Marler to Face World Rugby Hearing

by Allty Wed Mar 23, 2016 7:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

From BBC

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35887510

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:38 am

No, just thought it was the 4th.

by Cyril Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:43 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup, hearings today. I do hope that WR don't swing the other way and hand a harsh ban out just because the first panel were useless. A bans deserved, an harsh example isn't.

Agree with that. I do worry that a 'we have to be seen to be doing something' sanction might be enforced. I wonder what the ramifications will be for 6Ns personnel will be and whether any heads will roll?

by beshocked Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:43 am

no 7 & 1/2

Gooseberry anyone can be belittled for anything -whether it's height,weight etc. Some is accepted as "banter". I just don't see this as any worse than if Marler called him a fat £$^&. You can be hurtful to someone without being deemed racist. I don't see why this comment should be put on a pedestal.

My point is what Marler did, shouldn't be applauded or indeed ignored but then again I think it should have been dealt with in a better manner. At least Lee got an apology, I know to some of you an apology doesn't matter. I do, I think it's an acknowledgement of regret and admission of guilt.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:47 am

It's down to society as much as anything beshocked surely. What was once prevalent is now frowned upon. Insult someone and use race, sexulaity it's probably going to land you in hotter water than just the insult ie gay bas**** rather than bas****. I do agree Marler stood up and that should be taken into account, with previous behaviour as it would anything. Minimum ban should be 4 weeks isn't it? Surely the apology and the fact it was heat of the moment shouldn't reduce it to 0?

by BamBam Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:50 am

beshocked wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
beshocked wrote:
Could have been worse I guess.... imagine if this was Ashton, his balls would have been nailed to a cross already.

Christopher Ashton - the mind goes into meltdown.

Amen..... to be fair... Ashton is the saviour.....

Haven't seen the incident but sounds like Ashton was his normal abrasive self vs Bath, just can't keep his head down can he?

Him and Farrell deserve their reputation as the biggest plonkers at Saracens.

Nigel makes it close

by Gooseberry Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:51 am

Beshocked, its OK for us to single Ashton out and treat him differently to others because I dont think hes a proper race.

by beshocked Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:49 am

Gooseberry ultimately it comes down to some individuals as fair game for abuse but for others.... no no!

Abuse is still abuse that can offend someone, gets complicated when you put one on a pedestal.

Gypsies have been put on a pedestal.

Bambam well you're entitled to disagree but I have much more respect for Wray than Farrell and Ashton.

Wray a fair target for abuse of course... No he's not a race but that makes abuse fine?

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:52 am

Do you really not see a big difference between calling someone a di** and black d***?

by Jimpy Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:20 pm

The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

by beshocked Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:24 pm

Of course there is a difference but it's still a rude word with the intention to offend the target.

Abuse is still abuse. You can offend someone just as much IMO by talking about someone's weight,height etc as much as the colour of their skin or heritage. Depends on the individual.

Except some abuse is accepted/ not punished whilst others are stuck on pedestals.

The world is sadly full of conflict. When you have a society treats certain abuses differently it can breed resentment.

You can be bullied or taunted for anything if you're different in some way. Do you not see the inconsistency?

There is a case of a lady in america

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDlQ4H0Kdg8

This is about racist as you can get. Will she be punished? We'll see. This isn't just heat of the moment in a rugby game.

This is far worse than what Marler said/did.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:30 pm

Can't watch youtube so I'll accept it's worse. Next time you see someone punch someone will you be calling for no ban as it was heat of the moment?

by Fanster Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:32 pm

Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

So your blaming Wales, as a country or just Welsh rugby fans? Theyre the thorn in the side of society?

I think you'll find the posters here who are calling for a big ban are probably a very consistent mixture of all nationalities, Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh posters have all condemned his behaviour.

If your justificating racism because of 'sore losers' I feel sorry for you.

by beshocked Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:44 pm

no 7 & 1/2 I never said no ban, my argument has always been deal with it asap. Not put one insult on a pedestal.

Just makes things worse to drag it on and on.

What's a "fair" punishment is also a difficult one.

We should not still be talking about this.

What Marler did was wrong but I think it's been made a much bigger deal than it should be.

Personally I think a punch is worse but perhaps that's just me.

