England v Wales

First topic message reminder :

Anyone know much about the ticket sales for this game?

I may head down for this, however just took a quick peak for tickets and there is only one block available, and not 2 tickets sat together. It can't be sold out already can it?

Anyone know?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

stub wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I really didn't see the England 2nd string battering a very strong Welsh side....really surprised.

No Sgt, as I said earlier, really expected Wales to win this one.

Hard to explain really.

Our Strength in depth is better than expected is all I can think...

lost the stream, what is the score

Or are Wales currently that bad?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

stub wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I really didn't see the England 2nd string battering a very strong Welsh side....really surprised.

No Sgt, as I said earlier, really expected Wales to win this one.

Hard to explain really.

Not really, Wales players are all on the plane to NZ, I said England would win by 12 or so, and it's been about what was expected.

It's a shame Welsh players have been so poor, i've counted 16 unforced errors.

I would be dissapointed if I was an England fan that Wales were so poor, it takes away from some serious performances.

Final score 27-13

Good match - enjoyed that. Hard luck to the Welsh team - not a vintage performance from you.

Nice afternoon, a good England win, now time for a beer and bbq I think

Message sent.

Very encouraging for England, trying out a lot of young players and with a kicker that might as well have been in the dressing room outclassed a strong Wales teams across the pitch. Forwards in particular dominated lineout, scrum and breakdown, even when the bench came on.

A very shaky start for England, Wales the better team in the first half, even thought George Ford missed 7/8 kicks at goal. England though run away with it in the second half with Wales not scoring a single point.


England's strength in depth really coming to the for now. Eddie Jones so done a really good job getting England may be not playing the best rugby but playing winning rugby.

Well played England a good win today.

Nice to see the up and coming England front row powering through to win a penalty at the end as well.

Things looking precarious at ten though. If I was the Aussie coach I'd be advising a couple of digs on Farrell early doors to see just how sore those ribs and that hip is. He doesn't make it past the first test and Australia will be feeling confident against the inexperienced Slade, the mentally broken Ford or the mecurial Burns.

TightHEAD wrote:where do Wales go from here?

IMO they need new coaches

For the first time since Gatland was appointed I'm stating to agree with people who say this, Wales have been pathetic lately and look like they need to drastically change things and have fresh faces. Wales are awful and going backwards each season.

Awful resut today which will be simply dismissed by Gatland, does he honestly think New Zealand would tolerate these kind of results if he was the All Blacks coach? We've had a terrible season which is about to get a lot worse in New Zealand.

Hard not to agree with Woodward, in the poor decision to kick the ball out against such a passive Wales team.

Well, that was a beating. Rainbow warrior about anywhere?

Anyway I don't wish to be discourteous to the largely solid Welsh fans on this site, pushed us very hard in the first half and well I don't really know what happened to you in the second.

Impressed with Harrison and Clifford and Launchbury underlined why Kruis and Itoje will have to continue to be very good. Lawes had his best game for England for ages too.

Gutted for Ford, his head just isn't in the game at all.

Jamie Roberts interview pretty much highlights the Welsh mindset!

I don't know who decided a 'meh' attitude was good enough, but it clearly showed today.

Not great, and so happy I didn't bother getting a ticket now.

offload wrote:A second string England, unable to kick a point, making loads of mistakes and having given penalties away all afternoon, have made Wales look woeful. Can't wait to hear who Gatland blames for this one.

He was getting his excuses in early during the pre-match interview talking about the ref etc ...

Good to see England fans are still gracious as ever.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Or are Wales currently that bad?

Warburton aside thats the best we can do in terms of players, I thought it was pathetic to be honest.  Far too many of these players won't be dropped and have simply got used to turning up and being picked regardless of form, Gatland either needs to leave or he needs to start look at fresh blood.  Some players have simply had too many caps and don't deserve any more based on form, energy and effort.

Wales aren't in England's league at the moment, they can dominate the 6 nations for years based on how poor the other 5 teams are.

stub wrote:Good match - enjoyed that. Hard luck to the Welsh team - not a vintage performance from you.

