EU exit - So folks what are you all thinking?

Just curious to know what you all think and what way you will be voting.

Will it have an affect on rugby (from point of view of bringing in non-British players, coaches for example).
Will sterling devalue so that it will be impossible for English clubs to compete with French Euro clubs
What about Scotland? Will this push them out of the UK?
How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

Europe is far from perfect and aspects of the deal (like, for instance, fishing access to UK coastal waters) have never been good for us.

However- despite all that they still act as a balance to some aspects of what our government wants to do. The idea of the likes of Gideon Osborne or Grove having even more power and fewer checks and balances on what they do worries me.

Strange times. The conservative party is ripping itself in half over all of this, and yet the other two main parties are too weak and useless to make anything of it.

hmmm - corrupt EU politicians, corrupt Westminster Politicians, you have to take your pick and you have to be very selfish, it's about how it effects you and your part of the world.

I'm voting to stay in.

Any campaign that's backed by that pair of oaf's Johnson and Gove just cannot get my vote.

As for Rugby...

Will it have an affect on rugby (from point of view of bringing in non-British players, coaches for example).

not sure what you are getting at here, what has thats got to do with the EEC - Ireland are not contemplating leaving the EEC yet there are several non Irish coaches/players in the clubs governed by IRFU. How will leaving the EEC change anything?

Will sterling devalue so that it will be impossible for English clubs to compete with French Euro clubs

Sterling be devalued? - Whilst the UK might not be the leading economic powerhouse in the world at least the stirling hasn't got to worry about the failing economies of several parts of the EEC, the Euro is under a lot of pressure, Stirling not so much. Anyway, given the French wage cap is so much more than the PRL clubs, it wouldn't matter anyway. Nobody can compete against the French importing stars - you just have to develop them yourselves.

What about Scotland? Will this push them out of the UK?

Lot of discussion about that, lets see what happens.

How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

The border has always existed - as has the Anglo-Scottish border and the Anglo-Welsh border, not sure what you are getting at here.

How will leaving the EEC effect this?

TrailApe wrote:

How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

The border has always existed - as has the Anglo-Scottish border and the Anglo-Welsh border, not sure what you are getting at here.

How will leaving the EEC effect this?

With all due respect, the Anglo-Scottish border and the Anglo-Welsh border are quite different animals to the Northern Irish-Republic of Ireland border.  Not NOW thankfully....but historically, you'd have to have been crossing on a regular basis to realise how different that border has been.

In the event of a Brex-it, the Northern Irish-Republic of Ireland border would technically become a frontier border again between an EU member state and a non-EU member State.  Hardly anything similar to the Anglo-Welsh border.  

You'd hope that common sense would prevail at the border, even if a Brex-it happened.  But that kind of ideal might sink under the pressure of the UK wanting to keep control of its immigration, one of the main motivational points of Brex-it itself

SF since UK is not inside shengen area I would have thought that the EU makes no real difference as far as its borders (and customs) are concerned?

SecretFly wrote:

TrailApe wrote:

How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

The border has always existed - as has the Anglo-Scottish border and the Anglo-Welsh border, not sure what you are getting at here.

How will leaving the EEC effect this?

With all due respect, the Anglo-Scottish border and the Anglo-Welsh border are quite different animals to the Northern Irish-Republic of Ireland border.  Not NOW thankfully....but historically, you'd have to have been crossing on a regular basis to realise how different that border has been.

In the event of a Brex-it, the Northern Irish-Republic of Ireland border would technically become a frontier border again between an EU member state and a non-EU member State.  Hardly anything similar to the Anglo-Welsh border.  

You'd hope that common sense would prevail at the border, even if a Brex-it happened.  But that kind of ideal might sink under the pressure of the UK wanting to keep control of its immigration, one of the main motivational points of Brex-it itself

If the vote is to leave, then if BoJo/Gove/Farrage are to get their way and full border controls are imposed there either has to be a proper border between NI and ROI - or full checks between NI and mainland UK. The former is hard to manage, the latter is really one step to a unified Ireland.


Other than this, not sure how rugby would be affected be a vote either way - other than being caught up in a general period of financial uncertainty.

