Leicester Tigers 2016/17 thread.

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :

2016/17:
Director of Rugby: Richard Cockerill
Head Coach: Aaron Mauger
Assistant Backs Coach: Geordan Murphy
Assistant Forward Coach: Richard Blaze
Defence and Scrum Half Coach: Scott Hansen
Head of Rugby Operations: Ged Glynn
Team manager: Matt Cornwall

2016/17 Senior Squad: (Confirmed So Far) (Blue = EQP)
Hookers: Bateman, McGuigan, Thacker, Youngs
Props: Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara Cilliers, Cole, Genge, Mulipola, Rizzo
Locks: Barrow, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
Back Row: Croft, Fonua, Hamilton McCaffrey, O'Connor, Williams
Scrum Half: Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
Fly Half: Burns, Williams
Centre: Catchpole, Roberts, Smith, Toomua, Tuilagi
Back 3: Betham, Brady, Pieterson, Tait, Thompstone, Veainu
Squad number: 37, EQP: 24, Academy products: 8

Transfers
IN: (7)
McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons), Cilliers (Montpelier), Genge (Bristol), Hamilton (Agen), Toomua (ACT Brumbies). JP Pieterson (Sharks), Brady (Sale)

OUT: (12)
Ghiraldini (Toulouse), Pasquali (Treviso), De Chaves (London Irish), Crane (Bristol), Pearce (Sale), Bell (London Irish), Baikeinuku (retirement), De Villiers (Retirement), Benjamin (retirement), Morris (N/A), Camacho (N/A), Goneva (Newcastle Falcons)

Not Sure: (No official confirmation of leaving or Staying) 3
Aguero, Sio Loamanu,

Rumours:
Harry Wells (Bedford) Lock/6

2016/17 Development Squad: (15)
Bryant, Evans, Hills, Lewis, Mahoney, Maksymiw, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Owen, Simmons, Thacker, Tuilagi, White, Worth, Yawayawa

Transfer
IN: (7)
Lewis, Mahoney, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Simmons, White, Yawayawa

OUT: 11
Odogwu (sale), Beckett (Glous), Povoas (Coventry), Tresidder (Rotherham Titans), Douglas, Farnworth, Galletly, Hogan, Murrin, Nairn, Priestley-Nangle.


Academy
Academy Head Coach/forwards Coach: Brett Deacon
Academy Backs Coach: Anthony Allen

[king_carlos]

Tigers: 15 Mathew Tait (c); 14 Tom Brady, 13 Jack Roberts, 12 Matt Smith, 11 George Catchpole; 10 Owen Williams, 9 Jono Kitto; 1 Michele Rizzo, 2 Harry Thacker, 3 Fraser Balmain; 4 Harry Wells, 5 Dom Barrow; 6 Tom Croft, 7 Will Evans, 8 Luke Hamilton. Replacements: 16 George McGuigan, 17 Riccardo Brugnara, 18 Ben Betts, 19 Joe Maksymiw, 20 Will Owen, 21 Ben White, 22 George Worth, 23 Charlie Thacker.

A side indicative of the club, coaches, players and supporters desperately needing a win. Let's hope they come through!

Great to see Catchpole, Barrow, Croft and Rizzo return. Balmain getting back into a match day squad too.

Ben Betts gets a deserved spot on the bench, as does Ben White. Will Owen seeing some first team action as well.

[formerly known as Sam]

It's about as adventurous as we dare. Mauger doesn't want to see Saints win at WR given his tenuous position. 

Saints have named an experienced side, including a heavily imported back division. It's a shame they aren't looking at their academy outside of 10 and 12 as they've had some good options come through in recent years, wouldn't like to see that stopped because Mallinder is under pressure.

[formerly known as Sam]

Also I'm really disappointed to see Tait starting over Worth. What's the point?

[nathan]

To try and play him into some form.

[formerly known as Sam]

As opposed to develop a young player who could be a Tiger for the next decade or so? Tait should be off this summer and hasn't been closed to his best for some time.

[king_carlos]

Given the injuries it's actually the kind of side I've been whining about us needing to pick for a couple of seasons now.

