EU exit - So folks what are you all thinking?

First topic message reminder :

Just curious to know what you all think and what way you will be voting.

Will it have an affect on rugby (from point of view of bringing in non-British players, coaches for example).
Will sterling devalue so that it will be impossible for English clubs to compete with French Euro clubs
What about Scotland? Will this push them out of the UK?
How about Ulster fans - are you looking forward to the reinstallation of the Border?

LordDowlais wrote:At first I wanted to leave because of immigration and the fact that we had somebody in Brussels, who probably did not know where my town is on a map,

The West Wales and the Valleys region, which covers 15 local authority areas, has been awarded the highest level of support from the European Union for the Structural Funds programming round 2014–2020.

The West Wales and the Valleys programmes comprise funding from two separate European Structural Funds: the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and the European Social Fund (ESF).

ERDF funds will help support the region’s continued transformation into a sustainable and competitive economy by investing in research and innovation, SME competitiveness, renewable energy and energy efficiency, connectivity and urban development. The ESF will be used to tackle poverty through sustainable employment, increase skills and tackle youth unemployment

Apparently the EU do, which is more than London probably does !

There'll be a hit to exchange rates soul and france will get more bang for their buck. Top guys likely tempted by money.

No 7&1/2 wrote:There'll be a hit to exchange rates soul and france will get more bang for their buck. Top guys likely tempted by money.

So players you wouldn't want anyway, no interest in seeing mercenaries in the English game, it's not exactly doing France any good is it?

I'd definitely prefer to see guys like Louw hughes etc etc coming here and improving the league. Fair enough if others dont.

Irish Londoner wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:At first I wanted to leave because of immigration and the fact that we had somebody in Brussels, who probably did not know where my town is on a map,

The West Wales and the Valleys region, which covers 15 local authority areas, has been awarded the highest level of support from the European Union for the Structural Funds programming round 2014–2020.

The West Wales and the Valleys programmes comprise funding from two separate European Structural Funds: the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and the European Social Fund (ESF).

ERDF funds will help support the region’s continued transformation into a sustainable and competitive economy by investing in research and innovation, SME competitiveness, renewable energy and energy efficiency, connectivity and urban development. The ESF will be used to tackle poverty through sustainable employment, increase skills and tackle youth unemployment

Apparently the EU do, which is more than London probably does !

A few years back this funding paid my salary. I was employed to use my academic know how to help support hi tech industry in this area.

I have already said this in the off topic threads. What drives me nuts about the whole process are those people supporting brexit while clinging on to lies. Those people who genuinely feel we'll be better out fine.

As for abiding by the referendum. There is no need. It was handled very badly from the start and the article 50 declaration so early on was very dumb. The country is clearly split on the subject regardless of the rights and wrongs of the ref, and going ahead now, 3 years on, with no plan and no idea doesn't make it better. At best the government had an opportunity to find a deal that would work for all of us, and they have failed. How long should they get to make it work? Look at the people pushing for it and the people against it and ask yourselves which side you'd rather be on.

Look I am not even saying that brexit should not happen, but sure as hell it should not happen like this.

Oh and by the way immigration won't change unless the jobs go, they'll just come from different countries.

Irish Londoner wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:At first I wanted to leave because of immigration and the fact that we had somebody in Brussels, who probably did not know where my town is on a map,

The West Wales and the Valleys region, which covers 15 local authority areas, has been awarded the highest level of support from the European Union for the Structural Funds programming round 2014–2020.

The West Wales and the Valleys programmes comprise funding from two separate European Structural Funds: the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and the European Social Fund (ESF).

ERDF funds will help support the region’s continued transformation into a sustainable and competitive economy by investing in research and innovation, SME competitiveness, renewable energy and energy efficiency, connectivity and urban development. The ESF will be used to tackle poverty through sustainable employment, increase skills and tackle youth unemployment

Apparently the EU do, which is more than London probably does !

Don't point out what Wales stands to lose from the EU, he'll accuse you of gloating about it!

BamBam wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:At first I wanted to leave because of immigration and the fact that we had somebody in Brussels, who probably did not know where my town is on a map,

The West Wales and the Valleys region, which covers 15 local authority areas, has been awarded the highest level of support from the European Union for the Structural Funds programming round 2014–2020.

The West Wales and the Valleys programmes comprise funding from two separate European Structural Funds: the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and the European Social Fund (ESF).

ERDF funds will help support the region’s continued transformation into a sustainable and competitive economy by investing in research and innovation, SME competitiveness, renewable energy and energy efficiency, connectivity and urban development. The ESF will be used to tackle poverty through sustainable employment, increase skills and tackle youth unemployment

Apparently the EU do, which is more than London probably does !

