Moffet sticking his boot in again

Has anybody read this ? Moffet, the man who created the regions is sticking his boot in with this one, he reckons that there should only be three Welsh regions, didn't he want five the other month when he reckoned he was the man to sort things out ?

Take a read, I will be honest though, on some of his points it's hard to argue, but feck me, he does like the sound of his own voice:-

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/features/columnists/peter-jackson/25602/peter-jackson-column-buy-dragons-no-way-on-gods-earth-says-david-moffett/

Do you agree with him ?

Moffett wasn't saying any of this when he was putting the boot into the WRU, and he needed the support of the Regions fans.

Where would the extra money come from if the WRU were to drop the Dragons?

Munchkin wrote:Moffett wasn't saying any of this when he was putting the boot into the WRU, and he needed the support of the Regions fans.

Yes you are right, he was even promoting starting a 5th region when he was sticking the boot into the WRU.

Moffett is a classic example of a man whose fine,if misguided,words butter no parsnips.Put another way he came,he meddled and he bu**ered off.Hope it stays that way.

Oh God, the Sequel is finally OUT!!!!!!!!!!!

OMG, I'm so excited.

My favourite bad guy in the movies returns in this instalment. Kool!!

He is a doll of a man.  The world needs colourful characters like him.

Even as he defends himself from allegations about his old job, he keeps applying for any other new jobs that might be out there.  So he's using the interrogation to promote Moffet.  He never stops.  He can't.  He's just a publicity machine full of gas:

“Yes, I was the architect [of regionalism] but I have a track record of putting something in place and changing it if it doesn’t work.  I did that during my time as chief executive of the New Zealand Rugby Union."

Touche!

“My motto is that the soft option is always the wrong option. The guy who told me that, over lunch when I was running the NRL (National Rugby League) in Australia, was Kerry Packer."

Another lunge with the sword!

“Since I put the regional teams in place Wales have won three Grand Slams and they are no longer the laughing stock of world rugby."

Three strikes! Move over Gats!


By the end of the interview he had the cynical interviewer pleading with him to return to Welsh rugby and save the day one more time!

He's a wonder, is Moffet.

Look he makes a couple of valid points. The regions have underperformed in europe. Crowds are no where near what they could or should be. And reducing the number of teams would, logically, mean more money from the RSA to go around.

Now the bone of contention is what has caused this. Is it, as some would argue, because Roger Lewis starved the regions of £££ in order to pay off the MS debt quicker, therefore making the regions less competitive, less successful, resulting in less fans? Or is it the regions fault for not doing more to attract fans in the first place?

The hard fact is that you attract by winning. And in that, Moffet is right. But he knows he's right because common sense tells everyone this.

Look how crowds are becoming less dense at Leinster and Munster. Winning matters. So yes, as I always say... it's not the crowds that are needed before the wins, but the wins that are needed before the crowds.

SecretFly wrote:The hard fact is that you attract by winning.  And in that, Moffet is right.  But he knows he's right because common sense tells everyone this.

Look how crowds are becoming less dense at Leinster and Munster.  Winning matters.  So yes, as I always say... it's not the crowds that are needed before the wins, but the wins that are needed before the crowds.  

And invariably you need good players to get wins and there are two ways to get good players - import them or develop them yourself. And that is there the problem lies. A region develops good players, pays them and invests in them - only for the national side to keep them out of their region's squad for 13 or 14 weeks of the year (barring injury). So unless you have money to fill that gap, you are on a hiding to nothing.

The sooner we move to a global season with domestic rugby and international rugby played en bloc, the better for the domestic game in Wales and the pro12 overall.

"Yeah Dave, but what about..."
"Yeah Dave, but what about..."
"Yeah Dave, but what about..."
"Yeah Dave, but what about..."

SecretFly wrote:he keeps applying for any other new jobs that might be out there.

Which jobs?

GavinDragon wrote:Look he makes a couple of valid points. The regions have underperformed in europe. Crowds are no where near what they could or should be. And reducing the number of teams would, logically, mean more money from the RSA to go around.

