French Open Day 15: Can Handy Andy Make a Joke out of the Djoker?

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http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/scores/schedule/

Andy Murray vs Novak Djokovic - both for first French Open win

yeah! make him serve him out properly i.e. at 5-4 rather than 5-2, that's what I wanted to see.

Ok Andy, if ever you are going to play a flawless return game it's this one.

Clammy hands time of you're Novak. Would be a huge mental blow if Andy can break one more time.

Does Andy go for broke or make Novak play?

Come on Murray make this interesting.

Just can't miss that.

Why not crush that one down the line?

Djokovic has dealt with anything around the net so well today

Oh you are kidding me - dreadful dreadful shot.

Tight, tight, tight!

Ha ha.  Okay this game at least is interesting.  Deuce.

Another match point.

Taken.

Well done Djokovic.

Where was that effort showed during the last three games from Murray. I think the problem with Murray perhaps is that he tends not to break the play down into individual points, point by point. He seems to get caught up into patterns of play.

Well played Novak. Superb display. Deserves to hold all four slams.

Congratulations to Novak Djokovic on completing a career slam. Well deserved.

Andy will be frustrated with his performance no doubt but to get here (a slam final on clay) is an achievement many thought was beyond him. Bring on the grass court season.

Well done again Novak.

Congrats to Novak - deserved. Some interesting points in there as well. Great shot cross court, deft, from inside the service box. Next point the hanging smash - decided to play it very safe, won the point.

Yup, I'm a Nadal fan (living in the increasingly likely fear that Djokovic will soon catch his 14 and even challenge Fed's 17), but I cannot begrudge the man a thing - he fully deserves this honour and it's been a pleasure to watch him go about his business today utilising a full arsenal that's been continuously developed over the years....solid serves, dropshots, touch volleys and obviously those patented baseline boomers

Commiserations Andy but it's still been an amazing clay court season

Congratulations to Djokovic.

Fantastic player. Deserving of holding the FO crown.

Well done Novak! The bandwagon keeps rolling on. Have to say that the calendar slam is well within his grasp.

Andy continues to be the nearly man, but an incredible tournament all the same and has a great shot at Wimbledon.

This is clearly not going to do any good for the mano a mano character of the Djokovic - Murray rivalry.

But this is Djokovic's fourth final at Roland Garros which suggests he has the talent for this sort of thing.  Murray just not good enough - but tremendous achievement for making the second grand slam final of the year.

Well done Novak. Fully deserved. Stepped it up after the first set and Andy dropped away quite quickly. Was hoping it would be tighter but can't complain Novak easily better today.

Well done to Novak on all his fans on here

Slightly frustrating at how poorer Andy was after the first set, but that's because this match was always on Novak's racquet and he was at his scintillating best for ninety minutes

Wonder how long it will take for the usual detractors to start denigrating Novak's achievement at a 'weakened' RG. No question that RG is easier to win with Nadal out the picture, but the reality is that Novak, like Roger, has been unlucky to have the greatest clay courter of all time blocking his path. Let's face it, if Novak had faced 'average' opposition at RG throughout his career, he would almost certainly be a multiple winner by now.

http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/scores/stats/1701ms.html

Stats wise Novak clearly ahead in W/UEs, second serve % points won, first serve % in, or even just total points won.

Aut0Gr4ph wrote:Wonder how long it will take for the usual detractors to start denigrating Novak's achievement at a 'weakened' RG. No question that RG is easier to win with Nadal out the picture, but the reality is that Novak, like Roger, has been unlucky to have the greatest clay courter of all time blocking his path. Let's face it, if Novak had faced 'average' opposition at RG throughout his career, he would almost certainly be a multiple winner by now.

All the greats have had relatively weaker opposition for at least some of their slams. Certainly Federer, with Philippoussis for his first slam, and Del Potro-Soderling for the critical RG. Rafa facing Puerta in the final of his first RG (and Federer was not at his best in the semi). Only Murray has never had an easy slam win. He pretty much has to battle one of the big three constantly.

Probably similar arguments could be made against almost anyone having had easier slam runs at some point.

Murray has to pick himself up from this disappointment and keep going. This is his tenth grand slam final and has a success rate of 20%. If getting to finals is the best he can hope for - he just needs to keep going because eventually he will get lucky or otherwise and win one or more further slams to add to his elite collection of: 1 Wimbledon, 1 US Open, 1 Olympics Gold, 1 Davis Cup.