Don't point out what Wales stands to lose from the EU, he'll accuse you of gloating about it!

I would imagine a fair range of carpets and floor coverings are made overseas and will therefore rise in price as the pound drops in value. They may also end up attracting higher tariffs in the future. Manufacturers in the UK will face rising prices for raw materials for similar reason. Its the kind of thing that pushes margins for small businesses.

But you know, 'project fear'

Don't worry lost, BMW and Mercedes are breaking down the door to the EU commission as we speak, demanding they give us whatever we want, no chance of no deal now big bad Boris has laid down the law

In fact, Boris has personally guaranteed that all carpet moguls will pay 150% less for their floor coverings, and we all know he never lies about anything

lostinwales wrote: The country is clearly split on the subject.....

A country is always split IF it's based on democratic principles.  A country is always split even if it doesn't operate on democratic principles because then uniformity of public opinion only exists because of suppression of opposition.

A country is always split or else there is no opposition benches in yonder Parliament that is all the news these days.  The split is usually between a majority and a minority.  It's usually grumbled about but respected.

Usually.  

The trouble with this Parliament now is that you have an opposition leader ( in cahoots with ruling party rebels) demanding that the Prime Minister accepts his puppet status.  The opposition leader demands that the Prime Minister should only now function as commanded by Parliament - stay in office to be only the mouthpiece of the opposition in negotiations with Europe.

The Prime Minister says 'No, I won't be a puppet.  If you don't want me, let an election happen.'  

'No', says opposition leader, 'we will not have an election to get you out, like we're claim the majority of the public want.  You'll stay in place until you give us Brexit with a Deal, a deal you must accept from the EU whether you like it or not.  Then... THEN you can have your Election.  And then we might campaign against the deal we forced you to sign.  We haven't made our minds up on that yet but it proves we're the only party fit for government!!!!!!'

And they say Tellytubbies was a little wacky on the queasy side.

LondonTiger wrote:

(well not trusting any Brits and provocative Irish)

Hmmm... provocative Irish + Brexit.  

Wonder who that might be referring to?  

SecretFly wrote:

lostinwales wrote: The country is clearly split on the subject.....

A country is always split IF it's based on democratic principles.  A country is always split even if it doesn't operate on democratic principles because then uniformity of public opinion only exists because of suppression of opposition.

Evenly split. There was (however it was manufactured) a small bias towards leave in an advisory referendum. The point about having to have a supernumary result for something which requires major constitutional change is that its the only chance you have of someone getting enough momentum behind an idea to get it done. Nobody is united on what Brexit should be.

The delay in the GE is perfectly understandable. Its about limiting the power of the PM to force through something which will be bad for the country, and something for which the country is not prepared.

Of course if the man can produce a unicorn from a hat and get a deal accepted by the EU and through parliament then all this goes away. There is no chance of this

That's only your opinion.  Leavers believe differently...[ "bad for the country"] You said it yourself, nobody is united.  Repeat my earlier post.  In a functioning democracy, unity of purpose is actually rare.

Irish? I thought he was Welsh

SecretFly wrote:That's only your opinion.  Leavers believe differently...[ "bad for the country"] You said it yourself, nobody is united.  Repeat my earlier post.  In a functioning democracy, unity of purpose is actually rare.

You are right about beliefs, but a no deal Brexit really is bad for everybody, well everybody except for the hedge funds leaning on Boris to make it happen. I'd also argue that our democracy is struggling to function right now - and that Boris seems to be the one trying to stop it functioning at all.

lostinwales wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That's only your opinion.  Leavers believe differently...[ "bad for the country"] You said it yourself, nobody is united.  Repeat my earlier post.  In a functioning democracy, unity of purpose is actually rare.

You are right about beliefs, but a no deal Brexit really is bad for everybody, well everybody except for the hedge funds leaning on Boris to make it happen. I'd also argue that our democracy is struggling to function right now - and that Boris seems to be the one trying to stop it functioning at all.

If you were Prime Minister, would you say "Sorry, from now on we'll do things your way," to the Leader of the opposition?

I never would.

An election is the only moral stance for the Parliament to regain composure and more fully reflect the will of the people, methinks.

SecretFly wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That's only your opinion.  Leavers believe differently...[ "bad for the country"] You said it yourself, nobody is united.  Repeat my earlier post.  In a functioning democracy, unity of purpose is actually rare.

You are right about beliefs, but a no deal Brexit really is bad for everybody, well everybody except for the hedge funds leaning on Boris to make it happen. I'd also argue that our democracy is struggling to function right now - and that Boris seems to be the one trying to stop it functioning at all.

If you were Prime Minister, would you say "Sorry, from now on we'll do things your way," to the Leader of the opposition?