So often our academy grads are thrown out in threadbare change sides and asked to show what they've got whilst being dominated physically.

Wells will have a much better chance of proving himself with Barrow next to him and decent front row to play behind. The same for Catchpole playing in a more experience back line.

I'd have started Worth over Tait.

[Exiledinborders]

So we are spending right up to the cap then....

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers/story-30083396-detail/story.html

If you are you are wasting your money. To be honest other than a fit Tuilagi and Cole I cannot think of another player who I would call top class.

Ben Youngs, England's player of the autumn. Matt Toomua the Australian international 10/12.

I think the problem is some players signed good contracts at peak and are now far from that level, e.g. Tom Youngs, Tait and BOC.

Not sure I agree about Ben Youngs being the player of the series in the autumn. I certainly question if he plays the same week in week out for the Tigers.

Toomua strikes me as one of those players who pundits say is special (mainly because other pundits say the same) but no one can actually remember them playing a good game.

[formerly known as Sam]

So we are spending right up to the cap then....

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers/story-30083396-detail/story.html

If you are you are wasting your money. To be honest other than a fit Tuilagi and Cole I cannot think of another player who I would call top class.

Ben Youngs, England's player of the autumn. Matt Toomua the Australian international 10/12.

I think the problem is some players signed good contracts at peak and are now far from that level, e.g. Tom Youngs, Tait and BOC.

Not sure I agree about Ben Youngs being the player of the series in the autumn. I certainly question if he plays the same week in week out for the Tigers.

Toomua strikes me as one of those players who pundits say is special (mainly because other pundits say the same) but no one can actually remember them playing a good game.

Ben was excellent for England. Kicks were contestable, controlled the tempo and gave good service. He's struggled to do all three of those things for Tigers.

I struggle to think of a game where Toomua has played badly. He's not a show piece player he gets a backline ticking and he tackles hard. I remember him slicing through the England midfield a bit in the summer though so I hope to see some of that next season.

[doctor_grey]

So we are spending right up to the cap then....

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/leicester-tigers/story-30083396-detail/story.html

If you are you are wasting your money. To be honest other than a fit Tuilagi and Cole I cannot think of another player who I would call top class.

Ben Youngs, England's player of the autumn. Matt Toomua the Australian international 10/12.

I think the problem is some players signed good contracts at peak and are now far from that level, e.g. Tom Youngs, Tait and BOC.

Not sure I agree about Ben Youngs being the player of the series in the autumn. I certainly question if he plays the same week in week out for the Tigers.

Toomua strikes me as one of those players who pundits say is special (mainly because other pundits say the same) but no one can actually remember them playing a good game.

Ben was excellent for England. Kicks were contestable, controlled the tempo and gave good service. He's struggled to do all three of those things for Tigers.

I struggle to think of a game where Toomua has played badly. He's not a show piece player he gets a backline ticking and he tackles hard. I remember him slicing through the England midfield a bit in the summer though so I hope to see some of that next season.

Agree in general. Doesn't really matter if Youngs was the best England player in the autumn. He was, and is, very good, as was most of the rest of the squad. I think Toomua is a good player and when healthy will help Tigers significantly.

On another subject, I was thinking the other day about the overall uselessness of the Anglo-Welsh thing. But then a Leicester-Northampton match comes up and I get more interested. I guess there really is something about playing you evil dudes which gets the blood pumping. My old man and my uncle will be there and I estimate I will receive at least a dozen texts, most which will start with "Stupid f**king Saints", "f**king idiot Refs", or "Cheating f**king Tigers". And, to think, before he retired he was at the Foreign Office and represented Britain internationally. Of course, these were mostly in conflict situations............

[SirBurger]

Just chipping in here but I really think Toomua is one of the most underrated backs in the game. He combines those really rare qualities of being very physical in attack and defence but also possessing some very subtle touches. I would go so far as to say that in a post Nonu game and assuming he is fully fit and firing he could be pushing for the best 12 in the world.

[Scottrf]

Tigers Saints not televised?