A physical border between the UK and Ireland must be imposed or the whole point of EU exit makes no sense.

It is total BS by the EU exit side that Ireland and the UK could come to some bilateral trade and security arrangement, to continue the common travel zone for Irish and Uk citizens, but for control checks for EU nations to be done in the republic - as long as Ireland remains in the EU this wouldn't be possible.

No matter what way they spin it there would need to be a physical land border between Ireland and the UK and logistically this is unworkable for both countries unless either Ireland left the EU or NI leaves the UK.

The reason I wouldn't be against a Brex-it (and this EU is something we're all in so we all have a right to an opinion on its workings) the reason I think a Brex-it wouldn't be bad is because I do think it would mean a necessary massive restructuring of the EU itself - as the practicality of an EU as currently exists would not make pragmatic sense with the UK and perhaps then other Nations saying 'enough is enough.  

The main reason the referendum is even considered is because, like it or not, a sufficient number of people throughout the UK are uncomfortable with the increasing power of this structure based in Brussels that increasingly demands compliance to their ideals within a supposed sovereign State.  The wilting of the power of sovereign States to govern themselves is an issue - throughout Europe - not just in the UK.

Therefore, Europe needs to retrace its steps rather than pushing forward stubbornly towards something that is increasingly worrying normal, non-politico, run-of-the-mill people.  It needs to be stripped of most of it's 'Governance' powers and recalibrated to become again a robust common trading area where Nation States do their own 'thinking' on governance but work in mutual respect and close cooperation as friendly neighbours.

A Brex-it might be the first step required for the UK to actually come back into something redefined and less didactic.  A Union of Nations not a Nation of servile Statelets.

SecretFly wrote:
The main reason the referendum is even considered is because, like it or not, a sufficient number of people throughout the UK are uncomfortable with the increasing power of this structure based in Brussels that increasingly demands compliance to their ideals within a supposed sovereign State.  .

No it isn't, it's because they read garbage like the Mail and the Sun.

If you asked 100 people which particular laws that the EU have imposed on the UK that people are unhappy with I bet many would struggle to name one,  except perhaps some directors/shareholders of large corporations who want to reduce workers conditions - less paid leave, more hours etc. but can't whilst the UK remains within the EU.

I think there has been a huge amount of BS coming from both sides. Personally I see advantages of staying and leaving, but in all honesty I think ill probably vote to stay in.

So many countries are unhappy, surely its better to stay in and fix it together than to be on the outside with no voice.

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
The main reason the referendum is even considered is because, like it or not, a sufficient number of people throughout the UK are uncomfortable with the increasing power of this structure based in Brussels that increasingly demands compliance to their ideals within a supposed sovereign State.  .

No it isn't, it's because they read garbage like the Mail and the Sun.

If you asked 100 people which particular laws that the EU have imposed on the UK that people are unhappy with I bet many would struggle to name one,  except perhaps some directors/shareholders of large corporations who want to reduce workers conditions - less paid leave, more hours etc. but can't whilst the UK remains within the EU.

It's the Mail and the Sun that speak to the Majority.

So, I'd disagree Rodders.  I'd say most observers are too busy looking at soaps, sport, and Top Gear than are concerned about the minute and complex laws and rules being churned out by a Commission and 'Parliament' few of us ever - ever - watch in action.  May I add - this is JUST as the EU project wants them too.  The Opiate of the People.  Give them lots of 'entertainment' to keep them ignorant and placid.  So the detail is never in the minds of the masses.  The politicians are dumb to think it is or even should be.

What people DO sense is this growling EU beast becoming more and more influential in the decisions of their duly elected Sovereign Governments.  And people who favour an EU (as currently structured) can preach all they like about the benefits, but all through Europe there is ample evidence that this project is increasingly being seen as something Force-Fed rather than something evolving slowly and naturally.  

It's a Bureaucratic Force Fed Project and it will cause more and more instability as more and more people instinctively react against a tightening noose.  You just have to read some of the quotes from the current President of the Commission to understand how the EU relies on 'detail' ignorance to push the political 'ideal'.

We've sleep walked into these situations before in Europe - as politicians/leaders yawned and said everything is fine, everyone is happy - but were proved very wrong.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think there has been a huge amount of BS coming from both sides. Personally I see advantages of staying and leaving, but in all honesty I think ill probably vote to stay in.