I never would.

An election is the only moral stance for the Parliament to regain composure and more fully reflect the will of the people, methinks.

No but he could be a little honest and a little conciliatory. Or he could resign. Instead he's going full out 'enemy of the people' populist BS. The kind of BS that actually gets people killed. There is nobody else to blame for this current situation than Boris and his advisers.

SecretFly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

(well not trusting any Brits and provocative Irish)

Hmmm... provocative Irish + Brexit.  

Wonder who that might be referring to?  

No you are not. Wondering that is. You know and delight in being a little poopie stirrer - and I would not want you to change. 

A lot of fuss about nothing. At the end of the day its just a trade deal, other trade deals are available.

SecretFly wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

SecretFly wrote:That's only your opinion.  Leavers believe differently...[ "bad for the country"] You said it yourself, nobody is united.  Repeat my earlier post.  In a functioning democracy, unity of purpose is actually rare.

You are right about beliefs, but a no deal Brexit really is bad for everybody, well everybody except for the hedge funds leaning on Boris to make it happen. I'd also argue that our democracy is struggling to function right now - and that Boris seems to be the one trying to stop it functioning at all.

If you were Prime Minister, would you say "Sorry, from now on we'll do things your way," to the Leader of the opposition?

I never would.

An election is the only moral stance for the Parliament to regain composure and more fully reflect the will of the people, methinks.

Problem with an election is it should be fought on more than a single issue. The only way for the "will of the people" to have been reflected would be a confirmatory referendum on the deal. Despite being an avowed remainer, I disagree with the people who saying that any such referendum should be "Deal" v "Remain". Despite "No Deal" never being mentioned during teh 2016 campaign it should be an option on a referendum either just against "Deal" or all three with a Single Transferable Vote. Why I believe that "Remain " shoudl stay on the table is because the lies of the Leave campaign have become much more apparent to the general populace.

It should also be remembered that any election campaign starting from now on will not finish till after 31/10, so should one be called we would stumble out on 31/10 with no deal.

However I still believe we will leave on 31/10 with no deal as the most likely option. Not because Boris does not want a deal. Hell Boris did not want Leave to actually win the referendum. We will stagger out because Boris believes it is the best way in staying in his job. He prefers that over what he thinks is right.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Irish? I thought he was Welsh

LD is

Fly is (one of) the Irish referred to by LT

TightHEAD wrote:A lot of fuss about nothing. At the end of the day its just a trade deal, other trade deals are available.

It is far more than just a trade deal. It is the seamless nature of the movement of goods and services meaning we have seen huge boosts to our economy. It is the inward investment we attracted from countries outside the EU that allowed them to trade easier with the EU. Any replacement deals with the rest of the world will not have that same seamless nature and based on progress of other trade deals around the world could be a decade in the agreeing.

SecretFly wrote:
The trouble with this Parliament now is that you have an opposition leader ( in cahoots with ruling party rebels) demanding that the Prime Minister accepts his puppet status.  The opposition leader demands that the Prime Minister should only now function as commanded by Parliament - stay in office to be only the mouthpiece of the opposition in negotiations with Europe.

The Prime Minister says 'No, I won't be a puppet.  If you don't want me, let an election happen.'  

'No', says opposition leader, 'we will not have an election to get you out, like we're claim the majority of the public want.  You'll stay in place until you give us Brexit with a Deal, a deal you must accept from the EU whether you like it or not.  Then... THEN you can have your Election.  And then we might campaign against the deal we forced you to sign.  We haven't made our minds up on that yet but it proves we're the only party fit for government!!!!!!'

Got to disagree with you here. The opposition aren't giving him his election until no deal is ruled out completely, the Benn Act compelling the government to ask the EU for an extension is the current vehicle for this.

Johnson and Cummings being the slimy serpents that they are, no one trusts them not to just hold an election after 31 October once we've already crashed out - there is nothing stopping the PM doing that once MPs vote for an election, and we will have left without a deal.

Corbyn has already said he'll support an election motion once an extension has been agreed. The problem is that Cummings seems to think he's got a way around the Benn Act, so hopefully its as watertight as can be

TightHEAD wrote:A lot of fuss about nothing. At the end of the day its just a trade deal, other trade deals are available.

No deal means we have no trade deals - all need to be negotiated from "scratch", or whatever you want to call Liam Fox's work over the last few years

Incidentally, the only other country that would be in that position on 1 November is the global economic powerhouse that is Mauritiana

In 10 years time no one will remember what Brexit was all about.

TightHEAD wrote:In 10 years time no one will remember what Brexit was all about.

I will.  And I'll still insist the TMO chickened out and should have stood his ground against the ref.  World Rugby have a sin to answer for for what they let happen to the lad Brexit, just on his way in for try!  

