Blues vs Dragons Match Thread

[GavinDragon]

First topic message reminder :

Blues: 15 Rhys Patchell, 14 Dan Fish, 13 Garyn Smith, 12 Rey Lee-Lo, 11 Tom James, 10 Gareth Anscombe, 9 Lloyd Williams; 1 Gethin Jenkins (c), 2 Kristian Dacey, 3 Taufa'ao Filise, 4 Jarrad Hoeata, 5 James Down, 6 Ellis Jenkins, 7 Sam Warburton, 8 Josh Turnbull

Replacements: 16 Matthew Rees, 17 Brad Thyer, 18 Dillon Lewis, 19 Manoa Vosawai, 20 Josh Navidi, 21 Tomos Williams, 22 Harri Millard, 23 Aled Summerhill

Dragons: C Meyer, A Hughes, T Morgan, A Warren, H Amos, D Jones, S Pretorius, P Price, E Dee, B Harris, R Landman, N Crosswell, L Evans (captain), N Cudd, T Faletau. Replacements: R Buckley, B Stankovich, L Fairbrother, M Screech, E Jackson, C Davies, A O'Brien, GR Jones.

Although buoyed by our victory over Gloucester, I still think we will struggle in this match. The Blues have been playing some sublime attacking rugby at home and on that artificial surface, despite Kingsley pointing out that we train on one all week, I don't think we are fit enough to cope with that intensity.

For the Dragons, I don't think we will see too many changes from the side that beat Gloucester. So hopefully no injuries. It would have been nice if Ollie Griffiths was fit as I would have liked to seen the battle between him and Ellis Jenkins whom, along with James Davies, will in my opinion all be competing for the Welsh 7 jersey in a few years. Jack Dixon and James Thomas continued their comebacks with Bedwas in their defeat to Llandovery last night.

I also hope you the Blues involve Hobbs and Mitchell so we can see them in action before they move east to Rodney Parade in the summer.

I think it will be an entertaining game with a lot of tries scored, and with the Blues coming out on top and keeping their hopes of a top 6 finish alive.

[PhilBB]

And why is it bonkers to suggest that a champsionship side are as physically challenging as a pro 12 pack? Just because a team play at a supposed higher level does not automatically make them a more physical team. If physicality equated to quality, SA would win the WC every fours years.

Writing off something as 'an opinion' is a really bizarre thing to do. I think it is definitely a generational thing. You're of the generation that went through a school system whereby nobody could fail, somehow. Wish hard enough and you can get it. Yes, you're 'entitled to your opinion' etc.

Really weird.

Anyway, a Championship side plays at a slower pace, are not as fit and therefore not as physical. Physicality can't be measured in the first ten minutes before the players get tired and slow down.

[GavinDragon]

And why is it bonkers to suggest that a champsionship side are as physically challenging as a pro 12 pack? Just because a team play at a supposed higher level does not automatically make them a more physical team. If physicality equated to quality, SA would win the WC every fours years.

Writing off something as 'an opinion' is a really bizarre thing to do. I think it is definitely a generational thing. You're of the generation that went through a school system whereby nobody could fail, somehow. Wish hard enough and you can get it. Yes, you're 'entitled to your opinion' etc.

Really weird.

Anyway, a Championship side plays at a slower pace, are not as fit and therefore not as physical. Physicality can't be measured in the first ten minutes before the players get tired and slow down.

Quite so, but a player's pace is not being tested in a scrum, it is size and technique and as I said, Doncaster were a large unit which imposed their physicality on Brown at the scrum. The point about pace and is more applicable when assessing Keddie's performance.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Let's see if I've got this right: not rating Ellis Jenkins is 'one hell of an admission' and apparently indicative of someone not comprehending the game of rugby, but declaring as a matter of fact that Ollie Griffiths will be well behind Warburton, Tipuric, Jenkins and Davies is okay?

