6N Rugby - Italy v England

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England team to face Italy - Sunday

1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 28 caps)
2 Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 67 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 57 caps)
4 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 43 caps)
5 George Kruis (Saracens, 11 caps)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 44 caps)
7 James Haskell (Wasps, 63 caps)
8 Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens, 22 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 53 caps)
10 George Ford (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 11 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 36 caps)
13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 16 caps)
15 Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 44 caps)

Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens, 4 caps)
17 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 38 caps)
18 Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
19 Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 29 caps)
20 Maro Itoje (Saracens, uncapped)
21 Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 1 cap)
22 Danny Care (Harlequins, 54 caps)
23 Alex Goode (Saracens, 19 caps)

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I harken to the days of Rodber-Richards-Clarke in the backrow. Never set the world alight but put the fear of God into the opposition.

Who would be the equivalent now.

Ewers, Billy V, Haskell Same sort of size but nowhere near as menacing.

6. Nathan Hughes
7. Dave Ewers
8. Billy Vuinipola

That's pretty intimidating...

Sound a bit foreign, what!!!!!

Poorfour wrote:Clifford played centre (presumably 12) for a fair bit of his formative years, though had clearly settled in the back row by the time he hit U20s.

Surely Robshaw to 10, he plays most of the game at first receiver anyway

We will see if Mako is a scrummager. He will be tested. Youngs is so slow too. Things could go horribly wrong for England.

RubyGuby wrote:Why are Italy going to get "tired" - they were in the ascendency in the last 10 in Paris - Is this an assumption or just an expectation that they will be chasing and tackling for the first 50 mins

Because, whilst I don't think England are as fit as say NZ, I do believe they are fitter than Italy. And if we can get the pack going forward making Italy tackle lots then they will tire first.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Why are Italy going to get "tired" - they were in the ascendency in the last 10 in Paris - Is this an assumption or just an expectation that they will be chasing and tackling for the first 50 mins

Because, whilst I don't think England are as fit as say NZ, I do believe they are fitter than Italy. And if we can get the pack going forward making Italy tackle lots then they will tire first.

Yes, I do think England will make Italy work harder than France. I'd expect England to be in a slog for an hour and then win by twenty or so in the end.

Few of England's changes stung my dream team too. Care and Launchbury.

At least week I should have a goalkicker, now I've swapped Farrell for Biggar. I'll settle for a fair few joining jacks to the camera this week

englandglory4ever wrote:We will see if Mako is a scrummager. He will be tested. Youngs is so slow too. Things could go horribly wrong for England.

As long as Youngs doesn't make any bad passes to the opposition like he did last week.

Well we aren't really learning anything about how the backrow might evolve, or what a long-term centre combination might look like, so it is a pretty disappointing selection. We'll probably win, but this makes it very likely the same backrow and centre combination will play for the rest of the tournament and frankly both are underwhelming.

If JJ and Nowell, say, go down injured in the first 30 minutes then we'll have a bit of a problem.......

Eddie was never going to meddle with the team during the tournament. That's for the summer tour. This team is there to do a job, win the 6ns. It won't be pretty and it probably won't be much like the team that eventually runs out in the RWC, but it's a solid side that know each other.

I still think it's too early for Clifford too. He should be captaining Quins over this period and putting in 80min performances ready for the summer tour at the earliest.

At the moment to my mind he doesn't suit how Jones is using the backrow, Clifford is not a big physical grafter to replace Haskell. He's not really a quite tackling and cleaning up 6 like Robshaw, and he's not a cannon ball 8 like Vinipola. If he had to come in early, then the balance of the backrow would seriously change, especially if he came on at 8 we'd lose our only carrier and Clifford would have a huge amount to do.

Hope I'm proved wrong anyhows.

yappysnap wrote:Eddie was never going to meddle with the team during the tournament. That's for the summer tour. This team is there to do a job, win the 6ns. It won't be pretty and it probably won't be much like the team that eventually runs out in the RWC, but it's a solid side that know each other.

Agree. And logical, to boot.

Not sure England will ultimately win, but certainly appear to have the ability to grind it out. On the other hand, we had the ability to grind it out in past years, but found new and novel ways to just not quite get the job done.

Weather looks horrible

I think Eddie seems to be making changes slowly. It's not a hugely experienced England 23 with 10 players under 20 caps - 2 new caps and a 1 cap in that not very experienced 23 seems like evolution to me.