Fair to say that the draw did open up for Novak, but he has everyone's number at the moment and would surely have risen above whatever the draw had thrown at him. World number 2 and multiple slam winner is hardly a gimme in the final either. There have been plenty of weaker slam final opponents over the years.

Quite possible at the moment that Djokovic beats Murray in all four major finals this season. They look ahead of the rest. Of course Fed may have something to say about this on the quicker courts.

Djokovic may relax and ease off now opening up Wimbledon for Murray? Or relax and play with even more freedom making him even harder to beat?

Is it really a compliment for Novak to tell Andy it's 'a pleasure' to play against him? Hopefully, Andy can become more irritating come Wimbledon.

I think this is the last final Andy makes. I kind of hope it is. Hell get the usual slagging off from here at some point im sure, which is hard to take yet again. Really dont want to see him in another

Does Andy have guaranteed number 2 seeding for Wimbledon now? I know that Federer will benefit from the special formula, but assuming this won't be enough to overturn Murray's current points lead.

Hes absolutely miles ahead, probably over 2000. It wont matter, but hes no 2

temporary21 wrote:I think this is the last final Andy makes. I kind of hope it is. Hell get the usual slagging off from here at some point im sure, which is hard to take yet again. Really dont want to see him in another

Nah don't agree. People can criticise as much as they want but the fact he gets to the finals shows his ability. Just has to keep trying and I feel he will win another sometime.

temporary21 wrote:I think this is the last final Andy makes. I kind of hope it is. Hell get the usual slagging off from here at some point im sure, which is hard to take yet again. Really dont want to see him in another

We all want to see new blood, but it seems ridiculous to write-off Andy in this way. If and when Novak slips up, Andy looks far and away the most likely to capitalise. Also, who cares about the slagging off? I find it amusing, particularly the desperate attempts to undermine Novak as he approaches the records of exalted others.

temporary21 wrote:I think this is the last final Andy makes. I kind of hope it is. Hell get the usual slagging off from here at some point im sure, which is hard to take yet again. Really dont want to see him in another

I doubt that. He's just made the final on his worst surface. Novak isn't going to be able to play like today against him at Wimbledon and Andy can't possibly serve that badly again. I'd have liked him to push him closer but with the quick courts coming up, a run to the final here is only a good thing.

Murray is a better grass court player than he is clay. I expect to see them both in the Wimbledon final, which I give Murray a much better chance in.

Djokovic has been desperate for RG for so long now, he may slack off a little which would allow Murray in.

No way will he not make another final, I'd be very surprised if he doesn't win at least one more before he retires.

4 of the last 4 slams
5 of the last 6
7 of the last 8
6 finals in a row
9 SF or better in a row (almost 24 but for losing one QF 9-7 in the 5th)
28 QF or better in a row

4 slams in a row, only Rod Laver and Don Budge have achieved this I believe. Don Budge achieved 6 in a row and Novak could try to emulate that now.
Win Wimbledon = first person to win 5 in a row since Budge 1938.

Congrats to Djoko for this historic achievement.

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with Murray's performance, esp after having the momentum from winning the first set. Wrong strategy perhaps - if its Fedal or Djoko, after winning the first set, they would press on to try winning the second set at least to have a two sets advantage.

Djoko would definitely up his level in the second set after losing the first, so its important for Murray to try maintaining his own intensity and pressed on, at least kept the second set close and cast some doubts in Djoko's head. Instead, Murray just went flat and allowed Djoko to fight back to win the second set comfortably. Such is the pattern each time Murray plays against Djoko, and so often Djoko beats him.

Murray just isnt in the same class as Fedal and Djoko, hence his 20% success rate in slam finals.

For my money (and this my be wrong thread) but this puts Djokovic above Nadal in the GOAT list.

14>12.

But four in a row, plus weeks at no 1, year-end finals etc. The 'nole-slam' element is massive, imo.

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Congrats to Djoko for this historic achievement.

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with Murray's performance, esp after having the momentum from winning the first set. Wrong strategy perhaps - if its Fedal or Djoko, after winning the first set, they would press on to try winning the second set at least to have a two sets advantage.

Djoko would definitely up his level in the second set after losing the first, so its important for Murray to try maintaining his own intensity and pressed on, at least kept the second set close and cast some doubts in Djoko's head.  Instead, Murray just went flat and allowed Djoko to fight back to win the second set comfortably. Such is the pattern each time Murray plays against Djoko, and so often Djoko beats him.