So many countries are unhappy, surely its better to stay in and fix it together than to be on the outside with no voice.

If the UK stay in then I hope they DO become a voice for fundamental change.... and not just for their own little segment... but truly give voice to the notion that the EU, to survive, must actually take quite a few paces backwards rather than forward.  There is hope in either eventuality (UK leaving or staying) as long as it's a beginning of serious pressure put on smug bureaucrats to change the very nature of the EU, its very philosophy.

Yeah I think ALL the countries need to be firm and direct it the correct way.

If it is just to carry on meandering as its going...then its not what we want.

SecretFly wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think there has been a huge amount of BS coming from both sides. Personally I see advantages of staying and leaving, but in all honesty I think ill probably vote to stay in.

So many countries are unhappy, surely its better to stay in and fix it together than to be on the outside with no voice.

If the UK stay in then I hope they DO become a voice for fundamental change.... and not just for their own little segment... but truly give voice to the notion that the EU, to survive, must actually take quite a few paces backwards rather than forward.  There is hope in either eventuality (UK leaving or staying) as long as it's a beginning of serious pressure put on smug bureaucrats to change the very nature of the EU, its very philosophy.

Well the problem is fly that fundamental change can only be done democratically, with the consent of other member states and the way to do that is convince other member states of the merits of the change you wish to instigate.

You don't do this by threatening to leave and isolating yourself.

The UK has made an error of judgement, they've vastly overestimated their hand.

Cameron genuinely believed the threat of a referendum would be enough to get the demands the eurosceptics wanted from Brussels. but they called his bluff and now the UK is in a lose lose situation.

If they stay in then they'll have to eat humble pie and crawl back to Europe, if they leave then they'll have to crawl back looking to negotiate a trade agreement -either way they'll be in worse position than now.

You do it anyway your Nation allows you to do it - legally.  

A referendum on Exit is democratic and no other Nation or combination therefore have the right to throw accusations that such a referendum is a Threat to anything - it's a Democratic voice of a distinct Nation within the overall EU structure.

You again are only looking at opinion in the UK -  AND assuming the voice of people voting along tribal party lines in EU elections is the voice of people's genuine opinions of where Europe should go.  Few seem to realise that when MEPs go to Europe they often merge with bigger 'Parties' that exist in the Parliament about which few of us give much attention to - but these Larger Units are becoming the stronger voice.  MEPs increasingly take their 'policy' views from their European Party identities and leaders not from their leaders back in UK, Ireland or France etc.

The Peoples of Europe will have a final voice on the EU project.... one way or another.  Ignoring the truth of dissent rising throughout Europe concerning the direction of the Project is extremely negligent and dangerous.

Better for us all that Negotiation is the method used to bring about the necessary changes - fundamental ones.

If anyone thinks UK saying YES to staying in is the end of dissent across Europe - they're being very naïve.

Feckin' bricking it they'll vote out and we'll have to reintroduce the border. Will be a disaster for NI. Any kind of settlement or change in our relationship with the EU has to preserve our cross-border links with the rest of Ireland or it'll be bad news for us...

And the cross border links WILL be preserved (even with a Brex-it) - because I guarantee you Notch, down here at least we're learning to say 'f**k off' to Europe telling us what to do and demanding we hop to it whilst doing so.  Many of us are jaded listening to the righteous pomp coming out of Brussels.

None of us want that border (North or South) and therefore none of us will accept it.

The Will of the People.  Time for peoples to talk back.  That's why I say whether UK ends up In or Out of the present EU construction, the EU must accept a radical program of fundamental reform.  The UK in real terms can't ever be 'outside' Europe so the pragmatic pressures will overcome the nonsense and a new Europe must be negotiated to create a system that the UK can buy into again.

I get the impression that the EU exit will happen. It will depend on the level of turn out for the referendum but I reckon the exit is highly likely.

If EU exit happens then there will be a UK border. One of the key strings to the EU exit argument is to retake control of its borders and immigration processes.

