Gennady Golovkin

I'm sure this has been discussed to death on here. However, I've been in absentia for some months now so please indulge me here.

As a fully paid-up member of the Golovkin fan club/hype train, it's certainly fair to say that I am a massive fan of his. I've been banging the drum for Golovkin amongst friends of mine who also enjoy Boxing since I first read an article about him knocking out Light-heavies in sparring back in 2011/2012.

However, there is a problem. It has been many years since he came on the scene and, to date, his best win is David Lemieux.. Now, to what extent this is the fault of any unwillingness on Golovkin's part to take on more challenging fights, or the unwillingness of potential opponents to take on Golovkin is debatable. I know where I sit on this one.

But, leaving that aside, Golovkin's career is now at a critical juncture. Supposedly, the winner of Canelo vs Khan will be mandated to fight him. But does anyone here seriously think that will happen? If Khan wins, and the WBC make GGG his mandatory, then I expect Khan to vacate the belt sharpish! If Canelo wins, as most are predicting, then does anybody here think that the WBC will force him to fight Golovkin at 160lbs? I doubt it. Alvarez has stated in the past that he will fight him at 155lbs. If Alvarez does win then I expect him to offer GGG the fight at 155 and I expect the WBC to sanction it. This catch-weight offer is something which Golovkin has said he would reject.

However, surely Golovkin can no longer maintain this position? Yes, it is appalling that the '160lb Champion' may be permitted to compel his mandatory to fight at 155lbs. And yes, it totally undermines the credibility of the WBC (something which I'm sure will cause great concern at the WBC...) But what are Golovkin's other options? Can he get Jacobs or BJS? Unlikely, in my opinion. And even if he could, it is Alzarez (or maybe Khan) who will be the lineal Champ.

As egregious as it might be, if Golovkin is offered a fight with Canelo or Khan at 155lbs then he should take it. He has no other options. He simply cannot continue fighting the likes of Dominic Wade, Willie Monroe Jr., etc.

The inside feeling i have read is that canelo will probably vacate after khan and ggg upgraded to full champion. Wba said they would order ggg vs jacobs if the canelo fight doesnt happen. Warren and saunders have claimed they are willing bit already turned down a couple of million offer.

I'm totally against GGG fighting at 155lbs bowing down to Canelo just keeps this bad precedent of higher selling profile fighters been able to dictate unfair advantages going. Fighting for the middleweight championship should be at 160lbs - Canelo p155ed and moaned when he had a shed a few pounds for Mayweather and here he is attempting to do the same thing. He does have to tread carefully though GGG as much as he seems avoided he can't be asking for catchweight fights himself if he decides to move up.

Cheers, Rodders

The precedent has already been set though, Rodders. Fighters with greater marketing potential, broader appeal, and higher PPV numbers can dictate terms. It's not correct, but it is how it is and has been for some time. And, whilst there may be some abstract nobility in GGG refusing to acquiesce to these demands, it won't change this status quo and it won't help him get the prize he so desires. Namely, the lineal Middleweight title.

Like I said, if he wants to stay at Middleweight, and the WBC sanction the Alvarez (or Khan) fight at 155lbs then he should take it because he has no other options. If Golovkin is offered a 155lbs unification fight with Alavarez, and he turns it down, what then would you have him do instead?

Catchweight; yes, I've seen that BJS has 'called out' Golovkin on Twitter. I'd not heard about the WBA's interest in a Jacobs / Golovkin unification, so thank you for bringing it up.

However, like with most stated intentions in boxing, I doubt anything will come of them. I'd treat both camps' claims to want the GGG fight with a very large pinch of salt.

I agree the precedent has been set Gentleman but someone has to stop it - Canelo's credibility will surely have to spiral if he continues to fight at middleweight and either campaigns at 155lbs or fights another fighter at 160 - its easy for me to say as I'm not cashing the cheque but I wouldn't allow Canelo to demand the 155lbs but I have a feeling he will as you alluded to not many options for him.

Cheers, Rodders

I started writing a highly intelligent and insightful response to this then got distracted by the Hillsborough Enquiry verdict (Justice for the 96) Anyway, dumbing down* my aborted post....I believe Canelo should be made to fight GGG and if Canelo wants to weight in at 155 then fine but GGG weighs in at 160 with the outside possibility of a 170 rehydration clause being imposed. Outside of that, if Canelo refuses he should be banned from fighting for any WBC belts for a period not less than 18 months.

