, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Sexton and Payne were all ruled out. Those are devastating losses for a World Cup quarter-final regardless of tactics or systems.
2) Despite criticisms of our attack, we lost because of our defence and our backlines failure to put pressure on them where to mattered. We defended really, really badly- both systematically badly, and we also had individual players making bad decisions and bad reads. We were far too passive in the midfield and too narrow- we essentially allowed their talented playmakers oodles of space to pick their passes and their talented wingers oodles of space to run into.
3)There are two reasons you could suggest this happened. Sexton and Paynes absence, depriving us of the two most important players in the back line, and Les Kiss' defensive system. We didn't go out with a good strategy to stop their attacking game and we didn't have leadership on the field to adapt to what was happening. Perhaps I'm wrong and will be proven wrong, but those seem to be the two most likely explanations for what happened to our defence in that game.
4)However Les Kiss is not part of the coaching team anymore, similarly Schmidt has recalled Sexton and Payne against the 'wisdom' of some of the experts on here. Not a bad move to rely on experience in the backs considering he is picking from an even more injury-stricken deck up from forwards. We will probably suffer from not integrating our new defensive coach until the summer tour and missing a lot of key forwards, but if we do struggle this will probably be attributed to not picking an uncapped centre and picking a guy who hasn't yet started a test match at fullback in a different position.
5) Finally we went out with the intention of attacking Argentina and keeping the ball in hand! Whether that was the original plan or the plan was up in the air after starting terribly, Madigan barely kicked the ball and we scored two superb tries- not that it matters a bit if you can't defend. It's no consolation. But for some reason this game, where we attacked well and defended absolutely abysmally, is cited as proof that our 'negative game plan' was 'found out'. Our defensive system was found out, and our lack of depth was certainly found out- as I fear it may be again. But so much of what is being said is just... its just not thought through.

I apologise if I seem exasperated. It just seems when Ireland selection comes around people are willing to jettison looking at the facts as logically as they can in favour of getting laid into the coaches because their personal favourite player was left out, or the team is set-up to focus on the strengths of the players we have.

When we win championships, we're slated for not winning in style. But if we lose badly and play attacking rugby, we're also criticised. It seems that the only thing that will satisfy some fans is if we win the Grand Slam by picking inexperienced players who are executing a style of expansive rugby we don't see at any other level in Ireland. That seems to be the expectation. And it's a nonsensical expectation.

Joe Schmidt had Leinster playing superb attacking rugby when he was coach there, now Les Kiss has Ulster playing extremely positive attacking rugby now he's left the Ireland set-up. It begs the question; why not Ireland? And maybe, just maybe, its not because they are conservative or biased or just not as smart as us. Maybe it's because there is a significant gap in quality between club rugby and international and people are simply failing to factor that in? Maybe it does take time to adapt to the step-up in intensity? Maybe getting championship winning performances isn't as simple as picking the in-form players and expecting them to look as good at Twickenham or the Stade de France as they do when they play against Oyonnax or the Dragons?

I have no doubt whatsoever that the fact Ulster now look better coached and better in attack than the other provinces will filter through to the national team over the next few years especially when it comes to the midfield area with Jackson, McCloskey, Olding and Payne all brimming with quality. But I also have no doubt that its not as simple as going these are the form players, let's whack them in and it will be golden. In other words, I don't see any sense of realism when it comes to the national team. It's amazing that we are arguing over the back line while we have a massive injury crisis in the pack. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns!

[GunsGerms]

Agree mostly Notch. I also agree that despite what the media largely claimed in the world cup post mortem it wasn't our attack that let us down it was our defense.

I think secondly and more crucially it was our work at the breakdown that let us down too because Argentina profited from the quickest ruck ball that I have seen any team have in the Schmidt era and as a result they were able to score tries on the counter fairly easily.

Hardly surprising when most of our best breakdown operators O'Brien, POC and POM were all missing and our back row and second row were all players better know as ball carriers, Murphy, Henry, Heaslip and Henderson. For me that was the biggest problem in that game even if Best wasn't bad at the breakdown we needed three of him to slow down the Argies.

[Notch]

Agree Guns. A lot resting on the shoulders of O'Donnell!

[GunsGerms]

Agree Guns. A lot resting on the shoulders of O'Donnell!

I'm sure Best and Stander and a few others will get involved too. Im actually not that worried about the Wales back row. Tipuric and Warburton are great players but historically we struggle more against Wales when Lydiate plays.

I think Ireland have only won once when Lydiate has started and lost 3.

[Marshes]

As I've said two-thirds of the team is different between this game and the last game. As far as tactics go, we've consistently varied our tactics more than any other Ireland side I can ever remember.

