2016 6 Nations Champions are...

First topic message reminder :

No bickering here on this thread, there are plenty of others to for you girls to pull each others hair...

Here, just simply answer the poll... Now half way through (well nearly), who's going to lift that 6 Nations trophy for 2016.

Put all teams in the mix, for fairness (in alphabetic order not current standing)...

Not asking in the poll if you predict a Grand Slam win, as 2 sides have a chance of it, so if you want to predict that, by all means do so with a response...

Lets play the daly thing down a bit, I don't think we should be expecting a world class performance, unfair on him.

I guess we'll see how much responsibility/pressure Daly has to deal with.

Will he be thrown on as a 12? Will be asked to kick from 50+ straight away?

Just saying that if someone is hyped up they need to back it up. Regardless of who they are.

I've hyped up a certain player. He's got to back up the hype with a good performance too.

I think both players can deal with the pressure and of course hope they do.

I really hope no one is expecting a world class performance from either to be honest, don't think it's fair. I wouldn't expect a world class performance from anyone even if they are world class, which neither are! If Daly came on with 3 min to go, England 2 behind and we get a pen at 50m plus 80 min plus, you wouldn't say have a pop?

Might as well in that situation but that's a very specific one.

Bit more difficult if England are behind by 5 with 6 minutes to go and get a penalty from 50m out and Daly's just come on. Do you hand him the kick or go for the corner?

Afterall as England fans we know about tough decisions. Robshaw went for two contrasting decisions and got it criticised for both.

I admit as fans we generally shout louder when something is wrong rather than when something is right.

Japan made a similar gamble to Robshaw in the RWC but the difference is their gamble paid off. Fine margin between winning and losing.

beshocked wrote:Might as well in that situation but that's a very specific one.

Bit more difficult if England are behind by 5 with 6 minutes to go and get a penalty from 50m out and Daly's just come on. Do you hand him the kick or go for the corner?

Afterall as England fans we know about tough decisions. Robshaw went for two contrasting decisions and got it criticised for both.

I admit as fans we generally shout louder when something is wrong rather than when something is right.

Japan made a similar gamble to Robshaw in the RWC but the difference is their gamble paid off. Fine margin between winning and losing.

Absolutely. Hindsight - the finest rugby pundit on this Earth.

But isn't it nice to have that option/headache for the captain? I think it is.

no 7 & 1/2 no not really because it means you have to ask an additional question.


In both games I said kick for the corner, yes only one paid off but I believe a team should play to win, not to draw. It was England's failure to win the resulting lineout which was more an issue than Robshaw's decision itself.

England might well have drawn with Wales if Farrell had taken the kick and got it but it wouldn't have fixed the cracks and flaws in the side. As painful as the RWC loss was, England have got rid of the coaching staff who were okay but not good enough. I got my dream line up of coaches. The perfectionist in me means I doubt I will be completely satisfied but even though I've been critical of some EJ's decisions so far he's got 2/2 so far and progress has been solid.

beshocked wrote:Might as well in that situation but that's a very specific one...

It's also a scenario which has a habit of popping up. Kurtley Beale almost derailed the last Lions tour that way.

Under new laws, teams will get an option to kick to touch even if time is officially up. However, the season in the north was already under way, so we are playing the old way. Not sure what happens when we tour Australia.

Rugby Fan wrote:Under new laws, teams will get an option to kick to touch even if time is officially up.

When was that decided?!

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 no not really because it means you have to ask an additional question.


In both games I said kick for the corner, yes only one paid off but I believe a team should play to win, not to draw. It was England's failure to win the resulting lineout which was more an issue than Robshaw's decision itself.

England might well have drawn with Wales if Farrell had taken the kick and got it but it wouldn't have fixed the cracks and flaws in the side. As painful as the RWC loss was, England have got rid of the coaching staff who were okay but not good enough. I got my dream line up of coaches. The perfectionist in me means I doubt I will be completely satisfied but even though I've been critical of some EJ's decisions so far he's got 2/2 so far and progress has been solid.

I'd add that in those circumstances Robshaw always called the lineouts to himself. He did make a decent catch but Charteris made a complete mess of the possession afterwards

Just out of interest, with Scotland and Italy up first what exactly were you guys expecting going into round 3?

I find it hard to judge Jones thus far positively after the first 2 games because they were 2 games all the other 4 teams would have expected to win.

Round 3 and England play an underpowered Ireland at home, which I have them as favourites, but in reality I would have expected Lancaster to go 3 from 3 too at this point.

