Leicester Tigers 2016/17 thread.

[Welly]

First topic message reminder :

2016/17:
Director of Rugby: Richard Cockerill
Head Coach: Aaron Mauger
Assistant Backs Coach: Geordan Murphy
Assistant Forward Coach: Richard Blaze
Defence and Scrum Half Coach: Scott Hansen
Head of Rugby Operations: Ged Glynn
Team manager: Matt Cornwall

2016/17 Senior Squad: (Confirmed So Far) (Blue = EQP)
Hookers: Bateman, McGuigan, Thacker, Youngs
Props: Ayerza, Balmain, Brugnara Cilliers, Cole, Genge, Mulipola, Rizzo
Locks: Barrow, Fitzgerald, Kitchener, Slater
Back Row: Croft, Fonua, Hamilton McCaffrey, O'Connor, Williams
Scrum Half: Harrison, Kitto, Youngs
Fly Half: Burns, Williams
Centre: Catchpole, Roberts, Smith, Toomua, Tuilagi
Back 3: Betham, Brady, Pieterson, Tait, Thompstone, Veainu
Squad number: 37, EQP: 24, Academy products: 8

Transfers
IN: (7)
McGuigan (Newcastle Falcons), Cilliers (Montpelier), Genge (Bristol), Hamilton (Agen), Toomua (ACT Brumbies). JP Pieterson (Sharks), Brady (Sale)

OUT: (12)
Ghiraldini (Toulouse), Pasquali (Treviso), De Chaves (London Irish), Crane (Bristol), Pearce (Sale), Bell (London Irish), Baikeinuku (retirement), De Villiers (Retirement), Benjamin (retirement), Morris (N/A), Camacho (N/A), Goneva (Newcastle Falcons)

Not Sure: (No official confirmation of leaving or Staying) 3
Aguero, Sio Loamanu,

Rumours:
Harry Wells (Bedford) Lock/6

2016/17 Development Squad: (15)
Bryant, Evans, Hills, Lewis, Mahoney, Maksymiw, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Owen, Simmons, Thacker, Tuilagi, White, Worth, Yawayawa

Transfer
IN: (7)
Lewis, Mahoney, J.Olowofela, R. Olowofela, Simmons, White, Yawayawa

OUT: 11
Odogwu (sale), Beckett (Glous), Povoas (Coventry), Tresidder (Rotherham Titans), Douglas, Farnworth, Galletly, Hogan, Murrin, Nairn, Priestley-Nangle.


Academy
Academy Head Coach/forwards Coach: Brett Deacon
Academy Backs Coach: Anthony Allen

[Exiledinborders]

Well done Tigers. You up against it with that ref. Well played.

[Heaf]

What a kick to win it ...

[eirebilly]

Well done to the Leicester team and their fans. That was some game and took some kick to win it

[formerly known as Sam]

Great kick to win a hard fought game. 

Wish I'd been able to make it to the ground. The Munster fans were in great voice and Welford Road responding was a magnificent atmosphere. 

Will it secure Cockers his job? Not sure.

[Guest]

Well played, Leicester

Interesting game, not least the last quarter. The ref made some poor calls, particularly the Zebo yellow card, but he made bad calls for both sides.

[doctor_grey]

Yes, real good job. Only saw the last 20 minutes and I thought Leicester lost it at the end. Good resilience. One of thoise 'character' games. And Tigers showed character.

Now let's see how my lot get on.

[formerly known as Sam]

From a Tigers point of view it was an improvement. Dropping the three locks policy and introducing Hamilton worked very well. It brought BOC and McCaffery into the game more as they rotated around the defence rather than Fitzgerald staying central and the other two wide. A great deal more work rate around the park.

Roberts added a good foil for Manu, who faded showing he's clearly not fully fit yet, with Owen Williams moving the ball around quite well.

Now if we can just get some more depth and well timed runs in attack.

[TJ]

Done Glasgow a favour there as well. Ta chaps

[Welly]

Done Glasgow a favour there as well.  Ta chaps

Hopefully you will return the favor when you come to Welford road...

[formerly known as Sam]

Done Glasgow a favour there as well.  Ta chaps

Hopefully you will return the favor when you come to Welford road...

If we steadily improve in every game between now and then we might beat Glasgow. Today was a step in the right direction but Munster are not nearly as explosive in attack as Glasgow.