You can't achieve that if you leave a proverbial 'backdoor' open. So any EU citizen can travel to Dublin without the need for a visa, travel up to belfast by road/rail/bicycle/spacehopper, and pop across on a ferry into mainland UK.

Or you have a 'border' to the mainland UK but then 'immigrants' can just get into Northern Ireland and blah blah blah....

No, if EU exit happens it will result with a border being put up on the border.

Business will still happen, trade and commerce and the blue chip companies will make sure of that. But you'll have a checkpoint like that between Switzerland and Germany. And possibly different channels for Irish/UK passport holders and 'everybody else'.

And the monarch will recover their power once again.

Which laws will get scrapped though? Whats on the list of 'crazy stuff the EU made put into law' that will be scrapped first? Immigration rules obviously, cross-europe limits on mobile phone tariffs when travelling, certain human rights, any particular consumer protection provisions?

606v2 are you auto-correcting EU exit when people are typing Brex_it to make it EU exit?

Rules that remove or tweak coarse or offensive language I can understand. Logical while humorous.

But auto changing other other words or terms that might indicate a preferred political viewpoint/message! I'm afraid that is unacceptable.

SecretFly wrote:And the cross border links WILL be preserved (even with a Brex-it)

Not a chance. Can you imagine the implications on 6N match day where the Ulster boys miss the match because they are held up in border checks ....although in fairness most of them could skip the anthems anyway ...

Forget about the RWC bid too, how can you host part of it in the EU and part without? Travel for fans will be a nightmare.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:606v2 are you auto-correcting EU exit when people are typing Brex_it to make it EU exit?

Rules that remove or tweak coarse or offensive language I can understand. Logical while humorous.

But auto changing other other words or terms that might indicate a preferred political viewpoint/message! I'm afraid that is unacceptable.

I was wondering about that - why is Brex_it being changed to EU Exit (which doesn't make sense - the EU are not existing anything)?

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:And the cross border links WILL be preserved (even with a Brex-it)

Not a chance. Can you imagine the implications on 6N match day where the Ulster boys miss the match because they are held up in border checks ....although in fairness most of them could skip the anthems anyway ...

Forget about the RWC bid too, how can you host part of it in the EU and part without? Travel for fans will be a nightmare.

Move the Ulster designated games to Kingspan Clones

I've voted to stay in but am very worried about how tight the contest seems. About 7 million voters unregistered I think I heard and I believe that many of those votes could be vote remain types. (Young, disorganised, hungover etc!)

Were we to leave I  agree with the sentiment that in many ways I don't think things will change too much although I'd be terrified by the thought  of a Bojo/Gove leadership. I think that there'd be a high degree of pragmatism regarding  the Irish Border and that a solution would be found to that fairly promptly. Also agree with Fly here that even if the UK stays in there does appear a feeling of rebellion within Europe and a re-calibration is required.

Have you all seen the referendum sticky at the top? According to 606 the UK will remain in the EU. (It also talks about changing brex-it to EU exit.)

https://www.606v2.com/t62293-the-eu-referendum-thursday-23-june-with-voting-poll

In a nutshell, the world needs less borders, not more borders.

In my opinion in the Scottish independence referendum Scotland as a country would have gained nothing by voting to leave the rest of the UK. The UK will gain even less by voting to leave the EU.

I'm out. As a small business Brussels are crippling us. Why am I paying the same business rates as businesses in Cardiff ?

I challenged my local authorities about this and they are telling me it is out of their hands all these decisions are made in Brussels. How the feck can somebody who has never been to Merthyr decide what rates we pay ?

The EU is costing me about £30,000-£40,000 a year and the rates are going to go up !!!!!

I am fed up of it all.

Remain.

SecretFly wrote:And the cross border links WILL be preserved (even with a Brex-it) - because I guarantee you Notch, down here at least we're learning to say 'f**k off' to Europe telling us what to do and demanding we hop to it whilst doing so.  Many of us are jaded listening to the righteous pomp coming out of Brussels.

None of us want that border (North or South) and therefore none of us will accept it.

The Will of the People.  Time for peoples to talk back.  That's why I say whether UK ends up In or Out of the present EU construction, the EU must accept a radical program of fundamental reform.  The UK in real terms can't ever be 'outside' Europe so the pragmatic pressures will overcome the nonsense and a new Europe must be negotiated to create a system that the UK can buy into again.