I think grabbing someone's balls is worse too but there's not been much furore for the lack of punishment for Wilson. Of course Wilson wasn't deemed "racist".

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:47 pm

It's been made worse by the botched handling. It would have been done and dusted had they just given him 2-3 weeks. Different incidents of course but you would never even think a punch would be condoned for heat of the moment. Ridiculous reason not to ban someone.

by HammerofThunor Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:54 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Do you really not see a big difference between calling someone a di** and black d***?

It shouldn't matter what you call someone. It should be why you're insulting them. Calling a black person a "di**" because you don't like black people is worse than calling a black person a "black di**" because he cut you up in the car or spilt your pint (IMO of course).

However it is pretty much impossible to tell why someone said something so we go with the current system, which can let people off with being racist scum bags if they're careful with what terms they use. It's the middle ground which can be proven. Was this said? Yes/no. Sorted.

Similar with the eligibility rules. Really we want ones based on whether player truly feel part of the nation, instead we have some very simple and clear eligibility criteria.

by HammerofThunor Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:56 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's been made worse by the botched handling. It would have been done and dusted had they just given him 2-3 weeks. Different incidents of course but you would never even think a punch would be condoned for heat of the moment. Ridiculous reason not to ban someone.

Well, Marler wasn't banned for his strike on Evans. If he had done it while going in at half time I think he would have been.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:00 pm

He was lucky for that in my opinion. Seriously though have you known heat of the moment used as a reason to let someone off other than this?

by beshocked Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:03 pm

no 7 & 1/2 we agree, it should have been done and dusted.

I am talking about mitigating factors.

I am not saying Marler is innocent or he did nothing wrong. I am saying that this has been made a bigger deal than it should be in my opinion.

It's the "punishment", how it should be dealt with we disagree on.

I wouldn't punish him for "racist" abuse, if he's going to be punished it should be for the intent to hurt Lee's feelings. Try and root out an intolerant nature. It shouldn't matter he called him a "gypsy" if Rugby union wants to root out abuse.

If you do punish Marler you set a precedence, remember that.

by Hoonercat Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:04 pm

Beshocked wrote:I think grabbing someone's balls is worse too but there's not been much furore for the lack of punishment for Wilson.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's been made worse by the botched handling.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:06 pm

Marler has to be punished beshocked otherwise the precedent is set that rules can be ignored when you want and if you're angry you won't get punished as long as you show regret afterwards.

by Fanster Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:09 pm

Problem Marler is now, is that World Rugby have caused a bigger storm by overriding 6N, and people like Damian Hopley of the EPA are not helping whatsoever.

This histeria wont end with an obligitory 2 weeks, the more attention it attracts the more pressure World Rugby has on them to make an example of Marler.

I hope i'm wrong but I suspect Marler may turn out to be the big victim in all of this.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:12 pm

WR had to do something though, they need to now complete it by not going over the top.

by LordDowlais Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:15 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Do you really not see a big difference between calling someone a di** and black d***?

One is a bigger d1ck than the other ?

Run

Sorry couldn't resist.

by Fanster Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:16 pm

I agree they didn't have a choice, but when do NGB's or IGB's ever use common sense?

They react when they have to, and overreact when they have not to.

by LordDowlais Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:17 pm

Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

Are you for real ? Rolling Eyes

by Jimpy Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:35 pm

Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

So your blaming Wales, as a country or just Welsh rugby fans? Theyre the thorn in the side of society?

I think you'll find the posters here who are calling for a big ban are probably a very consistent mixture of all nationalities, Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh posters have all condemned his behaviour.

If your justificating racism because of 'sore losers' I feel sorry for you.

That's abuse that is. How dare you feel sorry for me - but do you know what, i'll get over it.

Unfortunately, all we need now is for some pant wetting do-gooding, PC leftie Richard Head with too much time on their hands to come along and get upset on my behalf. Before you know it, i'll be put on a pedestal as the victim of systematic abuse.

Probably.

by Fanster Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:37 pm

Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

So your blaming Wales, as a country or just Welsh rugby fans? Theyre the thorn in the side of society?

I think you'll find the posters here who are calling for a big ban are probably a very consistent mixture of all nationalities, Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh posters have all condemned his behaviour.

If your justificating racism because of 'sore losers' I feel sorry for you.