[Sgt_Pooly]

[quote="SirBurger"]Just chipping in here but I really think Toomua is one of the most underrated backs in the game. He combines those really rare qualities of being very physical in attack and defence  but also possessing some very subtle touches. I would go so far as to say that in a post Nonu game and assuming he is fully fit and firing he could be pushing for the best 12 in the world. [/quote]

I can see what you mean SB, but it's been a while since Toomua was at those levels, possibly 2/3 years ago? He's struggled to get in a mis-functioning Aus XV and just hasn't looked to be fully on form for a long time now. I agree a few years back he was very good and has a good mixture of skill-sets that you don't often find.

[nathan]

I thought he looked pretty good against england

[formerly known as Sam]

I remember him slicing through the England defence a few times. We really won that series up front with a more aggressive pack allowing Ford to control things. There was a lot of talent in the Australian backline that was only sporadically involved.

How are we doing today I'm down London so only have the Tigers twitter for details.

[eirebilly]

The Tigers have been very solid Sam, excellent try before half time with some wonderful offloading.

What worries me is that The Saints are looking good out there and I feel that one try might lead to two for them.

[nathan]

Thankfully we held on.

[formerly known as Sam]

Looked a good result for the Tigers. Several first team debuts and some returning from injury at a very handy time (Crofty might not be international standard anymore but I hope he can still improve our squad on match day).

With Saints backline they were always likely to be dangerous. They had a good number of front line players as well, never going to just roll over. Happy with the result, hopefully eliminate a little pressure and give the boys some confidence.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Looked a good result for the Tigers. Several first team debuts and some returning from injury at a very handy time (Crofty might not be international standard anymore but I hope he can still improve our squad on match day).

With Saints backline they were always likely to be dangerous. They had a good number of front line players as well, never going to just roll over. Happy with the result, hopefully eliminate a little pressure and give the boys some confidence.

Not sure I can quite agree there, Brookes, Day, Mallinder and Pisi would be the only starters from the regular starting XV with Kessel, Tuala and Gibson on the bench. Saints bench had A. Waller and Hill who would be in a match day squad, maybe Dickinson, but only as 2nd Row cover. Tigers probably had a few more regular squad members in the 23.

Tigers pulverised us at the breakdown, never seen Saints so sloppy or so butter fingered, lost count of the knock ons. Still they did look dangerous when they could keep ball in hand, would have been a nail biting finish if they had been able to keep control a bit earlier in the game rather than giving the ball away as a late Xmas present to Tigers all the time.

[Welly]

Saints had more 1/2 choices player than Tigers in the 23, and also about half the academy products.

Rizzo - 3rd choice
Thacker - 2nd choice
Balmain - 5th choice
Barrow - for me 2nd choice
Wells - 5th choice
Croft - 2nd choice
Evans - 2nd choice
Hamilton - 1st/2nd
Kitto - 3rd choice
Williams - 2nd choice
Catchpole - 6th choice
Smith - 3rd choice
Roberts - 3rd choice
Brady - 5th choice
Tait - 2nd choice
McGuigan - 3rd choice
Brugnara - 4th choice
Betts - 6th choice
Mykmsiw - 7th choice
Owen - 5th choice
White - 4th choice
Worth - 3rd choice 15/10

Also saints friends telling me Estelle would get into there match day squad currently.
Thacker - around 5th choice.

[formerly known as Sam]

Looked a good result for the Tigers. Several first team debuts and some returning from injury at a very handy time (Crofty might not be international standard anymore but I hope he can still improve our squad on match day).

With Saints backline they were always likely to be dangerous. They had a good number of front line players as well, never going to just roll over. Happy with the result, hopefully eliminate a little pressure and give the boys some confidence.

Not sure I can quite agree there, Brookes, Day, Mallinder and Pisi would be the only starters from the regular starting XV with Kessel, Tuala and Gibson on the bench. Saints bench had A. Waller and Hill who would be in a match day squad, maybe Dickinson, but only as 2nd Row cover. Tigers probably had a few more regular squad members in the 23.