I think if the UK does pull out of Europe, some sort of border control must be put in place to prevent other, non Irish, European nationals using the republic as a means to get into the UK - Northern Ireland.

EU is in very bad shape. 28 countries, each of whom have a veto on any reform...so how likely is this reform everyone keeps talking about?

how good a deal did Cameron manage to get from the other 27 countries? p1ss poor is what it was, even though i believe he did the best he could.

the EU is incapable of reform. and the newest 10 joiners, each of whom have a veto, do not care about the EU, all they care about is themselves....Voter turnout at MEP elections in the 10 most recently acceded countries is 22%...absolutely zero chance their politicians will agree to anything that is unpopular. therefore, reform impossible.

and therefore.

OUT.

and i do think it may actually happen. the increasingly desperate and hysterical claims and arguments mostly from REMAIN are turning off voters.

quinsforever wrote:EU is in very bad shape. 28 countries, each of whom have a veto on any reform...so how likely is this reform everyone keeps talking about?

Thats democracy for you!

quinsforever wrote:and therefore.

OUT.

and i do think it may actually happen. the increasingly desperate and hysterical claims and arguments mostly from REMAIN are turning off voters.

It's obvious you care about what's good for England but you might find that Northern Irish voters and Scottish voters strongly disagree with you. The SNP and Sinn Fein will then claim they have a fresh mandate to campaign for changes in the constitutional status of our countries. Will the instability and fractionalism of a decade of potential referendums and border polls be good for the UK? I can even see devolved governments going against Westminster and all kinds of messy back channels to Brussels and politicking opening up. All sorts of leverage for the EU to use to screw a Brexited UK over as an example to ze others.

There's little doubt that the EU has been kinder than Westminster to the Celtic countries. Brussels and London are both lovely cities in my opinion, but both are equally foreign to me. Why should I prefer rule by one to rule by the other? We get just as little influence or veto over any of them- only thing that this referendum can change for us is it'll take money out of Northern Ireland's economy, cause a massive mess regarding the border and give a big political opportunity to nationalists who care more about a fantasy Ireland than making peoples lives better. I don't want to see an already poor region get poorer, I don't want to have to go through passport control and customs every time I drive down the road to visit my family and I certainly don't want the Shinners to get a shot at an open goal that could destabilise our government.

A problem for those wishing to Remain is the Remain camps hyperbole and scaremongering. Cameron and the other clowns are probably doing more for Brexit than the Brexit camp. Those that see through this nonsense will probably doubt any of the valid points they make.

It's feels really decking dirty being on the same side as Cameron tbd. Disagree with him on everything, including whats good about the EU and bad about the EU.

I think we're drifting towards Brexit- the problem is, if David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn were backbenchers I honestly think believe would campaign for Brexit themselves. For very different reasons obviously, just as they argue we should stay for different reasons. So there's no conviction in the Remain camp. I couldn't pick the Lib Dem fella out of a lineup so where is the leadership?

It's all instinct - opinions on Europe - and where it's headed - and whether or not you are comfortable with that direction or strongly disapprove of it.  
People pretend they're listening to the 'reasoning' from both sides and that they are wanting to hear the minute details of how a Nation will operate either outside the EU on its own or inside trying to maintain a strong independent identity.

But it's all fundamentally an instinct choice.  Details won't move too many voters either one way or another.  Choices will be made on abstract gut feelings.

On Sinn Feinn - I laugh at the hypocrisy.  A 'Irish Republican' Party voting for a Federalist Europe.  Yeah, let's vote for Empire again when the common problem for Europe through the centuries is this undying 'Instinct' within European power wielders to have Empire imposed on its people.

For me I'm deeply concerned about the direction the EU is moving on and utterly appalled at the direction the UK is moving in, and while the rest of Ireland is a debt colony that has been granted limited probation shacking up with them isn't exactly pushing my buttons either.

It seems either way the referendum goes, the current status quo that has allowed this little window of stability and a fragile peace will be eventually sacrificed in the name of Scottish or English populism. Worrying times. We are truly on our own! And when you're governed by the slow learners class of British and Irish politics thats just as alarming as it sounds.