That's abuse that is. How dare you feel sorry for me - but do you know what, i'll get over it.

Unfortunately, all we need now is for some pant wetting do-gooding, PC leftie Richard Head with too much time on their hands to come along and get upset on my behalf. Before you know it, i'll be put on a pedestal as the victim of systematic abuse.

Probably.

Sadly for you this perfectly highlights your ignorance, not even Mikey Dragon could rock up and throw an insult as effective as you've just done yourself,

Bravo

by Jimpy Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:39 pm

Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

So your blaming Wales, as a country or just Welsh rugby fans? Theyre the thorn in the side of society?

I think you'll find the posters here who are calling for a big ban are probably a very consistent mixture of all nationalities, Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh posters have all condemned his behaviour.

If your justificating racism because of 'sore losers' I feel sorry for you.

That's abuse that is. How dare you feel sorry for me - but do you know what, i'll get over it.

Unfortunately, all we need now is for some pant wetting do-gooding, PC leftie Richard Head with too much time on their hands to come along and get upset on my behalf. Before you know it, i'll be put on a pedestal as the victim of systematic abuse.

Probably.

Sadly for you this perfectly highlights your ignorance, not even Mikey Dragon could rock up and throw an insult as effective as you've just done yourself,

Bravo

See there you go again, abusing me.

Terrible this is, it wont be long before Warren Gatland pipes up and tells me not to worry, as it was just banter, then completely reverse that comment after pressure comes on from the WRU.

by Fanster Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:42 pm

Are you currently trying to make 606v2 great again?

by funnyExiledScot Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:43 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 we agree, it should have been done and dusted.

I am talking about mitigating factors.

I am not saying Marler is innocent or he did nothing wrong. I am saying that this has been made a bigger deal than it should be in my opinion.

It's the "punishment", how it should be dealt with we disagree on.

I wouldn't punish him for "racist" abuse, if he's going to be punished it should be for the intent to hurt Lee's feelings. Try and root out an intolerant nature. It shouldn't matter he called him a "gypsy" if Rugby union wants to root out abuse.

If you do punish Marler you set a precedence, remember that.

This would be an amusing addition to the criminal law, and would take a spike in govt resources to enforce!!

by mikey_dragon Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:44 pm

Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

So your blaming Wales, as a country or just Welsh rugby fans? Theyre the thorn in the side of society?

I think you'll find the posters here who are calling for a big ban are probably a very consistent mixture of all nationalities, Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh posters have all condemned his behaviour.

If your justificating racism because of 'sore losers' I feel sorry for you.

That's abuse that is. How dare you feel sorry for me - but do you know what, i'll get over it.

Unfortunately, all we need now is for some pant wetting do-gooding, PC leftie Richard Head with too much time on their hands to come along and get upset on my behalf. Before you know it, i'll be put on a pedestal as the victim of systematic abuse.

Probably.

Sadly for you this perfectly highlights your ignorance, not even Mikey Dragon could rock up and throw an insult as effective as you've just done yourself,

Bravo

See there you go again, abusing me.

Terrible this is, it wont be long before Warren Gatland pipes up and tells me not to worry, as it was just banter, then completely reverse that comment after pressure comes on from the WRU.

Jimpy you'll have to excuse the wannabe boyo. His rugby knowledge is quite wide of the mark, not only that but Welsh and English society reject him which has lead to his present-confused state.

As for you, do you honestly believe world rugby are that bothered about Wales losing to England? I can assure you that that isn't their agenda. Are you looking for a scapegoat? Surely that should be either Marler or Joubert. Lee, Gatland and team Wales have moved on.

by Fanster Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:49 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

So your blaming Wales, as a country or just Welsh rugby fans? Theyre the thorn in the side of society?

I think you'll find the posters here who are calling for a big ban are probably a very consistent mixture of all nationalities, Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh posters have all condemned his behaviour.

If your justificating racism because of 'sore losers' I feel sorry for you.

That's abuse that is. How dare you feel sorry for me - but do you know what, i'll get over it.

Unfortunately, all we need now is for some pant wetting do-gooding, PC leftie Richard Head with too much time on their hands to come along and get upset on my behalf. Before you know it, i'll be put on a pedestal as the victim of systematic abuse.

Probably.

