6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March

  
ENGLAND v WALES
12 March 2016
KO: 16:00 GMT
Twickenham, London

Live on ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

119 Played 119
53 Won 54
12 Drawn 12
54 Lost 53
1,428 Points 1,371

B. Recent Form

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London
25 – 28 to Wales
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

6 February 2015: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England
2015 Six Nations

9 March 2014: Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England
2014 Six Nations

16 March 2013: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales
2013 Six Nations

25 February 2012: Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales
2012 Six Nations

13 August 2011: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test

6 August 2011: Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test

C. Teams

ENGLAND

[tbc]

WALES

[tbc]

Archibald Leach (the US citizen) v Richard Burton CBE.

I'd call that 3-0 at kick off

So Gwald.

What is you prediction then Wales by a land slide. I presume.

This game will be won that adapts to the ref the quickest or who butters up his ego the most.

Wales by a landslide then.

28-25 will do but 30-3 has a nice ring to it.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:This game will be won that adapts to the ref the quickest or who butters up his ego the most.

Wales by a landslide then.

Word salad

Anyone have any (light) salad dressing?

Anyway enough horseplay.

Wales present the best defense against England's strong and direct attack.

Home advantage has been proven by both sides to represent nothing.

Wales are near to full strength with, IMO a stronger bench. England have found some consistency but the murmurings are they will upset their 10-12 axis yet again before a crucial game to negate Doc Roberts.

Wales also have a stronger front row than they have had, but there are question marks over AWJ, Lydiate and Warburton for me. They will have to have to step up, but Haskell is no match v Warburton. England may have the better line out but hopefully Charteris will be fit.

I also think Wales have a stronger kick chase game with exponents like Williams and Biggar but Brown is a superb, if somewhat easily provoked 15 on the counter.

England are no longer tactically immature - the removal of Lancaster after he gifted the RWC game by taking off Burgess isn't likely to happen again, though they haven't had a proper test; wins against Scots, Italians and a sadly depleted Ireland have been relatively easy. Their pack is extremely strong and has more ball carriers including Billy (who is clearly the best 8 in the world)

Will Eddie do a Stewie though and change it all up to let Manu to win the day?

England are playing direct rugby and getting it through the hands quick to their back 3. IMO the back 3 is working very effectively and edges the Welsh back, though if L Williams returns to his best h outclasses the rest. England's attack works very well if the pack have consistently got across the gainline, they are playing heads up rugby, but the challenge is this….can they against the best NH defense? The key to the whole game is can they break Wales defensive patterns.

If Wales resist the early onslaught and a tight game that favors England, as it opens up if we've kicked our goals and with our impact subs I expect another very close win.

Gethin to charge down on the 22 and romp over for a try on the 80th minute.

Sadly if Gethin runs more than 10m his calf muscles will breakdown

Gwlad wrote:Anyway enough horseplay.

Wales present the best defense against England's strong and direct attack.

Home advantage has been proven by both sides to represent nothing.

Wales are near to full strength with, IMO a stronger bench. England have found some consistency but the murmurings are they will upset their 10-12 axis yet again before a crucial game to negate Doc Roberts.

Wales also have a stronger front row than they have had, but there are question marks over AWJ, Lydiate and Warburton for me. They will have to have to step up, but Haskell is no match v Warburton. England may have the better line out but hopefully Charteris will be fit.

I also think Wales have a stronger kick chase game with exponents like Williams and Biggar but Brown is a superb, if somewhat easily provoked 15 on the counter.

England are no longer tactically immature - the removal of Lancaster after he gifted the RWC game by taking off Burgess isn't likely to happen again, though they haven't had a proper test; wins against Scots, Italians and a sadly depleted Ireland have been relatively easy. Their pack is extremely strong and has more ball carriers including Billy (who is clearly the best 8 in the world)

Will Eddie do a Stewie though and change it all up to let Manu to win the day?

England are playing direct rugby and getting it through the hands quick to their back 3. IMO the back 3 is working very effectively and edges the Welsh back, though if L Williams returns to his best h outclasses the rest. England's attack works very well if the pack have consistently got across the gainline, they are playing heads up rugby, but the challenge is this….can they against the best NH defense? The key to the whole game is can they break Wales defensive patterns.