The only change between that team and this team that isn't injury related is Dave Kearney, who is somehow still on the bench.

Yeah and he's clearly on the bench because of injuries to other players! Bowe, his brother, Fitzgerald all out and he still doesn't make the 15. He's clearly fallen down the pecking order quite a bit.

It's crazy to see the revisionism thats going on regarding the Argentina game.

1) Before the game we lost key leaders and organising voices in the team- O'Connell, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Sexton and Payne were all ruled out. Those are devastating losses for a World Cup quarter-final regardless of tactics or systems.
2) Despite criticisms of our attack, we lost because of our defence and our backlines failure to put pressure on them where to mattered. We defended really, really badly- both systematically badly, and we also had individual players making bad decisions and bad reads. We were far too passive in the midfield and too narrow- we essentially allowed their talented playmakers oodles of space to pick their passes and their talented wingers oodles of space to run into.
3)There are two reasons you could suggest this happened. Sexton and Paynes absence, depriving us of the two most important players in the back line, and Les Kiss' defensive system. We didn't go out with a good strategy to stop their attacking game and we didn't have leadership on the field to adapt to what was happening. Perhaps I'm wrong and will be proven wrong, but those seem to be the two most likely explanations for what happened to our defence in that game.
4)However Les Kiss is not part of the coaching team anymore, similarly Schmidt has recalled Sexton and Payne against the 'wisdom' of some of the experts on here. Not a bad move to rely on experience in the backs considering he is picking from an even more injury-stricken deck up from forwards. We will probably suffer from not integrating our new defensive coach until the summer tour and missing a lot of key forwards, but if we do struggle this will probably be attributed to not picking an uncapped centre and picking a guy who hasn't yet started a test match at fullback in a different position.
5) Finally we went out with the intention of attacking Argentina and keeping the ball in hand! Whether that was the original plan or the plan was up in the air after starting terribly, Madigan barely kicked the ball and we scored two superb tries- not that it matters a bit if you can't defend. It's no consolation. But for some reason this game, where we attacked well and defended absolutely abysmally, is cited as proof that our 'negative game plan' was 'found out'. Our defensive system was found out, and our lack of depth was certainly found out- as I fear it may be again. But so much of what is being said is just... its just not thought through.

I apologise if I seem exasperated. It just seems when Ireland selection comes around people are willing to jettison looking at the facts as logically as they can in favour of getting laid into the coaches because their personal favourite player was left out, or the team is set-up to focus on the strengths of the players we have.

When we win championships, we're slated for not winning in style. But if we lose badly and play attacking rugby, we're also criticised. It seems that the only thing that will satisfy some fans is if we win the Grand Slam by picking inexperienced players who are executing a style of expansive rugby we don't see at any other level in Ireland. That seems to be the expectation. And it's a nonsensical expectation.

Joe Schmidt had Leinster playing superb attacking rugby when he was coach there, now Les Kiss has Ulster playing extremely positive attacking rugby now he's left the Ireland set-up. It begs the question; why not Ireland? And maybe, just maybe, its not because they are conservative or biased or just not as smart as us. Maybe it's because there is a significant gap in quality between club rugby and international and people are simply failing to factor that in? Maybe it does take time to adapt to the step-up in intensity? Maybe getting championship winning performances isn't as simple as picking the in-form players and expecting them to look as good at Twickenham or the Stade de France as they do when they play against Oyonnax or the Dragons?

I have no doubt whatsoever that the fact Ulster now look better coached and better in attack than the other provinces will filter through to the national team over the next few years especially when it comes to the midfield area with Jackson, McCloskey, Olding and Payne all brimming with quality. But I also have no doubt that its not as simple as going these are the form players, let's whack them in and it will be golden. In other words, I don't see any sense of realism when it comes to the national team. It's amazing that we are arguing over the back line while we have a massive injury crisis in the pack. Talk about fiddling while Rome burns!

Notch I'm no fancy big city lawyer, I agree with all of what you said about the Argentina game and the difference between test and club rugby, but I can't help but be disappointed with this selection. And it is not because I have the knives out for Schmidt, who I think has done a fantastic job with Ireland and I have total faith that there will be a well coordinated plan for Sunday. You always get that with Joe. I don't believe we will win it given the loss of key players to injury or retirement, but I wouldn't be surprised if we do. It is the reluctance to put faith in new players when the opportunity, be it through form or an injury, presents itself. This goes for players who have been in camp before or are fresh faces at Carton House.