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 no not really because it means you have to ask an additional question.


In both games I said kick for the corner, yes only one paid off but I believe a team should play to win, not to draw. It was England's failure to win the resulting lineout which was more an issue than Robshaw's decision itself.

England might well have drawn with Wales if Farrell had taken the kick and got it but it wouldn't have fixed the cracks and flaws in the side. As painful as the RWC loss was, England have got rid of the coaching staff who were okay but not good enough. I got my dream line up of coaches. The perfectionist in me means I doubt I will be completely satisfied but even though I've been critical of some EJ's decisions so far he's got 2/2 so far and progress has been solid.

Options aren't good? Really? I find that strange. You're a kick for a lineout no matter what guy eh? Don't take 3 on offer. I know that you're not, no body is!

Fanster wrote:Just out of interest, with Scotland and Italy up first what exactly were you guys expecting going into round 3?

I find it hard to judge Jones thus far positively after the first 2 games because they were 2 games all the other 4 teams would have expected to win.

Round 3 and England play an underpowered Ireland at home, which I have them as favourites, but in reality I would have expected Lancaster to go 3 from 3 too at this point.

Said before the tournament I would ahve expected for lancasters team to put up a very strong challenge this time around and I thought the same even if Jones and his team were new. More to do with the core group of players we have now with some of the young uns coming through. We'll have to play well to beat this 'underpowered' Ireland.

Nice little bit on the BBC about comparisons of Itoje to PO'C and Johnson, making his debut earlier than both. Would be nice if he went onto have the impact those 2 had! Quality player and excited to see how he starts this weekend, quite nice he has Kruis next to him and will be interested to see whether both locks make it through the game as it's not something that normally happens but they're both exceptionally fit.

beshocked wrote:Ireland in my opinion are vulnerable which I've gone for a big England win. Ireland still have a lot of good players but they need to stop the downward spiral.

Might well pull off an upset by beating England but going by the form book England should win.

Hmm I'm beginning to realise why you're 'never wrong' Beshocked.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice little bit on the BBC about comparisons of Itoje to PO'C and Johnson, making his debut earlier than both. Would be nice if he went onto have the impact those 2 had! Quality player and excited to see how he starts this weekend, quite nice he has Kruis next to him and will be interested to see whether both locks make it through the game as it's not something that normally happens but they're both exceptionally fit.

Quite common these days. Pretty sure Lawes was also younger than those two on debut, as was Launchbury I think. Same with Richie and Jonny Gray for Scotland.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice little bit on the BBC about comparisons of Itoje to PO'C and Johnson, making his debut earlier than both. Would be nice if he went onto have the impact those 2 had! Quality player and excited to see how he starts this weekend, quite nice he has Kruis next to him and will be interested to see whether both locks make it through the game as it's not something that normally happens but they're both exceptionally fit.

Really looking forward to seeing what Kruis and Itoje look like together on the international stage.

Last week's lineout failing aside, I think Kruis has been our player of the tournament so far. Absolutely outstanding in defence and carrying.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice little bit on the BBC about comparisons of Itoje to PO'C and Johnson, making his debut earlier than both. Would be nice if he went onto have the impact those 2 had! Quality player and excited to see how he starts this weekend, quite nice he has Kruis next to him and will be interested to see whether both locks make it through the game as it's not something that normally happens but they're both exceptionally fit.

Quite common these days. Pretty sure Lawes was also younger than those two on debut, as was Launchbury I think. Same with Richie and Jonny Gray for Scotland.

Lawes was about 8 months younger than Itoje when he made his debut, Launchbury maybe a month or so older than the Sarrie (too lazy to do the maths)

funnyExiledScot wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice little bit on the BBC about comparisons of Itoje to PO'C and Johnson, making his debut earlier than both. Would be nice if he went onto have the impact those 2 had! Quality player and excited to see how he starts this weekend, quite nice he has Kruis next to him and will be interested to see whether both locks make it through the game as it's not something that normally happens but they're both exceptionally fit.

Quite common these days. Pretty sure Lawes was also younger than those two on debut, as was Launchbury I think. Same with Richie and Jonny Gray for Scotland.

And Alun W Jones (21 edit: 20) for Wales (and that was 10 years ago now)

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Fanster wrote:Just out of interest, with Scotland and Italy up first what exactly were you guys expecting going into round 3?

I find it hard to judge Jones thus far positively after the first 2 games because they were 2 games all the other 4 teams would have expected to win.