Sadly for you this perfectly highlights your ignorance, not even Mikey Dragon could rock up and throw an insult as effective as you've just done yourself,

Bravo

See there you go again, abusing me.

Terrible this is, it wont be long before Warren Gatland pipes up and tells me not to worry, as it was just banter, then completely reverse that comment after pressure comes on from the WRU.

Jimpy you'll have to excuse the wannabe boyo. His rugby knowledge is quite wide of the mark, not only that but Welsh and English society reject him which has lead to his present-confused state.

As for you, do you honestly believe world rugby are that bothered about Wales losing to England? I can assure you that that isn't their agenda. Are you looking for a scapegoat? Surely that should be either Marler or Joubert. Lee, Gatland and team Wales have moved on.

Perfectly (if not suspiciously) timed...

by Jimpy Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:49 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

So your blaming Wales, as a country or just Welsh rugby fans? Theyre the thorn in the side of society?

I think you'll find the posters here who are calling for a big ban are probably a very consistent mixture of all nationalities, Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh posters have all condemned his behaviour.

If your justificating racism because of 'sore losers' I feel sorry for you.

That's abuse that is. How dare you feel sorry for me - but do you know what, i'll get over it.

Unfortunately, all we need now is for some pant wetting do-gooding, PC leftie Richard Head with too much time on their hands to come along and get upset on my behalf. Before you know it, i'll be put on a pedestal as the victim of systematic abuse.

Probably.

Sadly for you this perfectly highlights your ignorance, not even Mikey Dragon could rock up and throw an insult as effective as you've just done yourself,

Bravo

See there you go again, abusing me.

Terrible this is, it wont be long before Warren Gatland pipes up and tells me not to worry, as it was just banter, then completely reverse that comment after pressure comes on from the WRU.

Jimpy you'll have to excuse the wannabe boyo. His rugby knowledge is quite wide of the mark, not only that but Welsh and English society reject him which has lead to his present-confused state.

As for you, do you honestly believe world rugby are that bothered about Wales losing to England? I can assure you that that isn't their agenda. Are you looking for a scapegoat? Surely that should be either Marler or Joubert. Lee, Gatland and team Wales have moved on.

After lighting the fuse paper and moving on you mean....

by LordDowlais Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:53 pm

jimpy, please leave this Welsh agenda nonsense out of this, this has nothing to do with losing to England. Anyway what difference does it make ? England GS will not get taken off you.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:57 pm

Jimpy wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:
Fanster wrote:
Jimpy wrote:The real reason we're having to endure this ridiculous and unnecessary saga is that Wales lost to England. It seems nobody calling for Marler's head wants to admit it.

It's a relatively simple equation, but its the truth.

The papers picked up on it and it's given the pant-wetting PC brigade something to run with. They're never happier than when getting all upset on someone else's behalf.

They're the real thorn in society's side.

So your blaming Wales, as a country or just Welsh rugby fans? Theyre the thorn in the side of society?

I think you'll find the posters here who are calling for a big ban are probably a very consistent mixture of all nationalities, Scottish, Irish, English and Welsh posters have all condemned his behaviour.

If your justificating racism because of 'sore losers' I feel sorry for you.

That's abuse that is. How dare you feel sorry for me - but do you know what, i'll get over it.

Unfortunately, all we need now is for some pant wetting do-gooding, PC leftie Richard Head with too much time on their hands to come along and get upset on my behalf. Before you know it, i'll be put on a pedestal as the victim of systematic abuse.

Probably.

Sadly for you this perfectly highlights your ignorance, not even Mikey Dragon could rock up and throw an insult as effective as you've just done yourself,

Bravo

See there you go again, abusing me.

Terrible this is, it wont be long before Warren Gatland pipes up and tells me not to worry, as it was just banter, then completely reverse that comment after pressure comes on from the WRU.

Jimpy you'll have to excuse the wannabe boyo. His rugby knowledge is quite wide of the mark, not only that but Welsh and English society reject him which has lead to his present-confused state.

As for you, do you honestly believe world rugby are that bothered about Wales losing to England? I can assure you that that isn't their agenda. Are you looking for a scapegoat? Surely that should be either Marler or Joubert. Lee, Gatland and team Wales have moved on.

After lighting the fuse paper and moving on you mean....