Tigers pulverised us at the breakdown, never seen Saints so sloppy or so butter fingered, lost count of the knock ons. Still they did look dangerous when they could keep ball in hand, would have been a nail biting finish if they had been able to keep control a bit earlier in the game rather than giving the ball away as a late Xmas present to Tigers all the time.

I meant only that it wasn't a bunch of kids for Saints and they sent some experience to add steel to the pack. I wasn't expecting that side to just roll over when we went ahead. I thought the teams were fairly even (Brookes and then Hill should have given Saints a nudge in the scrum though).

[Scottrf]

Pathetic that we couldn't dominate the scrum tbh.

[formerly known as Sam]

I was surprised when I heard the reports of Tigers being on top there (haven't seen the game). Rizzo whilst experienced has never come across as a destructive scrummager and Balmain is good at keeping things stable. The Thacker bashers on the offy (don't like small players in the pack) have had to find something else to moan about instead, which is amusing. 

News on the Evans injury will be about soon. Hope it's not serious, did it look bad?

[Geordie]

Saints had more 1/2 choices player than Tigers in the 23, and also about half the academy products.

Rizzo - 3rd choice
Thacker - 2nd choice
Balmain - 5th choice
Barrow - for me 2nd choice
Wells - 5th choice
Croft - 2nd choice
Evans - 2nd choice
Hamilton - 1st/2nd
Kitto - 3rd choice
Williams - 2nd choice
Catchpole - 6th choice
Smith - 3rd choice
Roberts - 3rd choice
Brady - 5th choice
Tait - 2nd choice
McGuigan - 3rd choice
Brugnara - 4th choice
Betts - 6th choice
Mykmsiw - 7th choice
Owen - 5th choice
White - 4th choice
Worth - 3rd choice 15/10

Also saints friends telling me Estelle would get into there match day squad currently.
Thacker - around 5th choice.

How do you pronounce that!!!

[king_carlos]

Saints had more 1/2 choices player than Tigers in the 23, and also about half the academy products.

Rizzo - 3rd choice
Thacker - 2nd choice
Balmain - 5th choice
Barrow - for me 2nd choice
Wells - 5th choice
Croft - 2nd choice
Evans - 2nd choice
Hamilton - 1st/2nd
Kitto - 3rd choice
Williams - 2nd choice
Catchpole - 6th choice
Smith - 3rd choice
Roberts - 3rd choice
Brady - 5th choice
Tait - 2nd choice
McGuigan - 3rd choice
Brugnara - 4th choice
Betts - 6th choice
Mykmsiw - 7th choice
Owen - 5th choice
White - 4th choice
Worth - 3rd choice 15/10

Also saints friends telling me Estelle would get into there match day squad currently.
Thacker - around 5th choice.

How do you pronounce that!!!

It's Joe Maksymiw, although you routinely see many different spellings! And we try not to ask 

[Welly]

I was surprised when I heard the reports of Tigers being on top there (haven't seen the game). Rizzo whilst experienced has never come across as a destructive scrummager and Balmain is good at keeping things stable. The Thacker bashers on the offy (don't like small players in the pack) have had to find something else to moan about instead, which is amusing. 

News on the Evans injury will be about soon. Hope it's not serious, did it look bad?

Evans injury not as bad as first looked apprently.

Rizzo side seemed to be the stronger of the to which is brilliant considering he was against Brookes.

[king_carlos]

Rizzo returned strongly. Especially considering he hasn't played since 2015. His scrummaging was solid as ever which is the most important thing we need from him.

Marler being fit for England will give us Genge during the 6 Nations as well.

The two of them being available takes pressure off needing Marcos back ASAP.

It was good to see Catchpole once again play well too, especially when he was rumoured to be out for the season. He's growing into the squad well.

I thought our line-out and maul was much stronger for Croft returning.

[Welly]

Can see Genge getting a bench spot.

[king_carlos]

I can see Mullan benching given that he was widely touted to start not long ago and Genge was added to the squad after Mullan and Catt.

I could see Genge getting a bench spot later in the tournament though given how good his form has been.