Didn't see the first half, but in the second, it wasn't hard luck: England completely dominated every aspect of the game, Launchbury was superb, Lawes seemed back to his old self for the 20 minutes I saw him on the field. The English backrow completely owned the Welsh one, Harrison and Clifford looked in a different league with their pace.

With what I saw of Joseph he looked good, blinding acceleration taking him to space and both Care and Youngs looked sharp in their different ways.

Starting to look forward to Australia now, we may have the game to them and beat them in a true Aussie style.

Yarde looked good, far better than his club games. Oh, and the confidence of youth, Genge coming on and playing without any fear, taking his game to Wales, fairy tale year for that young man.

mikey_dragon wrote:Good to see England fans (on 606) are still gracious as ever.

Don't tar them all...

I thought the ref saved Wales a degree of pain, England weren't allowed to turn the ball at the breakdown all game. Regardless of the circumstances.

To be honest i actually thought Wales would get revenge today and win well against England.


Wales did start well then dropped off the pace of the game. To come out in the second half and not score a single point, is rather shocking in you are a Welsh fan, but if you are a English fan like me then you will say it is down to good English defence.

mikey_dragon wrote:Good to see England fans are still gracious as ever.

we have had a fair bit of tutoring on how to be gracious from your fellow countryman in the last few years

Shifty wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Or are Wales currently that bad?

Warburton aside thats the best we can do in terms of players, I thought it was pathetic to be honest.  Far too many of these players won't be dropped and have simply got used to turning up and being picked regardless of form, Gatland either needs to leave or he needs to start look at fresh blood.  Some players have simply had too many caps and don't deserve any more based on form, energy and effort.

Wales aren't in England's league at the moment, they can dominate the 6 nations for years based on how poor the other 5 teams are.

I think Liam Williams personifies your point, he's been absolutlely gutless all season!

Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I think it was more a scratch England team got used to each other and stopped Wales playing. There have been a few performances that will make Eddie take notice.

Cumbrian wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I think it was more a scratch England team got used to each other and stopped Wales playing.  There have been a few performances that will make Eddie take notice.

Not against such a passive team, every standout performance will be devalued by that Welsh performance.

Yarde and Clifford were probably the 2 that really caught the eye, but neither will prob start against Aus.

Fanster wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Or are Wales currently that bad?

Warburton aside thats the best we can do in terms of players, I thought it was pathetic to be honest.  Far too many of these players won't be dropped and have simply got used to turning up and being picked regardless of form, Gatland either needs to leave or he needs to start look at fresh blood.  Some players have simply had too many caps and don't deserve any more based on form, energy and effort.

Wales aren't in England's league at the moment, they can dominate the 6 nations for years based on how poor the other 5 teams are.

I think Liam Williams personifies your point, he's been absolutlely gutless all season!

No so much a glass cannon, he's more of a glass blunt knife.  No attacking threat and likely to break for 6 months with any contact.  Total cráp across the entire squad at the moment.  While people in the WRU and regions wonder why Welsh fans are totally fed up and leaving the pro game in droves.

TightHEAD wrote:where do Wales go from here?

IMO they need new coaches

You've got to expect some sort of first test reaction.

I'm not saying they'll win but do me they must be carrying a gut full.

kingelderfield wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:where do Wales go from here?

IMO they need new coaches

You've got to expect some sort of first test reaction.

I'm not saying they'll win but do me they must be carrying a gut full.

I don't think it's going to happen, and no point ever have any Welsh team shown any kind of guts and courage in New Zealand. I'm not hopeful for these players, the heart and fire just isn't there. They simply want to pick up great money for little effort and swan around Wales as if their demi-gods.

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

mickay

I did not see the game but listen to it on the internet and Rob Jones wa commantating.

He could not understand why Wales was not kicking for goal but kept going for the corner. Then he said maybe because it is not a World cup or a 6 nations match.

So do you think that Wales thought this was just a friendly, and the result did not matter. Was that why they played like they did?