If Wales resist the early onslaught and a tight game that favors England, as it opens up if we've kicked our goals and with our impact subs I expect another very close win.

Gethin to charge down on the 22 and romp over for a try on the 80th minute.

Gwalad.

Nice post. i too think that it will bve a tight fought game. England cannot afford to give away penalties in or near their 22 because Biggar will sure kick his goals.

Your comment about Billy v being the best 8 in the world. i am sure it was meant has tongue in cheek. But it will be nice to see Billy and Toby go head to head.


I think in the end ( Discipline) from both sides will play a big part in the game. who evr gives away the most penalties will come off second best IMO, both team have the ( ido not like too use this world too lightly)
World class kickers...  the backs on both teams can cause problems for most teams, who has the best backs? it will all depend on how much ball come's their way.

I my self think England will win. Just like you your self think Wales will win.

It is just a matter of waiting and seeing.

We will batter the Welsh like we always do.
Chatting with Eddie and he said Manu will be on the bench ,he will come on for the last 20 and run riot against a physically inferior Welsh side.
Also Borthwick alluded to the fact that not many of these players where involved in the 30-3 Steve Walsh show and the 2015RWC fluke so they don't bare any scars and don't fear the Welsh! For example Itoje has never lost a game to a Welsh side or Wales.

Eng 47 - 12 Wal

DirtyRucker?

I do hope you are wrong about Manu being on the bench for this game. He should not be even close to getting in the Englamnd team/squad at this moment in time.

Gwlad wrote:28-25 will do but 30-3 has a nice ring to it.

So you're predicting an England win for once.

'England are playing direct rugby and getting it through their hands quickly to the back 3'

I would have thought it would have been one or the other, however, direct is fine if you break the gain line. England are doing it with Billy V & Wales with Roberts.
The difference is that with a 12 looking for contact instead of space or passing, is that the attack is very often stifled in the backs and whilst Englnds wingers are seeing some ball Wales wingers are rarely getting a touch.
I'm not suggesting this is going to decide the game but it's a lot more interesting to watch & hopefully more successful.

Gwlad wrote:Anyway enough horseplay.

Wales present the best defense against England's strong and direct attack.

Home advantage has been proven by both sides to represent nothing.

Wales are near to full strength with, IMO a stronger bench. England have found some consistency but the murmurings are they will upset their 10-12 axis yet again before a crucial game to negate Doc Roberts.

Wales also have a stronger front row than they have had, but there are question marks over AWJ, Lydiate and Warburton for me. They will have to have to step up, but Haskell is no match v Warburton. England may have the better line out but hopefully Charteris will be fit.

I also think Wales have a stronger kick chase game with exponents like Williams and Biggar but Brown is a superb, if somewhat easily provoked 15 on the counter.

England are no longer tactically immature - the removal of Lancaster after he gifted the RWC game by taking off Burgess isn't likely to happen again, though they haven't had a proper test; wins against Scots, Italians and a sadly depleted Ireland have been relatively easy. Their pack is extremely strong and has more ball carriers including Billy (who is clearly the best 8 in the world)

Will Eddie do a Stewie though and change it all up to let Manu to win the day?

England are playing direct rugby and getting it through the hands quick to their back 3. IMO the back 3 is working very effectively and edges the Welsh back, though if L Williams returns to his best h outclasses the rest. England's attack works very well if the pack have consistently got across the gainline, they are playing heads up rugby, but the challenge is this….can they against the best NH defense? The key to the whole game is can they break Wales defensive patterns.

If Wales resist the early onslaught and a tight game that favors England, as it opens up if we've kicked our goals and with our impact subs I expect another very close win.

Gethin to charge down on the 22 and romp over for a try on the 80th minute.

Good post and i tend to agree with most of it, though i feel gethin will romp in from the 40m line though

Interesting to hear why you think Wales have the best defence when England have only conceded one try to wales' 3 or 4 (i think, can't be bothered to check but it's around this area). I know that Wales have historically had the better defence but how far back do we go? This year englands defence has been very well organised, great line speed and excellent scramble - traits you normally associate with wales. farrell was an ok defence coach but Gustard is probably the best in the NH imo, some of sarries defensive performances in the past have been brilliant and it looks like he could get us to that level too.