Pretty sure Gatland tried to brush it off as 'just banter'.

by beshocked Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:29 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Marler has to be punished beshocked otherwise the precedent is set that rules can be ignored when you want and if you're angry you won't get punished as long as you show regret afterwards.

What rule? Thou shalt not call someone a gypsy boy.....

FES that's my point. If you enforce every "insult" then a the PC (Politically Correct) police division needs to formed. Throw Marler in jail with thousands others and throw away the key.

A heinous crime indeed.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:33 pm

Rules on racial abuse. Think it carries 4 weeks as a minimum. Marler has acknowledged it as have the 6Ns. Putting aside the fact you disagree that it's racist, even you said it deserved a ban.

by Guest Mon Apr 04, 2016 9:35 pm

Marler apologises, again, on eve of hearing.... Marler

I don't doubt his sincerity, but I always think these social media apologies look bad, especially so when considering the timing.

by GLove39 Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:44 pm

Speaking of social media, with rock solid character testimonials like these I don't think he's anything to fear tomorrow...

https://twitter.com/ugomonye/status/716372460443201536

https://twitter.com/nick_easter/status/716372767894061056

by Poorfour Mon Apr 04, 2016 10:56 pm

Munchkin wrote:Marler apologises, again, on eve of hearing.... Marler

I don't doubt his sincerity, but I always think these social media apologies look bad, especially so when considering the timing.

He's only reiterating what he's already said before, and appears to have released a press release as well. Social media is, unfortunately, part and parcel of being in the spotlight these days.

He's also making a couple of important points - that he accepts that he was out of line and will accept whatever punishment he is given. Be interesting to see what that is in the context of hearings for gouging and biting taking place - albeit in a different forum - at the same time.

by majesticimperialman Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:05 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Marler apologises, again, on eve of hearing.... Marler

I don't doubt his sincerity, but I always think these social media apologies look bad, especially so when considering the timing.

He's only reiterating what he's already said before, and appears to have released a press release as well. Social media is, unfortunately, part and parcel of being in the spotlight these days.

He's also making a couple of important points - that he accepts that he was out of line and will accept whatever punishment he is given. Be interesting to see what that is in the context of hearings for gouging and biting taking place - albeit in a different forum - at the same time.

It will also be interesting too see what punishment Marler gets. To what punishment other players get from different countries for the same offence.

And as Poorfour says will the likes of ( biting, gouging, ) be given heaver punishments, or will they be lesser punishments.

by aucklandlaurie Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:49 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Marler apologises, again, on eve of hearing.... Marler

I don't doubt his sincerity, but I always think these social media apologies look bad, especially so when considering the timing.

He's only reiterating what he's already said before, and appears to have released a press release as well. Social media is, unfortunately, part and parcel of being in the spotlight these days.

He's also making a couple of important points - that he accepts that he was out of line and will accept whatever punishment he is given. Be interesting to see what that is in the context of hearings for gouging and biting taking place - albeit in a different forum - at the same time.

It will also be interesting too see what punishment Marler gets. To what punishment other players get from different countries for the same offence.

And as Poorfour says will the likes of ( biting, gouging, ) be given heaver punishments, or will they be lesser punishments.

No prop in New Zealand has ever been cited for calling another prop mean names let alone a gypsy.

Its a good opportunity to see what the difference between the Heispheres is in terme of not only what constitutes an offence, but also the severity of the offence.
But Marler will probably get a longer ban than David Pocock gets for his neck roll on Michael Leitch.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:23 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:No prop in New Zealand has ever been cited for calling another prop mean names let alone a gypsy.

Its a good opportunity to see what the difference between the Hemispheres is in terme of not only what constitutes an offence, but also the severity of the offence.
But Marler will probably get a longer ban than David Pocock gets for his neck roll on Michael Leitch.

Not sure about SANZAR ignoring on-pitch abuse, Laurie.

The comparable case is Jacques Potgieter. He called two Brumbies players faggots last year. It wasn't picked up on any microphones, but the Brumbies complained (Pocock was at the centre, but he was backed by his team) and Potgieter was fined $20,000, with $10,000 suspended. He then went along to meet with Sydney Convicts, a local gay rugby team.