[mikey_dragon]

If Cudd is too small for international rugby, then surely Davies (who is smaller) is also too small? Now there's a player that's overhyped (like Tipuric), yet when there's actually a good dragons player he's crap and overrated.

I rate Navidi higher than Jenkins and Tipuric, wondering why he doesn't ever get a look-in with Wales.

[Stone Motif]

I think that we do have some fantastic young talent who, due to the fact we have no money, a crap DOR and no hope, will continue to get a lot of game time.

The plan is to keep hold of these players, but how long can we seriously hope to unless we start competing at the right end of the table?

I think that the NGD have two fantastic young talents, potentially three with Dixon. It's just Morgan and Amos.

The others that get hyped up are either unable to shift old timers (Dee) or kids who haven't played adult pro rugby (the tight head and Keedie).

Jesus Christ. Now who's trolling?

You can't claim Lynn the Quin is a clown an then state certain players are unable to displace others.

[Cardiff Dave]

But still?

Can't see you terrifying anyone in RCC1 even if you do make it. Unless blistering x-factor runner Matthew Morgan will make all the difference like.

The implosion at NGD has been equally obvious.

Cardiff have a long way to go before they terrify anybody other than their own followers.

Lower tier-tastic.

[RiscaGame]

I think that we do have some fantastic young talent who, due to the fact we have no money, a crap DOR and no hope, will continue to get a lot of game time.

The plan is to keep hold of these players, but how long can we seriously hope to unless we start competing at the right end of the table?

I think that the NGD have two fantastic young talents, potentially three with Dixon. It's just Morgan and Amos.

The others that get hyped up are either unable to shift old timers (Dee) or kids who haven't played adult pro rugby (the tight head and Keedie).

Jesus Christ. Now who's trolling?

You can't claim Lynn the Quin is a clown an then state certain players are unable to displace others.

I consider the Drags talents to be Dee, Griffiths, Amos, Morgan, Hewitt

Not seen enough of Dixon to call him worthy of next step. Ollie Griffiths is maybe injured a bit too, but then if it's good for "Warby", then why not?

I know you didn't include Amos and Morgan for obvious reasons, but I am just as a point of where the team is. I do like Cory Hill, but I think he gets messed around trying to play him, Screech and Landman in two positions. That said, Lyp should've started Dee more, particularly when they were talking about caps. This Welsh captain thing was a bit guff and if they had to do it, they should've gone where they have now considering Lewis is a Lyn fave too (though I'm still convinced he has been told he was there too long)

[mikey_dragon]

Huge blunder from Amos, blowing that 2/3 on 1.

[GavinDragon]

Yes. But then he did create the whole opportunity by winning the ball in the air

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah he did well with that, but it was what looked like a guaranteed try. Pretorious did something similar after his break off of the lineout, it looked like Warren on his shoulder was clear. It's either silly or arrogant play and at the end of match we'll be rueing missed opportunities.

[mikey_dragon]

How has Fitz decided that's Blues ball? That yellow was a terrible call as well.

[TJ]

How has Fitz decided that's Blues ball? That yellow was a terrible call as well.

It was a maul and did not reach the line.  Yellow was harshish as he did get near to catch it but its a clear deliberate knock on so always going to risk it.

Fitzgibon is living up to his reputation tho - some bizzare decisions and allowing all sorts of nonsense at the breakdown. contrast to Mitrea who was really strict at the breakdown

[bedfordwelsh]

The refs performance aside our basic skill set is so poor its unreal.

Amos produced that great bit of skill then ignores the most obvious 2 on 1 ever seen. While we continue to do that then well as usual still good job the Eyeties are in the league.

[Guest]

Well done Blues

[RiscaGame]

Back to business in our bread and butter. The board should've got the season ticket renewals out, while everyone was on a high last weekend.

[Cardiff Dave]

The refs performance aside our basic skill set is so poor its unreal.

Amos produced that great bit of skill then ignores the most obvious 2 on 1 ever seen.  While we continue to do that then well as usual still good job the Eyeties are in the league.