What I couldn't understand about Munster today is why they kept the ball in hand so much and kicked for territory. Last week every kick was there to compete for. Didn't see that so much today on the smaller pitch. Today Tigers made twice as many turnovers as Munster. That's where the game was decided.

[TJ]

Glasgow can beat Munster for you? will that do?

[Artful_Dodger]

Surprised at the result, congrats on the victory folks.

[formerly known as Sam]

Surprised at the result, congrats on the victory folks.

Before today we'd lost 1 of our last 33 games at Welford Road in Europe. We rarely lose at home, away from home. Sadly that's a very different story at the minute.

I've even heard am outrageous conspiracy theory that the players want rid of Cockers and so aren't giving 100% in the game away from home but don't want to upset the fans so are playing to their capabilities at WR. Obviously not true but about the only way to explain the disparity in performance levels.

[George Carlin]

Wonderful result for the Tigers. Delighted to see the Munster momentum stopped.

[offload]

It was a good game of rugby. Surprised Leicester turned things around, reminded me a little of past Leicester teams. I'm not usually one to mention refereeing, but that was one of the worst pieces of officiating I've seen for a while. Hard for either team to know what he was thinking.

[formerly known as Sam]

It was a good game of rugby. Surprised Leicester turned things around, reminded me a little of past Leicester teams.  I'm not usually one to mention refereeing, but that was one of the worst pieces of officiating I've seen for a while. Hard for either team to know what he was thinking.

What annoyed me most was that it was a great game of rugby and the ref was doing his best to make a mess of it. Hosting Munster was a game the Tigers supporters were looking forward to. Having a ref who made extremely odd and generally poor decisions for most of the game did not help.

Hopefully Cockers will have learned from this week and we'll see that same backrow next weekend against Exeter next weekend with Mike Williams as the second row replacement and some fit backs. Manu faded dramatically in the second half due to a lack of fitness.

[eirebilly]

What do you do with Tom Youngs? I thought he had a poor game and was overly mouthy.

[formerly known as Sam]

What do you do with Tom Youngs? I thought he had a poor game and was overly mouthy.

He was the captain and the ref started the game by handing us some dodgy decisions. He's generally far to quiet so I was happy to see him back to squaring up to the opposition and getting into the refs ear. He clearly tired in the second half and needed to be subbed before the 70 minute mark when he got sin binned. With Thacker on the bench we should have brought him on at the 60 minute mark as that would have offered more range on the lineout and another breakdown menace.

Hooker is a slight issue. Youngs has had bad luck with neck and back issues previously, he should be in his prime at 29 but is drifting away from his best form which we haven't seen in a couple of seasons. Thacker and McGuigan are both young, particularly in hooker terms. Thacker is probably the most dynamic hooker in Europe but he's still working hard on his scrum technique. McGuigan doesn't impose himself on games despite being a good physical specimen, he drifts in and out of the action. Bateman looks like a prop and plays like one, his lineout work is sub par (hence why he's been turned into a TH).

[eirebilly]

I don't mind captains talking to the ref, in fact I encourage it and the ref was having an absurd game. I just feel he was being a bit too aggressive towards the ref and the ref certainly didn't like it which is why he was under the ref's eye constantly.

[LondonTiger]

The way OTY was talking to the ref and the effect it was having on Gauzere was obvious from the stands. He looked like a petulant child and it totally rubbed the frenchman up the wrong way, causing us issues.

Most vibrant crowd at WR for a few years, and the Munster faithful desire huge plaudits for their signing.

[Welly]

Slater would be my captain next weekend and would start Thacker.

[nathan]

What do you do with Tom Youngs? I thought he had a poor game and was overly mouthy.

Just watching the game and I can see why he's pissed off. So far he's been pinged incorrectly twice. This ref is woeful

Also not liking how the munster players stay down rolling around when something off the ball happens. It needs to stop.

[formerly known as Sam]

Slater would be my captain next weekend and would start Thacker.

Slater would always be my captain given the current squad. He did it very well before, keep his head in a game and speaks well to the referees.

Tom has always been a firey player and he was understandably frustrated during the game. The referee seemed to have some preconceptions about the game before it started, particularly our maul defence. When it gets to the point where the referee is giving all the 50/50s the other way you might as well gamble and try to influence him and get him to change his attitude because talking to him wasn't working.