All this was sorted a day after the incident, which is surely the right way to handle such matters.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/busting-the-myths-of-david-pococks-role-in-potgieters-homophobic-slur-20150326-1m8ocz.html

Also, the panel on Tuesday won't tell us much about hemisphere difference because it has been ordered by World Rugby. The Six Nations already dealt with the matter by deciding on no punishment.

by Poorfour Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:05 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:No prop in New Zealand has ever been cited for calling another prop mean names let alone a gypsy.

Its a good opportunity to see what the difference between the Hemispheres is in terme of not only what constitutes an offence, but also the severity of the offence.
But Marler will probably get a longer ban than David Pocock gets for his neck roll on Michael Leitch.
Not sure about SANZAR ignoring on-pitch abuse, Laurie.

The comparable case is Jacques Potgieter. He called two Brumbies players faggots last year. It wasn't picked up on any microphones, but the Brumbies complained (Pocock was at the centre, but he was backed by his team) and Potgieter was fined $20,000, with $10,000 suspended. He then went along to meet with Sydney Convicts, a local gay rugby team.

All this was sorted a day after the incident, which is surely the right way to handle such matters.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/busting-the-myths-of-david-pococks-role-in-potgieters-homophobic-slur-20150326-1m8ocz.html

Also, the panel on Tuesday won't tell us much about hemisphere difference because it has been ordered by World Rugby. The Six Nations already dealt with the matter by deciding on no punishment.

Thanks RF. That's a useful benchmark. Slightly different offence and weaker evidence but similar or worse in severity: "faggot" is unambiguously offensive when applied to a person, there were two separate instances against two separate individuals and Marler's actions in apologising at the earliest possible opportunity is presumably more than Potgeiter did.

What's the betting that Marler is handed a stiffer punishment?

by exile jack Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:08 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Munchkin wrote:Marler apologises, again, on eve of hearing.... Marler

I don't doubt his sincerity, but I always think these social media apologies look bad, especially so when considering the timing.

He's only reiterating what he's already said before, and appears to have released a press release as well. Social media is, unfortunately, part and parcel of being in the spotlight these days.

He's also making a couple of important points - that he accepts that he was out of line and will accept whatever punishment he is given. Be interesting to see what that is in the context of hearings for gouging and biting taking place - albeit in a different forum - at the same time.

It will also be interesting too see what punishment Marler gets. To what punishment other players get from different countries for the same offence.

And as Poorfour says will the likes of ( biting, gouging, ) be given heaver punishments, or will they be lesser punishments.

No prop in New Zealand has ever been cited for calling another prop mean names let alone a gypsy.

Its a good opportunity to see what the difference between the Heispheres is in terme of not only what constitutes an offence, but also the severity of the offence.
But Marler will probably get a longer ban than David Pocock gets for his neck roll on Michael Leitch.

You can't be serious.NZ,the country that gave us the physical assaults of Mealamu/Umaga on BOD,and Andrew Hore on Bradley Davies,and Jamie Joseph on Kyran Bracken to name but a few.Punch the search term 'violence in NZ rugby' into the Internet and sit back and reflect.You are having a laugh.

by yappysnap Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:16 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:No prop in New Zealand has ever been cited for calling another prop mean names let alone a gypsy.

Its a good opportunity to see what the difference between the Hemispheres is in terme of not only what constitutes an offence, but also the severity of the offence.
But Marler will probably get a longer ban than David Pocock gets for his neck roll on Michael Leitch.
Not sure about SANZAR ignoring on-pitch abuse, Laurie.

The comparable case is Jacques Potgieter. He called two Brumbies players faggots last year. It wasn't picked up on any microphones, but the Brumbies complained (Pocock was at the centre, but he was backed by his team) and Potgieter was fined $20,000, with $10,000 suspended. He then went along to meet with Sydney Convicts, a local gay rugby team.

All this was sorted a day after the incident, which is surely the right way to handle such matters.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/busting-the-myths-of-david-pococks-role-in-potgieters-homophobic-slur-20150326-1m8ocz.html

Also, the panel on Tuesday won't tell us much about hemisphere difference because it has been ordered by World Rugby. The Six Nations already dealt with the matter by deciding on no punishment.

I was just saying yesterday that Marler should be fined and then sent to some kind of group as community service. A match ban just doesn't seem right for this kind of incident.