Would've been a 2 on zero if he'd passed. Obviously had white line fever and believed he could break through another tackle again with ease.
All happened smack bang in front of the royal box too.

[Cardiff Dave]

What's with this trend of interviewing a player at half time?

[Guest]

What's with this trend of interviewing a player at half time?

Phil Steele needs to get a new one liner too - "Have a good orange" has had its day now.

[bedfordwelsh]

What's with this trend of interviewing a player at half time?

I feckin hate it

[Cardiff Dave]

What's with this trend of interviewing a player at half time?

I feckin hate it

Winds me up, big time. Let 'em get off the park FFS!

[Cardiff Dave]

What's with this trend of interviewing a player at half time?

Phil Steele needs to get a new one liner too - "Have a good orange" has had its day now.

So has "flash and dash".
What is the point of having Phil Steele in attendance anyway and that woman today, whatever her name was?

[Guest]

What's with this trend of interviewing a player at half time?

Phil Steele needs to get a new one liner too - "Have a good orange" has had its day now.

So has "flash and dash".
What is the point of having Phil Steele in attendance anyway and that woman today, whatever her name was?

Sorry didn't see the game, just assumed it was Phil from previous experience.

I was too busy huffing and puffing round the Tour de Gwent. In bits now.

[Cardiff Dave]

What's with this trend of interviewing a player at half time?

Phil Steele needs to get a new one liner too - "Have a good orange" has had its day now.

So has "flash and dash".
What is the point of having Phil Steele in attendance anyway and that woman today, whatever her name was?

Sorry didn't see the game, just assumed it was Phil from previous experience.

I was too busy huffing and puffing round the Tour de Gwent. In bits now.

I think Phil has the gig on the gravy train channel. Talk Sport I call it nowadays. Today was S4C wibble.

[mikey_dragon]

Blues play some good rugby these days, but today I feel they left a lot of points out there. I feel the same about us, both teams are lacking precision and aren't clinical enough in the areas of the field it matters most. That doesn't bode well for the upcoming games, for both teams btw.

[GavinDragon]

Better and more clinical team won on the day. But if Fitzgibbon refs another game in the woe12 again it will be too soon. 10 of the Blues points came directly from an incorrect decision from him. Their try in the first half came from a lineout from the incorrect penalising of Sarel for knocking the ball down deliberately (when you can see him move his whole body into the gap, lift the ball up and be not too far away from diving to catch it). From the subsequent line out Anscombe chips the ball into where Sarel would usually be standing, but he isn't there because he also got a yellow card.

3 points in second half - fitzgibbon gets in way of Blues and gives a free kick. In the resulting scrum Dragons go forward until Filise stands up in the scrum, yet he awards the Blues the penalty.

Blues were penalised only twice in the first 70 minutes.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The Blues were the better side and probably would have won in any case, but there'd have been less in it if the Blues hadn't been given carte blanche at the breakdown. If the scores had been closer with 5 / 10 minutes to go, you never know what might have happened. The better side doesn't always win.

The Blues are a good side to watch these days.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Blues were penalised only twice in the first 70 minutes.

I heard that. What a joke.

[GavinDragon]

The Blues were the better side and probably would have won in any case, but there'd have been less in it if the Blues hadn't been given carte blanche at the breakdown. If the scores had been closer with 5 / 10 minutes to go, you never know what might have happened. The better side doesn't always win.

The Blues are a good side to watch these days.

Yep don't disagree with any of that. It was good to watch some of our backs ball in hand. Even if we still lack that ruthless edge/clinical ability to finish off chances e.g Amos 2 man overlap wasted. I was far more positive watching them yesterday than I had been in the league for some time.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Our handling let us down quite a few times, but (and this might sound a bit clutching-at-straws) at least we were creating chances to blow!

[Guest]

If Cudd is too small for international rugby, then surely Davies (who is smaller) is also too small? Now there's a player that's overhyped (like Tipuric), yet when there's actually a good dragons player he's crap and overrated.