[Welly]

Leicester Tigers Development XV
15 Harry Simmons
14 Ryan Olowofela
13 Charlie Thacker
12 Oli Bryant
11 Sam Yawayawa
10 Tom Hardwick
9 Ben White
1 Riccardo Brugnara
2 Harry Thacker (c)
3 Ben Betts
4 Harry Wells
5 Sam Lewis
6 Will Owen
7 Will Evans
8 Fred Tuilagi

Replacements
16 Harry Mahoney
17 Oscar Harper
18 Joe Heyes
19 Sam Grahamslaw
20 Tommy Reffell
21 Jordan Olowofela
22 Matt Cornwell
23 Josh Fenner

[king_carlos]

Interesting to see Matt Cornwell back! Team manager coming out of retirement, injuries are bad.

WANDERERS TEAM TO PLAY LEICESTER
15 George Furbank
14 Howard Packman
13 Nafi Tuitavake
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Juan Pablo Estelles
10 Sam Olver
9 Alex Mitchell
1 Matt Beesley
2 James Fish
3 Jake Ilnicki
4 Alex Moon
5 Jordan Onojaife
6 Ben Nutley (capt)
7 Lewis Ludlam
8 Devante Onojaife

16 Alex Rayment
17 Harry Morley
18 Ehren Painter
19 Josh Peters
20 Sion Bennett
21 Tom Emery
22 James Grayson
23 Fraser Strachan

Nutley, Tuitavake and Juan Pablo Estelles have bags of experience compared to all others on show.

Tigers will need Thacker and Evans to stand up as first XV players (they usually do in the A-team). Also a good chance for Bryant, Owen, Wells and Brugnara to show their extra couple of years development against the rest of the squad.

[formerly known as Sam]

A lot of young talent on the field for us. We're 12-6 down after 20 minutes with Saints Argentinian winger grabbing two tries.

[king_carlos]

Saints 15 - 11 Tigers

That's the latest on Tigers twitter.

Harry Thacker subbed at half time, which surely confirms him for the 23 against Chiefs. Ben White then made captain - an interesting move.

Will Evans subbed after 50 minutes, again should confirm him for the Chiefs 23.

[king_carlos]

Wanderers 20 - Tigers Development 11

Outscored 3 tries to 1. Given how inexperienced a side it was that's a respectable enough scoreline though.

[formerly known as Sam]

Considering that we removed our two first team players early doors it's not too bad. By the sounds of it we conceded the last try when down to 14.

[king_carlos]

Burns and Coley are expected to be fit for the weekend according to Cockers in the Merc.

Mike Williams came through his return with no adverse side effects. If he were to start it would be a great showdown between him and Ewers at blindside. They could potentially be fighting for an EPS place come February.

Marcos is still out with his calf strain. Cockers has mentioned Rizzo and Baltrain for the first time in a while, although only to confirm they are still injured.

Genge, Youngs, Cilliers, Slater, Kitchener, Hamilton, O'Connor, McCaffery
Youngs, Williams, Thompstone, Manu, Roberts, Betham, Worth

Reps: Thacker, Mulipola, Bateman/Cole, Fitzgerald, Williams, Evans, Harrison, Burns

Best guess is we will see something like that travelling down to Sandy Park. I'd gladly see Thacker start with OTY on the bench and Slater as skipper though. Especially for the extra options Thacker gives at the line-out.

[LondonTiger]

Though ickle Harry has been strangely fallible with his throwing this season, quite a few not straights.

[Geordie]

Move Harry to Flanker

[formerly known as Sam]

Wee Harry is far more adventurous at the lineout though. He'll go for throws to the tail and past the tail of the lineout our other hookers wouldn't. I'd have no problem with him at 7 either, if BOC goes then rotating Thacker and Evans would be fine in my view. As long as we could get a horrible number 8 in.

[formerly known as Sam]

Genge, Youngs, Cole
Slater, Fitzgerald 
Williams, McCaffery, O'Connor 
Youngs, Williams
Manu, Roberts 
Thompstone, Burns, Betham 

Bench; McGuigan, Ayerza, Cilliers, Kitchener, Evans, Harrison, Worth, Brady. 

Why is Fitzgerald still starting ahead of Kitchener? Lightens the pack in the scrum and weakens the lineout. Not a good sign, I expect to concede a maul try inside the first half.

Also, where the hell is Thacker? Every game he plays he makes an impact. He's not perfect but when so much of our team is struggling for peak form why not select the one reliably explosive forward we have?