* It isn't dumbed down, I just wanted people to think I might be clever.

I think GGG should stick to his guns and not fight Canelo at 155 and I don't think anybody should consider this GGG ducking. If he was genuinely comfortable at that weight why not just campaign at LMW?

I think were Khan to win he may well take the GGG fight, surely this would be the biggest fight out there for him and he says he wants the biggest fights. However if Canelo wins or the Jacobs fight can't be made then he should consider moving up to SMW.

As we all know BJS has already turned him down so whats changed re this tweet?

His management team ( though not lately to be fair) have mouthed off that he'll fight anyone from 154 to 175 but when fights with ward were mooted, the weight conditions came in. To be fair to GGG he doesn't get into the ducking arguments and mud slinging... He understands it's a business. I have no doubt he personally would fight anyone.

It sucks that Alvarez gets to choose the weight for his opponents, but if he thinks 155 is his best chance, and if golovkin is on record as saying he can make it, then in my view GGG should take the fight, win, and then give some credibility back to the sport/division.

I think that GGG should call Alvarez's bluff and offer a different catchweight of 158 (note that I REALLY hate catchweights and think that they have no place in a championship bout) with a rehydration clause to 170. I reckon Alvarez will reject it and the belt along with it.
I personally think that it's disgusting that the lineal champ at 160 (and his predecessor!) won't allow his opponents to weigh more than 1lb over the LMW limit just so he can bully them. If you're a 160lb champ then your opponents can fight at 160. Talk about protecting your record!

I always feel that was to get Floyd and to get his name out there and that was a couple of years ago, I doubt he could make 154 now nor do I think he he's big enough for 175. If he can't get Canelo, Khan or Jacobs at 160 then he must move up to SMW.

I'm sure it was to put his hat in with Floyd soho and it was a couple of years ago, but he was already in his 30's, so not like he was still filling out.

My point really was that he's not entirely free from criticism when the big talk/catchweight discussions come up. Ie there aren't many out there who can claim the moral high ground!

Canelo's trainer said the following:

"Why would we move up a weight division to fight Golovkin"

Tells you all you need to know

I don't care about the Canelo fight as long as he gives up the belt so GGG can be officially named the lineal champion

GGG becomes the mandatory, they can't force him to fight at 155

He is going to get all the belts, if he gets them through fighting or people vacating it doesn't matter

Once he gets all the belts he will move up and clean out Super Middleweight

He is a special fighter, I think he is the best in the world just needs the chance to prove it,

Gentleman01 wrote:The precedent has already been set though, Rodders. Fighters with greater marketing potential, broader appeal, and higher PPV numbers can dictate terms. It's not correct, but it is how it is and has been for some time. And, whilst there may be some abstract nobility in GGG refusing to acquiesce to these demands, it won't change this status quo and it won't help him get the prize he so desires. Namely, the lineal Middleweight title.

Like I said, if he wants to stay at Middleweight, and the WBC sanction the Alvarez (or Khan) fight at 155lbs then he should take it because he has no other options. If Golovkin is offered a 155lbs unification fight with Alavarez, and he turns it down, what then would you have him do instead?

Catchweight; yes, I've seen that BJS has 'called out' Golovkin on Twitter. I'd not heard about the WBA's interest in a Jacobs / Golovkin unification, so thank you for bringing it up.

However, like with most stated intentions in boxing, I doubt anything will come of them. I'd treat both camps' claims to want the GGG fight with a very large pinch of salt.

That catchweight is ridiculous its 1 pound above Light Middleweight

I think the whole situation is just a microcosm of the farcical state the sport is in currently. You have two middleweights, one of whom is the man who beat the man and the other of who is seemingly head and shoulders above everyone else in the division and a clear "best of the rest" and there is no mechanism to compel them to fight.

We dress it up in all sorts of BS to fit whatever agenda we have to as to do so fits a particular agenda we have in relation to our own favourites but we all know the governing bodies should be saying to Canelo "you're next fight needs to be GGG, and that fight needs to be at the middleweight limit, if it isn't we're stripping you of the titles"

If the governing bodies had any authority or balls that is exactly what would happen. The fact it doesn't is just a nonsense.

sohotnot wrote:I always feel that was to get Floyd and to get his name out there and that was a couple of years ago, I doubt he could make 154 now nor do I think he he's big enough for 175. If he can't get Canelo, Khan or Jacobs at 160 then he must move up to SMW.