Notch wrote:It's feels really decking dirty being on the same side as Cameron tbd. Disagree with him on everything, including whats good about the EU and bad about the EU.

I think we're drifting towards Brexit- the problem is, if David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn were backbenchers I honestly think believe would campaign for Brexit themselves. For very different reasons obviously, just as they argue we should stay for different reasons. So there's no conviction in the Remain camp. I couldn't pick the Lib Dem fella out of a lineup so where is the leadership?

Cameron sees himself as the leader of Remain but his style of leadership, his spinning a doomsday narrative, is as transparent as it is condescending and ridiculing of a voting public more intelligent and politically aware than the fools he must think they are. Further undermining that leadership is the fact that the Tories are split on the issue, draining his energy into damage limitation and self-preservation.

Corbyns support of Remain won't go down well with the anti-establishment, anti-big Government, anti-Globalisation, Labour vote. He's ruling a party which was already split over its anti Semitic faction and his incompetence in not keeping that ugly truth buried. He is discredited.

There are no credible leaders as there is no standout leader that the general public can trust, even in the Party they support.

Notch wrote:For me I'm deeply concerned about the direction the EU is moving on and utterly appalled at the direction the UK is moving in, and while the rest of Ireland is a debt colony that has been granted limited probation shacking up with them isn't exactly pushing my buttons either.

It seems either way the referendum goes, the current status quo that has allowed this little window of stability and a fragile peace will be eventually sacrificed in the name of Scottish or English populism. Worrying times. We are truly on our own! And when you're governed by the slow learners class of British and Irish politics thats just as alarming as it sounds.

Who are the smart voices in Europe?  MEPs?  I'll give you some pictures and profiles of some of them... it's like a version of that show that a few might remember called EuroTrash.

Or maybe we should think that the European Commission are the ones - the better idealists than our own shabby politicians at home.  I'd still prefer the local idiots - at least I can keep my eye on them.

Where are the smart people that might 'Lead' if only the eejits left the arena?

Munchkin wrote:
There are no credible leaders as there is no standout leader that the general public can trust, even in the Party they support.

This I fear is the biggest problem. Too many weak corporate puppets, a lack of genuine conviction politics in the west right now - except right wing religious quacks.

This has been a depressing campaign from both sides, similar to the Scottish independence referendum which too amounted to both sides trying to convince people how much worse things will be if they vote the opposite direction, rather than taking a passionate stand on their own position.

Nichola Sturgen apart, the rest are a terrible shower of poor second hand car salesmen -total cretins.

Getting out is a backward step, favoured by people who have a quaint nostalgic view of a world that doesn't exist anymore. Being part of the EU is nowhere near as bad as the "little Briton" brigade pretend. I fear creeping devolution and a socialist government far more than than a few idiots in Brussels. We should remain and take every opportunity to shove two fingers up at stupid rules and veto everything that is not in our interest. The EU idiots need to have a heavy weight sceptic at the table. I find is amusing that a significant part of the UK population intend to vote for a recession and considerable uncertainty.

Agree with most of that.

With respect to rugby .... a Brexit will lead to a 20-30% lower value of sterling compared to the Euro, if we remain.

That's a 20-30% pay cut for all in the UK, including rugby players. It means that the French Top 14 and Irish provinces will be a lot more attractive for rugby players. So we'd see a restoration of French / Irish dominance in the European Cup.

Alex_Germany wrote:With respect to rugby .... a Brexit will lead to a 20-30% lower value of sterling compared to the Euro, if we remain.

That's a 20-30% pay cut for all in the UK, including rugby players. It means that the French Top 14 and Irish provinces will be a lot more attractive for rugby players. So we'd see a restoration of French / Irish dominance in the European Cup.

It's the Pro12's Fault?

SecretFly wrote:

Alex_Germany wrote:With respect to rugby .... a Brexit will lead to a 20-30% lower value of sterling compared to the Euro, if we remain.

That's a 20-30% pay cut for all in the UK, including rugby players. It means that the French Top 14 and Irish provinces will be a lot more attractive for rugby players. So we'd see a restoration of French / Irish dominance in the European Cup.