[eirebilly]

I said many years ago that I would use Tom Youngs as an impact sub. I even suggested that he could come into the centres as he was (still is?) quick enough, his bulk in the midfield would certainly punish defences in the final 20mins of games. Never really rated him as a hooker myself and think the tigers have better options.

[formerly known as Sam]

I said many years ago that I would use Tom Youngs as an impact sub. I even suggested that he could come into the centres as he was (still is?) quick enough, his bulk in the midfield would certainly punish defences in the final 20mins of games. Never really rated him as a hooker myself and think the tigers have better options.

Been a few years since he was that mobile. If anything he could do with becoming a touch lighter and more mobile. He certainly needed to convert to hooker as he was never going to make it at 12, he never had the skill set but he used to have the aggression and physicality. Two attributes that seem to have left him after he became captain. 

As for our other options, Thacker is explosive and around the park a nightmare to the opposition in attack and defence. He isn't the biggest so you are unlikely to see our scrum dominate if he's on, he is quite good at hooking the ball though so we don't tend to lose many and occasionally nick one against the head. His lineout throwing can be spectacular and a real weapon given he has great range. Opposition have worked out that by closing the line (most refs just don't ping it) and jumping at the front early they can get into his eye line and put him off.

McGuigan has been a disappointment. Just solid in all departments he's done nothing to stamp his authority on any particular game or his claim for a starting berth despite being given several opportunities. He needs to improve his aggression, carrying his lineout range and up his work rate.

[formerly known as Sam]

Saracens team to face Leicester Tigers

15 Alex Goode
14. Chris Ashton
13. Marcelo Bosch
12. Brad Barritt ©
11. Sean Maitland
10. Owen Farrell
9. Ben Spencer

1. Richard Barrington
2. Jamie George
3. Juan Figallo
4. Will Skelton
5. Maro Itoje
6. Michael Rhodes
7. Schalk Burger
8. Jackson Wray

16. Schalk Brits
17. Titi Lamositele
18. Petrus Du Plessis
19. Jim Hamilton
20. Kelly Brown
21. Neil De Kock
22. Alex Lozowski
23. Nathan Earle

We're going to get cheesed, it's like getting creamed but it goes on for longer. The only hope I have is that we're at home and we play with some conviction when at WR. It would be nice if we could avoid more humiliation.

[Welly]

Hooker is a interesting area.

I do wonder if Youngs might be looking to retire after this contract to focus on the farm full time, whilst he still has another 3/4 years easy too many injuries during that time and he might struggle with the farming.

Could see him doing a julien after this contract maybe part time rugby player helping out in the AWC and if during a injury crisis but full time farming.

Thacker is prob considered too small for the big games, and can see him going.

McGuigan is viewed as the future.

I would like to see us go after a big 2 (if cap about for it) if we can give Genge a big hooker and Cole to scrum with that could be a huge boost in his development would also help Cole with the scrum.

[formerly known as Sam]

If we can get hold of a powerful, experienced hooker that would be great. Can't see us getting a good one with the cap situation though. Personally I'd prefer to see us go with Thacker. Our scrum hasn't been this season irrelevant of the combination. Unless we get a new scrum coach I think Cockers needs to swallow his ego, make sure we don't concede pens and then take advantage of the bonuses we get in other areas.

McGuigan might be the future but he's not good enough to be the present incumbent. I too can see Youngs retiring in a couple of years time. He's had back and neck issues and he won't want to push his luck with the farming as you say.

[doctor_grey]

How would you describe the style Tigers are trying to play? I really don't see a definable style they are looking to play. Seems a little forward push, a couple of shots outside, then kick away.

As a Saints fan, I know how the team is looking to play - we might not be doing it terribly well, but at least there seems a plan of sorts.

[Welly]

How would you describe the style Tigers are trying to play?  I really don't see a definable style they are looking to play.  Seems a little forward push, a couple of shots outside, then kick away.  

As a Saints fan, I know how the team is looking to play - we might not be doing it terribly well, but at least there seems a plan of sorts.

Interesting as I think most would say the same about saints.

[formerly known as Sam]

How would you describe the style Tigers are trying to play?  I really don't see a definable style they are looking to play.  Seems a little forward push, a couple of shots outside, then kick away.  

As a Saints fan, I know how the team is looking to play - we might not be doing it terribly well, but at least there seems a plan of sorts.

I think there is conflicting strategies preferred by the DOR and head coach. It is removing any bite from our attacking play with disjointed forward and backs combinations. Our defence is still fairly shambolic as well. Our team is playing less than the sum of its parts.