Nope, why should he, he wants to get all the belts, regardless of what we think he isn't the lineal champion, he should move up only when he is the lineal champion

Don't think many would argue with that rowls. But seeing as we know that isn't going to happen, we're left debating the 'best' of the half arsed solutions that could potentially happen.

Probably just wistful thinking on my part but I would personally love to see GGG step up and challenge Kovalev. They just feel close enough in weight for it perhaps not to be an entirely unrealistic possibility. Two nuclear bombs colliding. If Canelo-Khan can happen...

Knowsit17 wrote:Probably just wistful thinking on my part but I would personally love to see GGG step up and challenge Kovalev. They just feel close enough in weight for it perhaps not to be an entirely unrealistic possibility. Two nuclear bombs colliding. If Canelo-Khan can happen...

Think the ship might sail with that one, GGG is going to move up to Super Middle but he isn't getting any younger, neither is Kovalev they may just miss each other

Rowley wrote:I think the whole situation is just a microcosm of the farcical state the sport is in currently. You have two middleweights, one of whom is the man who beat the man and the other of who is seemingly head and shoulders above everyone else in the division and a clear "best of the rest" and there is no mechanism to compel them to fight.

We dress it up in all sorts of BS to fit whatever agenda we have to as to do so fits a particular agenda we have in relation to our own favourites but we all know the governing bodies should be saying to Canelo "you're next fight needs to be GGG, and that fight needs to be at the middleweight limit, if it isn't we're stripping you of the titles"

If the governing bodies had any authority or balls that is exactly what would happen. The fact it doesn't is just a nonsense.

Incidentally, the WBC have actually now released a strongly worded statement intimating that they will strip their champion if, after the Khan vs Canelo fight, the winner refuses to take on GGG.

The question is, though; will the WBC also insist on the fight being made at a 160lb limit? Or will they allow Canelo (or Khan) to defend the belt at 155lbs and refuse to strip them if GGG then rejects this stipulation?

"If Canelo beats Khan and does not meet his obligation to to face Golovkin, then the WBC will have no choice but to strip Canelo of his belt, this is stipulated in the rules and this is how we will act" - WBC President, Mauricio Sulaiman

Middleweight is Caneloweight. Outside of Golovkin there aren't actually that many plausible fights which should see Canelo vastly out earning GGG. So the WBC would probably make roughly the same from both men. Or at least the losses from dropping Canelo wouldn't be earth shattering, ergo its probably easy to decide they can strip Alvarez. Or at least force his hand into making them a ton of money (Golovkin being able to draw 16000 people for a rando mm fight and get 1.3 million eyes watching him beat up some kid isn't too bad an alternative)

Middleweight is Caneloweight. Outside of Golovkin there aren't actually that many plausible fights which should see Canelo vastly out earning GGG. So the WBC would probably make roughly the same from both men. Or at least the losses from dropping Canelo wouldn't be earth shattering, ergo its probably easy to decide they can strip Alvarez. Or at least force his hand into making them a ton of money (Golovkin being able to draw 16000 people for a rando mm fight and get 1.3 million eyes watching him beat up some kid isn't too bad an alternative)

I think GGG has wasted enough time already. He needs bigger fights and bigger paydays before its too late. Stop beating up nobodies and step up to SMW would be my suggestion. Canelo has had one fight at MW and will be in no rush to fight GGG, right or wrong Canelo has had big fights, GGG needs to get over Canelo and start taking some risks.

Hopkins, DeGale, Ward, Dirrell have all shown interest. They would be PPV fights. If hes that special go and get them

Think it's pretty clear he fought on Saturday and absolutely no one cared because it was (another) over matched opponent

He had a PPV fight with Lemieux and by all accounts it bombed

I like GGG and think that he hasn't said anything wrong or made any excuses but he either boils down to fight canelo at 155 or makes the decision to go up to 168+ because right now, at this moment in time, there is nothing else for him at middleweight and while he may break records for number of fighters he can KO he won't make any money and would be a huge waste of talent

Baby faced assassin wrote:Think it's pretty clear he fought on Saturday and absolutely no one cared because it was (another) over matched opponent

He had a PPV fight with Lemieux and by all accounts it bombed

I like GGG and think that he hasn't said anything wrong or made any excuses but he either boils down to fight canelo at 155 or makes the decision to go up to 168+ because right now, at this moment in time, there is nothing else for him at middleweight and while he may break records for number of fighters he can KO he won't make any money and would be a huge waste of talent

Most watched HBO Fight of 2016 thus far tho. Also crammed 16k people in the forum

If that means no one cares then boxing is truly dead because that's as good as it gets

Thats why he will continue to cash in easy money whilst claiming everyone is avoiding him sadly.