[formerly known as Sam]

Mullan would be the obvious choice but I think Jones likes his aggressive and explosive options on the bench. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Genge and Sinckler were on the bench.

[lostinwales]

Saints had more 1/2 choices player than Tigers in the 23, and also about half the academy products.

Rizzo - 3rd choice
Thacker - 2nd choice
Balmain - 5th choice
Barrow - for me 2nd choice
Wells - 5th choice
Croft - 2nd choice
Evans - 2nd choice
Hamilton - 1st/2nd
Kitto - 3rd choice
Williams - 2nd choice
Catchpole - 6th choice
Smith - 3rd choice
Roberts - 3rd choice
Brady - 5th choice
Tait - 2nd choice
McGuigan - 3rd choice
Brugnara - 4th choice
Betts - 6th choice
Mykmsiw - 7th choice
Owen - 5th choice
White - 4th choice
Worth - 3rd choice 15/10

Also saints friends telling me Estelle would get into there match day squad currently.
Thacker - around 5th choice.

How do you pronounce that!!!

It's Joe Maksymiw, although you routinely see many different spellings! And we try not to ask 

Every time I see that name I think about a very loud cat

[formerly known as Sam]

Young Joe needs a nickname. I'm sure Geordie has given him one and will let slip in an interview sooner or later.

[LondonTiger]

Maxim

[Geordie]

Young Joe needs a nickname. I'm sure Geordie has given him one and will let slip in an interview sooner or later.

I haven't actually....but I will.

[king_carlos]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivanslXExfc

A wee video from Premiership Rugby for the deserved MOM award for Jack Roberts.

He has always been good ball in hand since he joined but his handling, positional play and defence have really come on this season I've thought.

A player I hope we keep going forward.

[formerly known as Sam]

Liked the highlights I saw from Harry Wells. Seemed to be everywhere and nice offload to Roberts in the first half.

[king_carlos]

Club twitter have posted a couple of pictures of Mermoz at Oval Park today. Good to hear that he's arrived.

I could see him coming onto the bench for Sunday then starting against Gloucs. The 6 day turnaround between the next two games might affect selection for this weekend.

As a side note it's nice to see that the Gloucs and Bristol consecutive home games are both on Saturdays, 3pm KO.

[formerly known as Sam]

Leicester Tigers (v Saracens, away, Sunday 4.00pm)
15 George Worth
14 Peter Betham
13 Charlie Thacker
12 Oli Bryant
11 George Catchpole
10 Freddie Burns 
9 Sam Harrison
1 Michele Rizzo
2 George McGuigan
3 Pat Cilliers
4 Harry Wells 
5 Dom Barrow
6 Tom Croft
7 Harry Thacker 
8 Luke Hamilton

Replacements
16 Brendon O'Connor
17 Riccardo Brugnara
18 Ben Betts 
19 Joe Maksymiw
20 Mike Williams
21 Ben White
22 Maxime Mermoz
23 Tom Brady

Good mix of experience and youth for us this weekend. Like it. There's plenty to bring off the bench if we need it and a lot of players getting much needed game time. Eyes will be on a rare appearance from Bryant, he's probably playing for his future at the club. Thacker at 7 will be interesting.

[LondonTiger]

Initially I had missed Harry at 7, then saw BOC was wearing 16 and had to check back.

[LondonTiger]

Saracens team to face Leicester Tigers

15 Matt Gallagher (6)
14 Mike Ellery (34)
13 Tim Streather (c) (28)
12 Nick Tompkins (52)
11 Nathan Earle (13)
10 Tom Whiteley (3)
9 Henry Taylor (3)
1 Richard Barrington (102)
2 Jared Saunders (41)
3 Petrus Du Plessis (147)
4 Mark Flanagan (5)
5 Brian Tuilagi (0)
6 Joel Conlon (6)
7 Will Fraser (80)
8 Samu Vunisa (10)

Replacements
16 Scott Spurling (21)
17 Titi Lamositele (32)
18 Billy Walker (3)
19 Kelly Brown (145)
20 Seb Nagle-Taylor (Ealing Trailfinders)
21 Neil De Kock (259)
22 Duncan Taylor (94)
23 Rotimi Segun (1)

Looks stronger than our lineup. Brian T at 5 will be interesting though.