It's the Pro12's Fault?

No. Welsh and Scottish clubs would also be taking a 20-30% pay cut, compared to Irish, French and (unimportantly) Italian clubs.

Oh the Welsh would be taking a cut?? Oh that's alright then. Proceed Bre-xit

Since most of their decent players are in France, they wouldn't. Their other good player is in Northampton, so he'd be taking a cut or moving to France.

Vote Bexit the sun will cease to shine and our willies will fall off.

We've been looking for compensation from the EU for lack of sunshine for decades! Nobody wants to listen of course. Italy, Spain, France and a few others do the behind the scenes brown envelope trading and everything is settled in their favour. The sun suspicious always points their way.

Will it have an affect on rugby (from point of view of bringing in non-British players, coaches for example).

Quite possibly. Unless post-Brexit we still have free movement of people as part of some EEA type deal (which would make a lot of those that voted Brexit seriously cross) we will no longer be in the position that any EU based player can just come and play here. Clubs don't seem to struggle too much getting visas for non-EU players, but I suppose a few might find they can't get one.

Will sterling devalue so that it will be impossible for English clubs to compete with French Euro clubs

We are already at a disadvantage there - but I'm not sure direct comparison of salary is all there is to it, it's about cost of living (and quality of life) as well. I suspect players will be slightly worse off than they would be if we remain, but probably a lot of Kiwis/South Africans/Aussies etc, come here because it's a bit easier going somewhere that you already speak the language and maybe even have some family links. Given salaries for top players these days are pretty high, I'd imagine that being effectively 5-10% worse off (as a complete stab in the dark) due to changes in exchange rates/cost of living isn't something I'd envisage being a deal breaker.

What about Scotland? Will this push them out of the UK?

Quite possibly. But... it wouldn't happen straight away. Even if there were a vote to leave, there would then need to be an agreement on a new Scottish referendum, and while I'm pretty certain that would happen I suspect that would take time - possibly a few years. By the time it happened there might actually be some kind of new Britain/EU deal on the table, quite possibly a different government in Westminster and the outcome of said referendum would depend an awful lot on those.

How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

As a non-Ulster fan I can't really comment - though I would hope that any border checks would be kept to a sensible minimum given the good relations between Britain and Ireland and the fact that Ireland is also not in the Schengen Zone.

In an ideal world I'd like to see Britain leaving the EU and moving into the EEA (along with any others that don't want to be in a federal Europe), so that those countries that are in favour of a federal Europe can get on with it and sort out the current issues with a single currency but no merging of fiscal policy and resources. With the non-EU countries then having an EEA Council or similar so they can negotiate as a single unit with the EU, counterbalancing the size of the EU block and ensuring agreements between the two are fair.

But, while I like Britain and think there are lots of things we are good at, one thing we are not good at is developing and electing top notch politicians. I wouldn't trust those that would be leading any post-Brexit negotiations to organise a urine up in a brewery. I can all too easily see them approaching it with general shoutyness, sabre rattling, and an irrational unconditional belief in their nationalist ideology that would probably lead to a urine poor outcome for everyone. And on the grounds that I don't really fancy that much I'll be voting to remain. Happy to change my mind in a future referendum if it's dealt with properly by a competent government.

SecretFly wrote:We've been looking for compensation from the EU for lack of sunshine for decades!  Nobody wants to listen of course.  Italy, Spain, France and a few others do the behind the scenes brown envelope trading and everything is settled in their favour.  The sun suspicious always points their way.

The sunshine quota is completely unfair. It's just like the fish  We have just as much right to a tan as they do! I propose a sunshine tax!

Munchkin wrote:

SecretFly wrote:We've been looking for compensation from the EU for lack of sunshine for decades!  Nobody wants to listen of course.  Italy, Spain, France and a few others do the behind the scenes brown envelope trading and everything is settled in their favour.  The sun suspicious always points their way.

The sunshine quota is completely unfair. It's just like the fish  We have just as much right to a tan as they do! I propose a sunshine tax!

The sun is now a subsidary of "The Sun S.A. Properties (Luxembourg)", it will continue to be in the sky in the real world but as far as the taxman is concerned will be wholly domiciled and resident in Luxembourg.