Lance wrote:Thats why he will continue to cash in easy money whilst claiming everyone is avoiding him sadly.

Nothing says hungry for a Golovkin fight like fighting a guy whose last world title came at 140lbs

Im not sticking up for Canelo

So who are you sticking up for?
Saunders?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJuwAz-ekoQ

http://www.boxingnews24.com/2015/12/saunders-im-18-months-away-golovkin-fight/

Eubanks? Probably the only 160lbs genuinely interested in public but answers on a postcard for who he has on his ledger that's better than, say, Wade?

Golovkin fighting Wade was about as meaningless as Brook fighting Bizier, he hides too easily behind his mandatories, about time he moved up.

If Canelo doesn't fight him, he needs to move. He would beat everyone at 168.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Golovkin fighting Wade was about as meaningless as Brook fighting Bizier, he hides too easily behind his mandatories, about time he moved up.

If he doesn't fight his mandatory, he loses the belt. He can't win! he's just taking care of business whilst waiting for the World Champ at Caneloweight to decide whether he wants to keep the 160lb belt or move back to 154.

Why should a guy who is natural at middle, who wants to unify the division at welter be forced to move up because the various people who are "the man" at the weight refuse to fight him?

Canelo should fight him or be stripped. I avoid like the plague finishing forum posts with end of or fact in capitals, but those with less self respect than me can insert as they see fit.

FACT!

I was under the impression Golovkin had wanted Mayweather and it is indeed a fact he had opened negotiations with Froch and Hopkins at one point. Also he seemed to suggest a willingness to fight Ward too. If he has considered moving up and is currently fighting poor opposition its not a huge shock to suggest he gets on with it.

BoxingFan88 wrote:

sohotnot wrote:I always feel that was to get Floyd and to get his name out there and that was a couple of years ago, I doubt he could make 154 now nor do I think he he's big enough for 175. If he can't get Canelo, Khan or Jacobs at 160 then he must move up to SMW.

Nope, why should he, he wants to get all the belts, regardless of what we think he isn't the lineal champion, he should move up only when he is the lineal champion

Maybe I should have written he should move up if he cant get Canelo,Khan or Jacobs at 160, because thats where the big fights will now be for him. I understand he wants all the belts but Canelo & the powers that be are preventing this. With regards to lineal champion does it really mean that much? Lets be honest if the WBC strip the winner of Canelo vs Khan for not meeting GGG he may well get the chance to fight for the vacant belt but he won't actually be lineal champion. There will be a few on here that will hold that against him. He can't win really can he.

I'm guessing the phrase "cutting off your nose to spite your face" is applicable to GGG if he continues to be unable to secure the big fights at 160.

I don't think anyone is suggesting he's a coward for not going up to 168, it's just that atm he NEEDS to step up to 168 if he wants the big fights

He's too good for anyone at middle and every middleweight knows that so yes they are gonna avoid him like the plague.....but this has been happening to GGG from when he first burst onto the scene and he hasn't really done anything with his career in truth for the past couple years

If he's happy to wait around for some middleweight to dethrone him then he's gonna be waiting a while as canelo just will not fight him.
if he really does want to fight canelo then he has to take the risk of boiling down to 155 and do whatever canelo demands because canelo doesn't need GGG but GGG needs canelo

Saul Alvarez must face Gennady Golovkin or lose title, WBC confirms
By Isaac Robinson
http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/10259750/saul-alvarez-told-hell-lose-his-wbc-world-title-unless-he-faces-gennady-golovkin

The WBC has confirmed it will strip Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez of his world middleweight title if he fails to meet Gennady Golovkin.

Alvarez (46-1-1-KO32) puts the belt on the line when he faces Amir Khan at a catchweight of 155lbs in Las Vegas on May 7 and, if victorious, will have 15 days to agree to take on interim champion Golovkin (35-0-KO32).