According to their respective regions' websites, even allowing for some discrepancy in accuracy:

James Davies: 187cm, 93kg
Nic Cudd: 180cm, 96kg

As if your eyes weren't evidence enough.

I rate Navidi higher than Tipuric

If anyone was of any doubt that you don't know much about rugby, they do now.

You have a chip on your shoulder mikey. Take a few days off this board once in a while.

[mikey_dragon]

Player stats are often exaggerated. Cubby looks around 5'10/11 - as does Cudd. Those stats you posted even have Cudd as 3kg heavier, hence bigger - so what point were you trying to make?

That's my opinion of both players. I've rarely seen a good game from Tips at international level, and yet I read cries for him to start on a regular basis. My thoughts on Navidi come from years of watching his consistently excellent performances, even when Blues were at their worst.

So because my opinion is different to yours, and I don't believe the West Wales hype around a Scarlets player I have a chip on my shoulder? Anyone care to add to this?
You're a strange one. I suggest you get over me, you've got a knack for sniffing around my posts and trying (and failing) to prove me wrong.

[Guest]

Player stats are often exaggerated. Cubby looks around 5'10/11 - as does Cudd. Those stats you posted even have Cudd as 3kg heavier, hence bigger - so what point were you trying to make?

Wait, so the stat that states James Davies is bigger is apparently wrong, whereas the stat the shows Cudd is marginally heavier is necessarily correct. Is that what you're suggesting, that the statistic that supports what you're saying is correct, whereas then one that contradicts it is probably wrong? Can you not see how blinkered that is? Furthermore, what's more likely to fluctuate, height or weight?  

That's my opinion of both players. I've rarely seen a good game from Tips at international level, and yet I read cries for him to start on a regular basis. My thoughts on Navidi come from years of watching his consistently excellent performances, even when Blues were at their worst.

They're not even competing for the same position. However, have you really come to that solid assessment based on Navidi's performances for the Blues in the Pro12, against Tipuric's performances- primarily off the bench, or in a weaker team- for Wales against international Test sides? Really, is that what you're suggesting? You're completely ignoring Tipuric's pedigree for the Ospreys, which would be the obvious comparison, instead using his Wales (& Lions) performances against an uncapped player's form in club rugby? This is why I suggest you know nothing about rugby; either that, or you just don't think things through very well.

So because my opinion is different to yours, and I don't believe the West Wales hype around a Scarlets player I have a chip on my shoulder? Anyone care to add to this?
You're a strange one. I suggest you get over me, you've got a knack for sniffing around my posts and trying (and failing) to prove me wrong.

It's boring. You're boring. You're coming on the Scarlets threads looking to wind people up in the aftermath of their loss, chippy little comments:

Christ you did really well there Scarlets, and not for the first time....

You're like the kid who hides behind the bully, gloating in the misfortune of by others. The problem is, where some WUMs and antagonists have a bit of wit about them, you're just seriously dull, to the point where you genuinely ruin the occasions I come on these boards because you drag everyone else down. As for opinions, I doubt you even believe in them, you're completely contrarian. One day you'll be criticising Gareth Davies when talking to Scarlets fans, the next you'll be bigging him up when on a thread with English posters. You're just looking for an online, verbal scuffle with anyone; that's why I suggest you take some time out. Enjoy the other things in life. Go watch rugby with people who you get on with. You might enjoy it, instead of coming across as bitter as you do at the moment.

It's also really boring talking about 'hype' as if you have to redress the balance, and fight the cause for the plucky, perennially undervalued Dragons players. You'll never get anywhere trying to 'argue' over how valued a player should be in the public consciousness. Yes, Tipuric gets a lot of media and fan attention, because he's a brilliant footballing openside. Perhaps there's an element that many of the less aware fans tend to unduly see him as some sort of saviour to the Welsh team's fortunes when things aren't going well. However, in what way is the rational response to that to conflate public opinion of a player with their performances, and to argue against the latter when, in fact, you're almost always trying to diminish the former? If you're only here to look for people to back up your already formed opinions on rugby, why are you here? That's my question. Take some time out once in a while and you might start enjoying this place a bit more, stop investing so much into it.