[king_carlos]

Saracens team to face Leicester Tigers

15 Alex Goode
14. Chris Ashton
13. Marcelo Bosch
12. Brad Barritt ©
11. Sean Maitland
10. Owen Farrell
9. Ben Spencer

1. Richard Barrington
2. Jamie George
3. Juan Figallo
4. Will Skelton
5. Maro Itoje
6. Michael Rhodes
7. Schalk Burger
8. Jackson Wray

16. Schalk Brits
17. Titi Lamositele
18. Petrus Du Plessis
19. Jim Hamilton
20. Kelly Brown
21. Neil De Kock
22. Alex Lozowski
23. Nathan Earle

We're going to get cheesed, it's like getting creamed but it goes on for longer. The only hope I have is that we're at home and we play with some conviction when at WR. It would be nice if we could avoid more humiliation.

Will be interesting to see Itoje call the line-out with those team mates. Skelton isn't a jumper, Rhodes is solid but nothing more and same for Wray. If Kitchener starts then it will be a good test for Itoje with limited options around him.

It probably sums up my hopes for the match from a Tigers perspective that I can only say that of much interest though!

[formerly known as Sam]

Saracens team to face Leicester Tigers

15 Alex Goode
14. Chris Ashton
13. Marcelo Bosch
12. Brad Barritt ©
11. Sean Maitland
10. Owen Farrell
9. Ben Spencer

1. Richard Barrington
2. Jamie George
3. Juan Figallo
4. Will Skelton
5. Maro Itoje
6. Michael Rhodes
7. Schalk Burger
8. Jackson Wray

16. Schalk Brits
17. Titi Lamositele
18. Petrus Du Plessis
19. Jim Hamilton
20. Kelly Brown
21. Neil De Kock
22. Alex Lozowski
23. Nathan Earle

We're going to get cheesed, it's like getting creamed but it goes on for longer. The only hope I have is that we're at home and we play with some conviction when at WR. It would be nice if we could avoid more humiliation.

Will be interesting to see Itoje call the line-out with those team mates. Skelton isn't a jumper, Rhodes is solid but nothing more and same for Wray. If Kitchener starts then it will be a good test for Itoje with limited options around him.

It probably sums up my hopes for the match from a Tigers perspective that I can only say that of much interest though!

Itoje is safe. Fitzgerald is clueless.

[LondonTiger]

And Cockers gone.

[eirebilly]

Just a quick question to you Tigers fans. Now that Cockers has gone, what do you think will happen to Tuilagi?
He is having/had a horrible run of injuries so can the Tigers continue to afford his wages against the amount of time he is off injured?

I know that he is an excellent player when fit and on form but he is really so injury prone that it almost becomes too expensive to keep him on the books.

[Welly]

Tuilagi has the world class potential i can't see any coach wanting to be the one to cut him and have him get fit for someone else and reach that potential.

I suspect it depends on how long this injury is IF out for season i suspect Tigers will ask for a pay cut to fund maybe another centre for cover.

[eirebilly]

He doesn't have the potential, he is one when fully fit. My concern is that he is far too often injured and out for long terms. You can be the best player in the world but if you are only turning out for a few games a season then surely questions have to be asked if he is worth the investment.

Can you see other coaches wanting to sign him, pay him large money to see him on the injury bench so often?

[Welly]

It depends on how much he wants i guess he may well take a pay cut which imo if the case 100% keep him But if he is wanting the 350K+ then i can see some looking elsewhere.

[doctor_grey]

He doesn't have the potential, he is one when fully fit. My concern is that he is far too often injured and out for long terms. You can be the best player in the world but if you are only turning out for a few games a season then surely questions have to be asked if he is worth the investment.

Can you see other coaches wanting to sign him, pay him large money to see him on the injury bench so often?

I still don't know the extent of his injury, so let's hope not too bad. But I do worry whether he has received the best medical care. I have seen repeat injuries like this and it usually points back to improper rehabilitation and overall care.

Without getting myself in too deep, let's simply use Jonny Wilkinson as the most obvious and extreme example. After years of repeat injuries and poor care, he took the year and went to the specialised sports rehab group in Vermont. He did his time away from distractions and pressure, working with top level professionals, and was able to end his career healthy and solid. The great pity was he didn't do it sooner. And how much more could he have done instead of spending years pissing in the wind. For Tuilagi, I think he needs to get away from Rugby and work with different people.

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