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I think it was more a scratch England team got used to each other and stopped Wales playing.  There have been a few performances that will make Eddie take notice.

Not against such a passive team, every standout performance will be devalued by that Welsh performance.

Yarde and Clifford were probably the 2 that really caught the eye, but neither will prob start against Aus.

You can only beat what is put in front of you and they did, comfortably. I would say that Launchbury, Harrison and Clifford did enough to be noticed. Unfortunately so did Ford and Youngs for other reasons. You may disagree but I can tell you that English fans will be pleased with how a few of those lads showed up.

Cumbrian wrote:I thought the ref saved Wales a degree of pain, England weren't allowed to turn the ball at the breakdown all game.  Regardless of the circumstances.

The breakdown was bizzare. Harrison got pinged for seemingly fine turnovers and then Kvesic(I think) got one near the end.

Well the positives for England are Clifford, Launchbury and to a lesser extent Mullan with Ford and Youngs where we went awry. Surprised we won to be fair but quality performance despite Fords awful kicking and (for me) coles knock on for Cliffords try.

Shifty wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Or are Wales currently that bad?

Warburton aside thats the best we can do in terms of players, I thought it was pathetic to be honest.  Far too many of these players won't be dropped and have simply got used to turning up and being picked regardless of form, Gatland either needs to leave or he needs to start look at fresh blood.  Some players have simply had too many caps and don't deserve any more based on form, energy and effort.

Wales aren't in England's league at the moment, they can dominate the 6 nations for years based on how poor the other 5 teams are.

I think Liam Williams personifies your point, he's been absolutlely gutless all season!

No so much a glass cannon, he's more of a glass blunt knife.  No attacking threat and likely to break for 6 months with any contact.  Total cráp across the entire squad at the moment.  While people in the WRU and regions wonder why Welsh fans are totally fed up and leaving the pro game in droves.

I don't think it's fair to say the suad is total crap, there are serious issues with a lot of players who are not being challenged to keep their place, I think Halfpenny walks back into the 15 position half fit due to Williams inability to play like he has something to prove, similar could be said of the entire backline, who, when given any sort of platform shuffled the ball along the line until pushed into touch.

I think a lot of players were slipping off simple tackles, and not many were willing to step up in defence, maybe due to long lists of constant injury, or just with an eye on NZ, 9 dropped balls under no pressure was indicitive of the mindset, and even Roberts interview was one of 'meh' as opposed to dissapointment even.

Except for the first 10 minutes, and possibly 3/4 minutes after the knock on try there was very little from Wales in terms of real effort or guts.

Regarding the Cole 'knock on' (first time I have seen a ball knocked forward through a players legs). You've got to look at this way, do you really think Wales are going down to NZ and avoid getting home town decisions? I'll tell you now that they won't. I remember watching the much feted Nigel Owens completely bottle two clear as day NZ cards last time we were down there. You will not get the rub of the green and you should get used to it.

Reading this people thought Harrison did well? Thought he was ok but didn't show much yet myself.

You can see why Eddie likes Genge, comes on for his England debut chewing gum..

Fanster wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Shifty wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Or are Wales currently that bad?

Warburton aside thats the best we can do in terms of players, I thought it was pathetic to be honest.  Far too many of these players won't be dropped and have simply got used to turning up and being picked regardless of form, Gatland either needs to leave or he needs to start look at fresh blood.  Some players have simply had too many caps and don't deserve any more based on form, energy and effort.

Wales aren't in England's league at the moment, they can dominate the 6 nations for years based on how poor the other 5 teams are.

I think Liam Williams personifies your point, he's been absolutlely gutless all season!

No so much a glass cannon, he's more of a glass blunt knife.  No attacking threat and likely to break for 6 months with any contact.  Total cráp across the entire squad at the moment.  While people in the WRU and regions wonder why Welsh fans are totally fed up and leaving the pro game in droves.

I don't think it's fair to say the suad is total crap, there are serious issues with a lot of players who are not being challenged to keep their place, I think Halfpenny walks back into the 15 position half fit due to Williams inability to play like he has something to prove, similar could be said of the entire backline, who, when given any sort of platform shuffled the ball along the line until pushed into touch.