[Welly]

Nah the teams are very even.

[formerly known as Sam]

Initially I had missed Harry at 7, then saw BOC was wearing 16 and had to check back.

Very much likes the Wasps tactic with Ashley Johnson isn't it. Thacker hopefully playing more in this role next season with a conversion to openside on the cards. He can still throw in giving us an extra lifter and potentially a more powerful rolling maul. I wonder who'll throw in vs Sarries?

[king_carlos]

Happy to see Harry at 7. If nothing else it will give us a better idea of how much the strain of scrummaging is wearing him down for his loose play. Up against Fraser he has a good challenge to rise to.

The front rows are well matched and should be interesting to watch.

Harry Wells was strong in the line-out last week and along with Croft should be targeting the Sarries throw. Not often you can say that but Sarries aren't loaded with jumpers there.

Shazam and Freddie should make a difference from half back against the Sarries youngsters.

Well matched sides, should be interesting!

[formerly known as Sam]

Be interesting to see how the midfield goes with us having much more experience at 9 & 10 and Sarries having more experience at 12 & 13. Tompkins and Streather are good finishers so Bryant and Thacker will have to be on their toes in defence.

Wells played really well last weekend (from the highlights I saw) if he has another good game he'll be laying down a good marker with none of our first teamers really setting the world alight and Barrow alongside him in a settled pairing. He can't be as bad as Fitzgerald has been.

[king_carlos]

I've felt for Fitzgerald this season. With Barrow and Mike Williams injured he seemed to get asked to take on much of the hard work that both excel at. Fitz is best as a support runner or coming off 9 from second phase when the ball is a bit quicker. He isn't as good as Barrow or Williams at getting over the gain line from slow ball and trying to do so showed.

He just looks a burnt out to me. The guy is still an excellent lock and useful cover at 6, but we should look to use him less on the flank IMO. I'd give him another week or two to rest. Maybe get him back on the bench for Bristol.

With Barrow back, Wells impressing, Slater and Kitch having had a fortnight of the boiler room is well covered. I hope we see more rotation of those second rows to keep them fresh now they're fit. When our lock pairing plays well the team usually does too.

[formerly known as Sam]

Fitzgerald at 6 has been a disaster over the last couple of years. Same when we've shoved Slater there. Just not enough mobility around the park, we are then effective in the tight but get mugged in the loose. Our pack isn't powerful enough to just destroy top opposition in the tight and get away with being a bit slow.

Personally I'd release Fitzgerald (end of his second year, normally playès sign for two years) and promote Wells who's probably only on 60% of what Fitzgerald is on. Plough the money back into the pack in areas of need as opposed to lock where we have options and where Fitzgerald is the eldest and not EQ (as far as I remember).

[king_carlos]

We made a European and Prem semi last season with Fitz playing much of it at 6. He also won players player of the season, playing much of the season at 6. He's a better lock I think but he hasn't been a disaster when filling in at 6 due to injury demands.

He's available for the full season, more durable than most our players and has good years ahead of him (he turned 30 yesterday) as a tight 5 forward.

The pack has many issues but a second row that had an excellent first season for the club but is looking worn out in his second isn't one of them.

[formerly known as Sam]

Not so much him. More the tactic of three locks is not working. It doesn't work with Slater either. The last time we made the double final we played with three opensides in the backrow (Moody, Woods, Newby), I'd rather we went back to that. Mobility and aggression. We got out played in both semi finals last season.

[Welly]

Bryant isn't up to it IMO.

[Guest]

25 minutes in and already 3 tries to nil down.

Yet I feel nothing at all, it's just so standard to be in this position now that it doesn't elicit any emotion from me. I know it's only an LV cup game but 3 years ago I'd have been desperately drowning my sorrows after the second try.

Edit: Really enjoyable second half though, even if the comeback ultimately falls short.

[nathan]

Yeah i thought they improved in the second half, they played alot like Tigers of old.

Thought McGuigan had a stormer.

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