Now the bone of contention is what has caused this. Is it, as some would argue, because Roger Lewis starved the regions of £££ in order to pay off the MS debt quicker, therefore making the regions less competitive, less successful, resulting in less fans? Or is it the regions fault for not doing more to attract fans in the first place?

PRW have never underperformed in Europe when you consider any applicable salary spend, plus crowds in Wales per population are stronger than elsewhere in the PrO'12. Those two 'valid points' are anything but. They are straw man expectational arguments that create a false target to criticise PRW for not hitting.

What we had in Wales until 2010 was a growing pro sport that could compete. And then along came Lewis.

And thank God for Moffett's work in getting rid of him.

PhilBB wrote:What we had in Wales until 2010 was a growing pro sport that could compete. And then along came Lewis.

And thank God for Moffett's work in getting rid of him.

That's what irks me about what Moffet's said. He knows full well how hamstrung the pro teams were by the WRU under Roger Lewis.

To be fair the infrastructure put in place isn't good enough but it's ironic that the architect is criticising his own creation.

I've always been like a broken record. The Welsh regions let the horse bolt by letting the likes of Charteris,North,Halfpenny,Phillips leave Wales for pastures new. Wales should have protected their assets better.

Dai Young is at Wasps now and isn't doing a bad job, arguably Wales' best coach is in England. Would he go back to Wales? Probably only if you get your house in order.

Of course it seems like I am pointing the finger but everyone has their problems.

I do make he makes some fair points. Ultimately it comes down to needing better management and a stronger infrastructure.

A self serving publicist whose words no longer count for anything that actually matters.
Bit like Tony Blair really.

Dai will come back to Wales when he is offered the role of national coach.

I'm worried they're grooming Howley to take over.

beshocked wrote:To be fair the infrastructure put in place isn't good enough but it's ironic that the architect is criticising his own creation.

I've always been like a broken record. The Welsh regions let the horse bolt by letting the likes of Charteris,North,Halfpenny,Phillips leave Wales for pastures new. Wales should have protected their assets better.

Dai Young is at Wasps now and isn't doing a bad job, arguably Wales' best coach is in England. Would he go back to Wales? Probably only if you get your house in order.

Of course it seems like I am pointing the finger but everyone has their problems.

I do make he makes some fair points. Ultimately it comes down to needing better management and a stronger infrastructure.

How very wishy washy. Do you have anything specific in mind?

Hiring some better coaches for the regions. Don't necessarily need to be Welsh, neither Gatland or Edwards are and that's worked for the national side.

Bring back all the Welsh players that have gone abroad. Should aim to bring back the likes of Davies,North even Priestland.

Just two things you could do.

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:he keeps applying for any other new jobs that might be out there.

Which jobs?

I don't know...I don't keep an eye on Classifieds.  But Moffet is always ready for anything.  He even keeps his Canary Cage-Cleaning certificate ironed just in case.

beshocked wrote:Hiring some better coaches for the regions. Don't necessarily need to be Welsh, neither Gatland or Edwards are and that's worked for the national side.

Bring back all the Welsh players that have gone abroad. Should aim to bring back the likes of Davies,North even Priestland.

Just two things you could do.

We had a bloke at the WRU called Roger Lewis. His contract for Welsh rugby (Called the Participation Agreement) instructed that Level 5 WRU coaches were to coach the Pro Teams.

That went well, didn't it? Thankfully it is now no longer the case.

He also set up a contract that starved the pro game of money by favouring paying Barclays off early. Hence there's still not enough money to bring back those players.

SecretFly wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:he keeps applying for any other new jobs that might be out there.

Which jobs?

I don't know...I don't keep an eye on Classifieds.  But Moffet is always ready for anything.  He even keeps his Canary Cage-Cleaning certificate ironed just in case.

Mate, he's enjoying his retirement between Queensland, England and NZ. He's not looking for anything.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm worried they're grooming Howley to take over.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

exile jack wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm worried they're grooming Howley to take over.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Precisely!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm worried they're grooming Howley to take over.