Murray just isnt in the same class as Fedal and Djoko, hence his 20% success rate in slam finals.

Agree with a lot of this BLB. Definitely seemed to go a lot more passive after losing serve at the beginning of the second set and his first serve stats dropped dramatically. Neither of these are recommended if you want to beat Djokovic (or Federer or Nadal).

Before the match I remember Petchey interviewing Murray saying Roddick had said that Murray has the highest tennis IQ in the game. Very strong statement. Frustrating really for a player so well regarded not to be able to apply that into a winning performance against Djokovic.

Still plenty of opportunity for Murray to add more Slams.

Guest82 wrote:For my money (and this my be wrong thread) but this puts Djokovic above Nadal in the GOAT list.

14>12.

But four in a row, plus weeks at no 1, year-end finals etc.   The 'nole-slam' element is massive, imo.

I agree Nadal's spot and Sampras has been supplanted in the Goat derby, he is now Laverovic

Guest82 wrote:For my money (and this my be wrong thread) but this puts Djokovic above Nadal in the GOAT list.

14>12.

But four in a row, plus weeks at no 1, year-end finals etc.   The 'nole-slam' element is massive, imo.

I think you missed the conclusion of one of the previous threads on GOATHOOD where it was decreed that all GOAT debate was just beating a dead donkey ... that we now live in a post-GOAT Enlightenment Era where all talk of GOATs has been consigned to the flames. There exist only periods of time and a developing narrative of the sport. For example Nadal in his pre injury hey day was a force from the loins of Thor, the master of the clay and later conqueror of the grass and the hard courts that had been the preserve of the Federman from Mt Swiss Cheese where Zeus in the guise of a titanic Bull did lay with the water nymph of Limanos. But the Iberian youth had sold his body to the devil and Beelzebub did send out his horses of the apocalypse onto the poor Nadal and did his knees in. A favourite of Aphrodite, she sent out the twin cherubims of the PRP and Gene Therapies to rescue him but alas Hades on finding this out did choke on his pomegranates and sent out Cerberus to attack the Adonis and the rest as they say is history.

Well done to Novak...a bit wobbly at the end but he got over the line.

Murray looked a bit pooped towards the end of Set2 onwards tbh.

He seemed to run out if both ideas and energy in Set2 and never got back on the wagon again.

Still, he lost to a GOAT candidate so no disgrace...and he's even pretty fluent in French too!

I'm back.

Have I missed anything?

HM Murdock wrote:I'm back.

Have I missed anything?

We've all come out the wardrobe and had a massive orgy.

Danny_1982 wrote:

HM Murdock wrote:I'm back.

Have I missed anything?

We've all come out the wardrobe and had a massive orgy.

I always miss the good stuff!

I'm still working my way through the match but I just wanted to say commiserations to to the Andy fans.

As ever, your comments are very gracious despite the frustration you must be feeling.

If it's any consolation, I think he's in a great place for an assault on Wimbledon.

Great achievement by Novak and some splendid tennis during most of the game. Shame that Andy didn't keep the level he showed during the 1st set.
I fully expect Novak to remain motivated as if he can get the next 2 slams he will really make sport history.

HM Murdock wrote:I'm still working my way through the match but I just wanted to say commiserations to to the Andy fans.

As ever, your comments are very gracious despite the frustration you must be feeling.

If it's any consolation, I think he's in a great place for an assault on Wimbledon.

Yes plus one Murray fans have always been gracious despite all the painful losses to Novak they never went rogue that should be commended. I agree he has a great chance at Wimbeldon and in any other period we are looking at a 6-8 slam champ in Murray

Congrats Novak, well done. I did not get to see the match but it looks like it was not a nail-biting classic anyway.

Novak's resume now looks pretty impressive, and with four consecutive slam wins he now has something to make him stand apart, so that is also really good for him.

Andy also did better this clay court season than most would have predicted before it started, so that is overall a plus, in spite of a somewhat one-sided scoreline today.

Great effort by Djoko to hold all four GS titles at once and, of course, the CY GS is very much on. It could be argued he's got over his biggest obstacle - the French - and that he should do it.
But it's still going to be a tall order - just ask Serena who got a very, very long way towards it last year but stumbled at the (semi) final hurdle.
Djoko is now right up there with the tennis immortals and will remain there whether he gets the CY GS or not.
Fed's weeks at the top record must now be in danger as well as his 237 successive weeks at number one record. Also there will now be speculation as to just how many Slams Novak can get. Anyone prepared to say 18?