Golovkin - the WBA 'Super' and IBF champion - crushed Dominic Wade inside two rounds at the weekend to increase demand for a unification showdown but Alvarez's promoter Oscar De La Hoya has said several times he feels the match-up needs to 'marinate' further.

But in an interview reported on boxingscene.com, WBA president Mauricio Sulaiman said: "Oscar can say whatever he wants. It's his right to do so, but we are also within our rights to take the title away from his boxer if he does not meet [his obligation]."

Golovkin's trainer Abel Sanchez pointed the finger at De La Hoya for preventing the fight taking place.

Sanchez said: "I do not think Canelo is afraid of Golovkin. I think more than anything it's to do with Canelo's promoter, Oscar De La Hoya. I think he's the one who is trying to avoid the fight."

Britain's WBO king Billy Joe Saunders and WBA holder Daniel Jacobs are the other champions in the middleweight division.

The golovkin Alvarez sparring from a few years back was apparently pretty competitive... Alvarez wasn't busted out of the gym like so many others allegedly. So hopefully they do steer there way through the various hoops and get it on. Oscar lost a few and his stock didn't diminish. Golovkin would rightly be favourite but if Alvarez gave a good, even if losing account of himself (which personally I think he would) his stock wouldn't drop.

C'mon Oscar, there's marinating and there's a rotting carcass!

I think they should offer the fight at 157. I hate catchweights and the bloody fight should be 160. But 3 pounds isn't much and I think Canelo and his team would take it.

Ray Mancini says that the difference from 155 to 160lbs to a fighter is just a couple glasses of water. He says that Canelo should take of the dress and stop making demands.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2016/4/26/11509820/ray-mancini-canelo-take-off-the-dress-and-stop-making-demands

Personally, I hope GGG doesn't fight Canelo unless it's at 160lbs. Canelo wants the money too.

Atila wrote:Saul Alvarez must face Gennady Golovkin or lose title, WBC confirms
By Isaac Robinson
http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/10259750/saul-alvarez-told-hell-lose-his-wbc-world-title-unless-he-faces-gennady-golovkin

The WBC has confirmed it will strip Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez of his world middleweight title if he fails to meet Gennady Golovkin.

Alvarez (46-1-1-KO32) puts the belt on the line when he faces Amir Khan at a catchweight of 155lbs in Las Vegas on May 7 and, if victorious, will have 15 days to agree to take on interim champion Golovkin (35-0-KO32).

Golovkin - the WBA 'Super' and IBF champion - crushed Dominic Wade inside two rounds at the weekend to increase demand for a unification showdown but Alvarez's promoter Oscar De La Hoya has said several times he feels the match-up needs to 'marinate' further.

But in an interview reported on boxingscene.com, WBA president Mauricio Sulaiman said: "Oscar can say whatever he wants. It's his right to do so, but we are also within our rights to take the title away from his boxer if he does not meet [his obligation]."

Golovkin's trainer Abel Sanchez pointed the finger at De La Hoya for preventing the fight taking place.

Sanchez said: "I do not think Canelo is afraid of Golovkin. I think more than anything it's to do with Canelo's promoter, Oscar De La Hoya. I think he's the one who is trying to avoid the fight."

Britain's WBO king Billy Joe Saunders and WBA holder Daniel Jacobs are the other champions in the middleweight division.

Pretty irrelevant, IMO, as the WBC has never said it will strip Canelo if he doesn't defend his title at 160. So there's a nice little exit door for Canelo to walk straight out of by only offering the fight at 'Caneloweight'. Uncle Sul will always rather his title is in the hands of a Mexican....

Atila wrote:Ray Mancini says that the difference from 155 to 160lbs to a fighter is just a couple glasses of water. He says that Canelo should take of the dress and stop making demands.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2016/4/26/11509820/ray-mancini-canelo-take-off-the-dress-and-stop-making-demands

Personally, I hope GGG doesn't fight Canelo unless it's at 160lbs. Canelo wants the money too.

Doesn't really work like that

Look canelo hasn't gone from fighting at 160 to now demand 155, he's NEVER fought at 160 and he's made that clear, why he's a middleweight champ is a joke but it's in the rules

Canelo is the A side he can do whatever the hell he wants to onus is on golovkin. If 5lbs is a couple glasses of water why doesn't GGG just take the fight at 155, beat canelo (as he will) then go back up to 160

For a single fight, yes a SINGLE fight GGG will get the fight he dreaming about and all it'll take is a "couple glasses if water"

If GGG can't make 155 then we have a fact, and that fact is GGG is bigger than Canelo because canelo has proven he can make 155 4 or 5 times now

I'm not saying canelo is in the right but GGG could get this made so easily if he really wanted to

Im not a doctor or scientist, but two glasses of water equate to 5 lbs? they must be big glasses I guess.