TightHEAD wrote:In 10 years time no one will remember what Brexit was all about.

Hopefully because it'll get canned and all the angry gammon will find a new bogeyman

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:In 10 years time no one will remember what Brexit was all about.

I will.  And I'll still insist the TMO chickened out and should have stood his ground against the ref.  World Rugby have a sin to answer for for what they let happen to the lad Brexit, just on his way in for try!  

Poor Brexit. Half the time its his own team trying to trip him up

TightHEAD wrote:In 10 years time no one will remember what Brexit was all about.

In 10 years time nobody will admit to voting for it.

I really hate the term Gammon, the left really should rise above the losers who use words and terms to referrer to other people different than them.

Surely Gammon is a derogatory term?

You dont like Dickens?

Sounds like Humbug to me.

TightHEAD wrote:I really hate the term Gammon, the left really should rise above the losers who use words and terms to referrer to other people different than them.

Surely Gammon is a derogatory term?  

Depends how you feel about pork. And it's a lot easier than typing pink faced angry bald fat man.

In all honesty I don't like the term or how it is used, but it is fairly tame.

Gammon is a state of mind rather than a physical description

Male / female / tall / short / fat / thin / ugly / pink / black / brown / blue / orange - all can be gammon

BamBam wrote:

Got to disagree with you here. The opposition aren't giving him his election until no deal is ruled out completely, the Benn Act compelling the government to ask the EU for an extension is the current vehicle for this.

And is it or not true, Bam, that PM is the one that decides to ask for an extension but the EU gets to decide how long?  I think it's in their court how long they decide to give.  
So.... the EU could decide another 3 years of negotiations are needed...or another 5?  The EU is back in the driving seat, deciding when and IF the UK actually Leave as their people voted to?  That should go down well with leavers and bring a new sense of calm to proceedings - especially in the lead in to an election that will be expressly about Brexit.

Just as parties have promised to campaign on burning Article 50 (a legal process) so too could parties campaign to ignore, disown, disavow any agreements with the EU that were made under duress to get a UK election sanctioned. Mandates given. New Acts of Parliament etc, etc, etc.

Nope you're wrong. UK have always been able to decide when to leave. As with a lot of leave statements it's how shall we say....wrong.

Doubt we will leave though as the only way out to gain a majority in parliament is to tie any with a vote from the public. It will then be declined.

No Fly, it has to be bilateral - if the EU decides on an extension to a date other than 31 Jan 2020, the government asks Parliament whether they approve or reject that date

https://fullfact.org/europe/EU-cannot-unilaterally-extend-brexit-date/

I guess there is the possibility that the EU asks for a 10 year extension or no extension, but given the current tone of their negotiators and the big EU nations, personally I can't see it.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt we will leave though as the only way out to gain a majority in parliament is to tie any with a vote from the public. It will then be declined.

Except if we either do not ask for an extension, ask and are declined or withdraw article 50 then the default option is we are out on 31/10.

lostinwales wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:In 10 years time no one will remember what Brexit was all about.

In 10 years time nobody will admit to voting for it.

In 10 years time we'll be two years away from the world ending. I'll be celebrating by cooking up some real beef burgers on my coal burning homemade barbecue.

Really, why all the fuss about Brexit when everything is ending in 12 years? Enjoy the carbon whilst it lasts.

World is only going to end when the sun goes supernova. Everything else just makes it a sh!tier place to live in.

lostinwales wrote:World is only going to end when the sun goes supernova. Everything else just makes it a sh!tier place to live in.

Blame the sun.

SecretFly wrote:

lostinwales wrote:World is only going to end when the sun goes supernova. Everything else just makes it a sh!tier place to live in.

Blame the sun.

Murdoch is to blame for most things, why not add one more

Snowflakes always blame the Sun.

The S#%

Soul Requiem wrote:Snowflakes always blame the Sun.

Leave Gammon in the sun for too long and it rots

lostinwales wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Snowflakes always blame the Sun.

Leave Gammon in the sun for too long and it rots

Cook it right and it tastes delicious, a snowflake will always melt away into disappointment.

Soul Requiem wrote:

lostinwales wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:Snowflakes always blame the Sun.

Leave Gammon in the sun for too long and it rots

Cook it right and it tastes delicious, a snowflake will always melt away into disappointment.

If you have any support for the Sun, that says a lot about you. And using the term snowflake seriously.

I think Dolph you've missed the point as always.

Soul Requiem wrote:I think Dolph you've missed the point as always.

Genuinely not used to you having a sense of humour, I actually thought you liked The Sun. Obviously I should have picked it up, you aren't the type to be contentious and insulting on here. Could have politely explained that