Round 3 and England play an underpowered Ireland at home, which I have them as favourites, but in reality I would have expected Lancaster to go 3 from 3 too at this point.

Said before the tournament I would ahve expected for lancasters team to put up a very strong challenge this time around and I thought the same even if Jones and his team were new. More to do with the core group of players we have now with some of the young uns coming through. We'll have to play well to beat this 'underpowered' Ireland.

I'd probably agree with this, this is why I'm struggling to judge Jones at all.

HammerofThunor wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice little bit on the BBC about comparisons of Itoje to PO'C and Johnson, making his debut earlier than both. Would be nice if he went onto have the impact those 2 had! Quality player and excited to see how he starts this weekend, quite nice he has Kruis next to him and will be interested to see whether both locks make it through the game as it's not something that normally happens but they're both exceptionally fit.

Quite common these days. Pretty sure Lawes was also younger than those two on debut, as was Launchbury I think. Same with Richie and Jonny Gray for Scotland.

And Alun W Jones (21 edit: 20) for Wales (and that was 10 years ago now)

I wish you guys would stop comparing your upcoming locks to world class operators like Alun-Wyn Jones. #delusional

Welcome Maro Itoje

Its Courtney Lawes déjà vu all over again

Gwlad wrote:Welcome Maro Itoje

Its Courtney Lawes déjà vu all over again

Nonsense Lawes is the Enforcer he gives Springbok Locks nightmares ,we have had plenty of players come through strong for us after the press attention Topsy Ojo, Vainokolo, Matt Tait, Sam Burgess, Chris Robshaw,Joe Marler,Dan Cole,Cipriani, Matt Banahan to name a few , actually Banahan has more tattoos than Lawes which makes him well hard

mikey_dragon wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice little bit on the BBC about comparisons of Itoje to PO'C and Johnson, making his debut earlier than both. Would be nice if he went onto have the impact those 2 had! Quality player and excited to see how he starts this weekend, quite nice he has Kruis next to him and will be interested to see whether both locks make it through the game as it's not something that normally happens but they're both exceptionally fit.

Quite common these days. Pretty sure Lawes was also younger than those two on debut, as was Launchbury I think. Same with Richie and Jonny Gray for Scotland.

And Alun W Jones (21 edit: 20) for Wales (and that was 10 years ago now)

I wish you guys would stop comparing your upcoming locks to world class operators like Alun-Wyn Jones. #delusional

I was comparing AW Jones to O'Connell and Johnson actually (he was capped younger than both). Also you seem to have pressed the '#' key instead of shift so you had 'd' instead of 'D'.

HammerofThunor wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

HammerofThunor wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice little bit on the BBC about comparisons of Itoje to PO'C and Johnson, making his debut earlier than both. Would be nice if he went onto have the impact those 2 had! Quality player and excited to see how he starts this weekend, quite nice he has Kruis next to him and will be interested to see whether both locks make it through the game as it's not something that normally happens but they're both exceptionally fit.

Quite common these days. Pretty sure Lawes was also younger than those two on debut, as was Launchbury I think. Same with Richie and Jonny Gray for Scotland.

And Alun W Jones (21 edit: 20) for Wales (and that was 10 years ago now)

I wish you guys would stop comparing your upcoming locks to world class operators like Alun-Wyn Jones. #delusional

I was comparing AW Jones to O'Connell and Johnson actually (he was capped younger than both).  Also you seem to have pressed the '#' key instead of shift so you had 'd' instead of 'D'.

And what a yawning chasm of grand canyon proportions the gap is between those two titans and Alun Wyn Jones!

Why is it everyone responds to a known agitator with attacking his country instead of him?

Do you really beleive AWJ isn't one of the best around? Is he merely an U12 standard compared to POC and Johnstone, based on the grand canyon size chasm?

Lets be a little realistic, noone is comparing Itoje to AWJ, thats ridiculous.

Also AWJ has just turned 30, is entering his prime and based on his trajectory he is well in line to go beyond a lot of POC's acheivements, he needs 1 more lions cap, and 12 Wales caps to statistically beat him, and he has 5/6 years to do so.

AWJ will never be POC, despite their careers being pretty similar thus far, including AWJ's hairloss issues.

You can't blame English fans of being excited by Itoje, I sure as hell am and I'm a Welsh fan, as I was by Lawes, they are great to watch, and deserved of playing in this tournament.