I think a lot of players were slipping off simple tackles, and not many were willing to step up in defence, maybe due to long lists of constant injury, or just with an eye on NZ, 9 dropped balls under no pressure was indicitive of the mindset, and even Roberts interview was one of 'meh' as opposed to dissapointment even.

Except for the first 10 minutes, and possibly 3/4 minutes after the knock on try there was very little from Wales in terms of real effort or guts.

Its getting a bit regular the under performance for large periods for it not to be the norm.

Cumbrian wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I think it was more a scratch England team got used to each other and stopped Wales playing.  There have been a few performances that will make Eddie take notice.

Not against such a passive team, every standout performance will be devalued by that Welsh performance.

Yarde and Clifford were probably the 2 that really caught the eye, but neither will prob start against Aus.

You can only beat what is put in front of you and they did, comfortably.  I would say that Launchbury, Harrison and Clifford did enough to be noticed.  Unfortunately so did Ford and Youngs for other reasons.  You may disagree but I can tell you that English fans will be pleased with how a few of those lads showed up.

Launchbury's return was always expected, he's a quality operator and has been tipped for captaincy from years back.

Clifford played well, but with all his good work against such a passive and gutless defence it's hard to judge.

Harris is a haywire operator, and is a less intelligent Haskell around the breakdown, I think he did more harm than good today.

I don't disagree with you at all, England fans will be pleased, but they shouldn't be OTT, it wasn't a quality game, Wales were extremely dissapointing, and the difference in the teams were young hungry players with something to play for and prove, the big performer for me today was Yarde. Totally electric in everything he did, and for me couldn't possibly have done more to be selected!

Cumbrian wrote:Regarding the Cole 'knock on' (first time I have seen a ball knocked forward through a players legs).  You've got to look at this way, do you really think Wales are going down to NZ and avoid getting home town decisions? I'll tell you now that they won't.  I remember watching the much feted Nigel Owens completely bottle two clear as day NZ cards last time we were down there.  You will not get the rub of the green and you should get used to it.

Wales play slow rugby, with poor skills. New Zealand will recycle quickly and the Welsh defense won't be able to realign, New Zealand will look to use skills and speed, not power and we won't be able to cope with that. I fully expect New Zealand to score just short of 50 points in each of their games with Wales around 10.

Overall a scrappy mediocre game. Launchbury benefited as did Clifford and Watson.

Unbelievably, he says with some sarcasm, we're struggling at 9, 10 & 12.

Farrell will take the 10 though I'd have Cipriani with Mallinder at 12 and Care at 9 with Robson on the bench.

As for Youngs, one swallow dive does not make a summer.

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I think it was more a scratch England team got used to each other and stopped Wales playing.  There have been a few performances that will make Eddie take notice.

Not against such a passive team, every standout performance will be devalued by that Welsh performance.

Yarde and Clifford were probably the 2 that really caught the eye, but neither will prob start against Aus.

You can only beat what is put in front of you and they did, comfortably.  I would say that Launchbury, Harrison and Clifford did enough to be noticed.  Unfortunately so did Ford and Youngs for other reasons.  You may disagree but I can tell you that English fans will be pleased with how a few of those lads showed up.

Launchbury's return was always expected, he's a quality operator and has been tipped for captaincy from years back.

Clifford played well, but with all his good work against such a passive and gutless defence it's hard to judge.

Harris is a haywire operator, and is a less intelligent Haskell around the breakdown, I think he did more harm than good today.

I don't disagree with you at all, England fans will be pleased, but they shouldn't be OTT, it wasn't a quality game, Wales were extremely dissapointing, and the difference in the teams were young hungry players with something to play for and prove, the big performer for me today was Yarde. Totally electric in everything he did, and for me couldn't possibly have done more to be selected!

What makes you say that?  I can think of at least one occasion when he saved England's bacon by ripping the ball away from the Welsh maul right at the end of the first half.  He gave away one penalty that I can remember (but which open side doesn't?).