[mikey_dragon]

Well right now all I can say is wtf kind of shoite did I just read? . I'll answer your questions later tonight when I arrive home.

During this time I suggest you have a word with yourself and stop being so obsessed and get over the fact not everyone agrees with you (this problem you had on the old 606, except it was worse). Reviewing your posting style would be a good start, maybe look at that of SS - contrasting to mine yet I can always have a good discussion with him. Doing this might also help you refrain from getting angry and writing cretinous, unorthodox essays aimed at offending the opposing poster - those fingers are going to ache if you don't stop beating the keyboard over my comments, okay big boy?

Keep twiddling your thumbs until later - until then you can think you've won the Internet on this, erm, discussion forum.

[Coleman]

This forum is really circling the drain theae days. :/

[mikey_dragon]

This forum is really circling the drain theae days. :/

What do you expect when someone loses their mind over a different opinion and starts sidetracking?

[RiscaGame]

Our handling let us down quite a few times, but (and this might sound a bit clutching-at-straws) at least we were creating chances to blow!

I am fairly positive by that. I think we need some time to get back into a running mindset a bit (if Lyp has gone). If we are having a go, I would be happy. If we are aimlessly punting the ball inviting pressure, I won't be.

I haven't been able to watch the game, but I've seen mixed reviews on certain players that maybe we'd rely on to step up and also, I do believe we had one eye on Saturday (not that it'll do us much good).

[RiscaGame]

Oh yeah and GR Jones coming on again mun. Was it him that kicked the ball dead? I see no reason why he kicked anyway.

[mikey_dragon]

Wait, so the stat that states James Davies is bigger is apparently wrong, whereas the stat the shows Cudd is marginally heavier is necessarily correct. Is that what you're suggesting, that the statistic that supports what you're saying is correct, whereas then one that contradicts it is probably wrong? Can you not see how blinkered that is? Furthermore, what's more likely to fluctuate, height or weight?  

In a word no. Don't side track here, it was YOU that brought the stats into it. I just questioned their accuracy. I was getting at why YOU would use a set of stats that proved me to be correct, when you clearly disagree with me on Cubby? Strange post and you expanding onto irrelevant things just proves how desperate you are.

They're not even competing for the same position. However, have you really come to that solid assessment based on Navidi's performances for the Blues in the Pro12, against Tipuric's performances- primarily off the bench, or in a weaker team- for Wales against international Test sides? Really, is that what you're suggesting? You're completely ignoring Tipuric's pedigree for the Ospreys, which would be the obvious comparison, instead using his Wales (& Lions) performances against an uncapped player's form in club rugby? This is why I suggest you know nothing about rugby; either that, or you just don't think things through very well.

How do you decide that? Navidi is an open-side who can cover the back-row. Pretty well too from what I've seen. He made is international debut at open-side too before you try to expand onto something else. I personally would only consider playing him at open-side at international level. He's a proper flanker that does the hard graft and gets stuck in at the contact area. A footballing open-side is useless to Wales IMO. I've long been of the view that Tipuric has been living off the reputation of a single match in 2013 and hasn't done anything that great on a consistent basis ever since. He's had a lot of opportunities both starting and from the bench. I also don't see how coming off the bench can work against him, a good player can make a positive impact - Tipuric doesn't often do that. His form for Ospreys is usually very good, except when his pack is on the back-foot he tends to be anonymous. That's another edge that Navidi has over him, as he was often the shining light in a very poor pack. If a player has stagnated then somebody else playing consistently well should be given an opportunity (Navidi) - if we didn't then Martyn Williams would still be a Wales starter. I didn't really notice him on the Lions tour as well seeing as you mentioned it. So no I have thought it out over a long time, it's my opinion based on years of viewing. As soon as you get that into your strange head then you'll probably relax and move on.