The issue for English fans is with such a huge player base, and a great foreign platform of club players there will always be someone to be excited by, thats not to say Welsh and Irish fans don't do the same ahem Henson, ahem Zebo...

Who's attacked his country? Someone said they thought that O'Connell and Johnson were significantly better than AW Jones. That's an opinion. I know there are several people on here you don't rate AW Jones that highly. There are some that didn't rate POC as highly as others and some that thought Johnson was just a thug.

But none of that is attacking a country.

HammerofThunor wrote:Who's attacked his country? Someone said they thought that O'Connell and Johnson were significantly better than AW Jones. That's an opinion.  I know there are several people on here you don't rate AW Jones that highly.  There are some that didn't rate POC as highly as others and some that thought Johnson was just a thug.

But none of that is attacking a country.

Really? Your telling me the wording of 'grand canyon style chasm' isn't insulting to a world class Welsh player?

I'm not saying AWJ matches either of those players, Johnstone was a world cup winning leader, POC an inspirational talisman, but AWJ is just entering his prime and is renowned as Wales best ever lock at this stage already, lets keep a bit of common sense.

What Mikey says regularly is met with 'Your players are rubbish' comments throughout the threads, his comments are also largely tripe IMO, but why cause an arguent with other Welsh posters who read ludicrous comments about Welsh players? It makes no sense, mock mikey, laugh at him or block him, I don't waste my time responding to him.

PS my point has been made, Mikey mocks English player, English fan Mocks Welsh player, Welsh poster replies, English poster responds and the circle begins...

People talk in hyperbole. You'd be pretty busy fighting 'insults' if you reacted everyone said "my grandma plays better than that" or various similar statements. Nothing wrong with someone thinking that POC and MJ are significantly better than AWJ, even if you don't agree.

HammerofThunor wrote:People talk in hyperbole. You'd be pretty busy fighting 'insults' if you reacted everyone said "my grandma plays better than that" or various similar statements. Nothing wrong with someone thinking that POC and MJ are significantly better than AWJ, even if you don't agree.

If Hyperbole is the norm then why do people get so offended by Mikeys comments around English players?

The relentless off topic nature off them generally. No one (edit: seemed to get) got offended for his one here (although he tried to be insulting to a poster (me) by inferring I was delusion for mentioning AW Jones).  I wasn't offended by it because I know he's a dick.  I just politely clarified my comment.

HammerofThunor wrote:The relentless off topic nature off them generally. No one (edit: seemed to get) got offended for his one here (although he tried to be insulting to a poster (me) by inferring I was delusion for mentioning AW Jones).  I wasn't offended by it because I know he's a dick.  I just politely clarified my comment.

I wasn't offended by AWJ being mentioned either

Just chose to respond by bringing up actual world class locks .. childish and hyperbolic it may have been, but I'm sure the intended outcome will be achieved

The intended outcome being to try to insult Welsh posters? Or a guy regarded as the best Welsh lock of recent history / all time?

Congrats.

I think you guys secretly love Mikey, he gives you the opportunity to slate people and players with what you perceive as the moral high ground.

Fanster wrote:The intended outcome being to try to insult Welsh posters?

Where?

Fanster wrote:Or a guy regarded as the best Welsh lock of recent history / all time?

I doubt he cares.

Not that much of an insult saying he's behind 2 all time greats, not as if he said geoff Parling is better!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not that much of an insult saying he's behind 2 all time greats, not as if he said geoff Parling is better!

Now you mention it

Fanster does have a point. I mean, you just know that Mikey is going to turn up a couple of days prior to the game, in one hand his signed photo of AWJ and in the other hand his...actually let's not go there. Point being you all know what he's going to say, and the reason he says it is because he knows it gets a rise and he gets some much needed attention. If he could think of something witty, maybe even original, then he might get a better response (banter v trolling) but as he isn't capable of managing that, best to ignore him.
BTW I think AWJ is a great player. Sorry Mikey

Anyone wanting to change their earlier view on this poll?

I said England from the out set. But i must say i am very surprised England are played 3 won 3 at this stage.

Wales are still in with a chance. but the way Wales are playing and England are playing at, moment in time, ( with out) any biased England too win.

So no one does then.

With or without prejudice.....

Martyn Williams has the answer apparently..

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Martyn Williams has the answer apparently..

I read that. Still tipping England to squeak.

He'll be popular...

Said at the beginning I reckoned England would get a Slam this year, and still do..

But I will be more than happy to be proved wrong this weekend...

i reckon it's between england or wales myself.