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I think it was more a scratch England team got used to each other and stopped Wales playing.  There have been a few performances that will make Eddie take notice.

Not against such a passive team, every standout performance will be devalued by that Welsh performance.

Yarde and Clifford were probably the 2 that really caught the eye, but neither will prob start against Aus.

You can only beat what is put in front of you and they did, comfortably.  I would say that Launchbury, Harrison and Clifford did enough to be noticed.  Unfortunately so did Ford and Youngs for other reasons.  You may disagree but I can tell you that English fans will be pleased with how a few of those lads showed up.

Launchbury's return was always expected, he's a quality operator and has been tipped for captaincy from years back.

Clifford played well, but with all his good work against such a passive and gutless defence it's hard to judge.

Harris is a haywire operator, and is a less intelligent Haskell around the breakdown, I think he did more harm than good today.

I don't disagree with you at all, England fans will be pleased, but they shouldn't be OTT, it wasn't a quality game, Wales were extremely dissapointing, and the difference in the teams were young hungry players with something to play for and prove, the big performer for me today was Yarde. Totally electric in everything he did, and for me couldn't possibly have done more to be selected!

Yup Wales were disappointing but a very similar performance to the last 4 or 5 against England.

Have never understood the hype around Faletau, one of the all time greats? Talk about hyperbole.

How anyone can say Harrison did more harm than good is mind boggling. Apart from a pen for taking out the scrum half he was quality. Nusience at the breakdown, consistently broke tackles and that maul turnover 5m out was class.

A lot of youngsters held their hand up today, very encouraging.

Fanster wrote:I don't think it's fair to say the suad is total crap, there are serious issues with a lot of players who are not being challenged to keep their place, I think Halfpenny walks back into the 15 position half fit due to Williams inability to play like he has something to prove, similar could be said of the entire backline, who, when given any sort of platform shuffled the ball along the line until pushed into touch.

I think a lot of players were slipping off simple tackles, and not many were willing to step up in defence, maybe due to long lists of constant injury, or just with an eye on NZ, 9 dropped balls under no pressure was indicitive of the mindset, and even Roberts interview was one of 'meh' as opposed to dissapointment even.

Except for the first 10 minutes, and possibly 3/4 minutes after the knock on try there was very little from Wales in terms of real effort or guts.

Ok Webb, Amos, and Rob Evans, were decent enough today. Faletau was average, though poor by his normal standards. But Baldwin, Ball, Biggar, Lydiate and Jamie Roberts were complete dross. I think we really need to look at Baldwin, it looked he might be ok if he learned to throw in the line out, but it appears he's going backwards, and has stopped trying to improve. He got the hookers jersey and decided he's "made it". Ball isn't international class, he's just a big lump that makes to omany mistakes, a one season wonder. I'm not really sure if Lydiate is needed, we now have Ross Moriarty and he seems a better player.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

Fanster wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:Don't really understand.  We started really well but just stopped playing.  Weird

I think it was more a scratch England team got used to each other and stopped Wales playing.  There have been a few performances that will make Eddie take notice.

Not against such a passive team, every standout performance will be devalued by that Welsh performance.

Yarde and Clifford were probably the 2 that really caught the eye, but neither will prob start against Aus.

You can only beat what is put in front of you and they did, comfortably.  I would say that Launchbury, Harrison and Clifford did enough to be noticed.  Unfortunately so did Ford and Youngs for other reasons.  You may disagree but I can tell you that English fans will be pleased with how a few of those lads showed up.

Launchbury's return was always expected, he's a quality operator and has been tipped for captaincy from years back.

Clifford played well, but with all his good work against such a passive and gutless defence it's hard to judge.

Harris is a haywire operator, and is a less intelligent Haskell around the breakdown, I think he did more harm than good today.

I don't disagree with you at all, England fans will be pleased, but they shouldn't be OTT, it wasn't a quality game, Wales were extremely dissapointing, and the difference in the teams were young hungry players with something to play for and prove, the big performer for me today was Yarde. Totally electric in everything he did, and for me couldn't possibly have done more to be selected!