I've said this for a long time and its one occasion that I will never be happier to be proved wrong.

If Gatland gets the Lions job next year then who they put in charge of Wales will be a good indicator as they did say that they might appoint someone outside the current Welsh set up.

Did they? That's interesting, but I doubt any club could afford to have their head coach away for a few months.

I think it would be better to have no regions. IMO, it would be better to go back to clubs.

Someone get that guy outta here.

Dai Young for next Welsh coach ?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

exile jack wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm worried they're grooming Howley to take over.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Precisely!

The same Howley, that put England to the sword (big time) to win a back to back 6 Nations title in 2013..

Come on guys, give him some credit....

munkian wrote:Dai Young for next Welsh coach ?

WHY!!!!

What international experience has he got.. Give Dai the job, and Wales will be put back years.. We have to move forward, not recall the old guard.

No9 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

exile jack wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm worried they're grooming Howley to take over.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Precisely!

The same Howley, that put England to the sword (big time) to win a back to back 6 Nations title in 2013..

Come on guys, give him some credit....

Give Howley some credit! Hmmmmmm.Why? I agree he isn't solely responsible for the Welsh style of play or the treatment of certain Welsh players but ask yourself these questions.Can you see Howley ever being the Head Coach of NZ,Australia,SA,England,Ireland or France? How many international,Super Rugby,Aviva,Top14,Pro12 coaches would you rate above Howley? I'd answer no blydi way to the first question and quite a lot to the second question.

If Wales come back from NZ with one or more international wins to their name i'll happily admit on here i'm wrong about 'Box-kick Bob'.

No9 wrote:

munkian wrote:Dai Young for next Welsh coach ?

WHY!!!!

What international experience has he got.. Give Dai the job, and Wales will be put back years.. We have to move forward, not recall the old guard.

Bit drastic.. he's done well with Wasps and they have an attractive style of play, he would hardly 'put us back years' and how is it recalling the old guard ?

I honestly believe that championship was despite Howley, not because of him. Most of what we produced before that England game was garbage.

RiscaGame wrote:I honestly believe that championship was despite Howley, not because of him. Most of what we produced before that England game was garbage.

It was more down to the stadium atmosphere than Howley and the England team thinking they'd stroll it after scraping past Italy

Howley is way out of his depth and if he does take over after Gatland then will be put back decades let alone just years.

Now whenever people slate Howley someone will and has done always bring up the 'but we won the 6 Nations with him.

As Risca has pointed out and I agree with him, we won that Championship despite him not because of him.

Prior to the England game Ireland stuffed us despite the scoreline
We struggled against France even given how poor they are
We were unconvincing against Italy & Sccotland
For 60 minutes of the England it could have gone anyway

So using that Championship to hang your hat on isn't much. Is Dai Young the next Welsh coach well who knows but at the moment he's going about his pretty well and not that we have to but if we wanted the next coach to be Welsh then he's at the head of albeit a very short queue.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Using that Championship to hang your hat on isn't much.

Especially as he was only holding the fort, had Gatland on the other end of the phone and did nothing Gatland wouldn't have done himself. Do we really want a national head coach who has never truly been head coach anywhere, ever?

Nope, well I don't anyway. Next years Lions series will be good indication of how he figures as they did mention that they might look outside the current set up if Gatland got Lions job.

No9 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

exile jack wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm worried they're grooming Howley to take over.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Precisely!

The same Howley, that put England to the sword (big time) to win a back to back 6 Nations title in 2013..

Come on guys, give him some credit....

Didn't take long for Howley's biggest fanboy to come out of the woodwork...

munkian wrote:

No9 wrote:

munkian wrote:Dai Young for next Welsh coach ?

WHY!!!!

What international experience has he got.. Give Dai the job, and Wales will be put back years.. We have to move forward, not recall the old guard.