Glad to see there has been a precedent set, probably won't be followed though. I'm expecting him to get a long ban to set an example.

by Gooseberry Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:40 am

yappysnap wrote:

I was just saying yesterday that Marler should be fined and then sent to some kind of group as community service. A match ban just doesn't seem right for this kind of incident.

Glad to see there has been a precedent set, probably won't be followed though. I'm expecting him to get a long ban to set an example.

Yeah maybe he could be sent to tarmac some driveways?

I diagree wholeheartedly with the "setting an example" notion.
The example should be that the appropriate level of punishment will be given related to the level of the offense. The first panel deemed that that was a stern finger wagging, if World Rugby determines is a 10 week ban and castration then that really doesnt make anyone look good.
It exagerattes the level of offence and makes it Marler look like Beshocked or Hitler, it makes world rugby look like a Student Union Coucil run by Jeremy Corbyn, and it makes the 6 nations panel look like absolute idiots. It'll also send the internet in even more fits of white middle class anger.

It is possible to accept that this was a pretty low level offence but that a minimal ban is still appropriate. Persoanly I dont have any great issue with the original decision, but its pretty clear that World Rugby dont beleive that adequate process was followed in making that decision and are seriously concerned that the rules werent applied in the way they were intended to be. If they find that is the cas ethen a ban is appropriate, but only a minimal one. 4 weeks is still significant, whether thats applied now (business end of the season) or in the summer (scuppering his chances of touring at all).

Th idea of hanging someone for being the first high profile case to be charged with a particular thing even if it is a borderline case isnt one Im on board with at all.

by funnyExiledScot Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:48 am

When is this thing going to be over?

by fa0019 Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:49 am

every country has their own record of ill discipline., NZ, SA, Europe, Argentina etc no one is really standout. I'd probably say the French were the worst where the eye gouge traditional meant something completely different compared to the rest of the world; for many years it was just efficient ruck clearing techniques to them.

I think what Laurie was suggesting is that no NZ prop would dare allow something such as name calling to go beyond their internal one on one battle and such things would be dealt with by themselves. Those of us old enough to have played during the amateur era are probably more prone to want to dealt with things in-house, that's the way we were taught the game.

I recall once after I spoke to the referee about some guy had put me in an armbar in a ruck and was close to breaking my arm. My captain literally gave me a slap and told me to deal with him myself and stop being such a cry baby.

Doesn't mean what Marler said was acceptable, just that how people react to it/deal with it is different depending on culture and generation.

by Jimpy Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:05 am

Gooseberry wrote:
yappysnap wrote:

I was just saying yesterday that Marler should be fined and then sent to some kind of group as community service. A match ban just doesn't seem right for this kind of incident.

Glad to see there has been a precedent set, probably won't be followed though. I'm expecting him to get a long ban to set an example.

Yeah maybe he could be sent to tarmac some driveways?

I diagree wholeheartedly with the "setting an example" notion.
The example should be that the appropriate level of punishment will be given related to the level of the offense. The first panel deemed that that was a stern finger wagging, if World Rugby determines is a 10 week ban and castration then that really doesnt make anyone look good.
It exagerattes the level of offence and makes it Marler look like Beshocked or Hitler, it makes world rugby look like a Student Union Coucil run by Jeremy Corbyn, and it makes the 6 nations panel look like absolute idiots. It'll also send the internet in even more fits of white middle class anger.

It is possible to accept that this was a pretty low level offence but that a minimal ban is still appropriate. Persoanly I dont have any great issue with the original decision, but its pretty clear that World Rugby dont beleive that adequate process was followed in making that decision and are seriously concerned that the rules werent applied in the way they were intended to be. If they find that is the cas ethen a ban is appropriate, but only a minimal one. 4 weeks is still significant, whether thats applied now (business end of the season) or in the summer (scuppering his chances of touring at all).

Th idea of hanging someone for being the first high profile case to be charged with a particular thing even if it is a borderline case isnt one Im on board with at all.

Or he could be sent on a site clearance of a Gypsy site, I'd help. With a flamethrower.

This is what happens when the pant-wetting PC lot get hold of something like this and find themselves with too much time on their hands, allowing them to get offended on someone else's behalf.

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