Yup Wales were disappointing but a very similar performance to the last 4 or 5 against England.

See now I find this odd, you'd think a humiliating record result in 2015 would be enough for some perspective, in the last 3 years England have had the better, however when Wales have had the better they've broken records, so currently I'd be a bit coy as to taunt opposing teams.

Shifty wrote:

Fanster wrote:I don't think it's fair to say the suad is total crap, there are serious issues with a lot of players who are not being challenged to keep their place, I think Halfpenny walks back into the 15 position half fit due to Williams inability to play like he has something to prove, similar could be said of the entire backline, who, when given any sort of platform shuffled the ball along the line until pushed into touch.

I think a lot of players were slipping off simple tackles, and not many were willing to step up in defence, maybe due to long lists of constant injury, or just with an eye on NZ, 9 dropped balls under no pressure was indicitive of the mindset, and even Roberts interview was one of 'meh' as opposed to dissapointment even.

Except for the first 10 minutes, and possibly 3/4 minutes after the knock on try there was very little from Wales in terms of real effort or guts.

Ok Webb, Amos, and Rob Evans, were decent enough today.  Faletau was average, though poor by his normal standards.  But Baldwin, Ball, Biggar, Lydiate and Jamie Roberts were complete dross.  I think we really need to look at Baldwin, it looked he might be ok if he learned to throw in the line out, but it appears he's going backwards, and has stopped trying to improve.  He got the hookers jersey and decided he's "made it".    Ball isn't international class, he's just a big lump that makes to omany mistakes, a one season wonder.  I'm not really sure if Lydiate is needed, we now have Ross Moriarty and he seems a better player.

Webb looked ok, but made a fair few mistakes. Rob Evans similar. Amos looked like a spark, and just needed more ball.

Falatau today was half hearted, I commented during the game about him failing to engage in a maul, and just walked around the wrong side looking into the crowd. He is technically the best 8 in the north, but today he, and a lot of other players were far more interested in not getting injured than an English scalp at twickers.

Baldwin was good at what he does, but Ball is and was awfull. Lydiate went off very early, not fair to say he was complete dross. I'm pretty sure he was taken off for little reason too. Just rewatch Roberts interview after the match to see his mindset, he barely had a sweat on. Biggar too, did not want to go into contact, and really didn't want contact coming his way!

I'd suggest players who actually had a point to prove, Amos, Dacey, Webb were the only ones who showed anything. Too many players were mentally sat on the plane, whereas England had a lot of starters who had something to play for.

Cumbrian wrote:Regarding the Cole 'knock on' (first time I have seen a ball knocked forward through a players legs).  You've got to look at this way, do you really think Wales are going down to NZ and avoid getting home town decisions? I'll tell you now that they won't.  I remember watching the much feted Nigel Owens completely bottle two clear as day NZ cards last time we were down there.  You will not get the rub of the green and you should get used to it.

Very good point, plus it wasn't a knock on, plus the original angle didn't show if it was or wasn't which wasn't good enough to rule out a try as the ref had asked any reason I can't award not try yes or no.

kingelderfield wrote:Overall a scrappy mediocre game. Launchbury benefited as did Clifford and Watson.

Unbelievably, he says with some sarcasm, we're struggling at 9, 10 & 12.

Farrell will take the 10 though I'd have Cipriani with Mallinder at 12 and Care at 9 with Robson on the bench.

As for Youngs, one swallow dive does not make a summer.

Youngs was very good in the six nations. I missed the opening twenty or so of today's game but he was otherwise solid and moved the ball well around the base, he's still a bit slow but around he's very creative and his kicking game is head and shoulders above Care's. Care threw some dodgy passes but his kicking was better than it was in the six nations.

Harrison had a decent game from what I saw. Made an error or two and incurred the refs wrath but that's standard for an open side, particularly on debut. He was good and physical ball in hamd as well. Not quite as impressive as Clifford but still played well.