Bit drastic.. he's done well with Wasps and they have an attractive style of play, he would hardly 'put us back years' and how is it recalling the old guard ?

To answer the why question, Dai Young has silverware to his name. Towards the end of his tenure when Welsh club rugby crawled out of the dark ages, Blues had a pretty good win ratio. I think it's only a matter of time until he gets more silverware with that Wasps team - so for me he would be a good candidate. And if we're only hiring guys who have some international experience then how the hell are we ever going to get a new coach?

I don't know how anyone who has seen Wasps play this season can say 'give Dai the job, and Wales will be put back years'. They're a fantastic, well-rounded side and they win more games than they lose. I would love to see our forwards and backs combine and offload the way Wasps do.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't know how anyone who has seen Wasps play this season can say 'give Dai the job, and Wales will be put back years'. They're a fantastic, well-rounded side and they win more games than they lose. I would love to see our forwards and backs combine and offload the way Wasps do.

Well obviously they haven't seen Wasps play this season because they don't watch much rugby... It's as bad as Dowlais telling everyone he knows more about rugby because he's able to attend more live games at the regions.

mikey I am getting fed up of you using my name as an euphemism, I saw it all over the Dragons thread, when you were using it to insult people, and now I am seeing it here. 

Please do me a favour and stop it. You are getting very boring now.

mikey_dragon wrote:

No9 wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

exile jack wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm worried they're grooming Howley to take over.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!

Precisely!

The same Howley, that put England to the sword (big time) to win a back to back 6 Nations title in 2013..

Come on guys, give him some credit....

Didn't take long for Howley's biggest fanboy to come out of the woodwork...

dikey .... "Howley's biggest fanboy", how you get to that is beyond me... get back into your box you obnoxious little troll, your not worth communicating with...

as for the rest of the comments.. My opinion is that Rob Howley may not be Gatlands successor, but if he is then at least give him a chance before slating him. As for Dai, being a successful club coach will not mean you are successful on the international front, its a totally different job, where you have limited time to gel players who are coming from different clubs and different ethos. Having them day in day out, as in the club setup allows a coach to gel with the team and mould them. Dai has been successful at that, it doesn't mean he's right for the Welsh job. Remember that last coach everyone screamed should have the job at all costs... Well that put an end to Gareth Jenkins career didn't it.. Great club man, but the wheels fell off at international pace. My point is that Dai Young hasn't the international experience. As for my "old guard" statement, it was leaning to going back to a Welsh (as in Welshman) coach, rather than non Welsh. I have (in the past) been an advocate that we have to have a Welsh coach and not a foreigner. Well the past non welsh coaches we have had have proved me wrong. Go back to having a welsh man in charge (Current management team aside) and we will go back to the rivalry (west v east, north v south, Cardiff v Newport, etc..). I said current management team aside, as I think they have leaned to avoid those prejudice from the current set-up.

Anyway, that's my take on it, and not saying anymore on the subject...

No9 wrote:dikey .... "Howley's biggest fanboy", how you get to that is beyond me... get back into your box you obnoxious little troll, your not worth communicating with..

That's mikey for you.

No9 wrote:
What international experience has he got.. Give Dai the job, and Wales will be put back years.. We have to move forward, not recall the old guard.

He's got as much as Cotter and Schmidt had before taking over at Scotland and Ireland.

With your logic, Wales could only recruit as Head Coach somebody who has failed elsewhere.

No9 wrote:



The same Howley, that put England to the sword (big time) to win a back to back 6 Nations title in 2013..

Come on guys, give him some credit....

Don't fall for the spin that says Gatland wasn't involved.

Young has coached the Baa Baas a few times mind, not fully International agreed but another level up maybe.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't know how anyone who has seen Wasps play this season can say 'give Dai the job, and Wales will be put back years'. They're a fantastic, well-rounded side and they win more games than they lose. I would love to see our forwards and backs combine and offload the way Wasps do.

Imagine our back three being allowed to play like Wasps. Using North effectively like Wasps do Halai for a start. Would be fantastic.