My comments on Davies and Dragons players were in reply to two posters btw, so I suggest you read what people are replying to before jumping to silly conclusions. I know you like to pee all over the fact that some people rate Cudd, but it's their opinion and what you think of that doesn't bother them. That's also on record for people to see the type of pathetic lowlife you are btw, so keep up the good work.

So because my opinion is different to yours, and I don't believe the West Wales hype around a Scarlets player I have a chip on my shoulder? Anyone care to add to this?
You're a strange one. I suggest you get over me, you've got a knack for sniffing around my posts and trying (and failing) to prove me wrong.

It's boring. You're boring. You're coming on the Scarlets threads looking to wind people up in the aftermath of their loss, chippy little comments:

Christ you did really well there Scarlets, and not for the first time....

:doh:Well if that's how you feel then scroll past and don't always write essays in reply to what I've said? You do it every time you log on. If any of the sensible adults around here are bored by comments then I assume they ignore it, but then again you're not a sensible adult - far from it! Very strange things to say.
That was my opinion on the Scarlets performance, I wasn't the only one who said it, so again why are you obsessing over what I've said? 3 losses from 4 against Glasgow, 2 of which being hammerings, is extremely poor for a team with that many internationals and coached by a good coach. I haven't thought Scarlets have been that great all season, and I'm on record saying that so I haven't changed my mind. The less said about your efforts in Europe this year the better...

As for your last bit - I thought it was a load of childish bull, but it's there for all to see so people may judge you upon what you've written. If you had left it at this then it would have been a sensible comment:
"Yes, Tipuric gets a lot of media and fan attention, because he's a brilliant footballing openside. Perhaps there's an element that many of the less aware fans tend to unduly see him as some sort of saviour to the Welsh team's fortunes when things aren't going well."
Also you don't really know me so don't try and guess what I do in life and make other ridiculous assumptions. It's very hypocritical for you to suggest I take some time off here when you get really angry over someone not rating your scarlet f**k boys that highly - and when you disagree with someone they're not a WUM, they just disagree with you.
Gareth Davies was a bad example to use there, I've rated him very highly since he was lumped behind Tavis Knoyle for some strange reason - your team still seems to rate poor 9s given how highly Aled Davies is thought of in Scarlet country. So that's another sh*t comment from you.
I'm not here to please people, as they may not like what I say and I don't care about that. I prioritise my own opinion and if people don't agree then fair, I won't go back on mine and I certainly won't try to keep forcing mine on them. That's a problem you harbour though, and you're reading too much into what other people think, you've just insinuated you stay off here because of me - I happen to find that HILARIOUS    . There's a foe button available on V2, you should utilise it - you won't see my comments and I won't have to read your pointless essays in response to them.

[ScarletSpiderman]

This forum is really circling the drain theae days. :/

So is the spalling of the posters

[PhilBB]

What an odd game. A Cardiff team in second gear did just enough to put away an NGD team struggling to get out of first. Both teams blew easy chances.

The pace of the game was missing, the accuracy wasn't there and there was little spark to what should have been a derby.

If I were Morgan and Amos then I'd be doing my best to get out of the NGD as soon as possible. Amos is a wonderful player with the ball, but he has no confidence in his colleagues, and he's a woeful player without it. He is lazy in defence.

Morgan has some talent and could make a real name for himself, but not getting fed the kind of drivel he does in that team. His problem is that the other three have good 13s already but I'd encourage him to go to Llanelli to learn from Jon Davies.

Dee? I still don't understand the hype, sorry.

As for Cardiff, they were poor and a bit 'meh'. Just enough. Winning is just enough for them now.

[Blueschief]

It wasn't a great game. I couldn't help feeling flat after that despite the win.Think we will rue that missed opportunity for a bonus point. Wonder if having a week off has stifled our momentum?

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