Cannot call next weekends game, but either see england winning reasonably comfortably a la 2014 or wales sneaking it, definitely going to be the game of the tournament though and i can't wait - as long as england win!!!

I think it's a fantastic and mouthwatering clash.

I would love to say "Let the best team win" but I am English so will naturally be cheering on my own team. I think the RWC game was down to poor selection choices - the game was almost won before Stewie decided to throw on Ford for Burgess and the rest was history. Jones is unlikely to make the same sort of decision.

This will be an arm wrestle for the first 50 minutes, with both sides banging over penalties with the odd breakaway and potentially 2 or 3 tries. England have been more impressive in the last 20 in all their games for me and provided their discipline is on the money, I see an England win by about 7 points. We all know how that can change. I suggest we keep Haskell, Brown, Care and Hartley on a short leash and warn Farrell not to be silly.

Players I worry about? All the Welsh line up. however, I believe that we are a good match for them all and we have the home advantage - I can't see England letting this one get away. They'll be wanting to make up for last year. England to win in a good match.

Wales don't have the best defence in the NH, and haven't done for two seasons. Ireland have. I think England's is the strongest thus far this season, if you're only taking into account tries conceded.

Anyway the Wales team is similar to the one that last entered Twickenham, except with a much stronger set piece and bench, so I was a bit confused to see some overconfidence earlier in the week. I guess that's just passion.....or arrogance .

mikey_dragon wrote:Wales don't have the best defence in the NH, and haven't done for two seasons. Ireland have. I think England's is the strongest thus far this season, if you're only taking into account tries conceded.

Anyway the Wales team is similar to the one that last entered Twickenham, except with a much stronger set piece and bench, so I was a bit confused to see some overconfidence earlier in the week. I guess that's just passion.....or arrogance .

Mikey, look at the previous results in the OP, It's pretty clear that it's swings and roundabouts between us. The wales team that entered twickenham last time is pretty similar the team that England beat in the Millennium last year. As gwlad says, tactical errors gave wales that game, we were in control but gave you a sniff and you duly took it. i don't think Jones will be so naive this year, but equally, wales are a very dangerous team when they build momentum and get their tales up.

I'm expecting one helluva game but think we'll take it - just like you think wales will win it you arrogant so and so

stub says arrogance for sure Mikey

I can't call this but have a feeling that England will sneak it - just.

That said, I would not be at all surprised if Wales win it or if England win it quite comfortably.

Like I said clueless really, but you already knew that.

Eng avoid pens in their 22 Madge? Think you must mean their half don't you ?

Dontheman2 wrote:Eng avoid pens in their 22 Madge? Think you must mean their half don't you ?

22 is so five years or more ago, you're right.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:'England are playing direct rugby and getting it through their hands quickly to the back 3'

I would have thought it would have been one or the other, however, direct is fine if you break the gain line. England are doing it with Billy V & Wales with Roberts.
The difference is that with a 12 looking for contact instead of space or passing, is that the attack is very often stifled in the backs and whilst Englnds wingers are seeing some ball Wales wingers are rarely getting a touch.
I'm not suggesting this is going to decide the game but it's a lot more interesting to watch & hopefully more successful.

So what you are say8ing is that England's attack is based around one style? I guess we call that EddieBall right?

I think Biggar has learnt a thing or two from Dan Carters use of space and Doc is definitely developing his passing. In his Independent column yesterday he said they were working on their attacking play. Seems that old Warrenball slur is old hat. Wales by 10

Wales attacking ploy will be to kick the ball in behind England and hope they man sausage-up and give us a penalty or do a plisson. Our best chance to win is England having an off day. Nothing from the first three games gives me any confidence. The fact that the management were happy with the performance against the worst French team in memory tells me that well employ the same game plan against England, the only difference is that England are more competent than france

Dontheman2

You think Biggar may of learnt a lot from Dan Carter....One thing Biggar did learn from DanCarter is that Dance of his.
I have nothing against Biggar at all. I just wish he would choose a different kicking style. That dance of his nearly sends me to sleep.

Wales certainly have the edge in experience and being the settled side but that doesn't mean a lot and wont mean a lot if we can't at least bring something different to our attack.