The loss of Kearney to injury is perfect for trying something new. Trying out Henshaw or Payne at 15 gives you the opportunity to bring in someone who has been lighting up the Pro 12 and Europe this year. I have no doubt McCloskey would be able to hold his own in this game, and we get the additional benefit of Payne or Henshaw running the ball from deep. Picking Zebo (who has been in very mixed form) there really feels like he is just a placeholder until Kearney is back available.

It begs the questions "what if?" with the injuries. Kearney would probably start even though not the best option, what if Cian Healy was fit? I'd say Joe would have him in even though he has been poor since coming back from injury. Schmidt and historically Ireland are very reluctant to give new players a chance when they are not only knocking on the door, but in the hallway wiping their shoes on the mat.

It all feels like shoehorning in the devil you know ahead of the devil you don't, even if they are out of position. Instead of McCloskey, we get a 13 playing 12. Starting fullback is injured? Play someone who has been mostly at 14 this season at 15, while playing the best fullback in your team at 13. I don't get the logic there.

Madigan over Jackson is not even worth getting into. I assume Madigan is in there because he covers 12, but it is covering for Sexton that should take priority!

Wales take no prisoners in this regard. Tom James and Rob Evans are both into the 15 based on their form. During the World Cup and build-up, an injury crisis forced a lot of young players to step up, and Wales benefit now from the additional depth. We on the other hand go safety first, you have to be selected in the training squad, then make the cut to the main squad, then into the 23, then a start against a weaker side, fill out your forms in triplicate, then you can play with the big boys.

But in Joe we trust.

[DirtyRucker7]

Without O'Connell and O'Brien Ireland will really struggle to seal off the ruck and come in from the side.

[Notch]

Thats fair enough Marshes. It's a completely fair opinion. I'm sorry if that came across as a rant btw, I just feel that a lot of people aren't giving the coaches enough credit. They don't make these decisions on a whim.

[RubyGuby]

Lydiate is just coming back from injury and hence the bench. Its misleading to think Tipuric has been chosen ahead of him for anything else other than he's next in line. He is of course an outstanding 7 in broken play but we need the platform first. It should be a cracker and I think Wales will look to exploit any quick ball with pace and power as did Argentina. We have the backs to do that but we lack the courage and conviction most of the time unlike the Argies. thumbsup

[Marshes]

Also I'd have Dillane in the team there somewhere, but understand the decision to go with McCarthy/Ryan. Not many standing options there!

[Marshes]

Thats fair enough Marshes. It's a completely fair opinion. I'm sorry if that came across as a rant btw, I just feel that a lot of people aren't giving the coaches enough credit. They don't make these decisions on a whim.

True that, I think the last think you could accuse Joe of is making a rushed decision! And to be fair I think we will see the Ulster lads pair up in green at some point this tournament, looking forward to it!

[eirebilly]

Not going to hide my disappointment here. This was a golden chance that I feel has gone begging. Zebo is not in great form but moves into 15 whilst Payne has been simply outstanding there. McCloskey and Henshaw would have done very well I feel and Payne would have brought them well into the game with his excellent attacking lines from 15. Still fuming that the form 10 in Ireland cant even make the squad.

Very happy for Stander and Marmion though.

[RubyGuby]

Hopefully it will be Payne at 15 and McCloskey & Henshaw in the centre V England - in the meantime you can experiment against us minnows on Sunday

[eirebilly]

I would hope so Guru but I think that this is pretty much the team we will see for Ireland this 6N, well until Rob Kearney and SOB return.

[JmD]

McCloskey sighting: at Ravenhill warming up with the Ulster squad.

[LeinsterFan4life]

McCloskey sighting: at Ravenhill warming up with the Ulster squad.

I can't understand how he's not starting on Sunday, he's the form back in Ireland right now. I hope we aren't returning to the days where it's harder to get off the Ireland team then on it.

[kunu]

There's been a lot of talk about Jackson's form all over the web. I think it's being a bit overstated. The last very important game he played was against Saracens, a team with international standard defence (England's defence coach). He lined up alongside Mccloskey, Marshall, Trimble, Payne in a great backline. He didn't play badly, but he didn't demand international selection in the way that a huge number of supporters are suggesting. Saracens were well and truly comfortably able to defend the Ulster attack. He didn't have a mare, but had no answers really. That game probably weighed against him in the end. I don't think we should take the Oyonnax game into account - they're second from the bottom in the top 14, French, and were out of the running at the time, all the hallmarks of a training ground game.

I realise Leinster haven't fared any better, but much worse over the last few months. But what I mean to say is, Jackson's form hasn't been good enough to surmount what we know Sexton can bring to the team. For me, Sexton had to be picked to start. As long as he's not injured he's got the most to offer. I do think Jackson should be subbing, but I don't think Madigan's selection represents a massive flaw in Schmidt's selection either.

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