If Golovkin agreed tot he catchweight, would Golden Boy take it? Questionable. They just are not keen on the fight. It sounds like they are prepared to ditch title if forced to choose.

The trueest test of a fighters fighting weight is what he weighs on fight night. Alvarez and Golovkin are little different. The Caneloweight is rubbish. If we are going to have the fight, lets have it properly. Both men fit and healthy in the ring at the weight they are comfortable at.

Or maybe Canelo can stipulate Golovkin can only box with one hand? And if Golovkin doesnt accept hes a fraud.

Baby faced assassin wrote:

Atila wrote:Ray Mancini says that the difference from 155 to 160lbs to a fighter is just a couple glasses of water. He says that Canelo should take of the dress and stop making demands.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2016/4/26/11509820/ray-mancini-canelo-take-off-the-dress-and-stop-making-demands

Personally, I hope GGG doesn't fight Canelo unless it's at 160lbs. Canelo wants the money too.

Doesn't really work like that

Look canelo hasn't gone from fighting at 160 to now demand 155, he's NEVER fought at 160 and he's made that clear, why he's a middleweight champ is a joke but it's in the rules

Canelo is the A side he can do whatever the hell he wants to onus is on golovkin. If 5lbs is a couple glasses of water why doesn't GGG just take the fight at 155, beat canelo (as he will) then go back up to 160

For a single fight, yes a SINGLE fight GGG will get the fight he dreaming about and all it'll take is a "couple glasses if water"

If GGG can't make 155 then we have a fact, and that fact is GGG is bigger than Canelo because canelo has proven he can make 155 4 or 5 times now

I'm not saying canelo is in the right but GGG could get this made so easily if he really wanted to

How much of an A side Canelo is compared to GGG is open to debate. Canelo isn't exactly up there with Floyd and GGG isn't exactly a bottom feeder desperate for a payday.

As for the onus being on GGG to make the fight? Well, if the fight didn't happen because of any catchweight nonsense it would be Canelo who would lose my respect not GGG. No fighter should have to potentially weaken themselves in order to get a fight unless they're desperate for the money. I want to see fighters fight at their best weight. If middleweight is not Canelo's best weight then he needs to fight at 154lbs. Boxing will survive if Canelo fights GGG or not. I'm not into the idea that everything should be done to make one fighter happy just so I can see a fight. Personally, I'd have even more respect for GGG if he told Canelo to stick his catchweight rules up his a#s! May not happen, but I can hope.

... I agree with the sentiment Atila excepting that GGG has (not that long ago) said he'd go to 154. Sure he may think its a gamble worth taking for the floyd money pot, and not for Canelo... but if you can make the weight you can make the weight.

It doesn't alter that the situation sucks.. it's the middleweight title it should be at 160, no discussions... or pick a weight you both agree to and fight without a title on the line.

The point is though that previously saying you'll fight at 154 and then turning down a fight at 155 gives up some (only some) of the moral high ground.

Did I mention moral high ground on a boxing thread. Shame on me.

Apparently Loeffler & Hearn talking about Kell Brook at 157.......?????

Hoefully that's smokescreening from Tom and baiting Canelo up to 157 by saying GGG would fight there without formally engaging in negotiations.

milkyboy wrote:... I agree with the sentiment Atila excepting that GGG has (not that long ago) said he'd go to 154. Sure he may think its a gamble worth taking for the floyd money pot, and not for Canelo... but if you can make the weight you can make the weight.

It doesn't alter that the situation sucks.. it's the middleweight title it should be at 160, no discussions... or pick a weight you both agree to and fight without a title on the line.

The point is though that previously saying you'll fight at 154 and then turning down a fight at 155 gives up some (only some) of the moral high ground.

Did I mention moral high ground on a boxing thread. Shame on me.

Okay. He makes 154. Who does he fight?

I feel like I've entered a strange parallel universe where a fighter asking to contest the world middleweight title at the middleweight limit is something that warrants debate. We live in crazy times.