I will be very surprised if there is more than a score in it.

majesticimperialman wrote:Dontheman2

You think Biggar may of learnt a lot from Dan Carter....One thing Biggar did learn from DanCarter is that Dance of his.
I have nothing against Biggar at all. I just wish he would choose a different kicking style. That dance of his nearly sends me to sleep.

Strange post. What do you want from a kicking routine then? How can Biggar provide you with more razzmatazz? Should he imitate Farrell's creepy eye thing?

Gwlad wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:'England are playing direct rugby and getting it through their hands quickly to the back 3'

I would have thought it would have been one or the other, however, direct is fine if you break the gain line. England are doing it with Billy V & Wales with Roberts.
The difference is that with a 12 looking for contact instead of space or passing, is that the attack is very often stifled in the backs and whilst Englnds wingers are seeing some ball Wales wingers are rarely getting a touch.
I'm not suggesting this is going to decide the game but it's a lot more interesting to watch & hopefully more successful.

So what you are say8ing is that England's attack is based around one style? I guess we call that EddieBall right?

i was comparing the direct style of rugby that Wales have adopted & the direct running of Billy V. The difference in styles is in the 3/4s where Englands attacks aren't stifled by a 12 that seeks contact.
The Welsh style isn't complicated but that doesn't mean it is easy to beat. I just don't think it is easy on the eye but I'm sure some Welsh fans are happy to see more wins than losses, however, it comes.
The 6Ns is normally tight and the style has proved to be more successful than not but equally it has its limitations beyond that competition.

15 - 15 a draw,witha missed dropgoal in the last second.

Surprised no-one has mentioned the importance of the ref.
Last October England were penalised for some very soft penalties which kept Wales in touch on the scoreboard. Garces opted for alternate penalties in the first half - Gatlands expression at half time was priceless, in that they were still in it.

I have no idea what Joubert will do but statistically England do pretty well at home with SH refs, whereas when away, England generally lose. Even Steve Walsh presided over an English win against the Irish two years ago.

Restrict three pointers for the Welsh and they will not score many tries, unless this is the game for a new Gatland approach ??

The Jones & Borthwick brains trust will have a plan but can the players deliver ?
So far England have smashed the extra yard over the gain line and pretty sure Jones will asking for the ref to ensure no side entry at subsequent rucks which the welsh are best at currently. The set piece will be pretty even but with scrums being a lottery, England will target the welsh line-out as they will have gained a lot of confidence from the Irish game where Toner got out thought.
England should win but by no means a given.
Looking forward to it.

If Charteris is fit which hope he is then I think we will provide more of a threat to Englands line out than they will to ours.

I wouldn't bank on that Bedford, Toner was supposed to do the same and ended up being ineffective, we even turned a few of their lineouts over.

yappysnap wrote:I wouldn't bank on that Bedford, Toner was supposed to do the same and ended up being ineffective, we even turned a few of their lineouts over.

Charteris isn't Toner

The last line out he had v England, perhaps you remember it, he very adeptly ushered the ball carrier into touch after Robshaw called for the line out from a penalty

Gwlad wrote:

yappysnap wrote:I wouldn't bank on that Bedford, Toner was supposed to do the same and ended up being ineffective, we even turned a few of their lineouts over.

Charteris isn't Toner

The last line out he had v England, perhaps you remember it,  he very adeptly ushered the ball carrier into touch after Robshaw called for the line out from a penalty

Robshaw is not captain any more.

Borthwick is the best in the business when it comes to line-out analysis.

Chatteris is a good player but Kruis, Launchbury & Itoje are perfectly capable line-out specialists in addition to smashing through the gain line, which appears to be Jones' prerequisite.

Slater apparently joining the squad according to Richard Cockerell

Gwlad wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:'England are playing direct rugby and getting it through their hands quickly to the back 3'

I would have thought it would have been one or the other, however, direct is fine if you break the gain line. England are doing it with Billy V & Wales with Roberts.
The difference is that with a 12 looking for contact instead of space or passing, is that the attack is very often stifled in the backs and whilst Englnds wingers are seeing some ball Wales wingers are rarely getting a touch.
I'm not suggesting this is going to decide the game but it's a lot more interesting to watch & hopefully more successful.

So what you are say8ing is that England's attack is based around one style? I guess we call that EddieBall right?