I'm impressed with EJ so far. He seems to feel that winning is the most important thing and he puts that first so no huge changes are to be expected by the look of it.

I don't think Italy will cope with it in the end.

Will be interesting to see if Italy back up last weeks performance against England. Still think that England will run away with this.

The mighty world beaters England will win this but hoping Italy will put in a good performance

I honestly do not feel that Ford and Farrell work well together at 10 and 12.

eirebilly wrote:I honestly do not feel that Ford and Farrell work well together at 10 and 12.

They will have a good one today and ITV will be making them out to be the best thing ever

For no reason at all I'm predicting an Italy win.

Good start by both teams

Sluggish back-row, trying to force the ball wide when it isn't on, set-pieces clunky, same old England.

Italy have made a good start.

Ford having a stinker so far.

Italy have started well...and forcing England to make mistakes.

Ford has been awful, again. JJ missing too many tackles. Scrum is going well.

Good game so far, this 6N is the closest so far, Italy looking good.

glamorganalun wrote:Good game so far, this 6N is the closest so far, Italy looking good.

It is the closest for all the wrong reasons though, everyone has looked really sh1t. The winner will be the best of a bad bunch.

This is so frustrating to watch.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Good game so far, this 6N is the closest so far, Italy looking good.

It is the closest for all the wrong reasons though, everyone has looked really sh1t. The winner will be the best of a bad bunch.

Agreed. This has been the worst Six Nations I can remember, both in terms of quality and styles of play.

Ford's stinker of a game just came up smelling of roses!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Good game so far, this 6N is the closest so far, Italy looking good.

It is the closest for all the wrong reasons though, everyone has looked really sh1t. The winner will be the best of a bad bunch.

We hear something along those lines every time Wales go on to win it .

mikey_dragon wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Good game so far, this 6N is the closest so far, Italy looking good.

It is the closest for all the wrong reasons though, everyone has looked really sh1t. The winner will be the best of a bad bunch.

We hear something along those lines every time Wales go on to win it .

No matter who wins it, it would be hard to argue that this isn't the case. Wales were for the most part very poor yesterday.

Poor poor Wales, nobody gives them any credit.

Agree on the quality, execution has been awful. Ford's try doesn't take away from his performance, just dreadful.

Well there is some woeful rugby on display in Rome....

Ford is appalling

Based on current form, Farrell definitely needs to start for England at 10.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Good game so far, this 6N is the closest so far, Italy looking good.

It is the closest for all the wrong reasons though, everyone has looked really sh1t. The winner will be the best of a bad bunch.

Totally agree

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Good game so far, this 6N is the closest so far, Italy looking good.

It is the closest for all the wrong reasons though, everyone has looked really sh1t. The winner will be the best of a bad bunch.

We hear something along those lines every time Wales go on to win it .

No matter who wins it, it would be hard to argue that this isn't the case. Wales were for the most part very poor yesterday.

I agree. I don't think we're as bad as made out, but Scotland certainly did make us look poor at times, and this was because their tactics were paying off. Our defence needs to change to a rush defence, some positional changes to be made and I think we'll be better.

So far in this game I don't think England have looked good, but being in the lead without playing particularly well is a good position to be in.

nobbled wrote:Ford's stinker of a game just came up smelling of roses!

Because he walked in an easy try? He's been dreadful so far today. Worst I've ever seen him play for us.

10/10 lineout work.

England making some very basic errors.

Owen Farrell is a dirty little toad of a player

Do England have a penalty quota they try and meet as soon as possible in a match?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Based on current form, Farrell definitely needs to start for England at 10.

Form dictates Cipriani

tigertattie wrote:Owen Farrell is a dirty little toad of a player

Why?

kingelderfield wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Based on current form, Farrell definitely needs to start for England at 10.

Form dictates Cipriani

Farrell is the form 10 in England.

Oh dear lord this is soul destroying...

This is a real post world cup 6 nations.

As for england it will be interesting to see how patient Jones will be with this bunch. Halves, centres, flankers etc.

Ford!!!!

England do play some terrible matches in Rome.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Based on current form, Farrell definitely needs to start for England at 10.

Form dictates Cipriani

Farrell is the form 10 in England.

We obviously disagree. Though for the record Farrell is ok at what he does, it's just what he does is poor.

Shoud England be taking the penalties rather than play the advantage?

England and Italy have really both carried on their week 1 form, as sloppy a game as it is at least it's entertaining, and both teams are trying to play