You might. However, for Jones combining good defence with attack centred on Billy V is just stage one of England's development. He will add more layers. In contrast Gatlandball seems to be the end point for Wales.

Exiledinborders wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:'England are playing direct rugby and getting it through their hands quickly to the back 3'

I would have thought it would have been one or the other, however, direct is fine if you break the gain line. England are doing it with Billy V & Wales with Roberts.
The difference is that with a 12 looking for contact instead of space or passing, is that the attack is very often stifled in the backs and whilst Englnds wingers are seeing some ball Wales wingers are rarely getting a touch.
I'm not suggesting this is going to decide the game but it's a lot more interesting to watch & hopefully more successful.

So what you are say8ing is that England's attack is based around one style? I guess we call that EddieBall right?

You might. However, for Jones combining good defence with attack centred on Billy V is just stage one of England's development. He will add more layers. In contrast Gatlandball seems to be the end point for Wales.

Yes you're right, that's why he is picking Manu to offer a more subtle approach right?

Looks like Lawes is out. Hope Launchbury is back on form.

Anyone know when the teams are announced?

Not that I imagine there to be too many surprises this week

BamBam wrote:Slater apparently joining the squad according to Richard Cockerell

I'd be very happy for Slater should this be true. One of the best uncapped players out there. He's got a real battle ahead of him in the future with both Launchbury and Itoje exceptional young players, but I wouldn't rule him out (a possible 6 as well if you really want to beef things up).

maestegmafia wrote:Anyone know when the teams are announced?

Not that I imagine there to be too many surprises this week

Eddie won't say.

TightHEAD wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Anyone know when the teams are announced?

Not that I imagine there to be too many surprises this week

Eddie won't say.

I believe Warren isn't saying much either. Don't they underlings who can talk cr@p instead?

Really looking forward to this match. Wales are the more settled squad but England are on a definitely on the up.

Have no idea who will win this. Good luck to both fans

Rhys Webb added to Wales squad

England will seek to batter the Welsh pack and drive them back over the Severn with their tails between their legs. That fluke in the RWC still hurts. I expect a powerful backlash and if the home crowd get up it will be very uncomfortable place for the Welshies. On the otherhand Roberts might run over Ford and score a try to snatch it. Who knows?

nobbled wrote:Looks like Lawes is out. Hope Launchbury is back on form.

Amazing how quickly it has become vital for England that Kruis is not injured.

Don't think it's vital. Of all the positions lock is the strongest for England. Doesn't mean that we wouldn't notice Kruis absence as for me he's been the standout player of the tournament let alone, forward/Englishman.

englandglory4ever wrote:England will seek to batter the Welsh pack and drive them back over the Severn with their tails between their legs. That fluke in the RWC still hurts. I expect a powerful backlash and if the home crowd get up it will be very uncomfortable place for the Welshies. On the otherhand Roberts might run over Ford and score a try to snatch it. Who knows?

Roberts will be out of the game by then, Eddie will want to target him, Biggar and North's glass ankle.

I just hope Lydiate tries to use his arms when he attempts to tackle.

TightHEAD wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:England will seek to batter the Welsh pack and drive them back over the Severn with their tails between their legs. That fluke in the RWC still hurts. I expect a powerful backlash and if the home crowd get up it will be very uncomfortable place for the Welshies. On the otherhand Roberts might run over Ford and score a try to snatch it. Who knows?

Roberts will be out of the game by then, Eddie will want to target him, Biggar and North's glass ankle.

I just hope Lydiate tries to use his arms when he attempts to tackle.

And we'll be hoping none of the England boys kick our guys in the head when they're on the floor which is an England trait isnt it

TightHEAD wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:England will seek to batter the Welsh pack and drive them back over the Severn with their tails between their legs. That fluke in the RWC still hurts. I expect a powerful backlash and if the home crowd get up it will be very uncomfortable place for the Welshies. On the otherhand Roberts might run over Ford and score a try to snatch it. Who knows?

Roberts will be out of the game by then, Eddie will want to target him, Biggar and North's glass ankle.

I just hope Lydiate tries to use his arms when he attempts to tackle.

I would be surprised if anyone's tactic was to injure the opposition.

Thinking that is the only way you will win is admitting defeat before you even kick off